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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 24, 2008 7:36:11 GMT -5
Please share your thoughts anytime Sunday or Monday, February 24 or 25! (or later if you have some then!) I hope we will all get a lot out of this. I KNOW I will if some of you are willing to share your thoughts with ME! M.
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Post by IllinoisGal on Feb 24, 2008 15:50:08 GMT -5
...Hey Ran...I posted while you were gone. Nana Nana boo boo
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 24, 2008 16:54:35 GMT -5
Well read the chapters, Ran! You can find any number of Bibles online...any version I would imagine. Come back and post IG! I don't wanna do this by meself! M.
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tulip2
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by tulip2 on Feb 24, 2008 20:31:54 GMT -5
Loving reading this. Discovered it was written sometime after AD70. Matthew the tax collector would have been an old man. He was going by memory (and possibly Mark's gospel which was already written). Being an organised tax collector sort of guy, maybe Matthew kept personal notes from his time with Jesus?
Whatever, he grouped events from Jesus' life into relevant contexts so we should try to discover the reasons behind Matthew's groupings of events. What lessons does he want us to learn from the way he's organized his account of Jesus' life?
The theme is Jesus as King. The fulfillment of OT prophecy. King of the Jews and King of our lives.
Enjoyed the bit about the Magi worshipping Jesus:
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
Inspiration to do the same. To bow down before God and worship Jesus, King of our lives. And bring him gifts. The gift of our lives and our time and energy and skills. Bowing deply before him.
There's some great songs of worship, here's one. Hope we're all inspired to worship him as King from this study:
I bow my knee before Your throne I know my life is not my own I offer up this song of praise To bring You pleasure Lord
Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Glory to the King
I seek the Giver not the gifts My heart's desire, is to lift you up High above all earthly kings To bring you pleasure Lord.
("I Bow My Knee Before Your Throne", Bonnie Deuschle c.1990, Integrity's Hosanna! Music)
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 25, 2008 5:22:05 GMT -5
tulip...Hey! and YAY! ;D I haven't read the verses yet as I have been really ill the last day or so, but I am going to do so now in a nice quiet house...all are sleeping...I just woke up a bit under an hour ago. (Why I shared that, I have no idea...I'm annoying like that in real life, too....every last detail MUST be told.... ;D ) Anyway...I loved your thoughts and will be reminded of them as I read the verses....I'm so glad you decided to pop in! Thanks for the backround on Matthew, too....I need all the help I can get! Will do my reading and think on it a bit and be back..... PS...Again, this study is just beginning, so if anyone has any thoughts on how things should go here, PLEASE feel free to post them in the thread Admin stickied for us above.... Mich
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 25, 2008 6:59:36 GMT -5
Will modify this and add more later...going to lay back down for a while in a minute. Tulip, my study Bible mentions 70AD as well, but says that Matthew was written sometime BEFORE 70AD, before the destruction of Jerusalem. Hmm....odd! I have to admit that I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, as I am really looking forward to reading the next chapters...Sermon on the Mount again...but there was some really good stuff in these too. I enjoyed thinking about how obedient the early Christians seemed to be compared to many of us nowdays. I wonder why that is? Perhaps because the culture was a lot different back then and some of them actually HEARD God's voice speaking to them...or, as we see here in these chapters many times, have angels of the Lord appear to them in dreams.....but they just.....listened! I have been watching these BIble DVDs as some of you may have heard me mention....and Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Jeremiah, Paul, Peter.....some of them protested a *little* bit at first...but for the most part they just obeyed God! We have lots of examples of that here in these few chapters...The Magi didn't go back and tell Herod where Jesus was because they were warned in a dream....he was the King...a very powerful man....and they would have probably been afraid of him...BUT ...they heeded the dream...they knew what was most important. Joseph listened to the angel of the Lord, seemingly without even thinking of resisting, many times in these chapters....he married Mary because of a dream, went with Mary and Jesus in the middle of the to Egypt because of his dream....he went back to Galilee because of the angel of the Lord speaking to him yet again. It was a good reminder to me of obedience....not questioning God when he speaks to our hearts....just doing it! How difficult would it have been for Joseph to believe (since it had never happened before!) in the immaculate conception...but he just believed. It would be nice for me to work toward that level of obedience! Now, I have no idea if this is correct or not, but I enjoyed reading about the gifts of the Magi in my study Bible. This Bible says that, in the ancient East, one always brought a gift to one's superior...which is why the Magi brought gifts to Jesus....and that the gifts may have been symbolic in the following ways: (Please forgive me if this is either 1/completely wrong or 2/totally obvious already! I have been away from scripture for too long before the last few months and I don't remember a lot of what may be basic knowledge for some!!!) Gold...could represent Christ's deity..purety or royalty Incense...could have represented priestly worship Myrrh...was used for embalming and could have signified Christ's coming sacrifice and his death for us. Interesting, anyway! I enjoyed reading about John the Baptist in the 3rd chapter, too....the way he was fully aware that he wasn't worthy to even carry Jesus' sandals, let alone baptise him....and also Jesus in this chapter....we know he was perfect, but it really struck me that here is God's SON....who would have every right/reason for pride or feeling above the rest....but he never did. He wanted John to baptise him even though John didn't feel worthy to do so. He lowered himself to the same place as the rest who were being baptised. And...as my Bible mentions, we see all 3 parts of the Godhead here....Jesus, the son....the spirit coming down from heaven and God the father...."This is my son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased." I remember hearing this in meeting often, but it's still true, IMO....how wonderful would it be to live our lives in such a way that we can hear that one day....that GOD, Himself, would actually be well pleased with us! It's something to work toward for sure... Anyway, off to lie down again...just some thoughts I had....please share more of yours! Mich
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Post by ranman77007 on Feb 25, 2008 18:23:16 GMT -5
nope, can't study without the Spirit present. sorry. But a warning to those that are willing for this bible study, and unwilling for another bible study that we all know about.
