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Post by amazed on May 28, 2006 20:32:05 GMT -5
Not the part about the Holy Spirit, it's the part about taking a stand. I don't know how to explain it. It is more the phrase, like "who took their stand last night?" and "Are you professing?". That kind of thing that seems to rub me the wrong way. I don't mean it in an offense against the choice you made or anyone else. It's more a leftover thing in my mind I guess. It is not meant to take anything away from what you or anyone else has done. I'm sorry I said it that way.
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Post by bluejay on May 28, 2006 20:38:11 GMT -5
Just a matter of interest, I've always heard the question asked as: "Who did you profess through?
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Post by jessi01 on May 28, 2006 21:03:02 GMT -5
The KJV says He's an IT. Must have been a MISTAKE!!! I read this book, "God's Word in Our Hands," explaining the process of translation and new versions, etc. The New King James Version, of course, corrects the KJV MISTAKE of calling the Holy Spirit an IT! My parents say, "Oh, the Holy Spirit? Well now THAT is a whole other THING."
Christ's Jessi
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Post by Rob O on May 28, 2006 21:14:48 GMT -5
Jessi, There's no mistake. Yes, the Holy Spirit is a Person of the Godhead etc etc but in the Greek text the neuter pronoun is occasionally used.(eg. Jn.2:17 where the Greek personal, neutral pronoun auto is often translated "him" rather than "it"). I would make nothing of this as none of the Persons of God are truly male or female as those designations are just part of our physiology and psychology. God has chosen to refer to Himself as a He, but we should understand that in terms of communicable attributes, not physiology. (Ps. Jessi, I'm not suggesting you think otherwise as going by your posts I'm sure you're a card-carrying Trinitarian ) Pps. To further complicate things I should emphasise that "it" in Greek is not necessarily referring to a non-personal entity or event. For example, the same word (with the same parsing) is used in Mark 9:18 to refer to a demon. "It" in Greek can simply refer to a person of unspecified gender.
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Post by underthrough on Jun 5, 2006 13:42:40 GMT -5
Just a matter of interest, I've always heard the question asked as: "Who did you profess through? Some difference in terms here, yet the implication is still that one professes to God via a worker. There could be one to SEVERAL workers and FRIENDS [let's not forget the friends] who bring messages to a person. Professing starts in the heart and soul and hopefully culminates to one confessing/taking a public stand of that new belief which is in the heart. I would say that often the worker who very first brought the message is not the one who tested the meeting; and the one who tests the meeting where one professes is the one who is there when the time is 'right'. Each worker, [to me] is special in their own way in how they touch your heart and bring messages that speak to your soul. Each one. