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Post by Observing on Jun 6, 2004 2:33:43 GMT -5
The thing called no name is especially openly hostile against online chatters who disagree with it and its President. It even degrades people by reducing them to objects (or rather animals ) - the first stage of violence and fascist behaviour. "The thing"? "it/its/It" You are an extremely gross acting person, "ha"! Perhaps you get entertainment by being that way or are naturally that way. Ugh! Ah, "little no name things"? No you don't. Having fun, "ha"?
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Post by ha on Jun 6, 2004 6:56:58 GMT -5
"The thing"? "it/its/It" You are an extremely gross acting person, "ha"! Perhaps you get entertainment by being that way or are naturally that way. Ugh! You first call no name gross - I just copied what it wrote. Unless it apologises I will continue using the IT THING. Enough is enough ... Yes I did. More than you think ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Observing on Jun 6, 2004 14:28:09 GMT -5
You first call no name gross You are mistaken. Not a surprising attitude from you. It has been clear that no name is a "she". You said " And I have been to the US several times, have family living there, and I know what I am speaking about." Visiting here differs a lot from living here, from being an American citizen as far as what your attitude and views may be. Which leads to your posts not being taken as seriously or respectfully as they otherwise might be.
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Post by ha on Jun 6, 2004 14:45:19 GMT -5
Not a surprising attitude from you. It has been clear that no name is a "she". No name used the expression This for me. I think that this is not a surpising attitude from no name. My posts will not be taken seriously anyway - I am considered a liberal, anti-american, terrorist, almost antichrist, because I value Chomsky. Moore and Woody Allen's views over the Bush-band. So at least let me have fun with all you American children.
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Post by no name on Jun 6, 2004 15:22:13 GMT -5
That depends. You made the comment: “Europeans do not want Bush and his policies.” – I never said: “Americans don’t want Socialism in Europe”, so the same does not apply. Most Americans don't care about Socialism in Europe -- but they don't want the U.S. to be a Socialist country. This is pretty ironic to see you acting like some kind of victim. You forget the very openly hostile treatment you aimed at me from the very beginning of our discussions. And your comment about me being hostile against those who disagree with me and our President is dead wrong – Bertine and I disagree strongly with each other about various political issues, but there’s no hostility between us at all; in fact, we are good friends. Reducing people to objects – if you think I reduced you to an “object” by making the comment: “This is someone who . . . .”, you do not notice that I did not refer to you as an "it" or a "thing". You look for insult where there is none, but given our past discussions, this doesn’t really surprise me. Lo que sea. Animals – yes, I referred to the butchers who hacked off Nick Berg’s head, while they chanted “Allah Akbar” like a pack of hyenas. Have you seen the video – the behavior does remind one of wild animals, just as the video of them beheading Daniel Pearl – and they also made a video of themselves beheading an Italian hostage, in addition to other barbaric behavior exhibited by people with the same mindset. And you conveniently forget that it is the Militant Islamists who view the infidels as objects to be wiped off the face of the earth – you included. So before you feel so strongly about coming to the defense of “people” like them, take a good hard look at just what it is they truly want, instead of demonizing those who are trying to stop them. For one thing, the Cannes film “prize” was so not surprising, coming from a group of people who hold the same Anti-American/hate America sentiments as Moore. Hmmm . . I wonder if Cannes will give the same degree of attention to the REAL documentary Remembering Saddam produced by Don North, where he tells the story of Iraqi businessmen who were sentenced by Saddam to having their hands surgically amputated and a brand put on their forehead. With the donated help of various American companies and free services given by American doctors, the men had surgery in Texas, I believe, to attach prosthetic hands. The film, Osama didn’t have the same fanatical reception as Moore’s piece of contrived “work” did. Gee, I wonder why – no, I don’t wonder why – it’s because Moore parrots the same venomous and hateful rhetoric against America that a lot of Europeans do, and that's why the film was so popular. Surprise, surprise! Secondly, you think that because something is popular and a bestseller automatically means they are respectable? Not so. The Jerry Springer show has been quite popular for years – but it’s widely viewed as not respectable. I think not. Yes it was meant to sound that way. In fact, all of your comments about the US have been this way. Speak for yourself. Well, I did know that pot was legal there, but here in the U.S. coffeeshops sell coffee, not dope. I’m a coffee lover, not a pothead. But we do have other ways of referring to dope and dope areas that you wouldn’t know about either; the great language divide of slang.