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Post by ranman77007 on Feb 25, 2008 19:08:39 GMT -5
actually, i don't know what to think. having a bible study here i know would have used to be not right, but they are good chapters....
i just don't know... its a replacement for regular wed. bible study, and i know thats not good. but its not like i am going to wed. nite study....
why does everything make me wanna pull my hair out? does every little thing have to cause so much stress? i am supposed to feel bad for everything i do anymore. well i am sick of it. sick sick sick.
and i don't wanna hurt wannabee's feelings, but supposedly this is a very serious issue, with eternal ramifications...
see why i need a shot of tequila? do i have one? nooooooo...
*sigh grrr"
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 25, 2008 19:27:49 GMT -5
Howdy, Way back when I first started reading the bible, I was fascinated to try to find record of Jesus' family tree in the old testament. I found it really interesting to find women of ill repute, and some everyday normal type people there. His family history is pretty much like a lot of families. Lots of variety. Also I always found it interesting that it followed the lineage by saying ..'the father of' right up to: 16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.We all know that Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus, and yet Joseph's linage is shown up to the birth of Jesus. I also was struck by one simple sentence that means a lot to me in Matthew 3. 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
It pretty much says it like it is in regards to how we should live our lives once we have come to believe in Jesus, have repented of our past sins and been born again. That one sentence to me gives meaning to the whole Idea behind repentance and living our lives under grace. If we have truly repented, we can't help but bring forth good fruit. It is only if we hold onto sin that our fruit will be lacking, and we can only do that if we are not following the greatest commandment of all which is love. Well it's time for me to head off to my Monday night mens bible study..... This bible study is a great idea Michelle, and I will make an effort to contribute to it. Scott
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Post by degem on Feb 25, 2008 19:58:47 GMT -5
Hope you are feeling better Michelle! I will give it a try reading these chapters. Don't know if I will have much to add but I will give it a try. Post as soon as possible. Gem
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tulip2
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by tulip2 on Feb 25, 2008 20:35:08 GMT -5
Tulip, my study Bible mentions 70AD as well, but says that Matthew was written sometime BEFORE 70AD, before the destruction of Jerusalem. Hmm....odd! Yes I found a similar statement. Here is what Wikipedia has to say: There is little in the gospel itself to indicate with clarity the date of its composition. The majority of scholars date the gospel between the years 70 and 100. The writings of Ignatius show "a strong case ... for [his] knowledge of four Pauline epistles and the Gospel of Matthew", which gives a terminus ad quem of c. 110. Scholars cite multiple reasons to support this range, such as the time required for the theological views to develop between Mark and Matthew (assuming Markan priority), references to historic figures and events circa 70, and a later social context. Some significant conservative scholars argue for a pre-70 date.
A minority of Christian scholars argue for an even earlier date, as seen in the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia: "Catholic critics, in general, favor the years 40–45..."Are there any historians here who might have some interesting views?
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tulip2
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by tulip2 on Feb 25, 2008 20:39:06 GMT -5
I enjoyed thinking about how obedient the early Christians seemed to be compared to many of us nowdays. I wonder why that is? Perhaps because the culture was a lot different back then and some of them actually HEARD God's voice speaking to them...or, as we see here in these chapters many times, have angels of the Lord appear to them in dreams.....but they just.....listened! I have been watching these BIble DVDs as some of you may have heard me mention....and Abraham, Joseph, Jacob, Jeremiah, Paul, Peter.....some of them protested a *little* bit at first...but for the most part they just obeyed God! We have lots of examples of that here in these few chapters...The Magi didn't go back and tell Herod where Jesus was because they were warned in a dream....he was the King...a very powerful man....and they would have probably been afraid of him...BUT ...they heeded the dream...they knew what was most important. Joseph listened to the angel of the Lord, seemingly without even thinking of resisting, many times in these chapters....he married Mary because of a dream, went with Mary and Jesus in the middle of the to Egypt because of his dream....he went back to Galilee because of the angel of the Lord speaking to him yet again. It was a good reminder to me of obedience....not questioning God when he speaks to our hearts....just doing it! How difficult would it have been for Joseph to believe (since it had never happened before!) in the immaculate conception...but he just believed. It would be nice for me to work toward that level of obedience! I agree, impressive obedience. I'm going to pay more notice to my dreams from now on.. (dreamt of a scary worker the other night, I'd post it on the scary workers thread but I'm too scared!)
