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Post by imnx2 on May 23, 2011 7:55:04 GMT -5
If God's people are a peculiar people it may well be that they have chosen to dress in a peculiar fashion which distinguishes them from others. God's people? God's people being a peculiar people has little to do with dress. People wanting to portray themselves as God's people do like to dress in a peculiar way. Hair in buns and dresses has long been the mark of religion for certain fellowships. I think both hair and dress/skirt are taken to extreme. Likely they are followed in error.
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Post by emy on May 23, 2011 9:34:19 GMT -5
... A couple of years ago , a teen-age girl accompanied a professing family to preps. She wisely chose to wear jeans and a T-shirt to help clean-up the convention grounds. She was quickly escorted to a small area to wash dishes and utensils by herself. The other teen-age girls (dressed in blouses and skirts and bun hairstyles) worked together with the sister workers. Somehow, by the end of the day, this young non-professing girl chose not to attend convention and figure out how to modernize the apparel of the sister workers. The friends and workers, too, didn't choose to copy this young girl's attitude, where one helps one's friends regardless of how they dress. About 33-4 decades ago, this non-professing girl would have been welcomed with open arms and treated as if her dressage of the day was acceptable, though she could look all around and see it wasn't.....the workers would have kept her with one of them perhaps to ascertain her interest in perhaps coming to mtgs. She would have thought that the workers were the best people in the world....THAT has changed in the fellowship....the reaching out to the unprofessing that willingly come to a fellowship gathering! About 33-4 decades ago That's a very strange story about the young girl who was secluded because she wasn't dressed "properly." It's not something I can imagine happening. And where were her "friends"? Being left alone at a task at preps just doesn't sound normal! I agree with Sharon's perception of how it would have happened -- and even more so today than in former years, imo.
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Post by imnx2 on May 23, 2011 9:52:52 GMT -5
All kinds of experiences and people out there. I recall being assistant cook to the head cook at a convention. The head cook had a bit of a reputation of hard to getalong. The menu was chili and other things. The recipe for the chili called for a certain amount off chili pepper. The headcook said something along the line of "Well, we don't want to upset any tummies, but we're making chili, not bean stew." We looked everywhere we could for more chili pepper. I enjoyed my experience with the tough cook(ie).
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Post by quizzer on May 23, 2011 10:00:42 GMT -5
With sharonw's and emy's post, I wonder if the unwritten dress code is just another indicator of how the friends and workers are practicing seclusion as well as exclusivity...where we do NOT reach out to outsiders...
...it could just be that different overseers have different attitudes toward outreach...
Observations, thoughts, anyone?
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Post by imnx2 on May 23, 2011 10:03:32 GMT -5
With sharonw's and emy's post, I wonder if the unwritten dress code is just another indicator of how the friends and workers are practicing seclusion as well as exclusivity...where we do NOT reach out to outsiders... ...it could just be that different overseers have different attitudes toward outreach... Observations, thoughts, anyone? Yup, different views and attitudes on many things. Just keep the peace.
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Post by CherieKropp on May 23, 2011 10:13:56 GMT -5
partaker wrote: Have you researched the word "peculiar" - to find out what it meant when it was translated for the KJV in 1611? ? Todays definition of the word "peculiar" wasn't the same definition the translators of the KJV had in mind when they used it for the Greek word "peripoiesis." A Peculiar People - 1 Peter 2:9 By: Dr. Dan Hayden Have you ever known any peculiar people? I could tell you many stories of people I have known who were just plain odd. Like the man who said to the psychologist, “People think I’m weird because I like potato pancakes.” To which the psychologist responded, “That’s not weird, I also like potato pancakes.” At that point, the man became excited and said, “That’s wonderful, Doc. Listen, why don’t you come over to my house — I have closets and closets full!” When the King James translators used the word “peculiar” in 1 Peter 2:9, identifying Christians as a “peculiar people”, this is not what they had in mind. According to A. T. Robertson, the word “peculiar” comes from the Latin word, “pecus” which means “flock”. The KJV translators were simply reflecting the idea that believers in Christ are the unique possession of God — they are His flock. Actually the word in 1 Peter 2:9 is the Greek word peripoiesis, which has the idea of possession, or personal property. It is the preposition peri, which means “around” — connected to the noun poiesis, which refers to something that is made, or done. Kenneth Wuest, the Greek scholar, says “the Greek word means literally ‘to make around,’ that is, to make something and then to surround it with a circle, thus indicating ownership.” Thus, the New American Standard version translates this phrase as “a people for God’s own possession.” The NIV says, “a people belonging to God” and the NKJV says “His own special people.” The verb form of this word (peripoiéomai) is found in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) to translate the words of God through the prophet Isaiah, when He said, “This people have I formed for myself” (Isa. 43:21) — [emphasis mine]. It is a strong statement of personal possession — the people belong to God. They are His. So this word peripoiesis is certainly a special word to describe how unique we, as believers in Jesus Christ, are as the personal possession of