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Post by TrollyOllie on Apr 9, 2008 0:13:12 GMT -5
Here is a real case example. Mine. I am now a fairly old Troll. Much to old to still be under the bridge ;D Well many moons ago when I had some young trolls, one of my own got a black eye while playing ball with friendly humans after the 2x2 potluck on Sunday. No problem-we iced it and he went to school on Monday as usual. Well the teacher in one class, 6th grade, asked about what happened but did not believe my young troll man. The teacher sent him down to the office and they asked him more questions. They then called home and my troll mate who told them what happened. We thought that was the end of it. NOT SOFour (4) months and 1 week later Two CPS workers showed up at our door and wanted to ask us some questions. It seems that the school reported this black eye to CPS. So we invited them in to our humble Troll Hole and answered their questions. They asked if they could see my young Troll Man and we agreed. All signs of the Troll eye bop were now gone and my Troll Man was well cared for. They asked my young Troll Man some questions and reviewed our living conditions. Our Troll Hole was neat and did not show any signs of recent Troll Food Feeding Frenzies. So the CPS people told us that all seemed OK and agreed they believed there was no problem and the report was just a safeguard. They informed us that the school was required to report the incident if there was any doubt. So from the start it was the school officials who were skeptical. We could never justify their skepticism of our Troll POD as we maintained the highest standards of Troll POD order and Troll Sprout rearing and education to include active involvement. We could only assume it was because we perhaps were Trolls. Well I asked the CPS workers why it took so long to come and check it out? Expounding to them: If it was a real physical abuse would they not want to be their when the evidence was fresh. The reply: They get so many complaints and there are so few workers case examiners, that the backlog was 6 months or more. They told us that cases which had reports of physical evidence of suspected abuse took a minimum of 4 months to actually get all paperwork in order and assign the examiners. They apologized and told us that unfortunately this is the way it works and there were many real cases that took all to long as a result of the many non-cases like ours. Then then gave us a copy of the case report disposition which said essentially "No abuse found nor did their review indicated that any abuse ever took place nor were the children in danger; The Troll Pod was well intact and well adjusted with no signs of disharmony" CASE CLOSED This how it works for real.
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Post by what is truth on Apr 9, 2008 4:53:21 GMT -5
One thing I have learned in life; JUSTICE is not administered by courts. TRUTH is not found in the legal system. JUSTICE does not always prevail in the legal system.
I can clearly remember in the legal system where I was completely correct in my pursuit of JUSTICE but I compromised to avoid a long protracted and expensive law suit and JUSTICE was not achieved.
I also can clearly remember where a father was prosecuted by CPS by a vengeful and lying daughter because he objected to her drug abuse. She accused him of dreadful unspeakable actions and the CPS were a willing and ready group to take up these completely untrue allegations. He was vindicated but destroyed by the actions of a silly and foolish young girl.
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Post by cheechette on Apr 9, 2008 9:42:42 GMT -5
If a person is making allegations of sexual or physical abuse and a Judge asked you to take a polygraph test to try and make sure you are not making false allegations.... why would not one be willing and gladly take that test to prove their allegations are correct. When you refuse or say you can't do that - to me that shows there is a problem. If you were telling true allegations, wouldn't you want to make sure that the person responsible for your abuse would be punished and if the only way you can show you are not making false allegations is by helping and taking a polygraph test. I understand many people can be so cold and emotionally not care that they can be guilty and still pass the polygraph test. But, it sure is worth a try.
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Iris
New Member
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Post by Iris on Apr 9, 2008 10:11:09 GMT -5
I heard, from reliable source, that both girls have taken the lie detector test. They were not able to complete them because they became too emotional.
It seems those involved (but not wanting to be) are clueless as to whats going on and of the accusations. Yet, those not involved and who aren't in the state or near, seem to know everything and the names of who are involved. Hmm...... somethings not right.
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Post by reliable sources on Apr 9, 2008 10:36:55 GMT -5
I heard, from reliable source, that both girls have taken the lie detector test. They were not able to complete them because they became too emotional. It seems those involved (but not wanting to be) are clueless as to whats going on and of the accusations. Yet, those not involved and who aren't in the state or near, seem to know everything and the names of who are involved. Hmm...... somethings not right. Unless your reliable source is the judge him/her self, that info is no more/less valid than anything else posted on this thread. Someone involved is only going / wanting to hear one side. Someone out side the area may be getting their information from more than one source. In business we say if you want to know what's going on with our compitition, "Don't ask their marketing people, have our accountants talk to their accountants (or enginers)." IOW, talk to the people who deal in facts and aren't on the front line putting on a front.
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Post by social worker on Apr 9, 2008 11:13:39 GMT -5
Social worker, Are you serious? I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or are being serious... The best definition of abuse here, is when someone is abusive towards private parts, and seems to enjoy it. No I am serious. We have a 4 month backlog on these type cases.