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tulip2
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by tulip2 on Feb 25, 2008 20:40:17 GMT -5
We all know that Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus, and yet Joseph's linage is shown up to the birth of Jesus. Scott why was that?
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Post by degem on Feb 25, 2008 20:48:08 GMT -5
Between my Wednesday night bible study and reading these
chapters I hope I have a better understanding of the Bible.
Good night everyone Gem
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Post by C C RYDER on Feb 25, 2008 21:19:49 GMT -5
I enjoyed this, thanks Michelle. Thanks for the link to the NIV, I have never read anything other than the KJV, and it has been awhile even reading the KJV.
Wonder what it was like being in Joseph's shoes? I enjoy that he obeyed what the angel of the lord commanded.
I love the end of chapter 3.....And a voice from heaven said,"This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Thanks again M.
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Post by Trouble Maker on Feb 25, 2008 21:32:16 GMT -5
Now,.....does anyone have a Hymn they would like to sing in closing the meeting?
LOL
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 25, 2008 22:19:42 GMT -5
I agree, Scott, I really liked the verse about the fruit too.... Chapter 3:10 of the NIV says: "Every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire," and then later it mentions that Jesus will baptise with the Holy Spirit and with fire.... v. 12: "He will gather his wheat into the barn and burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Hmmmmm. Looks like I don't wanna be the chaff!!! Thank you everyone, again, for your thoughts....I truly appreciate them! M.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Feb 25, 2008 22:24:35 GMT -5
Tulip, my study Bible mentions 70AD as well, but says that Matthew was written sometime BEFORE 70AD, before the destruction of Jerusalem. Hmm....odd! Yes I found a similar statement. Here is what Wikipedia has to say: There is little in the gospel itself to indicate with clarity the date of its composition. The majority of scholars date the gospel between the years 70 and 100. The writings of Ignatius show "a strong case ... for [his] knowledge of four Pauline epistles and the Gospel of Matthew", which gives a terminus ad quem of c. 110. Scholars cite multiple reasons to support this range, such as the time required for the theological views to develop between Mark and Matthew (assuming Markan priority), references to historic figures and events circa 70, and a later social context. Some significant conservative scholars argue for a pre-70 date.
A minority of Christian scholars argue for an even earlier date, as seen in the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia: "Catholic critics, in general, favor the years 40–45..."Are there any historians here who might have some interesting views? " Hmmmmm so it seems most think it is after 70AD...ok! Believe me, I have no idea.....so good to see/hear other views...thanks! M.
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Post by arpeggi on Mar 1, 2008 9:55:57 GMT -5
I think this is a great idea to have these threads. So often more time is spent talking about the bible than actually reading what it says. Satan will try anything to keep us away from God's word. Much blood has been shed over the centuries in regard to the scriptures, many times has the text been twisted but I think Satan's most effective weapon is indifference. It's like a silent atom bomb. Sheer genius.
Heres some of my views, hope you find them helpful. The Gospel according to Matthew was primarily written for a Jewish audience. All the Gospel writers had a target audience and a theme, for example John's theme was Jesus the Son of God. Matthews theme is Jesus king of the Jews. A good example of this (of which there are many others) is that in the old testament even writing God's name was sacred. In our translations today a lot of the OT says thing like THE LORD our God. THE LORD/JEHOVAH (and a few other names) are a substitute for God's real name. In the other gospels we see terms like the Kingdom of God, not so in Matthew. Not wishing to offend the sensitivities of his Jewish audience he writes the kingdom of heaven.
The nativity scene isn't quite how we imagine it. In biblical times they didn't have barns or stables. In winter the animals would be sheltered in caves dug out from the side of the hills for the purpose of burying someone later. A tomb. Someone would put in some cloth so when the body was taken to the tomb they had something to wrap the body in. So our Lord was born in a tomb and wrapped in burial clothes. Highly symbolic.
That same night the shepherds came and worshiped Jesus. Many many months (up to two years later) the magi turned up. Nowhere does it say that there are three of them or that they where kings. They came from the east. How did these foreigners know when Jesus was to be born? They are called magi which means wise men, or more specifically astrologers. The only place in the old testament that predicts exactly when Jesus was to be born is found in Daniel. Daniel is associated with the astrologers (Daniel 1:19-20; 2:12-13, 47; 4:7-9; 5:11-12). When Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream he made him head of all the astrologers. Daniel wrote his book while in captivity in Babylon and many centuries later these magi read Daniel chap9 and the 70weeks passage and correctly deciphered its meaning. Then there's the `star` that directed them west. Obviously they went to the capital first, Jerusalem, believing the king to be there and in doing so caused quite a political storm!
This in no way validates astrology as some people seem to think.
Hope some of you found this interesting.
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