God. He made us a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17) and then He put a circle around us to indicate His ownership, and said in effect “these people belong to Me.” We are indeed a “people for God’s own possession” (1 Peter 2:9 - NAS). Christian friend, I hope that you are encouraged to know that you really are “peculiar”. You belong to a special group of people who are the unique possession of God. You are a member of His eternal family. And that means, of course, that you are the special object of His love and care. It also means however, that we are to live consistent with who we are. We’re not like other people in the world. We’re more than different — we’re unique. And so, we live unique lives to the glory of God who has given to us His Holy Spirit “as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession (peripoiesis), to the promise of His glory” (Ephesians 1:14). ■ Source: www.awordfromtheword.org/a-peculiar-people.htm
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Post by quizzer on May 23, 2011 11:12:09 GMT -5
Cherie, Thanks for the definition and research. I've recently been reading about the Amish, from a book written in their own words and thoughts. (It's a compliation of Amish articles from one of their magazines.)
The Amish do view themselves as a peculiar people before God. However, they stress the same definition as you have. They do not do things because they are "odd" or "different." They seek to look at all things, seeing whether they can be used for good or evil. Granted, most of their clothing hasn't changed, but they are willing to discuss whether new materials should be used, or if styles should be changed, so that they (as a people) can serve God better.
It is an eye-opening book about embracing God and the modern world, and making conscious choices for oneself and discussing matters with one's community. It wasn't about holding on to the past, so much as navigating for a future to serve God.
Thanks for the insight, quizzer
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 13:58:30 GMT -5
partaker wrote: Have you researched the word "peculiar" - to find out what it meant when it was translated for the KJV in 1611? ? Todays definition of the word "peculiar" wasn't the same definition the translators of the KJV had in mind when they used it for the Greek word "peripoiesis." A Peculiar People - 1 Peter 2:9 By: Dr. Dan Hayden Have you ever known any peculiar people? I could tell you many stories of people I have known who were just plain odd. Like the man who said to the psychologist, “People think I’m weird because I like potato pancakes.” To which the psychologist responded, “That’s not weird, I also like potato pancakes.” At that point, the man became excited and said, “That’s wonderful, Doc. Listen, why don’t you come over to my house — I have closets and closets full!” When the King James translators used the word “peculiar” in 1 Peter 2:9, identifying Christians as a “peculiar people”, this is not what they had in mind. According to A. T. Robertson, the word “peculiar” comes from the Latin word, “pecus” which means “flock”. The KJV translators were simply reflecting the idea that believers in Christ are the unique possession of God — they are His flock. Actually the word in 1 Peter 2:9 is the Greek word peripoiesis, which has the idea of possession, or personal property. It is the preposition peri, which means “around” — connected to the noun poiesis, which refers to something that is made, or done. Kenneth Wuest, the Greek scholar, says “the Greek word means literally ‘to make around,’ that is, to make something and then to surround it with a circle, thus indicating ownership.” Thus, the New American Standard version translates this phrase as “a people for God’s own possession.” The NIV says, “a people belonging to God” and the NKJV says “His own special people.” The verb form of this word (peripoiéomai) is found in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) to translate the words of God through the prophet Isaiah, when He said, “This people have I formed for myself” (Isa. 43:21) — [emphasis mine]. It is a strong statement of personal possession — the people belong to God. They are His. So this word peripoiesis is certainly a special word to describe how unique we, as believers in Jesus Christ, are as the personal possession of God. He made us a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17) and then He put a circle around us to indicate His ownership, and said in effect “these people belong to Me.” We are indeed a “people for God’s own possession” (1 Peter 2:9 - NAS). Christian friend, I hope that you are encouraged to know that you really are “peculiar”. You belong to a special group of people who are the unique possession of God. You are a member of His eternal family. And that means, of course, that you are the special object of His love and care. It also means however, that we are to live consistent with who we are. We’re not like other people in the world. We’re more than different — we’re unique. And so, we live unique lives to the glory of God who has given to us His Holy Spirit “as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession (peripoiesis), to the promise of His glory” (Ephesians 1:14). ■ Source: www.awordfromtheword.org/a-peculiar-people.htmThanks for the enlightenment cheriekropp. My posting was meant to be flippant and provocative; but it has extracted a response from you which is useful and enlightening. So it goes to show that this forum can and does serve a useful purpose.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 14:14:53 GMT -5
All kinds of experiences and people out there. I recall being assistant cook to the head cook at a convention. The head cook had a bit of a reputation of hard to getalong. The menu was chili and other things. The recipe for the chili called for a certain amount off chili pepper. The headcook said something along the line of "Well, we don't want to upset any tummies, but we're making chili, not bean stew." We looked everywhere we could for more chili pepper. I enjoyed my experience with the tough cook(ie). How does all this relate to Two by Two women?
