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Post by Roy on May 28, 2006 18:57:40 GMT -5
Did anyone do the act of "Profess" in the Bible? I haven't seen any.
The workers ask the "Invitation", then we sing a hymn, then after the 2nd verse those who want to profess, please stand.
Any scripture for doing this? Any scripture for waiting for some future date before Baptism?
I was B&R 2x2 and in it myself for 50 years. I sure would like to see where that protocal was used in the scripture.
What I have found is that they heard, then baptized.
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Post by Rob O on May 28, 2006 19:23:28 GMT -5
No scripture for their version. But that doesn't make it intrinsically wrong.
What is wrong is when they require "outsiders" to attend many "gospel" missions before being allowed to "make their choice". In scripture, people heard the gospel and many responded immediately because it was a work of God in the heart, not an act of indoctrination by man. Also, baptism could be done straight away. They did not have to "prove" their "profession". Also, it is the responsibility of the individual to decide if they will participate in the Eucharist or not. It is not the place of the workers or the elders to decide this for others.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 5:26:44 GMT -5
Hi Roy. We use the word "professing" because that is how Paul's word is translated in our bibles. Its used in Timothy in several places, ie "professed a good profession before many witnesses."And when Paul was preaching he said "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me..."As for baptism protocol, it does say that many were baptised upon hearing. We tend towards asking people to give pause before taking that move. It is a serious matter to us. Roy, I have a website which covers the universally ignored practices of the foundation church. You can find it at home.iprimus.com.au/pruephillip/
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Post by nitro on May 29, 2006 5:38:57 GMT -5
To Mildly Curious are you from the Outback and I don't mean steakhouse? Rob or clay will have an answer to that in a very short while.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 5:43:02 GMT -5
Hi Nitro - are you saying they will have an answer to my outback living?
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Post by not me on May 29, 2006 6:19:06 GMT -5
Its often stated on this board how 2x2s do things as if the way the wroter experienced it is the universal, worldwide method, and no variations exist.
For example "The workers ask the "Invitation", then we sing a hymn, then after the 2nd verse those who want to profess, please stand."
This is probably the way you saw it for 50 years, but not the way others do it everywhere.
and "Any scripture for doing this? Any scripture for waiting for some future date before Baptism?"
Common but not a hard and fast rule.
My experience for example: Baptised at the first opportunity, which was 3 weeks after the first meeting of a worker (not B&R), and the first gospel meeting.
Did not "profess" in the way described above, did not stand after the second verse, (didn't stand after any verse). I just asked the workers if I could join their church, and they immediately invited me to a Sunday meeting. I spoke at the first one I attended. Took emblems that day.
I know that I'm a little exceptional, but by no means unique.
So please: Although your experience is valid in your area, please do not assume that on this INTERNATIONAL board, that the idiosyncrasies of your local workers are held internationally. Theyre NOT. And don't assume that because it happens in USA it happens everywhere. Its well acknowledged that the USA 2x2s are adrift from the original, from the mainstream.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on May 29, 2006 6:52:05 GMT -5
From the website: "Veterans of Truth suppose they are a modern phenomena, but they have been from the beginning." No. That is not correct. The commonly allowed teaching of the friends and workers is "we go back to the days of Jesus," but they have a beginning far more recent than that. You started your webpage with a premise that does not exist. This is so common for the dishonest that want to cast a shadow on people they do not like or on people that do thinks they do not like. From the website: "The acronym VOT stands for “Veterans of Truth.” VOT’s are apostates who are in the business of self justification.| The VOT website was/is about the friends and workers who are apostates. As you quote John...“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been with us, they would have continued with us:" 1 John 2:19. Indeed. It was the workers and their subsequent friends/converts that "went out form us". That's enough, I guess.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 7:35:14 GMT -5
Hi Greg. When people in the bible spoke about spiritual things they often spoke on different levels. Jesus did this when he said that Lazarus was sleeping. Only, Lazarus was not sleeping. Why would Jesus confuse his own with such talk? I think he wanted them to understand that language exists on different planes.
It says in the bible that there has always been a Truth which is Eternal. We know, from that same book, that it was not eternal in a natural sense. I counted, what, 13 times when there appeared to be no truth at all? It is possible that the truth didn't last more than a few generations at a time?
When people say my faith is "from the beginning" they mean simply this - there is a truth which is from the beginning, not a body of people. I know people often interpret it that way.
As a boy, I used to think in terms of an unbroken line - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know?
I am sure that if my faith was on an unbroken line of succession from the first apostles, and had the documents to prove it - we wouldn't see such documents because that is not the point of the gospel.
Greg. What church do you belong to? If you feel that my faith is not in keeping with the practices of that foundation church, what then do you practice?
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Post by RobO unlogged on May 29, 2006 7:46:52 GMT -5
Prue wrote,
I know people often interpret it that way.
As a boy, I used to - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know?
Why would you write "as a boy" if you are a female? Are you really a male, Prue? Was that a big Freudian slip? Have you been dishonest in implying you are a female?
