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Post by ilylo on Jul 6, 2009 21:10:39 GMT -5
Some here accused or SAY the overseers are forbidden workers to marry is FALSE. Hey, now we're getting somewhere. What we're saying is that workers cannot get married AND REMAIN IN THE WORK. Can you admit that much, nathan? I guess he can't admit to the truth.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 6, 2009 23:20:39 GMT -5
Sharon I am interested in this. I had heard of a sister worker in California about two years ago getting secretly married but I was unaware of a brother worker as well. What state did this happen in? I never said it was a brother worker..... Scott
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Post by someguy on Jul 6, 2009 23:28:15 GMT -5
Sharon I am interested in this. I had heard of a sister worker in California about two years ago getting secretly married but I was unaware of a brother worker as well. What state did this happen in? I never said it was a brother worker..... Scott Never mind then Scott...I guess I heard the same story as you but I got confused by Sharons comment. Thanks for responding.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 6, 2009 23:30:19 GMT -5
Never mind then Scott...I guess I heard the same story as you but I got confused by Sharons comment. Thanks for responding. You're welcome! Scott
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 2:13:26 GMT -5
It occurs to me something that I've witnessed and I do not think it is right....but the active workers love to throng to the ex-workers homes more so then any other professing persons homes. If they have a choice, that's where they head to all the time. It make a 3 tiered system....workers, ex-workers and lowest of all friends. You know Jesus said the least would be the greatest and so it would seem maybe a considerable number of the friends are going to be ranked above the workers and ex-workers because they've been made the least and they'be done the waiting and the serving! Kind of sad, don't you think? So yes, I can see why Nathan is hanging onto the thing that a worker can get married, he/she isn't allowed active workership, but still gets the favorite place among the active workers....it's been so bad in some places that the ex-worker that is married often seems to be play-acting that they're still in the work...'cept they're just stable in position, home, etc. ~~ Yes, there's a bond between the active workers an ex-workers.... both are called and chosen by God.... both have respect for one another and want to be encouragement to each others in continuning God's work in their lives.
The shepherd's hearts or love for souls don't leave the ex-workers after they've left the work. God doesn't take away the love for souls from the ex-workers hearts.
God doesn't discard his ex-workers just because they are not active in the work. He still can use them wherever they're... bloom wherever God has planted them.
Every memeber even the pinky is important in the body of Christ.Yes, Nathan, this synopsis of the ex-workers' importance is what is offensive to those who have never been workers and have to tolerate the preferential treatment the active workers give the ex-workers. You're right in that the ex-workers are still some sort of "worker" or at least in their own minds and sometimes in the active workers' minds. I think this is harmful to the collective church, esp. when the "homeless and unmarried worker" is held as being the epitome of the faith! Otherwords, "once a worker, always a worker" as far as the preferential treatment from the active workers! Favorites, if you wish....that is really not right, Nathan, however you look at it! Jesus had to set James and John right on the favorite business....that the least would be the greatest...the servant be the master.....otherwords whatever place you've held on earth, you won't get that position in heaven! Otherwords, go for your rewards on earth for it won't be in heaven because you don't just grab your rewards in heaven!
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 2:14:34 GMT -5
Never mind then Scott...I guess I heard the same story as you but I got confused by Sharons comment. Thanks for responding. You're welcome! Scott Thanks, Scott, for correcting the wrong impression...I should have said he/she....eh?
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Post by fred on Jul 7, 2009 2:27:49 GMT -5
I must say, Sharon, in my corner of the world I have never seen preferential treatment given to married ex-workers. In fact I would go as far as to say the opposite may be true. Many of them seem to viewed with some 'sort of pity'........ you know, having put their hand to the plough they turned back.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 7, 2009 6:49:49 GMT -5
I must say, Sharon, in my corner of the world I have never seen preferential treatment given to married ex-workers. In fact I would go as far as to say the opposite may be true. Many of them seem to viewed with some 'sort of pity'........ you know, having put their hand to the plough they turned back. Not in my corner of the world, fred. The respected ones who've created a home for the workers, etc. and often are given Sun. meeting are just one step under the workers the parts of America I've lived in. When the workers are absent from the area--they are who people go to for advice, problems, crisis, a possible convert asking questions, etc. I had an Uncle who was an ex worker and this was certainly the case for him; as well as another couple of workers who married and lived in the area.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 7, 2009 9:50:19 GMT -5
Some here accused or SAY the overseers are forbidden workers to marry is FALSE. Hey, now we're getting somewhere. What we're saying is that workers cannot get married AND REMAIN IN THE WORK. Can you admit that much, nathan? Bump for nathan.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 7, 2009 11:02:32 GMT -5
Some here accused or SAY the overseers are forbidden workers to marry is FALSE. Hey, now we're getting somewhere. What we're saying is that workers cannot get married AND REMAIN IN THE WORK. Can you admit that much, nathan? Bump for nathan.