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Post by apple on May 23, 2011 14:28:48 GMT -5
These are Jewish rules but we are freed from the Jewish rules under Jesus.There are basic guidelines for the Christians too but they are not as detailed so it's entirely up to you to decide on minor details such as the length of sleeves. Huh? Earlier you said that the verses you posted answered our questions about biblical modesty: Those bible verses do answer the question of biblical modesty.. Are you saying that the bible does or doesn't have definitive answers to the questions about biblical modesty? You wanted to know if the bible makes any mention of dress rules such as required sleeve lengths.I showed you the references I am aware of but explained that under Jesus we are free from OT law therefore do not have to observe such rigid rules but however we still have to dress with modesty.
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Post by imnx2 on May 23, 2011 14:34:09 GMT -5
How does all this relate to Two by Two women? Just a tangent from the convention experience previously indicated.
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Post by apple on May 23, 2011 14:34:43 GMT -5
I don't like this idea that those who wear only long skirts and have long hair are the oddbods.To me the person in tiny hot pants, the short hair, the fake hair extensions and fake tan is the stange one.It's all about perspective- in some hot climates the locals were very little clothes, sometimes no clothes at all and to such folks we would be odd to them because we wear clothes at all.Compared to one group we might be very conservative but to another we may appear very liberal.
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Post by quizzer on May 23, 2011 15:55:40 GMT -5
The other day I listened to the story of a Christian musician. This man had long hair, long beard, and numerous tattoes. He talked about being a drug-addicted hard rocker who had wandered into a Christian church one day. This had been the first time in a long time that he had attended church. He stayed through the sermon.
When he left, he was filled with respect for Christianity. He wanted the peace and joy in his own heart that he had seen in the hearts of those around him in that church service. He found that he could give his heart over to serving Christ, and find this peace and joy. He also found that, in finding Christ, he found a way of overcoming his drug addiction. Drugs could not give him the peace and joy he sought.
He's been clean for several years now. He helps Christian groups with their music, because it is a talent of his.
Maybe one day he'll dress like everyone else and remove his tattoes. Maybe not. In the meantime, he's been glad to lose his needle tracks and gain a Savior. I was glad that I could see his heart, and not his appearance.
