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Post by Opinion on Jun 9, 2006 10:29:27 GMT -5
I get so tired of professing folks whining about "bitter exes!' Bitter exes are the minority of folks who post here. And some of these souls have been through hell from people they loved and trusted. I think some friends and pro-professing ex-friends love to make judgements on certain posters because they aren't praising and worship THE SYSTEM!!
I think some here have overused the word BITTER! If you think there are bitter folks here, go visit message boards of ex-Mormans, ex-Jehovah Witnesses and ex-Exclusive Brethern!
How do you define "bitter?" What makes you bitter? Pointing out flaws in the system?
I think it is a chance to ridicule and judge. Nothing more and nothing less. You love your little group and don't want to see anyone run it down. That is your right to feel that way. However, if someone else points out flaws in the SYSTEM, that doesn't make them bitter. Many of us love the friends and workers as people. We just disagree with exclusivism, legalism and minister worship in ANY FELLOWSHIP!!!!!
When you complain about the "bitterness" on these websites, please ask yourself "Are they really bitter?"!!
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Maggie
Senior Member
Posts: 347
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Post by Maggie on Jun 9, 2006 10:56:34 GMT -5
I agree almost completely with what you say. Thanks for your considered words.
However, I believe that the "bitter exes" epithet is often far more than just "a chance to ridicule and judge" all though it is certainly that. It is so often (especially by workers) a chance to stab, slash at and make a negative example of those who are injured and hurting and have the gall to bleed on the shoes of those who have abused them.
It just amazes me how easily some throw out that label and it is never, in my experience, meant to comfort or care for those who are hurting. It is used as a bludgeon of condemnation and contempt.
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Post by human nature on Jun 9, 2006 11:14:31 GMT -5
It is human nature to "categorize", "label", and then "dismiss". This save wear and tear on the brain. An already over-taxed mind needs all the rest it can get.
It is important to be able to dismiss all who disagree, without having to examine the validity of their position. This saves one from the possibility of maybe having to alter one's situation.
"He's a this", or "she's a that". They've been safely labled; no need to give them any further consideration.
ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM
Description: An argument that attempts to disprove the truth of what is asserted by attacking the speaker rather than the speaker's argument. Another way of putting it: Fallacy where you attack someone's character instead of dealing with salient issues. There are two basic types of ad hominem arguments: (1) abusive, and (2) circumstantial.
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Post by two sided story on Jun 9, 2006 11:57:55 GMT -5
I think the bitter ex's are the polar opposites of the 2x2's in denial.
Both 'sides' have their extremists.
I ignore both.
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Maggie
Senior Member
Posts: 347
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Post by Maggie on Jun 9, 2006 11:59:25 GMT -5
You're right. We as humans do tend to categorize, label and dismiss things that we don't believe are important or things that we don't want to face up to.
But it is also part of the human heart to love and care for those we love, show compassion for and deal compassionately with others who are hurting and injured....if we are healthy enough to see past our own pain and dysfunction. There are a great many people in my circle of experience who are able to do this in many instances.
Dismissing all who disagree without examining the validity of their position is not something everyone does. There are lots of people in the world today who act with integrity, courtesy and compassion. But when we are told (and we teach our children) that most people are not like this, like so many in the 2x2 group, many give themselves permission to express contempt and ridicule others.
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 9, 2006 12:53:29 GMT -5
And I get so tired of exes whining about professing people whining about bitter exes...
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Post by nathan9 unplugged on Jun 9, 2006 13:05:44 GMT -5
Bryan, I would like to thank you for not taking umbrage at me posting "thanks" to "Nathan9" on your behalf on another thread. I think this not only helps us all to move forward, but firmly asserts yourself as a man of true courage and understanding !
My sincere thanks again.
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Post by as i c it on Jun 9, 2006 14:13:33 GMT -5
Bryanfrom alaska,
tsk tsk tsk...How much would it have cost you to have either just ignored this thread or to offered an ear to hear, and a heart that felt some human kindness to those whose lost everything they once loved so much...
From the high opinion expressed of you by others (on other threads) I hardly think that you'd deliberately walk over and kick another who was already lying on the ground and wounded...so...why do it to them when they lay bare the tender side of their hearts and souls?
