|
Post by Sweetie on May 18, 2008 5:46:59 GMT -5
The workers give lots of advice on useless stuff such as the length of our hair, and the length of our skirts, (or whether we have skirts! ;D) but they are silent on some important issues. What about contraception? I have never heard anything, and I wonder has anyone else?
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 18, 2008 6:36:24 GMT -5
I've also noticed a distinct lack of advice about a whole list of matters in addition to contraception. Some of those include: *Temperature of the water that a bath should be run at. *Whether to choose a diesel or pertol car *best colour for tablecloths *incandescent versus fluorescent light bulbs * 12 or 24 hour clock * Types of curtainrails to use * asprin or panadol?
|
|
|
Post by personal on May 18, 2008 11:27:22 GMT -5
contraception is a personal matter and nobody's business.
|
|
|
Post by gill on May 18, 2008 12:12:13 GMT -5
I've also noticed a distinct lack of advice about a whole list of matters in addition to contraception. Some of those include: *Temperature of the water that a bath should be run at. *Whether to choose a diesel or pertol car *best colour for tablecloths *incandescent versus fluorescent light bulbs * 12 or 24 hour clock * Types of curtainrails to use * asprin or panadol? With respect Aileen, your frivolous points hardly enter the realms of "important" and only serve to belittle the poster’s question. Well done. Sweetie, I understand what you are saying and in fact, although I think the workers are not pro-contraception, I think they are reluctant to address issues of such an intimate nature. My feeling that they are not pro-contraception comes from a comment made by a senior brother worker to my husband when he mentioned in bewildered tones, that the friends were not having such large families as the previous generations. My husband's mouth fell open in astonishment when he realised the worker was in earnest - either he had never heard of contraception or he didn't think the friends would use it. It's only in recent times that there has been mention made of fornication and of course the word "fornication" is used as it almost seems that to use the phrase in common parlance "sex before marriage" brings the whole issue to an uncomfortable, "icky" sort of level. And of course, the teenager with raging hormones is the least likely to understand the archaic terminology and the most likely to fornicate! Personal, there are those that believe that each child is a gift from God and such be treasured as such, and that God would not bestow such a gift if He wasn’t sure the child would be welcomed and loved. Of course there are countless examples proving otherwise but if the family into which the child was born was one of God’s chosen, then presumably the argument holds. For me? It’s between God, me and my husband.
|
|
|
Post by Pamela on May 18, 2008 13:24:42 GMT -5
The workers give lots of advice on useless stuff such as the length of our hair, and the length of our skirts, (or whether we have skirts! ;D) but they are silent on some important issues. What about contraception? I have never heard anything, and I wonder has anyone else? and....what would they know from their experience about this subject??? Thank God that they don't go down the line of giving opinions about such a personal subject. That's all we need at convention to finally #######us off. If you need advice ask your mum or a young married woman professing or not won't matter.
|
|
|
Post by sadly lacking on May 18, 2008 13:29:54 GMT -5
I've also noticed a distinct lack of advice about a whole list of matters in addition to contraception. Some of those include: *Temperature of the water that a bath should be run at. *Whether to choose a diesel or pertol car *best colour for tablecloths *incandescent versus fluorescent light bulbs * 12 or 24 hour clock * Types of curtainrails to use * asprin or panadol? Is that all? AHHH Poor, Pathetic Aileen. Pray for her or offer up a rosary!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2008 15:34:24 GMT -5
aileen, this is a much more critical issue than any of those which you listed. For those of you honestly considering this issue, be aware that some forms of so-called "contraception", particularly hormonal-based (e.g. pills), can cause the death of an already fertilized embryo. Fertilization is still possible while using hormonal contraceptives and the hormone can cause the death of the embryo because the it causes the uterus to be unsuitable for implantation. Those who do not object to abortion find no problem with this, but most are not informed.
|
|
|
Post by Perfect on May 18, 2008 16:01:23 GMT -5
I actually found Aileen's response very funny.
I'd have struggled to come up with something better
|
|
|
Post by Guessed or on May 19, 2008 12:52:18 GMT -5
I actually found Aileen's response very funny. I'd have struggled to come up with something better I would have thought the struggle would have been to come up with something worse. There was no comic or extraordinary imagination. As mentioned above, it undermines genuine attempts to have meaningful discussions on the board. Guest, I didn't know about the different forms of contraception. I suppose condoms are the only practical solution? That's another thing, the workers have not mentioned abortion and while they probably think that most would understand it amounts to murder, they must realise that a great many do not understand that sex before marriage is wrong too. In these "fast" times, the message must be made plain enough for the thickest to understand and use modern English, not the old fashioned language that most young people don't understand. After that, it is up to even the thickest to make informed choices.