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Post by burdenofproof on May 23, 2011 16:07:20 GMT -5
If God's people are a peculiar people it may well be that they have chosen to dress in a peculiar fashion which distinguishes them from others. God's people? God's people being a peculiar people has little to do with dress. People wanting to portray themselves as God's people do like to dress in a peculiar way. Hair in buns and dresses has long been the mark of religion for certain fellowships. I think both hair and dress/skirt are taken to extreme. Likely they are followed in error. It seems like the "professing godliness look" has been narrowed down to two things for many females in the fellowship: 1) Bun or updo. (doesn't matter how long or what color). 2) Skirt or dress. (in variations). Make-up or jewelry, you ask? The reality is that professing women DO wear make-up and jewelry, just in certain forms.... But, I believe that to truly express the Christ within it is MORE than that....[or LESS than that?]. Why is it narrowed to those two things? Well, maybe it's not, but it seems like it is as those two things seem to still be consistent among professing women. What about other things of the outward appearance that may ALSO reflect a woman's degree of Godliness? Again, human beings tend to zero in on or focus on certain things while neglecting others. I am not proposing that the bun and skirt are wrong things. But what I am getting at is that while maintaining the bun and skirt as a "minimum requirement" of "professing godliness", people can forget/neglect OTHER things that are just as important, (if not more) or just as great an INDICATOR that a woman loves God with all her heart/mind/soul and respects the temple that He created for her. I am thinking of health and fitness, for one thing. I am thinking of whether or not people are really taking good care of their health; their bodies- as the temples of God. This has ALWAYS been a conviction of mine; although admittedly, I know I have fallen short at times, it has still remained a strong conviction: To honor the temple that God created for me. To be careful about what I do with this temple. To not put things in it that pollute it or desecrate it. To not do things that are wrong to do with this temple of God's. And also-TO DO things that are GOOD for this temple-that fortify it; that make it the BEST it can be.... just a few thoughts-bop
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 16:57:23 GMT -5
God's people? God's people being a peculiar people has little to do with dress. People wanting to portray themselves as God's people do like to dress in a peculiar way. Hair in buns and dresses has long been the mark of religion for certain fellowships. I think both hair and dress/skirt are taken to extreme. Likely they are followed in error. It seems like the "professing godliness look" has been narrowed down to two things for many females in the fellowship: 1) Bun or updo. (doesn't matter how long or what color). 2) Skirt or dress. (in variations). Make-up or jewelry, you ask? The reality is that professing women DO wear make-up and jewelry, just in certain forms.... But, I believe that to truly express the Christ within it is MORE than that....[or LESS than that?]. Why is it narrowed to those two things? Well, maybe it's not, but it seems like it is as those two things seem to still be consistent among professing women. What about other things of the outward appearance that may ALSO reflect a woman's degree of Godliness? Again, human beings tend to zero in on or focus on certain things while neglecting others. I am not proposing that the bun and skirt are wrong things. But what I am getting at is that while maintaining the bun and skirt as a "minimum requirement" of "professing godliness", people can forget/neglect OTHER things that are just as important, (if not more) or just as great an INDICATOR that a woman loves God with all her heart/mind/soul and respects the temple that He created for her. I am thinking of health and fitness, for one thing. I am thinking of whether or not people are really taking good care of their health; their bodies- as the temples of God. This has ALWAYS been a conviction of mine; although admittedly, I know I have fallen short at times, it has still remained a strong conviction: To honor the temple that God created for me. To be careful about what I do with this temple. To not put things in it that pollute it or desecrate it. To not do things that are wrong to do with this temple of God's. And also-TO DO things that are GOOD for this temple-that fortify it; that make it the BEST it can be.... just a few thoughts-bop Good grief, bop. Please tell us that professing women know that professing godliness is so much more than just wearing a bun and a skirt! For it would be a very sad day if that were the case...and sad if that is the only impression that others seeking for Christ get when they encounter a 'professing' woman.
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Post by imnx2 on May 23, 2011 17:10:40 GMT -5
Good grief, bop. Please tell us that professing women know that professing godliness is so much more than just wearing a bun and a skirt! For it would be a very sad day if that were the case...and sad if that is the only impression that others seeking for Christ get when they encounter a 'professing' woman. Just guessing that the hair, dress, make-up, and jewelry rules are the least of a godly woman. Something like the Pharisees that would tithe mint and such, but leave off the weightier matters. The weightier matters for the "professing" woman might be that which makes a woman "possessing".