Stoop to help and heal...not pour more salt on open wounds...makes for a nicer slice of humanity in the world.
As to bitter exes:
When I first came to the sites, I expected to find sooo much bitterness and anger--all unfairly being expressed. And instead--I found next to none!
Every negative emotive expressed--seemed to have a reasonable cause. And if I'd walked in their mocassins, and gone through the same experiences, I'd have felt the same: and reacted the same: because God did a "funny thing"...in that...He made us all the same! (And to react "just the same"--to the same good and bad emotions that dwell within us).
Edgar used to say that the individuals in Alberta didn't care--and yet--I recall a posting from an Albertan where the poster responded to Walter (clearly showing a great deal of care--that had taken place during the time of the event--and in her communications with Walter (on that thread) the caring was clearly still there. In fact, my impression of that conversation was that the individual cared so much...that she STILL couldn't handle it...And as a result, let Walter know that she was terminating their conversation.
The 2 x 2 faith touches and affects and influences every other decision an individual often makes in their life: and for that of their family's life. When our illusion of perfection falls off its pedestal...and we discover so much (often all at once)...this is the one place (and only place) anyone can go...and vent: and re-balance: and re-build their lives--without having to try to explain (to uncomprehending outsiders) what "everything you're going through"...is all about.
So--if someone's bitter...so be it. Better to vent here...than hear they turned into a postie! Or took their own lives.
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Post by as i c it on Jun 9, 2006 14:36:20 GMT -5
Bryanfromalaska,
I apologize for what I just posted. There was no need for me to "moralize" to you...and I intended to erase it. Unfortunately, I was already on the second screen--and didn't realize/remember that: with my name already posted as well. So when I hit "post reply" (to go to the second screen)...off when the posting...with my comments to you undeleted. Sorry.
Whatever your complaints with the exes--I should have left you to work out with them.
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 9, 2006 14:50:30 GMT -5
I understand and except your words… And out of the context of this whole board over the last 5+ years it would seem that my posts sometimes lack sensitivity and heartfelt care for those originating the threads.
But what you fail to realize is that there are one or two anonymous posters who make up 80% of the gossip/dolling posts like the one above. This person or persons continually think up new ways to talk about the fellowship and whine and moan about the system. While some of their points are valid, the continued pace in which they post these gossip/dolling comments wears one down to the point of rebuffing their posts that do not actually add to the overall conversation on this board.
I would ask that you pay special attention for these gossip/dolling posts and see for yourself exactly how common and prevalent they are on this board.
May I suggest then that you were not fully under the 2x2 mindset…
I have found out that any opposition or any challenge to the 2x2 system almost always beings out the terms bitterness and unwillingness from those under the 2x2 mindset.
Venting only releases pressure. I would argue that fining and fixing the cause of the pressure is much more valuable then venting it from time to time. And this is what we see here with the few anonymous posters who feel justified in their self-righteousness and indignation to vent continuously instead of fixing the problem that leads them to vent.
Justifying bitterness is not a position I care to take… and I’m sorry to see you feel it’s ok to do so…
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 9, 2006 14:51:07 GMT -5
Bryanfromalaska, I apologize for what I just posted. There was no need for me to "moralize" to you...and I intended to erase it. Unfortunately, I was already on the second screen--and didn't realize/remember that: with my name already posted as well. So when I hit "post reply" (to go to the second screen)...off when the posting...with my comments to you undeleted. Sorry. Whatever your complaints with the exes--I should have left you to work out with them. no worries...
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Post by as i c it on Jun 9, 2006 16:39:57 GMT -5
bryanfromalaska,
Thank you for accepting my apology (and I'm glad I did apologize) because you're right: I did misjudge you, by not realizing that what you said was all part of a long-standing (and on-going "conversation") that had carried on for some time.
You're right. I wasn't completely of the 2x2 mindset when I came to the sites. (And therefore, I guess I could see the truth expressed, without seeing it as "bitterness" or "unwillingness".)
As to justifying bitterness: I don't (in reality). But what I do recognize is that where there are wounds that cut deep, it takes a long time to heal (repair and re-balance). And part of what is taking them so long is because...they can't fight it out with the workers.
