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Post by Iilene on Jan 1, 2008 12:43:19 GMT -5
~~~Each person has choices to make.Each person is responsible for those choices. No one can make us do something.It is our choice whether we want to or not.~~Iilene
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Post by LSMND on Jan 1, 2008 13:00:25 GMT -5
LSMND - What distruction do you refer to? Also I have left a post for you under... the topic... Kicked out of The Truth for marrying an outsider You rascal Teenager! I will NOT tell you who I am! The destruction I refer to may not have hit the headlines in "The Professing Post" but was probably tucked away on page 94 below an advertisement placed by Jan De Vries offering eternal life to those who ingest his potions and pills. There was a meeting taken from a home that had been there since 1912 and three people (about 30% of the friends in the county) left the meetings and one chap hovering on the brink of professing stepped back in disgust and anger. As for the couple in question, think Co. Meath and Ards peninsula. Funnily, the chap is related to Nathan somehow...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2008 13:30:36 GMT -5
Ram wrote... Such statements would be more accurate if you have lived in the way in the UK for many years and had several generations of professing relatives behind you. Basing such sweeping assertions upon a travelling analysis is shakey at best.I have lived in UK all my life (approx "many" years), my grandparents professed. I don't sweep assertions thanks. Then you have lived blindly "many" years. You know those buns worn by women in the "truth"? = a rule You see women wearing only skirts or dresses at meetings, conventions, and most get-togethers and potlucks? = a rule You see most of the women not wearing make up? = a rule How about the abscence of TVs in professing homes? = a rule
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Post by aileen on Jan 1, 2008 13:59:26 GMT -5
Then you have lived blindly "many" years.
You know those buns worn by women in the "truth"? = a rule
You see women wearing only skirts or dresses at meetings, conventions, and most get-togethers and potlucks? = a rule You see most of the women not wearing make up? = a rule How about the abscence of TVs in professing homes? = a rule
If these are rules then they are frequently and regularly broken then - to the extent that they are inefectual.
Elders wives with short hair... Upwards of 20 women in trousers at a time... TVs in half the homes. makeup on about a third the women......... etc
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2008 14:05:32 GMT -5
Ram wrote... Such statements would be more accurate if you have lived in the way in the UK for many years and had several generations of professing relatives behind you. Basing such sweeping assertions upon a travelling analysis is shakey at best.I have lived in UK all my life (approx "many" years), my grandparents professed. I don't sweep assertions thanks. Actually it is I who am amiss. A few years back I too would have made such a defence. Only some very large scale shedding experiences have caused me to see the light and awaken me from my trance, for that is exactly what it is. We all need our own Damascan journey to open our eyes. Years of indoctrination, cemented in place by our own self-indoctrination, keeps us in Wonderland !
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 1, 2008 14:46:31 GMT -5
LSMND - What distruction do you refer to? Also I have left a post for you under... the topic... Kicked out of The Truth for marrying an outsider You rascal Teenager! I will NOT tell you who I am! The destruction I refer to may not have hit the headlines in "The Professing Post" but was probably tucked away on page 94 below an advertisement placed by Jan De Vries offering eternal life to those who ingest his potions and pills. There was a meeting taken from a home that had been there since 1912 and three people (about 30% of the friends in the county) left the meetings and one chap hovering on the brink of professing stepped back in disgust and anger. As for the couple in question, think Co. Meath and Ards peninsula. Funnily, the chap is related to Nathan somehow... Oh didn't knwo about the meeting, but the others I had I think heard about, Co.Monaghan direction? The couple you are refering to was the intials I was looking not yours A.G
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Post by jjjjj on Jan 1, 2008 20:58:33 GMT -5
When I heard Norman Nash speak he was so mesmerizing spiritually that I didn't even notice his mustache. A big no no here (USA) but the menfolk continually thumb their nose up at this rule.
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 1, 2008 21:14:52 GMT -5
When I heard Norman Nash speak he was so mesmerizing spiritually that I didn't even notice his mustache. A big no no here (USA) but the menfolk continually thumb their nose up at this rule. Its gone for now I think, although not because of a rule, as there is another I can think of who has one.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Jan 3, 2008 22:00:35 GMT -5
DD has one last time I saw?
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 5, 2008 5:58:49 GMT -5
DD has one last time I saw? Yes still does... as of 2 weeks ago.
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Post by ADON on Jan 5, 2008 14:14:04 GMT -5
There was always the impression that the standard was higher across the water than in Ireland and Fermanagh was considered to have the lowest standards in Ireland (sorry to anyone from there reading this but I feel qualified to comment given that my roots are in Fermanagh .)