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H.A.S.
Senior Member
God loves us all. Yes, even you.
Posts: 705
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Post by H.A.S. on Jul 7, 2009 12:36:24 GMT -5
Hey, now we're getting somewhere. What we're saying is that workers cannot get married AND REMAIN IN THE WORK. Can you admit that much, nathan? Bump for nathan. ilylo, Maybe Nathan has you on ignore. Nathan9, What we're saying is that workers cannot get married and remain in the work. Do you agree with that statment?
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 13:28:48 GMT -5
Nathan, I've seen older friends that's been in the truth longer then maybe 3 pair of workers could ever see and they've been passed right over because the workers preferred staying at the "ex-workers" home! I've seen it and I've been a victim of such! So don't tell me it doesn't happen.
I ask a pair of workers the reason for such a thing....you know what they said to me for the reason and I find it pitiful indeed for it doesn't grant a bit of brain cells or compassion to the friends that's never been in the work....the oldest worker told me "It's because they understand what we go through!"
That makes me want to say thing that I'd need to wash my mouth out with soap for! That is an offensive thing to say! That is not granting ANY friends that's not an ex-worker any brain cells or the inborn leading of the Spirit.....they might as well had said, "Well, only workers and ex-workers are going to go to heaven because no one else loves God with all their heart, with all their mind, with all their soul and with all their might NOR do they love their neighbors as themself."
I guarantee you it happens!
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Post by sharon on Jul 7, 2009 16:25:49 GMT -5
Many of the friends are not well off and are sick and maybe old and have little time to enjoy being with those that they love....they shouldn't be passed over for such a flimsy excuse! I'm surprised that more people haven't become offended and left the fellowship because of the preferential treatment....but you know what, what goes around comes around, doesn't it?
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Post by ilylo on Jul 7, 2009 18:11:14 GMT -5
ilylo, Maybe Nathan has you on ignore. Nathan9, What we're saying is that workers cannot get married and remain in the work. Do you agree with that statment? ~~ I have a mix feeling on workers being married in the work with children... NOT a good way to live and raise the children.... by depending on the friends for everything. That can cause a lot of stress for the family and the friends in the field.
But I whole hearted agree and support for having married workers without children in the ministry.As expected, nathan didn't respond to the statement as it was written. The truth is that workers cannot get married and remain in the work. Thus far, Nathan has been unable to admit it.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 7, 2009 21:20:29 GMT -5
Hey, when does part III begin?
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Post by sharon on Jul 8, 2009 2:09:16 GMT -5
WHAT, you may have just started it: I'm surprised my OP started it and Nathan took to II which has lasted a considerable length of time....so who knows, eh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2009 9:34:33 GMT -5
Many of the friends are not well off and are sick and maybe old and have little time to enjoy being with those that they love....they shouldn't be passed over for such a flimsy excuse! I'm surprised that more people haven't become offended and left the fellowship because of the preferential treatment....but you know what, what goes around comes around, doesn't it? The friends shouldn't be in a position where they are feeling left out by worker visits. The friends largely have a real need to become less worker dependent and learn to reach out and establish reliable relationships around them. They need to do this not just amongst the meeting people and friends in the area, but also with neighbours and other people in the community. These are all people who are more reliable than the workers. The workers cannot make good friends no matter how much they want to. They are constantly on the move, it's hard to find them without multiple calls, they are often on special mtg rounds, convention rounds and tours, they are transferred in and out of fields frequently. The current system for workers is a terrible model for friendship or pastoring. The local church needs to do the pastoring, meaning the elders and other caring people. The workers make poor pastors because of the constraints of the system. The friends need to get off their worker-dependency and seek stable reliable relationships elsewhere......they will face much less disappointment and more satisfying helpful friendships.