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Guarp
Junior Member
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Post by Guarp on Jun 6, 2004 17:54:06 GMT -5
Well, I did know that pot was legal there, but here in the U.S. coffeeshops sell coffee, not dope. I’m a coffee lover, not a pothead. But we do have other ways of referring to dope and dope areas that you wouldn’t know about either; the great language divide of slang. Hey, being a coffee lover, did you also know we Dutch are one of the greatest coffee-loving-nations in Europe? Besides our infamous "coffeeshops" we do serve excellent coffee too
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Post by no name on Jun 6, 2004 18:24:38 GMT -5
Hey, being a coffee lover, did you also know we Dutch are one of the greatest coffee-loving-nations in Europe? Besides our infamous "coffeeshops" we do serve excellent coffee too I think I've had Dutch coffee before, when I used to buy specialty coffee from Gevalia -- but they sell so many different kinds, I honestly can't remember what its name was . . . . You are reminding me that I haven't had my evening cup of coffee! Gonna go brew some right now . . . . ;D ;D
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Post by ha on Jun 7, 2004 5:27:27 GMT -5
You made the comment: “Europeans do not want Bush and his policies.” – I never said: “Americans don’t want Socialism in Europe”, so the same does not apply. Most Americans don't care about Socialism in Europe -- but they don't want the U.S. to be a Socialist country. Thanks for allowing us to be what we want to be - very kind ... This is pretty ironic to see you acting like some kind of victim. I was and still am a victim of US policies. My country suffered for years because of them and I felt them on my flesh. However you will never undrestand this so at least you should not ridicule it. You forget the very openly hostile treatment you aimed at me from the very beginning of our discussions. I admit being hostile to people who support governments that lie in order to support their decision to go to war to reinforce their imperialistic world dominance. And I will continue being - be sure for this. And your comment about me being hostile against those who disagree with me and our President is dead wrong – Bertine and I disagree strongly with each other about various political issues, but there’s no hostility between us at all; in fact, we are good friends. Bertine may be nice - this does not make YOU less hostile. Reducing people to objects – if you think I reduced you to an “object” by making the comment: “This is someone who . . . .”, you do not notice that I did not refer to you as an "it" or a "thing". You look for insult where there is none, but given our past discussions, this doesn’t really surprise me. Lo que sea. You are really not surprised by anything. I was insulted. And I still am. Animals – yes, I referred to the butchers who hacked off Nick Berg’s head, while they chanted “Allah Akbar” like a pack of hyenas. Have you seen the video – the behavior does remind one of wild animals, just as the video of them beheading Daniel Pearl – and they also made a video of themselves beheading an Italian hostage, in addition to other barbaric behavior exhibited by people with the same mindset. And you conveniently forget that it is the Militant Islamists who view the infidels as objects to be wiped off the face of the earth – you included. So before you feel so strongly about coming to the defense of “people” like them, take a good hard look at just what it is they truly want, instead of demonizing those who are trying to stop them. The same applies to the US soldiers who tortured and killed unprotected prisoners (most of them innocent and subsequently freed) are no less animals than the Arabs defending their land and property and reacting to imperialistic US and Israeli policies. Animals combatting animals. Only that the US animals consider themselves «liberators», «anti-terrorists» and «promoters of democracy». And yes, yes, they will be tried and go to prison (for one year or some months) ... ;D ;D ;D For one thing, the Cannes film “prize” was so not surprising, coming from a group of people who hold the same Anti-American/hate America sentiments as Moore. Hmmm . . I wonder if Cannes will give the same degree of attention to the REAL documentary Remembering Saddam produced by Don North, where he tells the story of Iraqi businessmen who were sentenced by Saddam to having their hands surgically amputated and a brand put on their forehead. With the donated help of various American companies and free services given by American doctors, the men had surgery in Texas, I believe, to attach prosthetic hands. The film, Osama didn’t have the same fanatical reception as Moore’s piece of contrived “work” did. Gee, I wonder why – no, I don’t wonder why – it’s because Moore parrots the same venomous and hateful