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Post by Sad Marriage on Mar 29, 2008 10:26:25 GMT -5
Marriage is not all it is cracked up to be.
Why do people make out it is so sublime?
I don't think we will make it through this year.
What to do?
Plan A : Stay together hoping for salvation, until one of us cracks up first.
Plan B: Agree to part, but lose salvation if we remarry.
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Post by aileen on Mar 29, 2008 13:18:37 GMT -5
Mines OK thankfully.
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Post by degem on Mar 29, 2008 13:24:34 GMT -5
So is mine aileen!
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Post by is it Okay on Mar 30, 2008 8:08:24 GMT -5
Is it now acceptable to divorce if things are not going as they should?
I'm glad you are both OK. I am not......................
I mean will I be asked to not take part?
It isn't all my fault, I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 16:54:10 GMT -5
Is it now acceptable to divorce if things are not going as they should? I'm glad you are both OK. I am not...................... I mean will I be asked to not take part? It isn't all my fault, I think. Sorry to hear that all is not well in your marriage. Are you married long? If you are married just a year or so, I can tell you that it is a very difficult year but in some respects, not so difficult as the second. Probably because you expect to some degree that the first year will be hard and then you wonder why your other half still argues about putting the bin out or closing the dog up when the ground rules were clearly established the previous year. Have you spoken to your other half about the problems? Is it possible that you can recall what attracted you to the person in the first place? Recall why you wanted to marry them? It may be difficult to sit down and discuss with openness and honesty what is going wrong but it is important - a marriage shouldn't be thrown away without an enormous effort made to hold it together. All trite advice of course, but I've seen both your soloutions in practise in a few marriages and the marriage where the couple struggled to keep it together may lack love but they have respect for each other and happier children than the other marriages where one party was interested in addressing the problems. And that's another thing - in the three cases I can think of where the marriage fell apart, one spouse had no signifcant interest in salvaging the marriage. That's not to say that talking about it with a determination to save the marrige will work but if you can both talk about it, there is a chance you may salvage it. If, of course, you want to. Yrs faithfully, Amateur Counsellor. As for the issue about salvation, I'm no theologian but I'd personally err on the side of caution and remember what Jesus said about what God hath joined, let no man put asunder.
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Meaning Interpreation
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Post by Meaning Interpreation on Mar 31, 2008 20:35:02 GMT -5
What Jesus recommended is the ideal model. Did Jesus also recommend the pracrice of forgiveness?
Does that exclude divorce and remarriage?
Do you think Jesus would expect a young divorced couple to spend the rest of their lives celibate?
If so why do some workers approve of certain divorced people's remarriage and allow them to be in fellowship, while denying this to others, or adding to their grief by making it super-difficult?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2008 21:06:32 GMT -5
why do some workers approve of certain divorced people's remarriage and allow them to be in fellowship, while denying this to others, ? Why do some people have more friends than other people?, it just aint fair!!! I think I'm going to have a snit!!
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Post by Rob O on Mar 31, 2008 21:55:47 GMT -5
Marriage is not all it is cracked up to be. Why do people make out it is so sublime? I don't think we will make it through this year. What to do? Plan A : Stay together hoping for salvation, until one of us cracks up first. Plan B: Agree to part, but lose salvation if we remarry. I highly recommend this book by David Instone-Brewer. www.divorce-remarriage.com/Go to left menu -> Books -> Pastoral It will help you find a biblical perspective on divorce/remarriage if that is what you're looking for. You can read the whole book on-line. You may decide it's worth buying for easier reference.
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Post by Callous on Apr 1, 2008 10:34:55 GMT -5
why do some workers approve of certain divorced people's remarriage and allow them to be in fellowship, while denying this to others, ? Why do some people have more friends than other people?, it just aint fair!!! I think I'm going to have a snit!! What a callous, uncaring comment to make. Heartless and unconcerned about the dilemma of others and their pain. What do you remind us of?? Yes, that's right.
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Post by Callous on Apr 1, 2008 10:35:59 GMT -5
why do some workers approve of certain divorced people's remarriage and allow them to be in fellowship, while denying this to others, ? Why do some people have more friends than other people?, it just aint fair!!! I think I'm going to have a snit!! What a callous, uncaring comment to make. Heartless and unconcerned about the dilemma of others and their pain. What do you remind us of??
Yes, that's right.