|
|
|
Post by Perfect on May 19, 2008 13:53:16 GMT -5
Guessed I found it witty and it did make the point perfectly. (This is something you may wish to strive for in your writing.) The point being of course (since you may have missed it) is why on earth would anyone seek advice from workers on the matter of contraception? Or indeed why would anyone expect workers to offer advice on this issue any more than on any other trivial matter. It would appear to me that such issues are matters of personal choice and not something with which workers should be involved? I mean contraception is not exactly something you'd expect workers to have much experience of - or is it? Despite your protestations regarding the previous post, your own contribution can hardly be said to contribute to meaningful debate. In fact it comes across as rather ignorant and causes me to doubt whether you are in fact capable of meaningful debate. However I'd be interested to learn on what basis you deem sex before marriage to be wrong anyway - have you tried it? That may well be your personal view of sex befoe marriage but it is my view that your view is largely irrelevant to anyone else on such matters. In the same way that your favourite colur is also largely irrelevant to the rest of us. Well at least here's an opportunity to contribute to meaningful debate and prove to the rest of us that you don't number yourself among the 'thickest'! And I've also provided a link below where you can find out more about contraception in the absence of advice from any workers. www.brook.org.uk/content/
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 19, 2008 15:35:16 GMT -5
I don't find abortion at all objectionable as a means of avoiding overpopulation.
Its not often discussed, but I don't think many of us see it as a wrong thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2008 15:46:40 GMT -5
I don't find abortion at all objectionable as a means of avoiding overpopulation. Shooting under performing school children in the back of the head is much easier and only costs one bullet... Why kill babies when you can kill dumb kids instead?
|
|
|
Post by gem unlogged on May 19, 2008 17:34:53 GMT -5
It made me absolutely sick to my stomach when I read the remark about "Shooting under performing school children in the back of the head is much easier and only costs one bullet. I have a much loved niece who is Downs Syndrome =I find this remark sickening and not funny at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2008 18:03:49 GMT -5
It made me absolutely sick to my stomach when I read the remark about "Shooting under performing school children in the back of the head is much easier and only costs one bullet. I have a much loved niece who is Downs Syndrome = I find this remark sickening and not funny at all. Funny.... You express the same feelings I had at the suggestion we should murder unborn babies to avoid overpopulation. Tell me, what's the moral difference between killing an unborn child and killing a child already born?
|
|
|
Post by degem on May 19, 2008 18:23:46 GMT -5
I don't think river that there is any moral difference between killing an unborn child and killing a child already born.And for aileen to make a remark that she doesn't "find abortion at all objectionable as a means for avoiding overpopulation"and she "don't think many of us see it as a wrong thing." Well this woman sees it as a WRONG and very COLD HEARTED and VERY SICKENING method of controlling overpopulation by using abortion. That remark makes me very sick to my stomach. You and I , river, are on the same wave length here. Sincerely
Gem
|
|
|
Post by gratefulforgrace on May 19, 2008 23:53:35 GMT -5
To anyone who thinks that this is a trivial issue, please re-read reply #6 by "guest". This is important.
Aileen, abortion is murder. I hope you weren't serious, but if you were joking, I hope you come to understand it's not something to joke about.
|
|
|
Post by juliette on May 20, 2008 0:54:41 GMT -5
Duane Hopkins addressed contraception in a "young people's meeting" in MN in the 80's. It was in response to a question (part of the meeting format was that you could write down a question, and he would read it and answer). He said that all he would say on the matter was that in his opinion, getting married w/o intending to have children was selfish. He didn't address contraception beyond that point.
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 20, 2008 6:34:25 GMT -5
"Aileen, abortion is murder. I hope you weren't serious, but if you were joking, I hope you come to understand it's not something to joke about. "
I was not joking, I agree its not something to joke about.
Abortion is legal, and in my opinion practical, eithical, sensible and moral, provided done within the current UK legislation covering it.
I recognise that this is not a popular view in this forum, but I am not one to just state what I think others want to hear, rather to state my own view and clearly.
Overpopulation is perhaps the worlds greatest problem, and most other problems result from it. A high proportion of pregnancies are unplanned and unwanted, and result in many cases from ignorance about contraception.
I do not think that abortion should be used as a primary means of "contraception" (It isn't contraception, conception has already occurred), but as means to prevent bringing a child to term where its unwanted, unloved, underprivileged, undernourished, etc.
I do not equate abortion as murder any more than euthanasia is.
I do not expect anyone here to agree with that view, but do recognise that in many countries it is the majority view - thats how it becomes law and legal.
|
|
|
Post by HT on May 20, 2008 7:31:02 GMT -5
Aileen have you never heard of ADOPTION? Abortion is for people who are selfish and usually want to hide the fact they were ever pregnant.
I do not think you are an honest poster. You are probably a worker who just wants to have some fun here. Go ahead, we all know who you are.