rhetoric against America that a lot of Europeans do, and that's why the film was so popular. Surprise, surprise! He got the prize and sells bestsellers. When your Mr. North starts selling I will consider your arguments. You see YOU are the FREE MARKET and CAPITALIST supporter - I am the socialist. So if something does not sell why bother ... Secondly, you think that because something is popular and a bestseller automatically means they are respectable? Not so. The Jerry Springer show has been quite popular for years – but it’s widely viewed as not respectable. So you are not so capitalist after all Think what you want - I have been to the US (even to several conventions when I was with the 2x2s) and my family there gives me regular briefings about what is going on. Well, I did know that pot was legal there, but here in the U.S. coffeeshops sell coffee, not dope. I’m a coffee lover, not a pothead. But we do have other ways of referring to dope and dope areas that you wouldn’t know about either; the great language divide of slang. Good to admit that you did not know something. From your posts you never gave this impression. On the contrary, you seem knowing « everything» and even more. This again is an attitude several American have - it creates a reaction to others and hence the badmouthing. We will never accept that Americans know better how to run international affairs, especially if they use force and oversimplification - US=good guys, OTHERS=terrorists.
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Guarp
Junior Member
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Post by Guarp on Jun 7, 2004 16:49:33 GMT -5
I was and still am a victim of US policies. My country suffered for years because of them and I felt them on my flesh. However you will never undrestand this so at least you should not ridicule it. I am an European, so I should be able to understand it, but I just don't. What do you mean by saying a European country suffered / is a victim of US policies?? I am pretty curious what you have in mind when talking about this "suffering" from your part. Being hostile never bears fruit.. never. You oppose American aggression?? You better show a different face. Do you realize you make use of oversimplification yourself quite a bit??
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Post by no name on Jun 7, 2004 18:06:19 GMT -5
Guarp, In the crying “ha” has done about my supposed “hostility” towards him, he continues to overlook the fact that from the beginning of our discussions, he belittled anything I said with obvious hostility and utter contempt. The attitude portrayed by “ha” was noticed by other people, and commented on more than once. It all began when I didn’t agree with “ha’s” argument that Israel was the “greatest threat to peace on the whole planet”, and when I expressed my stance that the actions of “Palestinian” suicide terrorist murderers in targeting innocent Israeli civilians was not justifiable. “Ha” then made such comments as “most Americans being ignoramuses”, the Israelis and American GIs are “criminals”, that people such as myself were “criminals” for supporting Israel and America, etc., etc. The insults continued – “ha” then began attacking me without provocation on the Homeschool thread, when he said (in the middle of my discussions with other people): When I asked him what his problem was, he said: “Ha” continued to bring up hostile references to the 2&2 (which had nothing to do with the discussions we were engaging in), referred to me as being blind, fascist, that I needed to get some education etc., etc., Then at one point he becomes quite dramatic when I mention “ha” to another poster by saying “This is someone who . . . .” “Ha” then rants about about how I’m referring to him as an “object”, a thing or an it (when I never did any such thing), and he rails on about how that's the first stage of violence and fascist behaviour, etc., etc., So, “ha” forgets that it was his initial interaction with me that began it all, and he continues to look for ways to further antagonize [especially since I don't buy into the PC argument that there is a moral equivalence between us (the Americans, or anyone who supports us) and the Militant Islamists we are currently at war with]. And yet he continues to try to paint himself as the “victim” in our discussions. Lo que sea.
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Post by Observing on Jun 7, 2004 21:47:44 GMT -5
I was and still am a victim of US policies. My country suffered for years because of them and I felt them on my flesh. However you will never undrestand this so at least you should not ridicule it. What country are you from? Saying "This is someone who...." is no more insulting than saying "Here is someone who...." or "There is someone who.....". This is an attitude you yourself have displayed. You are in control of how you react; badmouthing is not your only option.