Oh my goodness! I am also well aware of what things are like in Fermanagh and I would have to say that if things in this county are lenient and standards are poor compared to other parts of the UK, then I would not like to live in these parts!!! Fermanagh is still very much hard line when it comes to 'the rules' - how do you see that standards are slipping here? Can you give an example?
Also many other wonder what the MCMinn guy does with the profits he makes from the tournament!!
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 5, 2008 15:39:00 GMT -5
There was always the impression that the standard was higher across the water than in Ireland and Fermanagh was considered to have the lowest standards in Ireland (sorry to anyone from there reading this but I feel qualified to comment given that my roots are in Fermanagh .)Oh my goodness! I am also well aware of what things are like in Fermanagh and I would have to say that if things in this county are lenient and standards are poor compared to other parts of the UK, then I would not like to live in these parts!!! Fermanagh is still very much hard line when it comes to 'the rules' - how do you see that standards are slipping here? Can you give an example? Also many other wonder what the MCMinn guy does with the profits he makes from the tournament!! Really... I thought it was out of control, loadsa money, loadsa kids from professing homes.. going a bit wild.. etc etc etc
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Post by ex-teenager on Jan 6, 2008 15:56:12 GMT -5
LSMND - Were have you gotten to... don't tell me youv'e left us?
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Post by Guest all seeing on Jan 23, 2008 19:51:52 GMT -5
Workers leave rapidly in England. Some as soon as they arrive. Dwindling numbers. Friends follow their own conscience. Shouldn't they have always been encouraged to do this?
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Post by quick flitters on Jan 24, 2008 2:54:13 GMT -5
some leave as quickly as they arrive? Well what's unusual about that? Airports in London and other British cities are hubs where many people, workers, friends and the world in general change flights in order to continue their journey.
However usually I believe the local workers like to retain the visitor workers for a little while and often rope them in to a meeting or gospel meeting to speak for them. These extra visitors are advertised to friends in a slightly wider area than normal and frequently attendance is somewhat boosted
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Post by deserted on Jan 24, 2008 4:14:45 GMT -5
I don't think there are any friends left in London any more. In fact there's very few in the whole country.
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Post by desert island on Jan 24, 2008 4:47:30 GMT -5
are there not 2 sets of workers in London usually? Is that the case this year and if so who are they and what are they doing? Are they actively preaching? I'm sure there must be friends there because there were also two sets of special meetings advertised one of which was in a huge auditorium at a university
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Post by deserted on Jan 24, 2008 5:10:05 GMT -5
Had to downscale the 2 pairs or workers, as there are not enough places to stay. Heard they are thinking of getting a "bach" like they do in some countries where there are no friends to support them. Special meetings are deceptive in numbers, as there are people travel long distances to attend, and they go to 4 or 5 meetings, so real numbers are like 25%. Huge auditorium? ou might say that, but thats gross exaggeration, especially for the 25 or so gathered there!
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Post by desert island on Jan 24, 2008 6:00:12 GMT -5
how do you downscale workers? Are they too fat or something?
UK Workers list says Brothers in South, Sean MacDowall and another, Sisters in North London Elizabeth Foster and Claire Davis, are these people overweight? Do they eat too much for the friends to be able to support them? I hear obesity is becoming a major concern in the United kingdom
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Post by deserted on Jan 24, 2008 7:03:26 GMT -5
Yes obesity is a major worry in the UK.
Did you know that only the USA is worse than UK in obesity?
Workers lists here are out of date the day before they're given out.
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Post by desert island on Jan 24, 2008 7:28:28 GMT -5
yes I heard that they printed all the lists once and one worker died before they were published so they had to go through them all with a pen and knock his name off
But I dont think there have ever been any major changes.
you sound very concerned about things in the UK, whats on the go there? who's in charge? I heard there were rumblings
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Post by deserted on Jan 24, 2008 8:07:34 GMT -5
Of course I'm concerned. Obesity leads to all manner of other health issues, and it would be terrible if we were to get even worse that the worst in the world, those fat americans.
On lists, no, there are major rearrangements made all the time, there's little stability in who is posted where. By 6 months, more than half is rearranged.
You asked who is in charge. No-one knows, but there are rumours of someone coming in from another country - maybe even a Scottish one? Or an American? That would be interesting. Originally they all came from here, now maybe bring some back?
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Post by desert island on Jan 24, 2008 8:14:47 GMT -5
well theres no accountability is there. I mean there might be few people want the way but if the leadership is lacking in vitality then where's the enthusiasm of workers coming from?