Personally, I think ALL involved should head to the nearest convention grounds--and just have it out...until..they can depart in "peace". Rules could stipulate all fighting took place only in certain buildings--and all other areas were neutral territory. Everyone concerned (workers included) could just let it all out: with everyone agreeing to get amnesia about everything that was said the moment they left the grounds.
And those not involved: Could make meals: calm/heal/and enforce the rules--and haul away the dead.
Well, that's my solution. What's yours?
Thanks again for accepting my apology. It's been good getting to know you.
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Post by ex of all exes on Jun 9, 2006 19:08:12 GMT -5
YOU BET WERE BITTER AND PISSED -WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE ON THIS BOARD ,TO PRAISE THESE PEOPLE?WE WILL GET EVEN!!!!
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 9, 2006 19:17:23 GMT -5
I understand… And I want to use an analogy of a little kid who has fallen down and got hurt from hitting their head or something… Now it’s understandable that they’re going to cry, be upset, and hurt… but how much time to you give them and/or comfort them to you start rolling your eyes? We’ve all seen the kid who won’t stop crying over a valid injury, but their wailing does not match their wound. At some point they need to snap out of it and you need to give them some tough love instead of comforting them.
Hope this makes sense…
But they can’t leave in peace because the peace people want cannot be found or resolved by going to the convention grounds and having it out… there comes a point where you need to let go and give it to God… instead people keep hanging on and want absolute justice for every wrong doing… and guess what, life doesn’t work that way and if they live by this mindset they will be angry and bitter for the reminder of their lives…
Take time to heal, give it to God, and get over it…
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Post by amazed on Jun 9, 2006 19:27:35 GMT -5
YOU BET WERE BITTER AND PISSED -WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE ON THIS BOARD ,TO PRAISE THESE PEOPLE?WE WILL GET EVEN!!!! I wonder how many of this type of post are actually from "bitter exes" and how many are just from people trying to make exes look bad?
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Post by ExBitter on Jun 9, 2006 19:28:24 GMT -5
The problem is those in the kingdom who deny that errors of doctrine have occured. The so-called bitterness isn't going to go away. Someone may get over their experience and become less bitter. But some new person to anti-truth websites (as they call them) will get angry that they were misled by the hidden history, rules of dress/entertainment etc.. So one bitter ex-friend moves on but another person discovers the internet sites and gets upset. Don't expect the head workers to address any concerns on these websites. Sometimes you make two steps forward and one step backwards.
However, you cannot change others whether they be exclusive professing folks or so called "bitter exes!" You can frustrate yourself trying to change others.
There was a man who set out to change the world. When he saw he couldn't change the world, he decided to change his country. Then he tried to change his community and finally his family. When he saw he couldn't change anyone else, he decided to change himself.
We can appear to be bitter on these forums but most of us have a life away from TMB. It may not appear that way based on reading forums like this. I am glad I have changed in many ways. But if someone comes here mad as hell, I understand. I don't ridicule them. I don't ridicule the staunch only wayers in the kingdom since I have also been there and done that!
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Post by as i c it on Jun 9, 2006 19:58:03 GMT -5
Very good, Bryanfromalaska! And I agree (in many ways) with what you have to say. However: there's often a couple of differences between a physical wound and an emotional/spiritual one that might be worth pointing out.
With a physical wound, everyone can see the wound, and know, therefore, the depth of the injury. Therefore, (first) they all rush to offer aid and comfort to the wounded child (thus validating the child's pain...and then soothing the kid. Until they decide that "enough's enough": with that statement (and level of tolerance for the "fuss" made) directly linked to the level of injury.
Emotional/soul pain: We can't see. And one of their "complaints" is: The comforters were there for them. (or able to be?) Had they been...maybe all would be over. (?)
That said: I agree with you. There is a point in time when tough love is befriending them more than sympathy.
Did they (all) talk things out? Were proper explanations given? "Arguments" (as to conscience etc) "allowed"? (The tape...gives a very negative impression)
But again (that said): You are a wise counsellor. And a good friend to them. And so, I have to agree with you.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jun 9, 2006 20:09:27 GMT -5
Every now and then you truly do come across a bitter ex or two, but then again, I know plenty of bitter "non-ex's".
