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Post by sharon on Jun 19, 2009 19:54:19 GMT -5
Given the current economic situation in Michigan, rent might be less expensive than normal. Some people that leave the work have friends or family that help them with immediate expenses to start a new life. (Sometimes these friends and family aren't even professing people.) Whatever your opinion of the workers, most people who join the work do it because they feel God calling them to a ministry. I've never met any workers who went out because they thought it would be a cushy lifestyle. If someone has given months or years in service to a church, it would be a shame if no one helped them when they left the work. Jesus taught that we should love and care for our neighbors. That includes ex-workers, resting workers, widows, orphans, struggling young families, people getting divorced... Even the guy who goes to jail for robbing a bank deserves compassion and care as he faces the consequences of his actions! I think we've already read on TMB just how much "support" an ex-worker gets! Didn't someone say he/she is given 1000.00 dollars and maybe the ticket to where they want to land? I know a member of my own family had less then that and if it hadn't been me co-signing and giving them money they would've been down on skidrow...probably!
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Post by fred on Jun 20, 2009 2:36:52 GMT -5
.....In my corner of the world about 10 yrs ago it was $300. Even then it wouldn't get you far.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 20, 2009 4:39:11 GMT -5
Well, the money has been funneled into the proper channels, the damage has been done, and the rest lies in ruins.
I asked the questions in post #662 but I already knew the answers. No, they did not get severance pay, and while the "relatives" may have helped a bit, I still say, follow the money. How long do workers have to be out before they are allowed back in?
Stay tuned for more exciting adventures.
Chalk one up for those that want to see those that are sincere, and really following their hearts, go down in flames.
You know who you are, and congratulations. I mourn for my many friends that will feel this widespread impact.
As went this thread, so goes the rest. The money and the power it brings will only produce corruption, and so with that said, I will leave the posting to those that are going to straggle and watch a real tragedy unfold.
over and completely out for now........................................................Pianoman
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Post by sharon on Jun 27, 2009 10:29:48 GMT -5
Is it possible the 2 ex sister workers are also pawns? I'd hate to think that is a possibility, I mean how cruel could that be....ex'd out of the work, ex'd out of the fellowship and what other ex'd can there be when it's all over, said and done with?
My heart goes out to those who've been used as pawns in some bigger scenario.....I think of those young girls who are starting out their adult life with one legal blow against them! That is awfully sad! I know their family has stood behind them and will stand behind them hoping and trying to get them back on track again! They have my best wishes!
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jul 2, 2009 19:04:39 GMT -5
For all readers info today the second twin plead guilt no contest too all the charges. However, made a plea bargin.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 2, 2009 22:02:43 GMT -5
I still value my privacy, but also do not want anyone to forward from here basing their decisions on who they "think I am." Here is who some think I am, followed by who I am not. I have always felt that there were those who were willing to assume things with little or no facts to back them up. Watching them assume things about me has proven that point (to me.) Starting with my first question about this case on this thread Is it that you can't or that you refuse to accept the truth of the truth, if you and or your friend Brother Schrock are closer to the fact please do tell us the forum is yours, so please do expound? We knew what you were up to right away when you posted. I have to really wonder if Bandtroll is one of the accused, or if this person is just trying to "stand behind" the overseer. Hmmmm- Bandtroll, you surely sound like a side-kick for JF. because you certainly are looking more and more like a JF puppet and or a worker out of the five involved in this case. Bandtroll, sorry to have mistaken your gender. I have been appraised of who you really are, and now it all makes sense to me. This is the Michigan case, and if you are to rely on your "facts" you should back up all of your statements on here with written facts. You can get them can't you. A job perk? So, with that clear ed up, we'll discuss Bandtroll. Come on, do you think we are so stupid that we can know what you are trying to do? You are not going to get out of this incident, and we know you are very involved. You are even involved in other incidents that should have been reported but were not. ... The effort you are putting in just goes to show how concerned you are with a lot of incidents and I would be too! JHJMR, and Sharon, I believe that bandtroll should be dismissed, and considered for what they are. … Involved, not too smart, as when their ISP is discovered, they may wind up in real trouble, but that is for them to worry about. Bandtroll: these posts between social worker and you sure have a lot of similarities especially post #84 (now post 81) sure indicates it, (but not 100% sure). ...I also highly suspect pianoman has found out who you are bandtroll? About what I know about whom.....