|
Post by Admin on Aug 21, 2023 17:06:30 GMT -5
I reported the kerfluffle here on TMB last Wednesday night...it's no secret... In many places listening sessions have ended with lots of discouragement. I hear now that 60% of male workers on the NC/VA/MD/DE staff are gone. The last two from discouragement NOT any CSA or SA charges though.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Aug 23, 2023 22:00:40 GMT -5
Read a really good testimony by one of the friends. They spoke about how it usually felt good to come to convention but this year it felt like they were walking over the bodies of the victims to paraphrase. They didn't stop there either. More friends need to have the courage to speak up in their testimonies at convention and maybe then the workers will finally realize that their bread and butter is in danger if all the friends withdraw their wallets from them. Here it is. I don't know if I should put their name on it so I haven't From [redacted]:
I didn’t plan to claim my Altamont testimony on our region’s chat. I truly didn’t give it to be noticed and when it was mentioned in our regional chat, I was hesitant to claim it for fear of being seen that way. Clover eventually ID’d it as mine and that helped relieve me of some of the fear of being accused of that. I was unable to attend Thursday but got meetings from Friday on. I heard no direct mention of the CSA/SA crisis from the platform and from one other saints’ testimony during the second meeting on Friday. I understand that Thursday was much the same. I’d been praying for a while about whether to share what was on my heart about recent disclosures. There was an odd discordance between the testimonies from the platform and congregation, similar in tone and content to other years, in comparison to those heavy thoughts. The difference was so stark that the compulsion to share what was on my heart continued to grow. In the second meeting on Friday, I shared thoughts that were haunting me long before convention began. The following is my testimony, as best as I remember how it came out of me.
My thoughts were in Ephesians 5:6-11. I began by mentioning that it was hard for me to get much from convention this year in light of all that we've learned. We usually call convention a feasting time and I said it felt as though I strode over the bodies of victims to enter the house of feasting. I said that the words, "walk in the light" kept coming to me and I found that thought in Ephesians 5:8. It has come to light that criminal abuses are, were and have happened in our fellowship for some time. We say we are walking in the light, so we must walk in the light. We cannot do so while meeting with those walking in darkness, doing the works of darkness. Ephesians 5:11 says we should have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Those engaging in criminal abuse of our brothers and sisters are engaging in unfruitful works of darkness. Furthermore, it says of those doing criminally abusive things in Ephesians 5:7, "Be not ye therefore partakers with them." Ephesians 5:6 warns, “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” To allow these things to continue will invite the wrath of God upon our fellowship. I said that the basic laws of this country say these things are wrong. We are attaining to heavenly and eternal things, which have an even higher standard. Not only do the country’s laws say these criminal abuses are wrong, the scripture also says these things are wrong. We should not be partakers with these unrepentant criminal abusers, the scripture itself says so. If it says so, God Himself says so. I mentioned this year's convention guidance required parents to keep 24/7 watch on children to ensure their safety. I shared that, for many years, my dad didn't go to meeting and my mother brought my sister and I to convention alone. At first, we all stayed in the baby house, but at some point, probably around age 7 or 8, I aged out of the baby house and had to go to the men's quarters. I had to stay there alone and did so for about 6 years or so before Dad renewed his vow. I described one of the friends from my home area, kindly getting me set up in the men's quarters. He introduced me to some of the senior men there to look after me, and then I stayed in a men's quarters with no adult family members. Thankfully, nothing happened to me. If my mom learned about all that we now know this year, then had to send me off to a men's quarters alone, how would she have felt? With this year’s guidance indicating that all that kept me safe was her constant watch, how would she have accepted knowing I was all alone at the other end of the convention grounds?
Most of my testimony, from what I could hear of myself as I spoke, came out in an impassioned, pleading and rising tone (maybe unfortunately in hindsight). I closed by saying that this fellowship MUST improve. It is incumbent on it to develop, substantive comprehensive change. We sing, "there is rest, there is peace, in the fold" but there can only be those things where safety exists. The current standards are piecemeal and incomplete. Most region’s approaches don’t even agree. I look forward to comprehensive, substantive, universal change that keeps all in our fellowship safe. Then I sat and relinquished the mic.Thank you. Brave man!