The majority of posts here (by ex's) are just to tell their story, to heal. Maybe it sounds like whining, or maybe even bitterness, but I totally understand where y'all are coming from, because I've been in similar places myself- even though I do still attend and take part in meetings.
I think there are some who would like to think that this is just a place of "bitter ex's" who were "unwilling for what Jesus had to offer". For the record, I don't believe that at all.
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therapeutic expression
Guest
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Post by therapeutic expression on Jun 10, 2006 0:35:03 GMT -5
TMB is a place where therapeutic expression can occur. Bitterness may work itself out, and eventually be replaced by peace.
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Maggie
Senior Member
Posts: 347
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Post by Maggie on Jun 12, 2006 10:09:08 GMT -5
...... … And I want to use an analogy of a little kid who has fallen down and got hurt from hitting their head or something… Now it’s understandable that they’re going to cry, be upset, and hurt… but how much time to you give them and/or comfort them to you start rolling your eyes? We’ve all seen the kid who won’t stop crying over a valid injury, but their wailing does not match their wound. At some point they need to snap out of it and you need to give them some tough love instead of comforting them. Hope this makes sense… .................. You might want to consider a few points with regard to the analogy you used. First, you are comparing a young child who has fallen down to a situation where a person has been bullied, lied to, stabbed in the gut (not only stabbed in the back), kicked in the face and then thrown against the fence outside the school yard and isolated from most previous relationships and then a continued campaign of lies, slander and bad-mouthing against them. I think you may have badly distorted what is going on here. You have minimized the hurt and the origin of the trauma and, it seems, now that you are feeling better, you are just bloody sick and tired of all these other people who are perhaps much more grievously wounded than you ever where. The arrogance and dismissive attitude expressed in this post of yours is stunning and a bit out of character for you. Perhaps it isn't and that is really how you've always felt. I don't know but it breaks my heart to see you a part of the dispargment of these hurting, dear souls who have been mistreated. You say "their wailing does not match their wound". How in God's name would you be in a position to make such a contemptuous statement??
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 11:59:37 GMT -5
My analogy in the context of this thread has more to do with the reaction to such hurt and pain, rather then the hurt and pain itself…
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
My analogy in the context of this thread is focused on the reaction of such hurt and trauma, not the hurt and trauma itself…
Stop… breathe… step back… and look at the context of this thread… It as to do with a one or two people who continually doll/gossip/moan about the system on a day to day bases by coming up with stupid topics to discuss and put down the system so they can feel better about themselves in their bitterness. Please do not assume that I am saying scraping a knee is the same thing as being ‘hurt’ by the 2x2 fellowship.
No it is not… I have historically challenged this person and their frivolous gossip/bitter posts on this board. Do not look past the context of my words…
And it breaks my heart to see one or two people muck up this board because they choose not to move on and address their problems, but instead revel/wallow in their bitterness/hate and enjoy doing so…
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 12:02:28 GMT -5
From reading over and over and over and over again their countless posts which are founded in total contempt and bitterness… Perhaps you will one day see that the person doing this enjoys their mockery and disdain, rather then it being a cry for help.
Do you assume I am talking about more then one person on here?
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hmm
New Member
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Post by hmm on Jun 12, 2006 13:48:39 GMT -5
Is his initials LS?
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 13:54:43 GMT -5
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Post by Talk about it on Jun 12, 2006 14:18:21 GMT -5
Bryanfromalaska: How did you learn the truth about Truth? Or did you?
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 14:25:35 GMT -5
Bryanfromalaska: How did you learn the truth about Truth? Or did you? Short answer - the websites
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Post by Talk about it on Jun 12, 2006 14:32:39 GMT -5
Short answer - the websites Were you B&R? What drove you to the websites?
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Post by Bryanfromalaska on Jun 12, 2006 14:36:35 GMT -5
Short answer - the websites Were you B&R? What drove you to the websites? yes looking for poems written by professing people as a reply to a Christian poem sent to me via email from a friend.
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