(smile) *wink, who me???* ... Time will tell. I wonder if social workers are in great demand in trying to find new jobs?? Only the Shadow knows, and pianoman isn't missing too many licks either................P-man Bandtroll: are you a JF adviser? Bandtroll IS in Michigan, and IS a person that is involved in this case in an indirect way. ... The only purpose for Bandtroll to be on here posting, saying that they have been involved in simular cases -NOT- ... Bandtroll plays fast and loose with real experiences, very much like a representative of the courts or social services and will not accept the fact of others having information on a personal level. This is the problem with our courts and social services system, only wanting the facts that they have generated to be the "real facts" and disavow personal accounts of others, that have not had an opportunity to have their statements read into the court documents. ... Methinks Bandtroll doth protest too much. Also Meknows that bandtroll has made the mistake of using terms that link them to their real identity. ... Simply, Bandtroll can not be trusted and does not want the facts as they state, and is putting their reputation at stake, as a close minded agent for someone. Band-troll, I split your name because one poster on here named "social worker guest" used the term "troll", which is not a commonly used term by the general public, but a personal term used by this "social worker guest" and appears in your screen name. This is probably just a coincident, as I am sure you would be the only one using that term, along with this "separate" person logging on as "social worker guest". 2+2=4 again. ... are far more believable and consistent that YOUR side. ... Even with your involvement, you will be biased to one side. ... Have you tried to approach JF or anyone else to offer a solution? I know you disavow any connection, but that falls on deaf ears. ... Denying that is foolish, as you claim to be in possession of so many facts that you can refute those that were there ... Perhaps you are one, and are doing spin control? … The fact that they are too close, and are having trouble expressing exact things, doesn't negate their input, it is simply an indication of their frustration of dealing with those in the system like yourself Bandtroll, have you lost any sleep over this case? ... Are you not protecting yourself? ? Hope they call you to testify, because you also could do some explaining. You are not reading facts, you are putting forth facts that has to be from the side that came up with all the names. How interesting. Keep writing. We are learning much! JHJMR, we must remember that Bandtroll is only dealing with "facts". Of course those facts must promote Bandtroll's professional position ... We should really have pity on bandtroll, as the mindset is typical of one in that field that has been taken in, as they are trained professionals that never miss a trick. ... I also think that bandtroll has such a good prospective on "incompetency" being somewhat of an expert on the subject. Makes you wonder how people like that make decisions that affect others so much, when they are questionable in thier own thinking. So, get your witnesses, your arguments and your so called evidence in place. It'll be interesting what you will use in court. And who's butt you are protecting. You are either one of those four, or in very close to this group. No that is not a guess, and I am not trying to figure out "who" you are. I have enough information on that subject. * * * * I have never made a statement on this or any other thread with the intent to mislead anyone. Everything I have posted is how I alone feel based on what has happened in my life and those of my friends and family in regards to mental health and court issues. (First person accounts) 1) I do not, nor have I ever lived in MI 2) I have not discussed this case with anyone other than on the TMB 3) I do not know nor know of those involved in this case other than what I have learned on the TMB 4) I do not have any education/employment background that would cause me to ever be involved in a case like this Again, I am all about the facts and innocent until proven guilty ON ALL SIDES. I really have no interest or comments beyond what what happened in the court case/hospital. GOOD ADVISE Names may be bantered about in the MI homes of acquaintances who have some awareness or tattling suspicions of the whos, whats, whens and wheres to consume their conversations, but not on TMB. I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Post by pianoman on Jul 2, 2009 22:46:29 GMT -5
Bannedtroll, oops bandtroll, I hope you have good insurance, you will need it to have your dislocated shoulder, from patting yourself on the back, put back into the socket.
To quote your post:" 1) I do not, nor have I ever lived in MI 2) I have not discussed this case with anyone other than on the TMB 3) I do not know nor know of those involved in this case other than what I have learned on the TMB 4) I do not have any education/employment background that would cause me to ever be involved in a case like this
If there is any truth to this, you would certainly have facts to back it up! Oh wait, that is your claim to fame.
