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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 7, 2007 8:07:19 GMT -5
interesting. i just don't know what to think about the truth sometimes, especially after reading a story like that. i also know that the Spirit of God has been spoken from that platform, whether convention, special meeting, or gospel meeting. but stories like this do have an effect on me.
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shushy
Royal Member
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Post by shushy on Aug 8, 2007 7:12:30 GMT -5
I shudder when I hear these stories for this reason. Any person who teaches the word of God, will one day be accountable to God for what they taught. Its frightening when I think of the casualties of religion not just from the meetings either. People who have believed their leaders and been decieved and lead astray and conned and brainwashed. For years, some most of their lives. People who truly want to love God and serve him but are bound up in the religion they were raised in. People who haven't known freedom who need to be set free, and cant because of what they have been taught. Erronious teaching. Heretical teaching. If you want freedom its going to cost you. Its painful. Its worth it. Dont let man dictate to you what you should do or how you should think. Jesus Came to set you free not to bind you up. Not to control you or manipulate you but love you,help you, heal you, deliever you from the clutches and chains that beset your life. He is our deliverer, the lover of our soul. The healer of the bretheren. Our Saviour, King, Lord. Worry about what he thinks not what man thinks or says. Shushy
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 20, 2007 10:59:40 GMT -5
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Sept 22, 2007 13:07:07 GMT -5
RA I feel for you and how painful that meeting must have been. I am grateful that I was weaned out of the meetings by the fact I just slowly stopped going. Then I am ever so grateful for being led to another place where I feel challenged, loved, and closer to god. Saved by your story brought tears to my eyes. I am so glad you have found the true well of JOY Dennis I really appreciate your candor and willingness to tell your story and that you post your info so that hurting people can reach you May God continue to bless your efforts. Hugs to you and your wife
Blessings, Misty
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arlis
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Post by arlis on Oct 5, 2007 0:37:49 GMT -5
Cherie, That was VERY interesting reading, having been in the work in North Dakota, and knowing many of the people involved. It was very saddening to read of the part some played. I never knew Rupert, but certainly heard his name! Kenneth Olson used to blast Rupert McHenry...wow, that name was synonymous with the devil. How interesting to read the actual account! And oh, we were told that people like them were committing the only unforgivable sin...that of claiming that the work of the holy spirit is the work of the devil. Maybe, just maybe, if anyone was committing that sin, it was the workers involved? Dare I say that??
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Post by oncewas on Oct 9, 2007 11:48:05 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for making this available. When I professed (1987) I was warned about these "crazy" men who would picket. I never saw them at Gilroy, but I remember them being spotted at a special meeting I attended in Arizona. Being new, I was carefully kept away from these people, but I was really curious as to what they could possibly say that would be considered so crazy and dangerous. Now I know! And I can appreciate what they tried to do. Raechel
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Brenda
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Post by Brenda on Oct 26, 2007 22:13:51 GMT -5
I remember an older man at Santee in San Diego picketing and at the time we all thought he was some crazy dude-- this would have been very early 80's
Now I know the signs he was holding up where only telling the truth--- I will read about their backrounds Cherie-- thanks for the link
From reading your link it sounds like it was Claude-- definately sounds like the same signs-- I wish I had listened then and saved myself a lot of misery
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julio
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Post by julio on Dec 10, 2007 1:17:01 GMT -5
This question is for informational purposes, I guess? I'm sure everyone knows of those who have been ex-communicated, and for a variety of reasons. Often people are said to have 'quit going to meetings' or 'lost out', when in fact, they were told not to attend meetings. West coast used to do this for remarriage after divorce, but there is more mercy these days, in fact, some of those who were ex-communicated have been approached by workers and told they would love to have them back in meetings. Others I know left because of causing problems in the Sunday meeting.
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Post by recentarriver on Dec 10, 2007 15:38:29 GMT -5
Hi Julio
When I initiated this thread June 2006 I had just heard of the Alberta situation. At that time, being a newbie to the TMB as well as recently becoming aware of the "Deception" issue, I asked the question of this thread because I was horrified to think of such cruelty existing within the 2x2's.
I evidently was living in the dark ages as I sincerely did not know what was going on regarding the excommunication issue. I am sure there are many others who are still unaware of this too and the knowledge of it does seem to be regional .