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Post by rational on Apr 9, 2008 11:26:27 GMT -5
If a person is making allegations of sexual or physical abuse and a Judge asked you to take a polygraph test to try and make sure you are not making false allegations.... why would not one be willing and gladly take that test to prove their allegations are correct. When you refuse or say you can't do that - to me that shows there is a problem. If you were telling true allegations, wouldn't you want to make sure that the person responsible for your abuse would be punished and if the only way you can show you are not making false allegations is by helping and taking a polygraph test. I understand many people can be so cold and emotionally not care that they can be guilty and still pass the polygraph test. But, it sure is worth a try. Are you aware how a polygraph works? If the person taking the test believes what they are saying they will pass the test regardless of the facts. If the person taking the test is nervous and emotional they may well fail because of nerves of emotional status even when they are telling the truth. Polygraphs are not reliable in establishing the veracity of testimony. Worth a try to whom?
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sarahjane
Junior Member
"Think it'll work? It'd take a miracle. Bye-bye!"
Posts: 117
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Post by sarahjane on Apr 9, 2008 12:23:24 GMT -5
Social worker, Are you serious? I can't tell if you're trying to be funny or are being serious... The best definition of abuse here, is when someone is abusive towards private parts, and seems to enjoy it. No I am serious. We have a 4 month backlog on these type cases. Ok, thanks. I guess I just don't understand. I obviously don't know very much at all about this kind of stuff. This might be a dumb question, but I have to ask... what about that parent or guardian who doesn't enjoy abusing (private parts or whatever else) but thinks it's right so does it anyway? But i guess there is probably a distinction made between sexual abuse and plain physical abuse? So is the bum-bum considered private parts? If so, if someone enjoys spanking their child, does that constitute sexual abuse? I'm so confused. I've heard that a few countries have banned spanking... i wonder for what reasons? thanks, sarahjane
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Post by not funny on Apr 9, 2008 14:10:04 GMT -5
The best definition of abuse here, is when someone is abusive towards private parts, and seems to enjoy it. No I am serious. We have a 4 month backlog on these type cases. Ok, thanks. I guess I just don't understand. I obviously don't know very much at all about this kind of stuff. This might be a dumb question, but I have to ask... what about that parent or guardian who doesn't enjoy abusing (private parts or whatever else) but thinks it's right so does it anyway? But i guess there is probably a distinction made between sexual abuse and plain physical abuse? So is the bum-bum considered private parts? If so, if someone enjoys spanking their child, does that constitute sexual abuse? I'm so confused. I've heard that a few countries have banned spanking... i wonder for what reasons? thanks, sarahjane another form of abuse, is when a guy gets kicked in the private parts, it aint funny, let me tell you! I think they should go to jail for at least 2 years minimum!
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Post by Alexander on Apr 9, 2008 14:32:46 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2008 14:43:00 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence? There are very few countries in the world that allow their legal systems to rely on polygraph evidence.
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Post by polllmasseygrath on Apr 9, 2008 17:19:37 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence? There are very few countries in the world that allow their legal systems to rely on polygraph evidence.
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Post by polllmasseygraph on Apr 9, 2008 17:21:57 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence? There are very few countries in the world that allow their legal systems to rely on polygraph evidence. I'd like to see Edgar take a polygraph. I would stand back just in case the needle snapped off. It might hit me in the eye.
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Post by help on Apr 9, 2008 17:58:56 GMT -5
There are very few countries in the world that allow their legal systems to rely on polygraph evidence. I'd like to see Edgar take a polygraph. I would stand back just in case the needle snapped off. It might hit me in the eye. Are you saying the movie 'Powder' was based on Edgar? ;D
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terry
Senior Member
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Post by terry on Apr 9, 2008 19:10:16 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence? Yes, they are NOT reliable that's why they can't be entered into evidence in a criminal case. A trained person can defreat a lie detector, someone who believes what they are saying--but are mistaken will pass also. And someone who is very emotional will fail. Think about it in this case--Lie detectors measure pulse rate, sweating--emotional responses--so if these girls are asked how where you molested and they have to relive that experience can they do it without emotion? Granted they also couldn't lie about it without emotion-so a lie detector test is worthless
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Post by abusive on Apr 9, 2008 20:27:42 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. I guess I just don't understand. I obviously don't know very much at all about this kind of stuff. This might be a dumb question, but I have to ask... what about that parent or guardian who doesn't enjoy abusing (private parts or whatever else) but thinks it's right so does it anyway? But i guess there is probably a distinction made between sexual abuse and plain physical abuse? So is the bum-bum considered private parts? If so, if someone enjoys spanking their child, does that constitute sexual abuse? I'm so confused. I've heard that a few countries have banned spanking... i wonder for what reasons? thanks, sarahjane another form of abuse, is when a guy gets kicked in the private parts, it aint funny, let me tell you! I think they should go to jail for at least 2 years minimum! It happens all the time around here, abuse like no other kind!!