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Post by What Hat on Jul 8, 2009 10:17:36 GMT -5
WHAT, you may have just started it: I'm surprised my OP started it and Nathan took to II which has lasted a considerable length of time....so who knows, eh? Oh yeah, sharon, take all the credit. On the other hand, are you sure you want it? ;D
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Post by JO on Jul 8, 2009 14:58:06 GMT -5
~~ Marriage is very honorable calling. Let no man put it assunder what God has joined. I agree Nathan: Marriage is a very honorable calling. Also, ministry is a very honorable calling. In the bible they were not mutually exclusive. In our church they are. What if people are called to both marrriage and ministry?
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Post by freespirit on Jul 8, 2009 23:08:04 GMT -5
~~~ What do you when married workers have children? How and where should they live? 2 Thessalonians 3 6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2009 23:16:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't get involved with someone else's raising of children.....it doesn't work well.
I would suggest a house. What ideas do you have?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 8, 2009 23:49:09 GMT -5
These days there are many ways to avoid having children...that shouldn't be much of a problem or an issue...
Perhaps it could be understood that if the married worker couple has children--they are automatically out of the work?
Or as an alternative, they could reside in one place like Dave & Emily Christie did in Hawaii with their 2 children.
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Post by JO on Jul 8, 2009 23:56:10 GMT -5
I agree Nathan: Marriage is a very honorable calling. Also, ministry is a very honorable calling. In the bible they were not mutually exclusive. In our church they are. What if people are called to both marrriage and ministry? ~~~ What do you when married workers have children? How and where should they live?How do you think this was taken care of in bible days?
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Post by JO on Jul 9, 2009 1:23:53 GMT -5
How do you think this was taken care of in bible days? ~~ Well, in the Bible days I didn't read any married apostles had children with them.
If you were married workers with 3 children how would you go about it?There is more to ministry than going from house to house.
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Post by sharon on Jul 9, 2009 7:35:32 GMT -5
I agree Nathan: Marriage is a very honorable calling. Also, ministry is a very honorable calling. In the bible they were not mutually exclusive. In our church they are. What if people are called to both marrriage and ministry? ~~~ What do you when married workers have children? How and where should they live?Nathan, you do voice a very valid concern esp. for today's workers....however the Biblical evangelistic folks and even the beginning workers did not travel everyday to different homes...they obtained a "mission" and they stayed in a batch and often went there for at least 2 yrs. back to back and this would not have been very antagonistic for young children....yes, the workers have to go to convs. etc. but that wouldn't preclude their families staying to home, would it? There are many different kind of working men and women that have to travel and be away from home for extended periods of time and their children don't suffer too much, now do they? And yes, I know that's against being a worker...they need to be free to travel and travel they do....I cannot think that this is healthy for their mental state.....no wonder we can't keep workers.....not many are born gypsies, able to be content to get up and go every day....be in a different spot every night? I feel for the workers of today! Though many of them do learn to be content with such a life style...and I've noticed even those who leave the work a lot of them cannot settle down and not have to do a lot of travelling!
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 9, 2009 10:05:53 GMT -5
Some have left the meetings and all hope of a relationship with God or fellowship altogether. Their lives take a nosedive into sin, confusion and hopelessness. They could not live the life expected of them and the future offered no hope. Because the “Truth” was viewed as the only Way, why continue the pain? Life was viewed as hopeless.Pretty much sums up where I once was spiritually..... Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 9, 2009 10:27:42 GMT -5
~~ I agree those who believe their lives in the "Truth" were living in pains, suffering, mistreated, no joy, and hopeless they shouldn't continue in it... WHY? would anyone wants to live such a life and serve God without JOY.I wasn't really 'in pain', I wasn't really 'suffering', I wasn't really 'mistreated'...etc. My problem was I couldn't live as a hypocrite. I was expected to live this certain way and I wasn't doing it. Therefore I was a hypocrite. I was a 'Sunday morning professing person' and living a 'worldly' live the rest of the week. I had heard how bad this was and so I figured I should leave. I spoke to a worker who agreed with me and away I went from meetings. I knew a lot of those people who were just like I was, but didn't mind being hypocrites. However, majority of the friends and workers don't feel or have the same terrible experiences but total opposite than those who left. I actually think there are a LOT of people who are in the same boat as I was who just keep on living a hypocritical life. So what should we do?Have a potluck and talk about it? ? Scott
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 9, 2009 10:48:56 GMT -5
~~ I really appreciate the TMB where both sides can come together and share our experiences, relationship with God, discussing doctrinal topics, issues without attacking each others. I still think you should organize a potluck and talk about it..... I'll show up and eat a bunch of food, nod my head on occasion as if I am agreeing with what someone says (hard to talk with a mouth full) and then meander on out to my motorcycle and leave...... Scott
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