If there is any truth to these statements, you are just another dispicible agitator, that went on facts you had no knowledge about.
You claimed to "know" Things to not be factually supported. That is another contradiction of which you are great at, so I guess you must have a special ESP quality none of us possess.
Soon the legal papers will be posted, (unless stricken by the administrators) and you will see things like "(twins) aided and abetted by (names withheld pending the post).
Perhaps then, your crowpie will go down a bit easier.
Also to quote you:" Again, I am all about the facts and innocent until proven guilty ON ALL SIDES. I really have no interest or comments beyond what what happened in the court case/hospital"
For one that was simply interested in facts and what the court says, seems like you are either a liar, or once again possess that ESP that only you could possess.
If you find things in the official documents, that had to be held until the final stage, which was today, concerning the falsely accused, and the accusers, which were pawns of those to be mentioned, let us all know. I am sure your crystal ball will reveal the real truth, even though the court "botched" what we had been posting, and were dead on the money about.
You will see that there are some that are not named in these papers other than being referred to as "ministers" because the names are recorded to some degree with the prosecutor and there has been no contact orders placed against them, including uninvolved parties.
Too bad the papers could not be produced sooner, but that is the way the cookie bounces.
Good luck in your next endeavor to divert facts and spread confusion. You're pretty good at it.
If you have responses to this, please post facts on legal documents, or state as a disclaimer, that you are the one that is speculating.
On believing anything you post from here forward as well as back, well I won't hold my breath.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 3, 2009 8:09:45 GMT -5
If there is any truth to this YOU haven't believed what I have posted in the past, nor was this post directed to you, so I didn't really expect the light bulb to go on now. Sorry, I have not documents proving I am 'bandtroll.' it may seem that way to those who are emotionally involved with this case, but to others I would just be seen as asking reasonable questions/having reasonable doubts. Being listed in legal papers does not prove ones guilt, unless those papers show that those people were found guilty/admitted guilt. (The others named, not the twins) Listing the "200" in legal papers did not make them guilty, so what is the point you are trying to make? Again being named, does prove their guilt in a court of law.
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Post by pianoman on Jul 3, 2009 22:35:18 GMT -5
If there is any truth to this YOU haven't believed what I have posted in the past, nor was this post directed to you, so I didn't really expect the light bulb to go on now. Sorry, I have not documents proving I am 'bandtroll.' it may seem that way to those who are emotionally involved with this case, but to others I would just be seen as asking reasonable questions/having reasonable doubts. Being listed in legal papers does not prove ones guilt, unless those papers show that those people were found guilty/admitted guilt. (The others named, not the twins) Listing the "200" in legal papers did not make them guilty, so what is the point you are trying to make? Again being named, does prove their guilt in a court of law. White Knight asked you specific questions regarding this, and you played like you didn't want your identity revealed as if it were of relevance. You will disagree with papers, court documents and direct testamony, if it is not stated as you like it, so at this time, you have shown yourself as a small and petty instigator. The saying is: "when you argue with an fool, they are doing the same thing." I will dismiss you as such, and will never respond again to any of your blatherings. good luck
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Post by sharon on Jul 4, 2009 10:20:50 GMT -5
Where was it I read that all allegations were dismissed? That all names were erased? I hope so....though I have to wonder what the plea bargain was for? I'm under the impression that when the courts decided that all the allegations were false and were dismissed, that the civil lawsuits would continue! I hate for people to end up doing this because often the personal satisfaction sought doesn't happen....but yet I know that God can use things like this to bring about the truth where the truth was so blatantly undone! I just pray all can come together in humility and those that are in the place of leadership can humble themselves and say "I'm sorry!" Whether they feel there is a need for it or not. They might be exceptionally surprised at what that kind of humility and kindness would bring about for them! Takes a big person to say I'm sorry, doesn't it?