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Post by Gary on Apr 9, 2008 22:14:32 GMT -5
Lets start at the begging.SEPTEMBER 1st 2007. When two sister workers, talked with the twins & the parents for two hours.This talk was about, abuse only in the home. NOW bear in mind these worker have not been in their home [accusers] but save an hour. Prior to this & have not been since. Now something smells here.There were a floury of events that followed ,there on in. Yes the girls were told they were over 18 yrs old & that they did not have to go back home.This was a good move,on the workers part. However I do have a bit of a problem what happened from there. These girls should have been taken to a shelter. Away from the religion!! AS to avoid pitting friends against friends. Then advised to: take it to the right avenue IE. authorities. taken them to the authorities & tell them of the situation. Leaving it there, that they might continue to minister the GOOD NEWS! However this was not done. On the court dockets" the workers are the complainant the twins are the witnesses." The parents get shunned. Right to this day. Plus the info coming out THE twins are not privy to. Is coming from another source. I wounder were! Peoples names, addresses,past history,etc. so far there has been 20-30 people and counting. This is pitting workers against workers ,friends against friends etc. this is most certainly not KINGDOM MINDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry got ahead of myself. The abuse allegations went went to sexual abuse in NOVEMBER. Does it smell like a scam yet. This looks like a diversion tactic, abuse didn't work,lets try another avenue. This writer believes this is a cover up. To divert another ongoing investigation into the workers in MICHIGAN. As Friend did call into that family,and did worn them,that they were being used as a smoke screen. This will do for now. More to come!! The truth will come out. & I trust it will!!! Scott is right there is more than meets the eye in this situation. SO don't be so quick to jump to conclusions!
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Post by redo on Apr 10, 2008 0:29:19 GMT -5
Lets start at the beginning. SEPTEMBER 1st 2007. When one sister worker,talked with the twins & the parents for two hours.this talk was about abuse,abuse only in the home. [intern she talked to her companion.] NOW bear in mind these workers have not been in their home[accusers]but save an hour.Prior to this & have not since. Now :something smells here. There were a flurry of events that followed , there on in. Yes the girls were told they were 18 yrs old & that they did not have to go back home.This was a good move ,on the workers part . However I do have a bit of a problem what happened from there. these girls should have been taken to a shelter. away from the religion!! AS to avoid pitting friends against friends. Then advise to take it right avenue IE; authorities. taken them to the authorities & tell them of the situation . Leaving it there, that they might continue to minister the WORD OF GOD! However this was not done. On the court docket's workers are the complainants & the twins are the witnesses." The parents get shunned.Right to this day. plus the info coming out THE twins are not privy to. Is coming from other sources. I wounder were![peoples names, addresses,past history.etc. So far to my knowledge there has been 20-30 people and counting. This is pitting w against workers & friends against friends etc. This is most certainly not KINGDOM MINDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry gotten ahead of my self. The abuse allegations became sexual abuse about two months later in NOVEMBER. Does it small like a scam yet. This looks like a diversion tactic, abuse didn't work,lets try another avenue.This writer believes this is a cover up.To divert another ongoing investigation into the workers in MICHIGAN. AS a friend did call into that family, and did worn them,"that they believed they were being used as a smoke screen. This will do for now. More to come!! The truth will come out,& I trust it will!!! Scott is right there is more than meets the eye in this situation. SO don't be so quick to jump to conclusions!
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Post by cheechette on Apr 10, 2008 11:10:33 GMT -5
Geez Gary it is great to know that someone else can smell the skunk. One correction that I know of from your reply. Yes, the sister worker and a few other workers did talk with the twins but not the parents. After all, it is the 2 women workers that took the twins to the police to report the allegations and the parents knew nothing. Yes, the workers did place the twins in a home .... how could you say NO to a worker? You are so right - there is more to come. Come on, who believes everything from the media or even the TV reporter. They are told what they repeat. Ex. - We are in war with Iraq over WMD. How long was that reported by our media before the real facts were told. Hopefully the law enforcement will see through this scheme and justice will be given to whom deserves it.