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Post by burdenofproof on May 23, 2011 17:23:23 GMT -5
It seems like the "professing godliness look" has been narrowed down to two things for many females in the fellowship: 1) Bun or updo. (doesn't matter how long or what color). 2) Skirt or dress. (in variations). Make-up or jewelry, you ask? The reality is that professing women DO wear make-up and jewelry, just in certain forms.... But, I believe that to truly express the Christ within it is MORE than that....[or LESS than that?]. Why is it narrowed to those two things? Well, maybe it's not, but it seems like it is as those two things seem to still be consistent among professing women. What about other things of the outward appearance that may ALSO reflect a woman's degree of Godliness? Again, human beings tend to zero in on or focus on certain things while neglecting others. I am not proposing that the bun and skirt are wrong things. But what I am getting at is that while maintaining the bun and skirt as a "minimum requirement" of "professing godliness", people can forget/neglect OTHER things that are just as important, (if not more) or just as great an INDICATOR that a woman loves God with all her heart/mind/soul and respects the temple that He created for her. I am thinking of health and fitness, for one thing. I am thinking of whether or not people are really taking good care of their health; their bodies- as the temples of God. This has ALWAYS been a conviction of mine; although admittedly, I know I have fallen short at times, it has still remained a strong conviction: To honor the temple that God created for me. To be careful about what I do with this temple. To not put things in it that pollute it or desecrate it. To not do things that are wrong to do with this temple of God's. And also-TO DO things that are GOOD for this temple-that fortify it; that make it the BEST it can be.... just a few thoughts-bop Good grief, bop. Please tell us that professing women know that professing godliness is so much more than just wearing a bun and a skirt! For it would be a very sad day if that were the case...and sad if that is the only impression that others seeking for Christ get when they encounter a 'professing' woman. Well................if one did not know any better.....they may get that impression. But, I think that most professing people KNOW that professing godliness is much more than just wearing a bun and a skirt. Just as being a nun is much more than wearing a nun's habit! HOWEVER....Satan can get us coming or going...meaning, while thinking we are being "righteous" or dressing in a way that is "godly" and pleasing to the Lord, we could actually be deceived and mistaken and neglectful of other areas in our lives that are just as important if not MORE important. The way in which we dress is to a REFLECTION of what is on the inside, right? If so, then I think we really need to stop and think for ourselves about HOW Christ is COMPREHENSIVELY REFLECTED by us. "COMPREHENSIVE" meaning: Covering completely or broadly. Covering all possibilities. Is the bun/skirt combo the MOST godly way to appear? No, it's not. If that were so, then none of the men would be considered godly-appearing. No, it's not, because there are so many other factors beside a bun and skirt that can exude a Christ-like spirit or show that your body is indeed a Temple of God. There, does that explain what I mean a little better? Hope so. But someone may get the IMPRESSION that unless you have a bun and skirt as a female, you are not "professing godliness"....that is an attitude or judgement the many professing people have: (No bun and skirt? Oh, she must not be professing). -bop
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Post by quizzer on May 23, 2011 17:40:18 GMT -5
burdenofproof's post reminded me of Amelia Atmore's observations of the friends and workers in South Africa during the 1930s. I had recoiled at one of her observations that the friends and workers were obsessed with a certain health tonic that had questionable value.
I had walked away from this writing thinking, "No, this can't be true." I couldn't remember any tonics being widely circulated among the friends and workers.
Lately, though, while visiting a large group of friends, I was reminded of certain diets, vitamins, and health practices used among the friends and workers. These are done so that professing folks stay slim and have that certain "professing" image.
I was just saddened at the emphasis on appearance and not on health. Granted, society in general struggles with this. However, it would be a pleasant change of pace if the friends and workers could embrace stewardship of their bodies - focusing on maintaining the health of our God-given bodies instead of worrying about maintaining our professing image.
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Post by burdenofproof on May 23, 2011 17:52:12 GMT -5
Good grief, bop. Please tell us that professing women know that professing godliness is so much more than just wearing a bun and a skirt! For it would be a very sad day if that were the case...and sad if that is the only impression that others seeking for Christ get when they encounter a 'professing' woman. Just guessing that the hair, dress, make-up, and jewelry rules are the least of a godly woman. Something like the Pharisees that would tithe mint and such, but leave off the weightier matters. The weightier matters for the "professing" woman might be that which makes a woman "possessing". Good points, Greg. Perhaps the bun/skirt combo is considered a minimum requirement. But, I would put forth: When and why is it even considered a "requirement"? Did Jesus command it? Peter and Paul may have recommended it or something LIKE it, but did Jesus require it and does God require it? Perhaps this goes back to that basic question that Paul and others have asked: "Lord, what would You have me to do?" And the answer is.................? Love one another.By this shall all men know that you are my disciples. Follow my commandments. Love Me and love others as I have loved you. Keep my Words. Obey my commandments. Follow Me. etc. Christ was concerned about what the Pharisees were so focused on-while they neglected the MOST important thing. We can be guilty of that too. Peter was concerned that women were more/most focused on adorning their outward bodies than on the state of their inward-the soul; MORE concerned with how they appeared [physically] than with their spirit. Peter did not just address the issue of putting on gold(jewelry) and plaiting the hair, but he also mentioned APPAREL (clothing). 