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 2, 2023 20:27:52 GMT -5
Two for this week: Here in Ireland the overseer Craig Fulton will listen to your (stories about) abuse but is of the mindset of how can we cover this up . It is terrible the damage (that has) been done to this fellowship by the abusers being allowed in meetings . Proves it's all about place and who you are and the social contact. It makes me sad to read an article like that. I have some wonderful memories of my time as a 2x2. Conventions, Workers who cared for me when my Mum was so ill, Workers that worked with us on the farm. We were completely unaware of the dark underbelly. My Parents were so sincere, I know how disappointed they would be. And I feel so sorry for members of our Family and Friends that are 2x2's, it must be very tough for them to see that adverse publicity, my heart goes out to them. This awful scourge is right though our society and it beggars belief as to why it should be. It makes no sense to good and decent people, let alone as a crime within Churches.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 10, 2023 17:36:36 GMT -5
Two on similar lines: An example of belief being harmful is something I read in a post recently. Someone had posted that letting your children near pedophiles was immoral and her response was that judging someone was a sin and therefore it was wrong to sin to provide safety for your children, shows your lack of faith. Basically she's right I suppose if you believe that judging other's is a greater sin. But if that woman has any children, there is no way that she will protect them from abusers because she believes so wholeheartedly that she shouldn't judge. That in itself is child abuse and immoral imo, if she leaves her kids with workers that have allegations against them. Its mentioned that workers and the majority of friends wont stand up and put Abusers out of meetings They are living a lie how could you treat the poor abused people like this shameful
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 13, 2023 20:40:09 GMT -5
What a repentant CSA perpetrator would look likeMy name is Todd Price, I am a member of this fellowship and am a retired FBI Special Agent. For a significant part of my career, I investigated crimes against children, human trafficking, kidnapping, and other violent crimes. I am haunted to this day by memories and images of numerous terrible crime scenes, which are etched into my mind. It is my deepest hope that all victims would be believed and that some child sex offenders could truly find repentance. I write this, not because I think I have all the answers and I understand that there is more that can be added to the picture, but hope my experience and perspective will be helpful to the conversation about healing some horrible harm done to so many. What does repentance look like in the life of a sexual offender? In the Gospel of Matthew, John the Baptist admonished the multitude, “Bring forth, therefore, fruits meet for repentance”(Mt 3:8) or in another translation, “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance”. Repentance is an inward act with clear outward signals. If an offender has truly repented inwardly, then they have felt the depth and severity of the wounds they have inflicted, which produces the following outward actions: Offenders would realize that they must not be in any gathering with children, instead, the Offender would completely remove themself from meetings and would avoid, to the utmost degree, environments where children are present, even if encouraged or invited to return to meetings, the Offender would insist that they must not be present with children. Offenders would understand the great harm they have done, and would, fully acknowledge the harm, both to the primary victim(as appropriate with assistance from a therapist or victim advocate, NOT reaching out to victims on their own), and to all others they have groomed, and/or those to whom they have lied to conceal the abuse. Offenders would fully understand, and acknowledge the divisive effect of their presence in meetings, and would never seek to cause division in the fellowship. Offenders would confess and present themselves to law enforcement officials for any, and all punishment that would be required under state and federal law. Offenders would cooperate fully with all investigations and would fully disclose all victims to appropriate, responsible individuals trained to safeguard such sensitive information. Offenders would completely understand that pedophilia is not curable and their condition will require them to seek lifelong therapy. Offender will invite accountability regarding their criminal actions and sexual desires for the rest of their life. I have never heard of any offender from within this fellowship community or outside, that has shown these qualities of complete repentance. I believe it could only be possible with God’s help, and would truly be a miracle. Please understand also that tears and words do not, by themselves, show repentance. In Hebrews, Paul mentioned Esau, who was "rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears”. It is also important to understand a few things that do not constitute repentance and some that would clearly show that the place of repentance has not yet been found : Tears "I’m sorry" "I’ll change" or "I’ll never do it again” Any sort of minimization, deflection, or absolutely ANY type of victim blaming. Attempting to maintain place or position as worker, elder, etc., with promises of changes to behavior or actions. Pressuring the Ministry or friends to be allowed back in meetings. Matches what a sister worker said in 1991; It's so easy to ignore the times things do get done right. Those instances never happened - if we go by what we read on TMB. But right thing has happened many times, here's an example of a time things were done right 22 years ago. It's the dirty laundry that sells isn't it, that's why you read way more about it than clean laundry. People have always loved to air another's dirty laundry - those tales are as old as time.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Oct 7, 2023 6:40:42 GMT -5
Copied in part from (former) worker, Kelsay Yung's open letter: professing.proboards.com/post/1059902/threadOne thing I feel sure of: our only hope as a faith, is in truly following Jesus. Many of us have searched like never before, and we’re finding that we’ve been wrong. Have accepted what isn’t true or right as if it is. Have not searched scriptures and not been as honest and real in prayer as we could have been. Have stood by quietly when we could have spoken against wrong. Have feared men more than God. Have attributed things to God’s spirit that are not His Spirit. Have done things because “it’s what we do,” rather than seeking what God really wants, what is scriptural. Have been more Pharisee than good Samaritan.