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Post by sniff sniff on Apr 10, 2008 11:40:05 GMT -5
Geez Gary it is great to know that someone else can smell the skunk. One correction that I know of from your reply. Yes, the sister worker and a few other workers did talk with the twins but not the parents. After all, it is the 2 women workers that took the twins to the police to report the allegations and the parents knew nothing. Yes, the workers did place the twins in a home .... how could you say NO to a worker? You are so right - there is more to come. Come on, who believes everything from the media or even the TV reporter. They are told what they repeat. Ex. - We are in war with Iraq over WMD. How long was that reported by our media before the real facts were told. Hopefully the law enforcement will see through this scheme and justice will be given to whom deserves it. Speaking of skunks, this smells like family of the accused.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2008 11:42:54 GMT -5
cheechette you wrote:
"Hopefully the law enforcement will see through this scheme and justice will be given to whom deserves it. "
That's a pretty strong statement so you must have more than a hunch. What's the real story in your opinion?
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Post by friend1 on Apr 10, 2008 13:10:49 GMT -5
At this point my impression is the workers did the right thing for the situation, i.e. quickly and temporarily move the girls to a safe place.
Also apparently the Child Protective Service got involved, which was probably also the right thing.
The real problem was the rumor mill among the F&W in the area that got out of control.
Pray for the cool heads amongst them that can settle things down.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
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Post by rational on Apr 10, 2008 13:13:17 GMT -5
Rational............. You are saying polygraphs are not reliable? Should they not be used as evidence? What about the innocent and this being the only way to prove their innocence? That is exactly what I am saying. They should not be used. At all. Well, maybe as a party trick. Have fun with your friends. If that is the only way, looks like they are out of luck.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2008 14:20:58 GMT -5
Thanks friend1. If the facts are that the sister workers encountered the alleged victims, heard the accusations of sexual abuse, and then immediately reported it to the authorities, then I agree with you that the sister workers did the right thing. From the workers' point of view, it shouldn't matter if the accusations are true or false, they should report it and let the legal system take over from there. As spiritual ministers, they should then focus on ministering to both the alleged victims and the alleged perpetrators, keeping them focused on what is right and just. They should also caution the friends from making judgements about the case, as everyone is innocent until proven guilty. From my experience, the friends are quick to make judgments(probably just like any group of people) and will tend to either all go one way against one party, or they form camps with different judgments. Either way, judgment making always leads to a mess. At this point my impression is the workers did the right thing for the situation, i.e. quickly and temporarily move the girls to a safe place. Also apparently the Child Protective Service got involved, which was probably also the right thing. The real problem was the rumor mill among the F&W in the area that got out of control. Pray for the cool heads amongst them that can settle things down. Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
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Post by to clearday on Apr 10, 2008 15:08:52 GMT -5
Hi Clearday,
Just read your last post.
Just thought I would point out that there are a great number of so called exers who are very very quick to pass judgement in matters like this. Just think about it for a nana second. How many names come to your mind?
I, for another, have just had about enough of all this abuse and sex threads and posts.
Guess I should turn my machine off.
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Post by heads up on Apr 10, 2008 16:07:34 GMT -5
Hi Clearday, Just read your last post. Just thought I would point out that there are a great number of so called exers who are very very quick to pass judgement in matters like this. Just think about it for a nana second. How many names come to your mind? I, for another, have just had about enough of all this abuse and sex threads and posts. Guess I should turn my machine off. I just checked http://2x2doctrine.proboards104.com./index.cgi?board=opendiscussion No abuse threads, just one FYI from Scott that more people may be looking at their posts.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 10, 2008 18:11:05 GMT -5
Clearday that was a great post, thanks. Friend1, please register! Jesse Thanks friend1. If the facts are that the sister workers encountered the alleged victims, heard the accusations of sexual abuse, and then immediately reported it to the authorities, then I agree with you that the sister workers did the right thing. From the workers' point of view, it shouldn't matter if the accusations are true or false, they should report it and let the legal system take over from there. As spiritual ministers, they should then focus on ministering to both the alleged victims and the alleged perpetrators, keeping them focused on what is right and just. They should also caution the friends from making judgements about the case, as everyone is innocent until proven guilty. From my experience, the friends are quick to make judgments(probably just like any group of people) and will tend to either all go one way against one party, or they form camps with different judgments. Either way, judgment making always leads to a mess. At this point my impression is the workers did the right thing for the situation, i.e. quickly and temporarily move the girls to a safe place. Also apparently the Child Protective Service got involved, which was probably also the right thing. The real problem was the rumor mill among the F&W in the area that got out of control. Pray for the cool heads amongst them that can settle things down. Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
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Post by White Night on Apr 10, 2008 20:46:26 GMT -5
I appreciate the rebuffs, jesters & the twist & turns. But how can anyone correct me when. WE were there Sept. 1st 07. REMEMBER GOD DOES NOT LIE!!!! Plus I am not an exer. Though some may wish me to be. So best back up. I am a defender of the Kingdom. If we walk to gather then lets do so. And cut the bull!! THE TRUTH OF THIS MATTER WILL COME OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter who tries to cover it up!
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