1 Peter 3,vs.3-5 These verses have been interpreted to mean godly women should NOT wear jewelry, but what about APPAREL? Are godly women not supposed to wear any apparel? Of course not! That part has been completely skipped over. I think what Peter was getting at there was to not ONLY concern oneself with your apparel & outward adornment; putting things on your body to enhance your looks: rather-we should be most concerned and worry the most about the state of our soul...and "adorn" (metaphor) ourselves with meekness, and a quiet spirit. So then, HOW does one "adorn themselves with a meek and quiet spirit?" The BEST way to do that is to have a Christ-like spirit. And the BEST way to have a Christ-like Spirit is to actually have the Spirit of Christ,[ the Holy Spirit] dwell within you; to inhabit your body as God's Temple. 1 Peter 3vs3-5: Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting of the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands.There is so much depth to these verses besides "no jewelry". -bop
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Post by sharonw on May 23, 2011 17:56:13 GMT -5
With sharonw's and emy's post, I wonder if the unwritten dress code is just another indicator of how the friends and workers are practicing seclusion as well as exclusivity...where we do NOT reach out to outsiders... ...it could just be that different overseers have different attitudes toward outreach... Observations, thoughts, anyone? Perhaps it is of the overseer's preferences, I don't know in all cases though...One time not so long ago, one of the elders of a mtg. took an American Native with him to some gospel mtgs. Well, after about 2 or 3 mtgs. and not one word about Jesus, the true gospel story the Native was no longer interested, so two of the elders approached the overseer who was having those mtgs. and asked him if he thought it'd be okay if they go have bible studies with the man....he told them in no uncertain terms "NO!" And little else.....another case with the same overseer, one of the friend's neighbors started asking a lot of question and was very interested in listening to the gospel mtgs. The friend told the sister workers who were supposed to be in that field and they were unable to get to the man, so they told the friend to call the overseer and see what he wanted to do about this very interested man. So the friend called the overseer and this time the overseer tells the friend "Just do what you can with him. I don't have time." So this overseer was not always of the same mind, so it seems....this had happened around the same time BTW!
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Post by sharonw on May 23, 2011 17:56:53 GMT -5
About 33-4 decades ago, this non-professing girl would have been welcomed with open arms and treated as if her dressage of the day was acceptable, though she could look all around and see it wasn't.....the workers would have kept her with one of them perhaps to ascertain her interest in perhaps coming to mtgs. She would have thought that the workers were the best people in the world....THAT has changed in the fellowship....the reaching out to the unprofessing that willingly come to a fellowship gathering! About 33-4 decades ago That's a very strange story about the young girl who was secluded because she wasn't dressed "properly." It's not something I can imagine happening. And where were her "friends"? Being left alone at a task at preps just doesn't sound normal! I agree with Sharon's perception of how it would have happened -- and even more so today than in former years, imo. Sorry, a typo emy....3-4 decades
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Post by burdenofproof on May 23, 2011 18:01:59 GMT -5
burdenofproof's post reminded me of Amelia Atmore's observations of the friends and workers in South Africa during the 1930s. I had recoiled at one of her observations that the friends and workers were obsessed with a certain health tonic that had questionable value. I had walked away from this writing thinking, "No, this can't be true." I couldn't remember any tonics being widely circulated among the friends and workers. Lately, though, while visiting a large group of friends, I was reminded of certain diets, vitamins, and health practices used among the friends and workers. These are done so that professing folks stay slim and have that certain "professing" image. I was just saddened at the emphasis on appearance and not on health. Granted, society in general struggles with this. However, it would be a pleasant change of pace if the friends and workers could embrace stewardship of their bodies-focusing on maintaining the health of our God-given bodies instead of worrying about maintaining our professing image. Thanks for sharing your observations and thoughts, quizzer. As I've stated before, "Satan can get you coming or going". The ideal is to have a healthy balance in all areas of our lives. And how do we do that as humans, because our tendency is to overdo things to a point of imbalance. Health and fitness can be carried to an extreme too. Well, we need Godly counsel, good sound guidance, and the power of the Holy Spirit to get it right. Yes! You said it: Good stewardship of our bodies.