It helps to read the Bible, and the New Testament in particular, as if I don’t know a thing. Having a thought and then searching to justify it isn’t safe. It’s arrogant. Being open and accepting of what God wants, and searching for that, is what has brought me peace. Jesus brought God’s will perfectly. It’s so beautiful.Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man is a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD shall be safe.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Nov 23, 2023 7:13:40 GMT -5
Post in response to the letter being circulated in New South Wales (Australia), asking for the zero-tolerance policy to be abolished. Pressure is being put on Graeme Dalton (overseer of NSW) to rescind the policy of zero tolerance of people with allegations against them of child sexual abuse; for the policy to be reversed and these people be returned to the fellowship including allowed to attend convention. Wow. I am stunned but not completely surprised. I have nothing to hide so I have no problem having my details being recorded when I attend convention or a meeting. I attend conferences for work and attendance is recorded there also for various reasons. I think such a view as expressed by this group of individuals within our fellowship shows a great ignorance to the lifelong harm that sexual assault, and in particular, childhood sexual assault, has on the victim. I think Jesus made it very clear about the consequences of hurting one of the little ones. The prospect of someone being falsely accused is scary but the evidence is strong that this will be the small minority of accusations. The vast majority will be true even if they are never processed through the courts. Children must be protected at all cost. The days of being unrealistic and thinking that convention is a piece of heaven on earth are gone. The reality check has been harsh but the reality is that while on this earth we are human. The workers are human. And humans are flawed. All of us.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Dec 15, 2023 17:57:23 GMT -5
Some wisdom on 'Divided Homes': Yes I imagine that would be true for a divided home too. I'm curious. In a divided home, did the professing person not share things in the church with their spouse? Just some stuff maybe? I'm sure that it varies from home to home. Hopefully both spouses understand exactly why one spouse chose to leave the fellowship, and why the other didn't and that that is respected by each spouse. That would be the ideal. I think that the spouse who leaves the meetings needs to be subsequently careful that their actions and words regarding the church don't hurt their spouse (eg in any way mock the spouse's belief or faith however gently - I think be very caring around this because faith matters can often be felt very personally and it would be easy to hurt). If care like that is shown I think it will confirm trust, allowing the sharing of things openly about the fellowship by the professing spouse. Just my 2 cents worth.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 5, 2024 17:00:02 GMT -5
Forgiveness is not for the abuser. If it helps a survivor heal it is for the survivor. If it does not help the survivor heal it's not necessary for them to forgive being raped. The survivor did nothing wrong. I feel like throwing up when people say that if the survivor does not forgive they are going to hell and also when it's advocated that they need to be able to come back to the meetings if they repent. The only way an abuser is repenting is to turn themselves over to the authorities and take their punishment and then they should voluntarily make sure they are never around children again. Allowing them into meetings is triggering for the adult survivors that may be sitting in the meeting with their abuser or with someone who has been an abuser. There is no place for them in the meetings period. If they are truly sorry and repent they will make sure that they listen to the meetings but never go to one again. Otherwise, they have not repented. Anyone that claims they never knew it was bad for an adult to rape a child has no moral compass imo. Any one with any sense of morality or any sense at all for that matter should automatically know that it's a terrible thing to do to a child and terribly wrong. You don't need a course to tell you that. I don't believe the workers when they say they didn't know it was damaging. No one in their right mind could believe it wasn't damaging. They decided it was to be ignored because it helped preserve the reputation of the ministry and it allowed them to keep workers in the field. Now that we know that 40% of the allegations overall were workers, I can see how that would have depleted the numbers. It was self serving and those who were part of moving these abuser around should also be turning themselves into authorities and doing jail time.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 24, 2024 16:35:07 GMT -5
