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Post by To Bert on Apr 4, 2008 12:22:57 GMT -5
Bert's post noted. Predictable as usual and as useful to the general public as a wet newspaper.
Thanks for trying, Bert, but get yourself sorted. Are you a professing guy? It's hard to fathom you.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2008 12:23:42 GMT -5
I think there is some miscommunication going on here. We are not all talking about the same thing. Definitions change between areas of the world. And I agree, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with corporal punishment. Prove otherwise in a fair, unbiased research paper.
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Post by Cant believe on Apr 4, 2008 12:37:26 GMT -5
It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are in denial that hurting a child is abuse.
Education of parent through the media is the way forward as well as urgent changes to the law.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2008 12:41:41 GMT -5
Lol. Media. Always believe everything in print.
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Post by Miscommunication on Apr 4, 2008 12:45:13 GMT -5
What miscommunication?
Everyone and anyone is free to state their opinion and defend it with reasons.
If you want research papers off you go to the library at any University you can alternately download on the internet.
The best research is people's experience and opinion.
Schools are a good place to go, talk to teachers about the effect of violence ( hitting, smacking, spanking, deliberately hurting, inflicting pain, on children's performance and learning.
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Post by Media on Apr 4, 2008 12:47:56 GMT -5
Lol. Media. Always believe everything in print. What print, Lol? Media includes TV and I should have said that. Good programmes needed.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2008 12:51:30 GMT -5
Better to lock them in a dark room anyway. If you cut off their food for several days, they realize they are bad and need to correct their behavior. I know it's true and right because I read it of several opinions.
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Post by 2 alana on Apr 4, 2008 13:07:14 GMT -5
Any form of violence against a child is ABUSE, whether it is called smacking, spanking, hitting, or worse. That's the thing about opinions. Everyone's got one. Sorry for your damaged childhood alana That's different and you know it. Children are not adults. Interaction with them must be different. Punishment: Part of learning. Yay. Then the rest of the world can go to hell. And IQ tests should be required for the right to procreate. NOTICE: Results may vary. Only a ignoramus would imply that their experience is indicative of all. I suppose beating adults makes you a better person? You're a fruit. Spanking shouldn't be a meeting issue. Believe it or not, you obsessed lunatic, not everything in life centers around the F&W.
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Post by oh please on Apr 4, 2008 13:11:04 GMT -5
It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are in denial that hurting a child is abuse. It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are too stupid to understand that the definition of "hurting" varies. My kid wanted some taffy after having a filling put in. I said no. That hurt him. It was not abuse. LOL. There you go be a good little lemming and do what the nazi's in the media tell you to do.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2008 13:14:57 GMT -5
heh heh This anonymous person has a way of saying what I filter in my posts. Funny stuff.
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Post by aileen on Apr 4, 2008 14:16:00 GMT -5
Its unbelievable how many people on this thread are in denial that failing to discipline a child is abuse.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2008 14:49:41 GMT -5
There are those who believe that because it is recorded in the Bible, "beat your child, he will not die, ..." that it is instruction for them today. Yet we all know children DO frequently die as a result of "beatings" at the hands of parents. For me, this is just one more example of removing instruction from the context to those to whom it was intended, and the meanings of the day, society and language in which it was recorded..
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Post by wet noodle whippin on Apr 4, 2008 15:57:32 GMT -5
FORTY LASHES WITH A WET NOODLE!!!
hey, it works for me... ;D ;D
ohhhhhh pooooorrrrrr babbbbbbbyyyyy.. LOL
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Post by Other Views on Apr 4, 2008 17:09:10 GMT -5
A careful look at U.S. crime statistics also refutes the idea that spanking equals more societal violence. Between 1985 and 1993, violent crime actually decreased by 20 per cent among males 25 or older, while it increased 65 per cent for males 18 to 24 and by 165 per cent for 14- to 17-year-old males. So those who grew up in a period of more spanking were, and are, less violent than younger people who have grown up in a period of declining approval and practice of spanking. This does not prove that a decrease in spanking makes societies more violent, but these statistics throw cold water on any notion that blames spanking for societal violence. Some may say, "Well, that's the U.S., they're crazier down there; there may be other reasons — availability of guns for instance — that have skewed the statistics." These doubters should consider Sweden, a historically nonviolent country and a favorite of antispanking advocates. The Swedish government outlawed spanking in 1979 and operated an extensive education program to wean parents away from corporal punishment. Since the ban, police reports of teen violence have soared sixfold, according to Statistics Sweden. "What is happening in Sweden is gang violence, mobbing as they call it over there," says non-abusive spanking researcher Dr. Robert Larzelere, a director of research at the Youth Care Building in Boys Town, Nebraska, and a vocal critic of the blanket antispanking position. "Violence has dramatically increased over the last decade or more." www.christian-parents.net/Children/C116_Bum_Rap.htmAs an American--of 60 years I can say that it appears to me that social decay has increased with a direct correlation to a lack of child discipline in the home in formative years. In my day if I tried to wear nose rings or butt pants: (you know the ones that look like there made for clowns and worn around your knees instead of waist) my pop would have had me on the carpet quick. Todays belief in free expression seems to mean a lack of sound parenting to include lack of discipline.