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Post by ha on Jun 8, 2004 2:38:36 GMT -5
I am an European, so I should be able to understand it, but I just don't. What do you mean by saying a European country suffered / is a victim of US policies?? I am pretty curious what you have in mind when talking about this "suffering" from your part. Kurdistan (and the genocide going on there), Greece (and the colonels), Cyprus (and the dirty part Kissinger played), not to mention Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland and of course the Middle East.
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Post by ha on Jun 8, 2004 2:45:56 GMT -5
I do not have so much time as no name to go back to the hundreds of pages she produces to pin point all the agressive expressions, conclusions and insinuations she made on my behalf. I was more direct and concise so it is easier to quote me as being agressive. It is evident that no name loves to deal with the side issues in order not to deal with the real issues. She never wondered why, even me a peaceful person in my private live, get really nervous with Americans who do not seem to understand more than their immediate surroundings and accept their government's propaganda without even considering the possibility of an opposite view. And who consider that they are the the best and the unique people on the world, ready to teach others how to manage their affairs - even obliging them to manage them the way the americans think is best.
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Post by ha on Jun 8, 2004 2:47:56 GMT -5
Never say never ! The face I show is a reflexion of teh American attitude towards the world, so it cannot be changed unless if the Americans themselves change their attitude.
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Post by ha on Jun 8, 2004 2:58:01 GMT -5
Exactly, I do not forget. And I still maintain that the militant islamists the US is now fighting ARE THE PRODUCT of US policies and oversimplifications and omissions and errors and they did not just come out of the blue. And that they serve as a perfect excuse for the US to better control the Middle East and its natural resources (oil) - something that creates still further re-actions against the US. Finaly what no name buys or not buys is not my business ... However, attitutes and voices like no name's reinforce the US government's agressive actions in the same way that ordinary Germans were the willing executioners of Hitler (see www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0349107866/qid=1086679304/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_11_9/202-2344135-9131009) Of course no name will again consider this as an agressive comment - but this is not my problem either.
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Guarp
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Guarp on Jun 8, 2004 5:56:54 GMT -5
Kurdistan (and the genocide going on there), Greece (and the colonels), Cyprus (and the dirty part Kissinger played), not to mention Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland and of course the Middle East. In an earlier post you wrote " My country suffered for years because of them" You still don't make clear to me what you're talking about. And how come Kurdistan and the Middle East are a part of Europe nowadays? The stabilization force in Yugoslavia consisted out of different nationalities. As an international community we failed, and you can't just blame the U.S. for it. I am Dutch and I am also ashamed of our role in Srebrenica and what happened there. You are right, Americans feel like they are the best, they act like they are the best and don't bother too much about the world around them. The reason why is that the USA is a world on its own, in general pretty prosperous and they share a common dream. In Europe we have the same prosperity and an history to be proud of. The only problem is we're not one people. I am proud of my tiny country and its rich history and unless its in discussions like this, I don't feel European at all. We do need international cooperation, while the States can do a lot on their own. Their knowledge about / view on this world is often restricted to the borders of the state itself. Well, I can understand that. However, as political and economic power is shifting over this world, some day the States will have to realize that they will become very dependent on different countries and world leaders. Just think about the economic growth in countries like India, China and the exodus of cheap work from the US. It's cool you want to reflect the aggression by Americans on these boards, but it will be a lot nicer to get into a debate with you if you try to show your peaceful side.
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Post by ha on Jun 8, 2004 7:51:13 GMT -5
Well put Guarp. As for my country, this is a 2x2 board and if I reveal my country (as I did in another similar context) it is as if I reveal myself. I will not do it.
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Guarp
Junior Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Guarp on Jun 8, 2004 7:58:28 GMT -5
Well put Guarp. As for my country, this is a 2x2 board and if I reveal my country (as I did in another similar context) it is as if I reveal myself. I will not do it. In that case you shouldn't be whining about "your country" suffering from American actions. I don't get it.
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Post by HA on Jun 8, 2004 10:30:07 GMT -5
Sure I will ...
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Post by HA on Jun 8, 2004 10:31:02 GMT -5
Sorry for the HA but somebody subscribed as ha in the list ...