I believed once. Knowing how people have created religions and Gods the world over, finally made me see that the probability of any of these Gods existing is very low. If a higher power does exist, I don't think that anyone has a clue what that higher power is or wants from us, if anything. Ok forget religion for a minute, don't you even question that something has to have created everything? If I didn't believe in God, that would be something that would make me think. Especially the way everything is created to work? Like the distance of the sun is just right to give us life, the way the rain in cleansed daily, the way the moon gives us light at night, the way the wind comes back clean every day, the way trees take in the carbon dioxide we breathe out and give off the oxygen that we breathe in. The way we plant a seed and it grows to give us food, animals can provide food for us too. Everything from the smallest creatures to the the huge sun have a purpose and they all contribute to help to keep this world going and keep us living. The way everything works to me shows me that creation has to have a greater mind behind it all. And to me that creator is the living God.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 26, 2024 17:04:45 GMT -5
My dear sweetheart Wendy has now gone into permanent residential Aged Care. The Alzheimer's is taking over and her Doctor told her she will need more care that I would be unable to provide. Not easy being separated from the only Woman you have ever loved and spent the last 63 years with. Many tears. I will visit every day and have a meal with her. I just love this song that I post, it was and still is my Wendy. It does make the tears run down my cheeks. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wzra15jcQ0
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 22:41:35 GMT -5
UK/Irish worker Abram or Abraham Dawson who was a worker for many years and possibly died in the 1980s? Born in Ireland but preached in the UK? May also have had a brother who was also a worker? Named to me as a serial abuser of young/very young girls in England. If anyone has information in respect to his timeline/locations in the work in the UK then please consider posting here or pm me. Any worker lists with his name on would be most welcome too. It goes without saying that there are correct channels to report abuse, even in cases where the alleged perpetrator is deceased. The AFTT folks plus local police services would be places to contact if there is an official complaint that one wishes to report or even if someone just wants to speak privately and confidentially about it. Heck, if you want to tell your story then I'm willing to listen. I'm not an investigator, I'm simply someone who is horrified by what has happened over the years and at how it has been enabled and also covered up 'for the good of the kingdom'- a morally bankrupt statement if ever there was. Our parents were told to trust the workers and they told us to trust the workers. Our grandparents revered the 'strangers' who turned up in their communities, they kept their photos of the workers through whom they professed as treasured possessions- photos were indeed expensive in the 1910s/20s/30s/40s!! Workers themselves have also stood on the platform and preached that 'we' should trust them and not criticise them- I recall a visiting American sister worker at Debenham/Suffolk in the early 90s who was most vehement on this; I can picture her to this day stood preaching us that. Workers were placed on such a high pedestal that to find out that they were/are capable of serious abuse in sexual, physical and psychological ways is extremely upsetting and angering. Often we were kept isolated from the 'sinful world' and its dangers and years later we find that we were more at risk from those who walked among us!! Now clearly I am not suggesting that every worker is guilty of evil behaviours. But what I want to get through to people is that this is not a new issue whatever anyone may think, and that there are people/friends out there who have carried painful memories and possibly shame for many many years for matters in which they were entirely innocent. How shocking it is to discover that people who spoke to us, who smiled at us, who were highly regarded by our parents, who stayed in our childhood homes (sometimes babysat us), who commanded our respect and attention, were predators of the worst kind! Talk about this!! Ask your friends and your childhood friends if they were ever abused, and if they answer no, then thank your god or pure blind luck that this is the case. Don't think for one moment that you never crossed paths with a predator or a groomer or a sociopath. Surely surely the practice of workers staying in friends houses has to end??
|
|
|
Post by mod7 on Feb 5, 2024 17:14:50 GMT -5
Leo Stancliffe preached a false gospel. Leo preached: My hope of salvation is the blood of Christ. But I would like to explain to you what it means. The blood of Christ is the ministry and the church in the home. Without the New Testament ministry you don’t have the blood of Christ which includes the church in the home. The forgiveness of sins is a fringe benefit. - Leo Stancliffe, worker, 1981 Leo said the blood of Jesus is the ministry and meeting in the home. No, the blood of Jesus is Jesus death on the Cross. What Leo said is the opposite to what you [Nathan] have been saying to Maryhigs. To Christians Jesus saves, not men. Fringe benefit means an extra, something on the edge, not the main part.
|
|