Go watch your TV with the workers and then after the show, they can carry you down to the clinic. Then afterwards you can go to your gospel meetings that is filled, full house, with your non professing neighbors and co-workers who are all anxiously awaiting to hear about the only way to get to heaven.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by HT on May 20, 2008 7:36:26 GMT -5
Aileen you think this board is a joke and therefore you treat every question and idea presented here as a joke and answer forthwith.
You even try to give credibility to your posts by responding to them under an alias, such as "I think Aileens post was funny, yada, yada, yada.
No one believes you and we all know who you are. You are not credible and are playing games.
|
|
|
Post by degem on May 20, 2008 10:38:02 GMT -5
Even though I strongly disagree with Aileen's viewpoint(s) on this thread, she has a right to express her opinions just like anyone else.
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 20, 2008 11:31:51 GMT -5
HT (or some anonymous unidentified person using those initials for this post) said...
"No one believes you and we all know who you are. You are not credible and are playing games."
You speak for "Everyone"?
Just who do you say that I am then? If I'm not me, who am I?
I'm not playing a game. Are you?
|
|
|
Post by Guessed or on May 20, 2008 12:59:08 GMT -5
Guessed I found it witty and it did make the point perfectly. (This is something you may wish to strive for in your writing.) I have no wish to strive for any such thing. You found Aileen funny, I did not. I'll steer clear of cack-handed efforts to be funny when not everyone appreciates it and it distracts from the serious question being asked.The point being of course (since you may have missed it)... No, I did not miss it. Sweetie made the point clearly. ...is why on earth would anyone seek advice from workers on the matter of contraception? I didn't say they should. Or indeed why would anyone expect workers to offer advice on this issue any more than on any other trivial matter. Your question, you answer it. It would appear to me that such issues are matters of personal choice and not something with which workers should be involved? I mean contraception is not exactly something you'd expect workers to have much experience of - or is it? Again your question, you answer it.Despite your protestations regarding the previous post, your own contribution can hardly be said to contribute to meaningful debate. In fact it comes across as rather ignorant and causes me to doubt whether you are in fact capable of meaningful debate. If you re-read my post you will see I admitted I hadn't known something and then asked a question. Hardly the writings of someone attempting to debate an issue - this I believe addresses your claim of my ignorance and also that as to whether I'mn capable of meaningful debate.However I'd be interested to learn on what basis you deem sex before marriage to be wrong anyway - have you tried it? That may well be your personal view of sex befoe marriage but it is my view that your view is largely irrelevant to anyone else on such matters. Workers repeatedly say that fornication is wrong. I believe they base this on their interpretation of the Bible. I am quite happy to accept that interpretation. In the same way that your favourite colur is also largely irrelevant to the rest of us. Well at least here's an opportunity to contribute to meaningful debate and prove to the rest of us that you don't number yourself among the 'thickest'! And I've also provided a link below where you can find out more about contraception in the absence of advice from any workers. www.brook.org.uk/content/I'm not certain anyone here really cares where I register on an IQ scale. I'm not certain I care where you register but I'm betting it's not as high as you hope. You have a few issues with basic comprehension as my answers above illustrate. And any more than my opinion is not relevant on these boards, neither is yours.
Why the very personal verbal battering? I was not aware I had offended you in any way other than to call into question what you found funny and that I did not.
|
|
|
Post by HT on May 20, 2008 19:57:23 GMT -5
HT (or some anonymous unidentified person using those initials for this post) said... "No one believes you and we all know who you are. You are not credible and are playing games."You speak for "Everyone"? Just who do you say that I am then? If I'm not me, who am I? I'm not playing a game. Are you? aileen (or some anonymous unidentified person using that name for his posts: Yes, I speak for everyone. We all know those on your team are simply you posting anonymously. Yes, we know who you are. No, I am not playing a game.
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 21, 2008 1:32:19 GMT -5
HT: seems you are playing a game. A game of make a statement then don't back it up.
repeated: Just who do you say that I am then? If I'm not me, who am I?
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 21, 2008 1:36:32 GMT -5
Back to the topic:
The UK parliament debated the abortion issue at length over the last 2 days and eventually agreed by a significant majority to retain the status quo.
That is that abortion is legal until the 24 week term.
Interestingly while there was a significant body of opinion that it should be reduced to 20 or even 12 weeks, there was little push for total abolition.
|
|
|
Post by gratefulforgrace on May 21, 2008 1:40:20 GMT -5
Aileen: Here are the verses in the Bible that tell me abortion is murder. Especially the ones in bold.
Job 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?
Eccl 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Isa 49:5 ¶And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Jer 20:17 Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
|
|
|
Post by aileen on May 21, 2008 1:43:30 GMT -5
Thats your interpretation, to which you are perfectly entitled to have and to air. But not everyone shares your view.
|
|