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Post by no name on Jun 8, 2004 12:16:42 GMT -5
You forget that it was your comments in the very beginning that set the tone for our interactions.
You are incorrect -- the same does not apply, because it is not the same mindset. You may refuse to see it, but there is a difference. Americans are appalled by the behavior of the soldiers -- their behavior is not accepted, or condoned here, nor by our military. The behavior of hacking off the head of innocent people (or other acts of terror purposefully aimed at innocent people) is accepted, condoned, glorified, and applauded by the Militant Islamists as a whole.
And I still maintain that this is erroneous.
Something that people are overlooking is what is ingrained into the Militant Islamists – their actions are the byproduct of fanaticism in their religion – the U.S. could have no presence in other countries, and we would still be considered their enemy, because we represent in the success of our country everything that they hate. And unless you subscribe to the beliefs of Militant Islam, you would be considered an infidel, worthy of death as well.
Not only aggressive but preposterous -- and wrong.
Your real problem is not me or my country, but what lies within yourself.
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Post by HA on Jun 8, 2004 13:51:21 GMT -5
The same way that ordinary pious Muslims are appalled by Militant Islamists and their deeds.
The same way Americans accept, condon, glorify, and applaud Israel and its extermination policies vis-à-vis Palestinians. And let's not ask who started it - everybody knows the answer.
First - radical christians are also ingrained with hate against Muslims. Second - How many innocent people have died because of Militant Islamists and how many because of US bombings. Bowling for Columbine contains a chapter on this.
Agressive yes but - unfortunately - right. As so many prominent Americans already state (Noam Chomsky, Woody Allen, Michael Moore, ...)
Thanks for the psychological analysis - too cheap though to be taken seriously.
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Post by inatent on Jun 8, 2004 14:34:11 GMT -5
The same way that ordinary pious Muslims are appalled by Militant Islamists and their deeds. . . . . Eh? Well, they certainly aren't very vocal about it then! inatent
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Post by no name on Jun 8, 2004 15:08:47 GMT -5
I admit being hostile to people who support governments that lie in order to support their decision to go to war to reinforce their imperialistic world dominance. And I will continue being - be sure for this. I admit to getting my back up when people make blindly hateful and wide-sweeping accusations about my country being "imperialistic", especially when such comments are fallacious. And I will continue having such reaction - be sure for this. Occasional visits and regular briefings about what is "going on" does not translate into having full knowledge and understanding of America or its people, especially since your so-called knowledge is tainted by your existing negative sentiments towards the U.S. Not because of his accuracy and fairness, that's for sure. I doubt it -- because, you see, his film doesn't promote warped and vicious anti-American tripe that is so popular among certain groups. Never said that. Capitalism is a wonderful thing, even though there are distasteful elements that profit from it as well. Actually, I've never said I know everything -- this is something you assumed on your own. The same way that ordinary pious Muslims are appalled by Militant Islamists and their deeds. I'm aware most normal Muslim people disagree with the actions of Militant/Jihadist terrorists. Unfortunately, there's not a loud outcry in the Muslim community against it, and influential clerics don't speak out against it often enough. Many of them are either too afraid they'll be targeted for disagreeing with the Militants, and some of them probably secretly condone their actions. Americans support Israel defending herself in her own war with Militant Islam. And Israel is not "exterminating" the Arab "Palestinians". The population of Arab "Palestinians" there has increased in number (in contrast to the Jewish population in the days of Hitler). I doubt it. Christians can find no support in their NT scriptures for making it their mission to purposefully target and killing innocent people. Militant Islamics do -- for one, they don't view the "infidels" as innocent; for another, they have ingrained within them the mentality that there is glory in their brutality and actions. Bowling for Columbine is well known for its misrepresentations, distortions, omissions, and inaccuracies. I think not. You're quite welcome After all, some of the best things in life are free.
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Post by Guess on Jun 8, 2004 16:34:36 GMT -5
I was and still am a victim of US policies. My country suffered for years because of them and I felt them on my flesh. However you will never undrestand this so at least you should not ridicule it. Is your country Germany?
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