Businesses need a sales management driven system to get all their guys producing results, making contacts, meetings, events, surely # the truth# needs this too. I hear theyre shutting down conventions in England where would that be? Yet I am told some conventions are held on holiday weekends and the invitations say not to overcrowd those
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Post by Just a moment on Jan 24, 2008 8:55:01 GMT -5
Believe me it is v strict. Radios are frowned on and certainly no tv's. Ladies never wear trousers, make up and jewellery are not allowed. Try to ask questions as to where the scriptural basis is for these rules and you will hit a blank wall Radios may be frowned upon, nevertheless almost everyone I know has one- in the home or in the car or both. Most people under 40 that I know have a TV, others watch other people's regularly and many women as old as 60 wear jeans and trousers approptiately. The scripture quoted as an excuse to deny the use of these items is usually misquoted from Paul's letters, and any quotes about self denial. The reason that some members can tour a country from coast to coast and get the impression that the old rules are still observed is because people who follow their own consciences are obliged to hide these things from other conservative and old fashioned friends and workers. Be sure most friends have got radios and TVs or have access to viewing devises. When families who deny their children access to TV, video DVD visit their non professing relatives these children and often their parents gravitate towards the TV. This is amusing, if sad. I have several non member friends however, who do not let their children have TV during their formative years. If the friends had more freedom they could use their discretion whether they wanted to avail of all the good programmes instead living double standard s while being intimidated by fear of disapproval and worse by severe friends and workers. They could then make informed choices.
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Post by Guest on Jan 24, 2008 20:07:50 GMT -5
I< don't think there are any friends left in London any more. In fact there's very few in the whole country> [There are relatively speaking more friends in London than most other areas in England. However there are hardly any pass- it -down English friends. Several devout, law abiding muliticultural groups. The largest numbers come from the job seeking Kiwi and Aussies. These are regularly coming and going. Sunday Meetings can be 30/40 variable Standards" have dropped since these arrivals since they are allowed by British workers a lifestyle denied to the rest of the population!! Modern fashions, they turn up in casual geer to meeting, shorter hairstyles, (don't need to pin up) cinema visits, all night parties etc. They sow their wild oats here. According to their own workers standards are strict back in their countries. They practise sport, their women often wear trousers (not to meeting) They don't need to hide their interests or pursuits. Anything goes. Those who settle curry favour with the hierarchy. In the past older sister workers complained bitterly about the infiltration of the vices in the wake of these arrivals. Most young people in England embrace the changes brought about.
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the damage done Guest
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Post by the damage done Guest on Jan 25, 2008 8:05:22 GMT -5
A question for those from England- Do they still 'discourage' children attending conventions? Relatives of mine said there were hardly any children at the Convention they attended? It was their understanding that children were not encourage to attend convention. sharon hargreaves There was a time when children were to be seen and not heard, then the time came when teens were converted into middle aged in appearance etc. especially females. There was a time when many young people got out as fast as they could, a lot of pain and hurt all round. Never heard about children or teens being discouraged from coming to convention. The absence of many children and youth at some conventions is because they attend the holiday conventions in England and people who care about the children's education don't take them out of school. Too many people have left who would have liked to stay but for the unbearable strictness especially in 50s, 60s and 70s.
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Post by desert island on Jan 25, 2008 9:47:35 GMT -5
I would say children are actively encouraged to attend and for the last 25 years this was always the case. Children would love the chance to help on dining tables etc Provision has been made for a separate area where parents can take children during meeting and still hear through the public address system. Workers known to go crazy if children make noise in meeting. I remember this being the case not from a British speaker but from a visitor from abroad. Told lady to take child out in the middle of his sermon. It might have been her first convention too, all rather embarrassing. Attendance much higher during the saturday and sunday of the weekend
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Post by aileen on Jan 25, 2008 9:57:24 GMT -5
Whats mentioned above is correct. There has never been any discouragement to bring children to convention, rather, there were few children to bring, and the kids all went to the same conventions, leaving some convs mt of kids. (as an aside isn't interesting how an nobservation like "there are few kids here", gets translated to "Kids are discouraged from coming".)
And standards have changed dramatically. The more realistic standards of the colonies (Oz and NZ) have brought to the UK a freshness that was needed. The girsl don't feel bound by rules and do whats sensible, without (mostly) being too provocative. The boys likewise. I understand its the same in Scotland, but not sure about NIreland. These imports play organised sports, regard fashions, mix wider than just the friends, attend other denominations at times, are very mobile (move about a lot), and travel heaps.
As the local workers they come into contact with didn't know them from a babe, and as they don't regard those workers as some sort of law authority, then they have little control in the way it used to be. Growing up with a respect (read fear) for a worker meant having a respect (fear, awe) for them even in to their 30s. Not so if you just met them, or only known them for a year. So, the original statement of this thread is quite wrong.
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