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Post by ooT on Apr 4, 2008 18:22:08 GMT -5
I realize societal opinion varies by locality, but as a teacher, most of the teachers I know where I live believe in spanking appropriately. No, not teachers spanking, but parents. Children who are disciplined properly, with or without spanking, stand out in a classroom.
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 4, 2008 18:22:10 GMT -5
Most often physical abuse of children has nothing to do with "correction" or with any genuine form of interest in teaching social behavior to the child - It is nothing else than expression of frustration and anger (although this would be denied). Most often in public situations, correctional abuse is simply the result of a selfish effort for parents to distance themselves from a child's behavior that they find embarrassing to themselves as parents. Spot on Edgar in my opinion! Sometimes you see a child getting smacked, and you know rightly the parent is just in real bad mood, and taking it out on the child... just because they see a nice packet of sweets that they like!
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Post by IllinoisGal on Apr 4, 2008 18:34:05 GMT -5
Just on the news this very night there was a couple who are now in jail in Evansville Indiana for killing there 3 yr old. They removed 3 other siblings and placed them in protective custody. The judge had sent these children back to the parents against the will of child protective services. They had tried to tell him it would be dangerous but he didnt listen and now 3 months down the road back with his parents the little guy is dead. Read the story on www.wsiltv.com
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Post by which direction on Apr 4, 2008 20:36:30 GMT -5
It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are in denial that hurting a child is abuse. Education of parent through the media is the way forward as well as urgent changes to the law. With enough 'education' people can belive that just about anything is right, or wrong. If you tell everyone for the next 50 years that spanking is wrong, most people will believe it. If you tell everyone for the next 50 years that it is OK, most people will believe it. So what you are really saying (IMO) is that your side must educate and pass laws to enforce your way of thinking.
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Post by So sad on Apr 4, 2008 20:41:33 GMT -5
It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are in denial that hurting a child is abuse. It's unbelievable how many people on this thread are too stupid to understand that the definition of "hurting" varies. My kid wanted some taffy after having a filling put in. I said no. That hurt him. It was not abuse. Really? Which of these definitions of hurt do you find acceptable for a parent to inflict on a child: 1. To cause physical damage or pain to; injure. 2. To cause mental or emotional suffering to; distress. 3. To cause physical damage to; harm. 4. To be detrimental to; hinder or impair. It is hard to believe that someone who rants on and on as you have yet still clings to the false ideas fabricated by Disney. Not a huge point but it does give an indication of your attention to detail and just how much you think for yourself. Talk about following the crowd! If the lemming story were true you would be in the middle of the pack.
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Post by helloo on Apr 4, 2008 20:45:46 GMT -5
Spanking is usually defined as corporal punishment that does not cause physical damage to the child. Some go further and state it does not involve any object and never with a closed hand (fist). If the damage goes beyond reddened skin, i.e., black and blue areas, cuts, contusions, broken bones, pulled hair, etc., it is usually classified as abuse. Just in case anyone missed this, here it is again. And to those who think that anything beyond talking to a child in a monotone voice is some kind of abuse , get a life.
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Post by l62 on Apr 4, 2008 21:01:28 GMT -5
www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/11922826.html.. commissioned by the Family Research Council, 76 percent of those surveyed said that spanking was an effective form of discipline in their home when they were children. That means that we have to send 76% of Americans to "re-education camp." "Where is it written that people with a social work degree know what's better for kids than their parents?" It is written in the minds of the "enlightened elite," and the rest of us must follow there wisdom.
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Post by In School on Apr 4, 2008 22:26:40 GMT -5
Back in the early Sixties many teachers in intermediate school had spanking board with holes. On occasion us trouble makers were made to bend over and grab our ankles while the teacher gave us one firm swat in the rear with that paddle. It was in the front of class. Let me tell you it did not kill us or make us want to hurt someone. It did give us a sting and learning lesson. If we continued to cut up then it was a trip to the principles office and a call to our papas. That was worse then all.
Now they replaced the paddles in the schools with youngsters having guns and knives and dope.
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Post by eyedeetentee on Apr 4, 2008 22:27:49 GMT -5
A careful look at U.S. crime statistics also refutes the idea that spanking equals more societal violence. Between 1985 and 1993, violent crime actually decreased by 20 per cent among males 25 or older, while it increased 65 per cent for males 18 to 24 and by 165 per cent for 14- to 17-year-old males. So those who grew up in a period of more spanking were, and are, less violent than younger people who have grown up in a period of declining approval and practice of spanking. This does not prove that a decrease in spanking makes societies more violent, but these statistics throw cold water on any notion that blames spanking for societal violence. Some may say, "Well, that's the U.S., they're crazier down there; there may be other reasons — availability of guns for instance — that have skewed the statistics." These doubters should consider Sweden, a historically nonviolent country and a favorite of antispanking advocates. The Swedish government outlawed spanking in 1979 and operated an extensive education program to wean parents away from corporal punishment. Since the ban, police reports of teen violence have soared sixfold, according to Statistics Sweden. "What is happening in Sweden is gang violence, mobbing as they call it over there," says non-abusive spanking researcher Dr. Robert Larzelere, a director of research at the Youth Care Building in Boys Town, Nebraska, and a vocal critic of the blanket antispanking position. "Violence has dramatically increased over the last decade or more." www.christian-parents.net/Children/C116_Bum_Rap.htmAs an American--of 60 years I can say that it appears to me that social decay has increased with a direct correlation to a lack of child discipline in the home in formative years. In my day if I tried to wear nose rings or butt pants: (you know the ones that look like there made for clowns and worn around your knees instead of waist) my pop would have had me on the carpet quick. Todays belief in free expression seems to mean a lack of sound parenting to include lack of discipline. Good post and research.