You mention that "professing image". What comes to my mind most readily is along these lines: Over weight, dowdy, frumpy women who wear a bun and skirt. There are many overweight and obese people including professing women and sister workers. The reasons for being overweight or obese are varied, but it is not something that people have to be stuck with in most cases. Just as a smoker can quit smoking if they decide to, an obese person CAN eat less and increase activity to lose weight. Calories in/calories out-a tested, tried and true method for weight loss. In many cases, it is simply a matter of just deciding to not be so sedentary or slothful-or just deciding to be more selective/picky about what is eaten and portion size. ANY increase in physical activity is a help. Any decrease in calories helps. Even if a person is bed-ridden or chairfast, they do not have to be obese. -bop
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Post by sharonw on May 23, 2011 18:06:09 GMT -5
The other day I listened to the story of a Christian musician. This man had long hair, long beard, and numerous tattoes. He talked about being a drug-addicted hard rocker who had wandered into a Christian church one day. This had been the first time in a long time that he had attended church. He stayed through the sermon. When he left, he was filled with respect for Christianity. He wanted the peace and joy in his own heart that he had seen in the hearts of those around him in that church service. He found that he could give his heart over to serving Christ, and find this peace and joy. He also found that, in finding Christ, he found a way of overcoming his drug addiction. Drugs could not give him the peace and joy he sought. He's been clean for several years now. He helps Christian groups with their music, because it is a talent of his. Maybe one day he'll dress like everyone else and remove his tattoes. Maybe not. In the meantime, he's been glad to lose his needle tracks and gain a Savior. I was glad that I could see his heart, and not his appearance. One of our young adult male patients came into the clinic in severe pain in one of his lower legs...it was swollen into a strut and there were large red bumps all over his leg particularly in the calf muscle area, but some coming up on his shin bone. The dr. saw him and we gave him a shot of Rocephin an antibiotic, and some oral antibiotics. He came back for a checkup about 5 days later and the swelling was gone out of his leg and he waid that nearly every red spot had broken open and run awful stuff. And sad to say but his two children both picked up the staph infection and they had to be taken to a dr. He got his from a new tattoo. I asked him if his leg was clean or did the tattoo artist clean the area at all...he said he used alcohol, but the needles were stuck in some kind of liquid but not completely immersed in the liquid. It was one costly tattoo and we don't know for sure if it got into the shinbone or not...will take an xray at the end of 30 days to verify if the bone is clean or not.....I hope he's lucky and it didn't get into the bone.....osteomyelitis is something awful....terribly awful.
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Post by sharonw on May 23, 2011 18:11:15 GMT -5
God's people? God's people being a peculiar people has little to do with dress. People wanting to portray themselves as God's people do like to dress in a peculiar way. Hair in buns and dresses has long been the mark of religion for certain fellowships. I think both hair and dress/skirt are taken to extreme. Likely they are followed in error. It seems like the "professing godliness look" has been narrowed down to two things for many females in the fellowship: 1) Bun or updo. (doesn't matter how long or what color). 2) Skirt or dress. (in variations). Make-up or jewelry, you ask? The reality is that professing women DO wear make-up and jewelry, just in certain forms.... But, I believe that to truly express the Christ within it is MORE than that....[or LESS than that?]. Why is it narrowed to those two things? Well, maybe it's not, but it seems like it is as those two things seem to still be consistent among professing women. What about other things of the outward appearance that may ALSO reflect a woman's degree of Godliness? Again, human beings tend to zero in on or focus on certain things while neglecting others. I am not proposing that the bun and skirt are wrong things. But what I am getting at is that while maintaining the bun and skirt as a "minimum requirement" of "professing godliness", people can forget/neglect OTHER things that are just as important, (if not more) or just as great an INDICATOR that a woman loves God with all her heart/mind/soul and respects the temple that He created for her. I am thinking of health and fitness, for one thing. I am thinking of whether or not people are really taking good care of their health; their bodies- as the temples of God. This has ALWAYS been a conviction of mine; although admittedly, I know I have fallen short at times, it has still remained a strong conviction: To honor the temple that God created for me. To be careful about what I do with this temple. To not put things in it that pollute it or desecrate it. To not do things that are wrong to do with this temple of God's. And also-TO DO things that are GOOD for this temple-that fortify it; that make it the BEST it can be.... just a few thoughts-bop As to making an extra effort in the body care Jesus gave an answer when the Pharisees jumped Him about the Apostles not washing their hands before eating....Jesus told the Pharisees it was NOT what was put into the body that defiled man but what came out of his mouth, for if they ate something bad it came out with the draught...but the words of the mouth is evidence of what is in the heart of man. Paul mentioned that when people were overconcerned with the outward part that that indicated that they were "yet carnal" and not able to partake of the meat of the word. I truly think that is so with many of the 2X2 when they stress that the dress and hair appearance should be so and so...those who stress it and those who bend to that stress are "yet carnal" and not yet able to partake of the meat of the word.