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 6, 2009 20:52:16 GMT -5
Sharon, no names will ever be erased. They will only be sealed from public eye. So, it does cause grief to think that those names will always be somewhere. And the names were passed around by others that had a list of the names that were turned into the police. That is very disturbing. Humility and kindness by the leader doesn't erase the terrible error others of his staff enjoyed by smearing someone's name. Those members need to be corrected and sooner than later. That isn't for a personal satisfaction but for a lesson in having a GODLY spirit and a loving spirit towards others.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 6, 2009 21:50:45 GMT -5
(From the MI Poll thread) i agree. It seems that since two sisters are out of the work over it, there are veryyyyyyy strong feelings. I wonder how they feel now that they know it was a lie. One of the court documents loaded by 'whiteknight' is a restraining order that the workers have no contact with defendant [name removed] It states as follows: 1. [name removed] has been charged with false report of a felony contrary to MCL 750.411(A)(1)(B), based on multiple allegations of sexual assault and child pornography. 2. During the time the Defendant was making these allegations, she was aided and abetted by [names removed], and associated ministers. This does create a suspicion, and I wonder what it means. And why were the defendants charged with felonies and no charges brought against anyone else? Aiding and Abetting
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 2:40:34 GMT -5
jhmjr....I had thought that if the leadership would "start" with a humble "I'm sorry" then perhaps that would start a more positive reaction in all of the players....however if there are those who just won't think a "I'm sorry" is something to start a positive healing...then I'm sure that the leadership knows that and won't budge either...because it would be for naught!
I know a "I'm sorry" isn't going to remove all that has passed over, but generally it does say that someone has at least begun to learn a lesson, doesn't it?
Two wrongs won't make a right and for " Those members need to be corrected and sooner than later. That isn't for a personal satisfaction but for a lesson in having a GODLY spirit and a loving spirit towards others." the powers that be are going to say that sweeping it under the carpet and keeping your mouth shut in any form is best....and to some degree it does bring into the things that Jesus have done when He sought to forgive, and repair damages....He wouldn't keep bringing up the woes, but as He told the adulterous woman..."Go and sin no more." Otherwords, I don't want to hear about it anymore!
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Post by rational on Jul 7, 2009 13:32:54 GMT -5
Sharon, no names will ever be erased. They will only be sealed from public eye. So, it does cause grief to think that those names will always be somewhere. And the names were passed around by others that had a list of the names that were turned into the police. That is very disturbing. Humility and kindness by the leader doesn't erase the terrible error others of his staff enjoyed by smearing someone's name. Those members need to be corrected and sooner than later. That isn't for a personal satisfaction but for a lesson in having a GODLY spirit and a loving spirit towards others. I believe you are incorrect. Michigan, as do most states, has a Criminal Expungement statute that removes records. It is possible to get the records deleted/removed.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 7, 2009 15:24:03 GMT -5
NOPE, only sealed but never ever destroyed. Be nice if you were correct but no such luck in Michigan!! If a person's name is on the papers, they could hire an attorney and the prosecutor would have to show the attorney that name and then that name starts a new file and it would state that the rape charge was false, but it would not be sealed and then for some unknown reason, someone could dig and find out that a person was charged once, even though it was false, but they could sure raise a ugly question about the character of the person like they do with politicians. That is how dirt is dug up years later.
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Post by rational on Jul 12, 2009 18:32:00 GMT -5
NOPE, only sealed but never ever destroyed. Be nice if you were correct but no such luck in Michigan!! Seems odd that Michigan would have the following statute on the books: Michigan Criminal Expungement
Criminal Procedure : Expungement
* Purpose
The purpose of the expungement statute is to expunge the record of one-time offenders who satisfy the requirements of the act.