I can remember feeling fear that I would be booted out (excommunicated) of the fellowship for discovering and investigating topics like the founder and doctrines that didn't seem to line up with scripture. RA
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3
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Post by 3 on Dec 11, 2007 17:07:54 GMT -5
AK worker B [name suppressed] was excommunicated in the late 80's.
AK worker T [name suppressed] was 'partially' excommunicated. He is allowed to attend gospel meetings only.
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julio
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Post by julio on Dec 11, 2007 20:36:43 GMT -5
B [name suppressed] attends Wasilla convention, and has all along. My understanding is that he was not put out of fellowship, just out of the work.
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3
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Post by 3 on Dec 11, 2007 22:18:36 GMT -5
I'm happy to hear that. B [name suppressed] is a great person.
I was told he was banned from ALL meetings.
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Post by juliette on Dec 11, 2007 23:01:02 GMT -5
What did B [name suppressed] and T [name suppressed] do that got them exed, partially exed or put out of the work?
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pete
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Post by pete on Dec 12, 2007 4:04:33 GMT -5
What did Bob Ingram and Truitt Oyler do that got them exed, partially exed or put out of the work? B [name suppressed]: A) [suppressed]. B) Allowing T [name suppressed] to preach "false doctrine." T [name suppressed]: A) Preaching "false doctrine." B) Refusing to acknowledge that his doctrine was false.
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Post by Brick on Dec 12, 2007 11:35:48 GMT -5
What eck-zak-uh-tick-aly was the false doctrine?
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Post by Gene on Dec 12, 2007 15:17:11 GMT -5
It concerned the infallibility of Christ, primarily -- i.e., they taught that Jesus was not only without sin, but incapable of sin and incapable of failure. He was both divine and human, but without the nature from which sin arises and which is sin itself.
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arlis
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Post by arlis on Dec 13, 2007 1:32:08 GMT -5
I don't believe I've ever heard of an overseer being exed because of chasing skirts before. If they did, they wouldn't have many overseers left. I suspect that had very little to do with it. The "false" doctrine would be the more important issue. Just my suspicion.
Yes, as Brick asked, what exactly was the doctrine that T [name suppressed] was preaching?
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Post by Gene on Dec 13, 2007 6:20:57 GMT -5
Regarding the doctrine, see my reply # 44 above.
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3
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Post by 3 on Dec 13, 2007 9:58:59 GMT -5
I think there is much more to the B/T story than we will ever know.
Having lived in AK for many years, I knew both men. When Tharold Sylvester, overseer of WA, AK 7 northern ID, was 'stepping down' due to health/age, rumor had it that B was to be his successor.
Sister workers (who had labored under B) came forward and told the powers that be that they would not/could not be under B b/c he had 'trifled with their affections'. (A sister worker told me this a couple of years after B was removed from the work.) Another sister worker told me about her experience with B, details of which I will not share. I can muster up sympathy for her but, it takes two to tango and she was a willing participant...
I think POWER had alot to do with the whole situation. Much like the Salem witch trials (Kangaroo court) I think B/T were brought before the mob and the group speak/group think/group do mentality was their downfall with the decisions coming from the hierarchy rather than the congregation.
Perhaps if Jesus had been in their midst, he would have said, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.
As far as false doctrine goes, I listened to those men preach for nearly 10 years. I never detected anything amiss in B's preaching. He preached the status quo. T's preaching confused me so I'd tune him out! I was in my early 20's then and simply a follower and didn't have the critical thinking skills nor the Biblical knowledge to be able to detect 'false' doctrine.
Much like in Alberta, the 'Alaksa Situation' as it became known ripped the state in two; B & T supporters on one side, vs. those in favor of their downfall. Meetings were removed from homes, decades old friendships were torn apart.
This all happened in the late 80's and relationships remain strained to this day.
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julio
Junior Member
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Post by julio on Dec 14, 2007 0:47:03 GMT -5
I was told by an older brother worker that [suppressed]. When one is in a position of power, and the other is under their authority, and able to be intimidated by him, 'willing participation' is not possible, although it may seem that on the surface.
The doctrine has been pretty clearly stated; it seems it was not openly preached, but taught in homes they stayed in.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Dec 14, 2007 2:22:55 GMT -5
Yes, chasing skirts at the drag shows. That's what I heard.
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arlis
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Post by arlis on Dec 16, 2007 2:33:39 GMT -5
Thanks for clarifying. I am happy to take back my above comment.