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Post by burdenofproof on May 23, 2011 18:17:33 GMT -5
It seems like the "professing godliness look" has been narrowed down to two things for many females in the fellowship: 1) Bun or updo. (doesn't matter how long or what color). 2) Skirt or dress. (in variations). Make-up or jewelry, you ask? The reality is that professing women DO wear make-up and jewelry, just in certain forms.... But, I believe that to truly express the Christ within it is MORE than that....[or LESS than that?]. Why is it narrowed to those two things? Well, maybe it's not, but it seems like it is as those two things seem to still be consistent among professing women. What about other things of the outward appearance that may ALSO reflect a woman's degree of Godliness? Again, human beings tend to zero in on or focus on certain things while neglecting others. I am not proposing that the bun and skirt are wrong things. But what I am getting at is that while maintaining the bun and skirt as a "minimum requirement" of "professing godliness", people can forget/neglect OTHER things that are just as important, (if not more) or just as great an INDICATOR that a woman loves God with all her heart/mind/soul and respects the temple that He created for her. I am thinking of health and fitness, for one thing. I am thinking of whether or not people are really taking good care of their health; their bodies- as the temples of God. This has ALWAYS been a conviction of mine; although admittedly, I know I have fallen short at times, it has still remained a strong conviction: To honor the temple that God created for me. To be careful about what I do with this temple. To not put things in it that pollute it or desecrate it. To not do things that are wrong to do with this temple of God's. And also-TO DO things that are GOOD for this temple-that fortify it; that make it the BEST it can be.... just a few thoughts-bop As to making an extra effort in the body care Jesus gave an answer when the Pharisees jumped Him about the Apostles not washing their hands before eating....Jesus told the Pharisees it was NOT what was put into the body that defiled man but what came out of his mouth, for if they ate something bad it came out with the draught...but the words of the mouth is evidence of what is in the heart of man. Paul mentioned that when people were overconcerned with the outward part that that indicated that they were "yet carnal" and not able to partake of the meat of the word. I truly think that is so with many of the 2X2 when they stress that the dress and hair appearance should be so and so...those who stress it and those who bend to that stress are "yet carnal" and not yet able to partake of the meat of the word. Yes, spending too much energy in one area detracts from another. It is truly a wonderful thing to let go of certain burdens/worries/anxieties and be able to enter into the spiritual...to 'get into the Spirit'. We all need to drop certain things an just "enter into the Spirit". At fellowship meetings, we need not be distracted by one another, or by thoughts/worries of the world and enter into the Spirit...this is what enables us to get the most from fellowship. The Spirit is the Spirit. The flesh is the flesh. These two things will always be at odds with one another. We can be deceived into thinking that we are being more spiritual and godly, when really, we have just substituted one burden for another! fwiw, always,-bop
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Post by sharonw on May 23, 2011 18:25:29 GMT -5
It is always that the secondborn is served by the firstborn....the flesh is to serve the spirit, not the other way around, eh?
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Post by freespirit on May 23, 2011 18:27:42 GMT -5
Huh? Earlier you said that the verses you posted answered our questions about biblical modesty: Are you saying that the bible does or doesn't have definitive answers to the questions about biblical modesty? You wanted to know if the bible makes any mention of dress rules such as required sleeve lengths.I showed you the references I am aware of but explained that under Jesus we are free from OT law therefore do not have to observe such rigid rules but however we still have to dress with modesty. huh? Some people claim that only wrist length sleeves are modest. Some people have a different opinion. What do you mean by "dress with modesty"?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 19:19:08 GMT -5
FreespiritHi FS! Modesty is determined by your culture. In Abraham's day a modest and God fearing woman wore a veil. This was no longer the case in Jesus' day. But if you go to a strict Islamic country today a woman, wanting to be modest and respectful, will wear a veil. SharronSharonw, I am curious - you say that in 2 or 3 gospel meetings there was no reference to Jesus. Quote, unquote. I did the figures once and references to Jesus are made about every 90 seconds for an average hour length service - measured in the prayer, hymns and preaching. These include His name, His title and various pronouns, ie: Jesus The Son of God The Savior The Messiah He Him His Lord Lord and God King without laboring the point, etc, etc, etc.. Can you tell me what gospel service this was? Who was speaking? What year? Which district? Did they sing a hymn, and if so, which one(s)? What subjects did they speak about? Was there any prayer at this "Gospel"? And if so - to whom? I would like to follow this up.
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