* Applicability - Time
An application for expungement of a criminal conviction may not be filed until five years after imposition of the sentence, or until five years after completion of any term of imprisonment, whichever occurs later. MCL 780.621(3)expunge: 1. To erase or strike out. 2. To eliminate completely; annihilate.Doesn't sound like sealing is an option.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 12, 2009 19:32:44 GMT -5
There was no criminal procedure, only a admittance of lying by one twin and no contest to lying from the other twin. Thank goodness none accused were made one time offenders. There were several that were first named, investigated and that is when it was determined to charge the twins with lying. They also were charged with lying about child porno. That was a big allegation they also made before they added all the rape charges. Talk to any legal person and they will tell you, no erase, just seal. Wish sealing wasn't an option. Many many people would be knocking on the prosecutors door.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 13, 2009 15:27:59 GMT -5
O.K., now you can tell the court papers were altered. We didn't even spell minor. We spelled it monor. Those are legal documents that someone feels that they must have some ruling over. So, when this is done, does anyone want to believe anything that is posted, as anyone can change things to meet their requirements and just a slight change of words can change the complete meaning.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 13, 2009 16:36:11 GMT -5
O.K., now you can tell the court papers were altered. We didn't even spell minor. We spelled it monor. Those are legal documents that someone feels that they must have some ruling over. So, when this is done, does anyone want to believe anything that is posted, as anyone can change things to meet their requirements and just a slight change of words can change the complete meaning. The only thing changed (removed) was the last names jhjmr. the word 'monor' is still misspelled in one place as it was on the original court documents that I have. Maybe I am missing what you are trying to say here. Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 13, 2009 16:44:17 GMT -5
By the mispelling of a word or removing words, no one knows what is moved, changed or eliminated. Now, when that is done, it is a altered papers, not a legal court document. It is illegal to alter or change legal documents. Also, you were the one that informed that the court papers would be removed if not changed. There were many papers that you posted in the past with full names, accusations and personal letters, signed in full. Where were the mods and admin. then?
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Post by mod3 on Jul 13, 2009 22:10:37 GMT -5
By the mispelling of a word or removing words, no one knows what is moved, changed or eliminated. Now, when that is done, it is a altered papers, not a legal court document. It is illegal to alter or change legal documents. Also, you were the one that informed that the court papers would be removed if not changed. There were many papers that you posted in the past with full names, accusations and personal letters, signed in full. Where were the mods and admin. then? jhjmr, you are mistaken. I was the one who sent WhiteKnight a PM about his posts containing court documents. Just in case it's not clear, mod3 is NOT Scott. Scott and I actually disagreed on whether to leave the court documents. He suggested we leave them alone because readers would cry censorship if we took them down. I didn't want the names of 4 minor children posted publicly on the board, so I issued the warning and then took them down when WK did not remove the names.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 13, 2009 23:46:34 GMT -5
I'm getting deja vu from all those times I was told that I had no credibility due to being anonymous.
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Post by jhjmr on Jul 14, 2009 11:06:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't want to accuse Scott of anything he didn't do. I know he sent the message to remove them, so therefore I thought it was him, so sorry about that.
So, do you think it did any good to remove the names after they were put on the thread and was read by many? The purpose was accomplished and that was what was important. The message was put out and even now with the names removed, it doesn't matter. Everyone knows who is talking about whom.
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Post by bandtroll on Jul 14, 2009 12:44:38 GMT -5
Why is it that these to documents have not been reposted?
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Post by mod3 on Jul 14, 2009 13:44:29 GMT -5
Why is it that these to documents have not been reposted? Those are WhiteKnight's original links. He must have moved or deleted the images from tinypic.com. The moderators did not remove any names from those images, so we left the original links.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jul 16, 2009 21:18:33 GMT -5
On the other hand, maybe they are case# 09-1438 X-REF: 144-121609 and case #:2009000808 /09-1438C This is about the bondsman case; others so desperately want to hide. This case started 5/12/09(warrant authorized) and on the 6/16/09 subscribed and sworn before the Judge. On the 7/2/09 brought to trial. Now Scott why don’t you tell the truth. If this thing was bogus as you say, don’t you think this accusation would have been dropped then and not wait until Aug for another hearing. After all John has been in that system for a very long time. Oh did I mention ironically he has the same attorneys as Stephanie has (law firm). This incidentally; ends Stephanie’s case, as the court found her guilty giving her the same sentence as Bethany. That is lowering it to “mister meaner” which carries, one yr probation and seeing the co cmh. In short, there is NO hearing for her in AUG. So get your info striate!!!
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jul 16, 2009 21:27:19 GMT -5
And yes Scott I understood when I thought you were mod three that you are not mod three sorry for the mixup. As mod three tried this before.
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