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Post by snit on Apr 1, 2008 10:55:59 GMT -5
Why do some people have more friends than other people?, it just aint fair!!! I think I'm going to have a snit!! What a callous, uncaring comment to make. Heartless and unconcerned about the dilemma of others and their pain. What do you remind us of??
Yes, that's right.Now I am in a snit! Is that OK with you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 16:32:10 GMT -5
What Jesus recommended is the ideal model. Did Jesus also recommend the pracrice of forgiveness? Does that exclude divorce and remarriage? Do you think Jesus would expect a young divorced couple to spend the rest of their lives celibate? If so why do some workers approve of certain divorced people's remarriage and allow them to be in fellowship, while denying this to others, or adding to their grief by making it super-difficult? I said I was no theologian and stated my personal understanding of what Jesus said about divorce and remarriage. It's enough to discourage me (should I ever be unfortunate enough to find myself in the situation) from divorcing and remarrying. I know there is much in Jesus' teachings about forgiveness, but equally, Jesus made very firm points about divorce and remarriage. I don't have the confidence to challenge Christ or to make the mould fit my human nature, thereby second-guessing or expanding on what Christ has intended. In order to be forgiven, one must repent and to repent means to turn from the sin completely. I fail to see how one can be forgiven if one sins continually and wilfully. That does not suggest repentance. It is possible to engage in mental acrobatics on many points Jesus made (and indeed Paul etc.) but I content myself with the thought that Jesus intended that following him was to be simple enough for the smallest and least amongst us to understand. I prayed before I married my OH and now, whatever slings and arrows cross us, I am content that our union was God's plan for us. I still pray for us as a couple in many things but perhaps not to guide us in some things the way I ought. It is good for me to think of this so thank you for the challenge to my post that has allowed me to come to here in a round about way. Sad Marriage, I am sorry that the thread is digressing from your problems but I do hope that you'll find a way to work through them.
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Post by Pamela on Apr 1, 2008 21:11:56 GMT -5
Divorce, like any other major decisions in life, is between YOU and God. Work it out with good counsellors and friends, but ultimatley only you know what you can live with, what is humanly bearable, and the great thing is that GOD knows too.
The judgements of the best of men are only that........judgements!
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Post by Callous on Apr 1, 2008 21:16:02 GMT -5
What a callous, uncaring comment to make. Heartless and unconcerned about the dilemma of others and their pain. What do you remind us of??
Yes, that's right. Now I am in a snit! Is that OK with you? Yes, you are and it's not OK.
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Post by no snit on Apr 2, 2008 14:51:26 GMT -5
Now I am in a snit! Is that OK with you? Yes, you are and it's not OK. Thank you, friend!, Now I have just as many friends as you do!
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juju
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Post by juju on Apr 2, 2008 19:41:55 GMT -5
What if God hadn't joined it (the marriage..).....what if you had joined it all by your self, in your lack of wisdom....and just thought that God had joined it? ?? Then what? Don't lie this kind of guilt on someone who is already unhappy...........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2008 19:50:50 GMT -5
What if God hadn't joined it (the marriage..).....what if you had joined it all by your self, in your lack of wisdom....and just thought that God had joined it? ?? Then what? Don't lie this kind of guilt on someone who is already unhappy........... good question! let me know how it goes?
Oh, I promise NOT to make you ''feel'' guilty, in any way!
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Post by Many friends on Apr 2, 2008 19:59:26 GMT -5
Yes, you are and it's not OK. Thank you, friend!, Now I have just as many friends as you do! Thanks too. I have many friends. None of them however are Snits. You said you were a snit, not I!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2008 20:36:49 GMT -5
Thank you, friend!, Now I have just as many friends as you do! Thanks too. I have many friends. None of them however are Snits. You said you were a snit, not I!!! No, I said I was in a snit, but then...you called me a snit! have you no shame
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Post by Apology on Apr 3, 2008 9:28:14 GMT -5
I apologise. I did not notice that little preposition "in"
How rude of me to call you a snit.
By the way what is a snit?
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Post by Remarry on Apr 4, 2008 20:48:44 GMT -5
Divorce seems to pass off alright. The punishment is not to be allowed to speak in meeting or take the emblems ( even though the guy next to you may have a TV, play sport, drink alcohol, have affairs and keep it all hidden from workers, and still take the emblems, speak and pray.)
The real problem show up when you try to remarry.
THE WORKERS, most that I know, have not learned the meaning of forgiveness or second chances when it comes to remarriage. Some are in strong disagreement about this issue.