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Dec 18, 2007 1:39:52 GMT -5
Junio- You can be told a lot of things 'by an older brother' - I would be curious to know if it was one of the big six who went up 'to straighten things out... I can assure you there was more concern that T's correct doctrine would become understood by all - than there was about any 'relationships' of 'ill repute'....being brought to 'judgement'... 'Twenty signed letters' may or may not be true - but it certainly served to give more emphasis to a behaviour problem rather than uncover workers incorrect doctrine. And then there is the 'older brother worker' who himself had inappropriate relation with his own neice... With God, sin is sin - However, doctrinal error has every thing to do with sins {whatever kind} not being adequately addressed, confessed and cleansed.sharon hargreaves
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Dec 18, 2007 1:44:36 GMT -5
sorry -JULIO - I mispelled your name. sharon
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julio
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Post by julio on Dec 19, 2007 0:34:00 GMT -5
Hi Sharon,
It was not one of the 'big six', but one our family has known and respected for decades.
I agree totally with the doctrine issue. While I don't know what it was all about, I heard that they used the 'Jesus could not sin' as an excuse. The excuse was 'we aren't like that', and men will sin. One of his followers said 'all men will try to seduce, and it's up to the woman to say no'. Another said 'it was just for his gratification' (that was about molesting children!).
I know well three victims from both of those men.
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Post by juliette on Dec 19, 2007 1:03:55 GMT -5
Hi Sharon, It was not one of the 'big six', but one our family has known and respected for decades. I agree totally with the doctrine issue. While I don't know what it was all about, I heard that they used the 'Jesus could not sin' as an excuse. The excuse was 'we aren't like that', and men will sin. One of his followers said 'all men will try to seduce, and it's up to the woman to say no'. Another said 'it was just for his gratification' (that was about molesting children!). I know well three victims from both of those men. So children were molested and the authorities were not brought in? Were the women "hit on" or sexually assaulted? Has no one every heard of the police??! What planet do these things happen on?
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Post by juliette on Dec 19, 2007 1:19:14 GMT -5
So I'm a little hot and bothered about the child sex abuse thing again. I was just talking w/ a friend about the Tim Severud thing again it brought up again the ass-backwardness of the situation within my own family. I know that my parents love my children. But when they found out that Tim had been arrested for sexually molesting a 10 year old girl, knowing that my children (my daughter is 10) had been alone with him, under his sole supervision, they discussed it and decided not to tell me about his arrest. So imagine that my 10 year old daughter visits my parents and plays in their neighbor's backyard. Then imagine that that neighbor is arrested for sexually molesting a 10 year old girl. Do you think my parents would have filled me in?!?! I am still reeling from this.
Then add to the fact that the parents in the Tim Severud case had after 5 days decided not to call the authorities, and that another family member finally picked up the phone and called. Tim's case could have been just like all of the others... he could be "resting" and in Australia right now.
Again... what planet are these people from!?!!?
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Post by freespirit on Dec 19, 2007 11:04:24 GMT -5
So I'm a little hot and bothered about the child sex abuse thing again. I was just talking w/ a friend about the Tim Severud thing again it brought up again the ass-backwardness of the situation within my own family. I know that my parents love my children. But when they found out that Tim had been arrested for sexually molesting a 10 year old girl, knowing that my children (my daughter is 10) had been alone with him, under his sole supervision, they discussed it and decided not to tell me about his arrest. So imagine that my 10 year old daughter visits my parents and plays in their neighbor's backyard. Then imagine that that neighbor is arrested for sexually molesting a 10 year old girl. Do you think my parents would have filled me in?!?! I am still reeling from this. Then add to the fact that the parents in the Tim Severud case had after 5 days decided not to call the authorities, and that another family member finally picked up the phone and called. Tim's case could have been just like all of the others... he could be "resting" and in Australia right now. Again... what planet are these people from!?!!? I dunno, Juliette. I speak often on this board against the "rules" but, honestly, I believe that worker worship is the more serious issue in the religion. There should not even be a QUESTION about what should be done when a parent catches a molester in the act with their child: Shoot the b*st*rd in the head. Then call the police. I GUESS if one has some sort of religious convictions about that sort of violence, then they could call the police first. But I doubt that that is what would happen at my house. I rarely post on the T.S. case because I'm so hot headed about it I'm afraid my computer might explode. God gave us these kids and IMO we oughta protect them. Just my two cents. freespirit
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