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Post by Rob O on May 29, 2006 7:49:20 GMT -5
Hi Greg. When people in the bible spoke about spiritual things they often spoke on different levels. Jesus did this when he said that Lazarus was sleeping. Only, Lazarus was not sleeping. Why would Jesus confuse his own with such talk? I think he wanted them to understand that language exists on different planes. It says in the bible that there has always been a Truth which is Eternal. We know, from that same book, that it was not eternal in a natural sense. I counted, what, 13 times when there appeared to be no truth at all? It is possible that the truth didn't last more than a few generations at a time? When people say my faith is "from the beginning" they mean simply this - there is a truth which is from the beginning, not a body of people. I know people often interpret it that way. As a boy, I used to think in terms of an unbroken line - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know? I am sure that if my faith was on an unbroken line of succession from the first apostles, and had the documents to prove it - we wouldn't see such documents because that is not the point of the gospel. Greg. What church do you belong to? If you feel that my faith is not in keeping with the practices of that foundation church, what then do you practice? For posterity. ;D
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 7:49:24 GMT -5
sorry, my speed typing again. I used to be a typist once
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Post by Rob O on May 29, 2006 7:50:46 GMT -5
I don't believe that was a typo. I believe that was a big slip in your cover.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 7:52:44 GMT -5
sorry, my speed typing again. I used to be a typist once. p.s. as in, "play the ball, not the man" (or woman) That is an Aussie saying, meaning, address the issue, not the person.
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Post by Rob O on May 29, 2006 7:58:25 GMT -5
Nup. You've done your dash. That's another Aussie saying meaning "You blew it".
There is no way any male would make a typo of "when I was a girl".
There have been many people on this forum claiming to be someone they're not. Nothing new there. We've come to expect it - especially false claims from ardent 2x2 apologists.
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Post by firstborn on May 29, 2006 8:07:09 GMT -5
sorry, my speed typing again. I used to be a typist once. p.s. as in, "play the ball, not the man" (or woman) That is an Aussie saying, meaning, address the issue, not the person. In the states it's called your skirt en the issue.
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Post by Rob O on May 29, 2006 8:14:00 GMT -5
You may be telling the truth, but I doubt it since 2x2 apologists have often shown deceit is completely acceptable in defense of their religion.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 8:22:04 GMT -5
Rob, a bit of ad hominem here? Have you found any deceit on my web site?
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Post by Rob O on May 29, 2006 8:26:00 GMT -5
Now who's skirting.
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Post by uker260702 on May 29, 2006 8:35:30 GMT -5
Hi Greg. When people in the bible spoke about spiritual things they often spoke on different levels. Jesus did this when he said that Lazarus was sleeping. Only, Lazarus was not sleeping. Why would Jesus confuse his own with such talk? I think he wanted them to understand that language exists on different planes. It says in the bible that there has always been a Truth which is Eternal. We know, from that same book, that it was not eternal in a natural sense. I counted, what, 13 times when there appeared to be no truth at all? It is possible that the truth didn't last more than a few generations at a time? When people say my faith is "from the beginning" they mean simply this - there is a truth which is from the beginning, not a body of people. I know people often interpret it that way. As a boy, I used to think in terms of an unbroken line - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know? I am sure that if my faith was on an unbroken line of succession from the first apostles, and had the documents to prove it - we wouldn't see such documents because that is not the point of the gospel. Greg. What church do you belong to? If you feel that my faith is not in keeping with the practices of that foundation church, what then do you practice? For posterity. ;D Did you think there might be a chance it would be edited slightly Rob? ;D
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Post by OzE on May 29, 2006 8:40:10 GMT -5
Thinking exactly the same thing!
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Post by Gene on May 29, 2006 8:48:41 GMT -5
Prue, I'm disappointed in you.
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 8:48:45 GMT -5
Hey, quit ganging up on me
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Post by junia on May 29, 2006 8:50:53 GMT -5
As a boy, I used to think in terms of an unbroken line - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know? What is it Prue? Are you male or female? I'm sorry but I don't buy your "explanation" of being a speed typist either. If you're being deceitful, your credibility has dropped to zero. It's time to come clean.
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Post by Gene on May 29, 2006 8:54:46 GMT -5
Hey! Prue is a ladies name... at least, here in Australia! As a boy, I used to think in terms of an unbroken line - but then, it didn't make sense, how would anyone know?
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Post by prue on May 29, 2006 9:09:52 GMT -5
Hi Junia. my name is Prue Phillip. I am a lady. this is my registered account and my own I.S.P. connection. my partner helps me. I am sorry if this annoys you. it should make no difference to anything I wish to say on this board.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on May 29, 2006 9:29:16 GMT -5
Seems highly improbable - though anything is possible - that a female would post "when I was a boy".
Perhaps someone else is posting along with Prue and that someone is a male.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on May 29, 2006 9:36:36 GMT -5
It says in the bible that there has always been a Truth which is Eternal. We know, from that same book, that it was not eternal in a natural sense. I counted, what, 13 times when there appeared to be no truth at all? It is possible that the truth didn't last more than a few generations at a time? I don't know what you mean by "...there has always been a Truth...". "Truth" being what? So, 13 times or so this "Truth/truth" did not exist? I have questions in mind on that, but in not knowing what you mean by "Truth" or 'truth" I am not sure on how to present them.
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Post by Gene on May 29, 2006 9:38:49 GMT -5
Hi Junia. my name is Prue Phillip. I am a lady. this is my registered account and my own I.S.P. connection. my partner helps me. I am sorry if this annoys you. it should make no difference to anything I wish to say on this board. Prue, I agree, gender makes no difference to anything you wish to say on this board. And a little play-acting, whether pretending to be another gender or pretending to be a solitary poster when in fact there are two people posting, would make little difference on most boards. But on this board, coming from you, a current f&w, deceit of any kind should be absolutly avoided. If nothing else, you're guilty of poor judgement regarding this.
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