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Post by fissure on Apr 4, 2008 23:19:00 GMT -5
I realize societal opinion varies by locality, but as a teacher, most of the teachers I know where I live believe in spanking appropriately. No, not teachers spanking, but parents. Children who are disciplined properly, with or without spanking, stand out in a classroom. I have seen that in the classroom, also. Those with behavioral correction are much better students in general. And those who are in abusive homes, or those parents who severely beat their kids for whatever reason, are noted as well. Those kids are usually terrible in school. I suppose their minds are distracted daily hoping that when they get home, they won't be beat again by their dads, moms, step-parents, mom's boyfriend, brother(s), etc. I really feel sorry for those kids who get abused in any form. But there is no reason to pity the kids who are reasonably taught the difference between right and wrong. Many of them receive spankings or slaps for correction and many of them are excellent students. I find it difficult to remember their names because they are the good ones in class, respecting their elders, and doing their work as told. Then there are those who are ignored at home. Their parents gave up years ago or never have corrected them. They are the terrorizers. They usually do not make it through their senior year though so they are not a problem for very long. But I feel for the law enforcement people when those kids quit school and cause trouble in town. Shoot, they serve a purpose too. Without the snakes of life, where could people find drugs and guns?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 4:19:51 GMT -5
Please notice that those who support anti-spanking IGNORED the entry by "Other Views." Why bother arguing with people who consistently ignore you?
The Swedish government outlawed spanking in 1979 and operated an extensive education program to wean parents away from corporal punishment. Since the ban, police reports of teen violence have soared sixfold, according to Statistics Sweden. "What is happening in Sweden is gang violence, mobbing as they call it over there," says non-abusive spanking researcher Dr. Robert Larzelere, a director of research at the Youth Care Building in Boys Town, Nebraska, and a vocal critic of the blanket antispanking position. "Violence has dramatically increased over the last decade or more."
Anti-spanking in itself isn't fully to blame for the explosive increase in violence, but rather, the whole liberal and progressive culture, which abhors religious authority, is to blame.
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Post by botany on Apr 5, 2008 9:37:22 GMT -5
The backside of the hand ain't beatin'! I'll show ya a beatin'! Gonna go get me a rusty pipe... andy
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 10:04:40 GMT -5
Please notice that those who support anti-spanking IGNORED the entry by "Other Views." Why bother arguing with people who consistently ignore you?The Swedish government outlawed spanking in 1979 and operated an extensive education program to wean parents away from corporal punishment. Since the ban, police reports of teen violence have soared sixfold, according to Statistics Sweden. "What is happening in Sweden is gang violence, mobbing as they call it over there," says non-abusive spanking researcher Dr. Robert Larzelere, a director of research at the Youth Care Building in Boys Town, Nebraska, and a vocal critic of the blanket antispanking position. " Violence has dramatically increased over the last decade or more." Anti-spanking in itself isn't fully to blame for the explosive increase in violence, but rather, the whole liberal and progressive culture, which abhors religious authority, is to blame. Bert, I am not sure where you get your figures, they are not the same ones that our officials work with -- I am aware that violence has increased the last 20 years -- but compared to American figures, all violent crime is far less than half per capita of all American major states. My wife is a professional working with juvenile crime, and points to statistics that a major part of all the serious juvenile violent crime comes from homes where the parents are also violent offenders. The children of abusers very often become abusers themselves. This is true both of violent crime and sexual crime. I just read that in 2001 we had 59 people per 100 000 in our jail system --- The US had 682!! The only crime that Sweden had a higher rate than the US was in bicycle theft!!! I will admit that statistics can be twisted and used at will, but it would be a long stretch of the imagination to imply that Sweden had anywhere near as much violent crime as any of the more conservative western countries. Sweden has zero tolerance on nearly all forms of violence, of course this does mean that pretty much all bar room brawls end up in the statistics. -- The Swedish term, mobbing, as you mentioned it, is an effort in our country to regard psychological violence as a punishable crime as well. Edgar Here is the American description of the situation in Sweden travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1032.htmlRead what is says about crime. Edgar Bert, regarding your last sentence --- Do you think that reliqions should be an authority in our society?
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Post by impressed on Apr 5, 2008 21:47:03 GMT -5
We americans have always been impressed with Sweden!
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