You may need to move home, research the situation and emmigrate in order to continue your life as a 2x2.
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Post by Guest 1 on Apr 5, 2008 6:47:06 GMT -5
Of course divorce is not a desirable outcome, however in some cases it has to be the only outcome.
When Jesus was asked this question by the Pharisees he was quite clear about there being valid grounds, whilst at the same time telling of what was most desirable .
Now please be aware that after divorce there is no entanglement with the previous marriage covenant......... that person is free.
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Post by Who says on Apr 29, 2008 12:50:16 GMT -5
How free? There are broken hearts, burdens of guilt, financial burdens, broken children, who says anyone is free???
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Apr 30, 2008 20:54:24 GMT -5
to is it ok: I haven't read the rest, so pardon me if this has already been said (going to go back and reread and very likely add some after I'm done, but I just had to say this now before I forget...) very, very rarely is it EVER *all* one person's fault...so I'm glad you don't think that. M. edit: yep, next post in fact. (can you tell I have strong feelings on these issues? ) to guest aka amateur counselor: I agree that talking about it is a VERY good idea and an absolute must if a couple is going to keep a "bad" marriage together. That said, talking does *absolutely nothing* in the long run but to address *what exactly* the issues are. There must, must, MUST be action. I have been in situations where I am TRULY talked out...there really has to be some sort of moving forward after all the talking is done. M. to "who says:" I'm sure you knew what guest1 was referring to....but I also agree that divorce is not "free" Hearts will be broken...most times even if the people can't live together as husband and wife anymore, there will still be a great sense of loss....loss of the love that once was, the "old times," loss of companionship, financial burdens, and on and on as you referred to. Not much is free anymore. M.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 1, 2008 1:25:50 GMT -5
What Jesus recommended is the ideal model. Did Jesus also recommend the pracrice of forgiveness? Does that exclude divorce and remarriage? Do you think Jesus would expect a young divorced couple to spend the rest of their lives celibate? Forgiveness for past sins is not a license to sin. Like Jesus said, "go, and sin no more". Divorce and re-marriage after divorce are not about "the workers". Whether the workers allow you to worship with them or not is irrelevant here. If re-marriage was acceptable, the workers could not make it wrong. Since it is not, the workers cannot make it right. It was Jesus, not one of the modern-day 'workers', who said and "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 1, 2008 1:32:12 GMT -5
Marriage is not all it is cracked up to be. Why do people make out it is so sublime? I don't think we will make it through this year. What to do? Plan A : Stay together hoping for salvation, until one of us cracks up first. Plan B: Agree to part, but lose salvation if we remarry. There are two different questions here. One is "is it morally acceptable to divorce"? The answer, with the possible exception "saving for the cause of fornication", is no. The other question is what should you do, and the answer is neither "crack up" nor divorce. You'd do well to take the words of Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 to heart. Of course, wives should also love their husbands, and both should respect one another. Remember -- "what God hath joined together" -- God would not have joined two that cannot stay together. The comments above about not fitting Christ to our own human nature are very apt.
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Post by ram unplugged on May 1, 2008 3:23:16 GMT -5
Calleduntoliberty, I am saddened by your post, which is founded solely upon the law of God. At this juncture I will give you the benefit of the doubt about correct translation, interpretation and context.
You have failed to factor in "the mercy of God" without which none of us have a hope of salvation because none of us can stand in the light of God's laws.
You have made a serious oversight here, on the one point which actually matters. Those that have truly felt the mercy of God will know what I'm talking about. It transcends his laws to which he alone is not subject to. Therefore, in judgement he appropriates his mercy to those who seek him.
If God is merciful towards a divorcee or person who has re-married, their past sins are forgotten. A new beginning is established in Christ. When Jesus was talking about divorce and re-marriage it was to the Pharisees. He was addressing the law of God in conjunction with their interpretations.
Mercy is an individual matter. No one should look for justification in God's laws. They will not find it. They will however find sanctification in his love and mercy for these transcend his laws and are available to anyone.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on May 1, 2008 4:28:10 GMT -5
wow, CUL. I, too, found your post *very* judgemental. Perhaps if you were in the situation (even though one does not have to be in a particular situation to feel compassion or empathy!) you might have a bit of sympathy. Your interpretation might not be the correct one, no matter how much you believe it to be so. You know? Sorry in advance if I sound harsh...I don't wish to. Just saying. M.
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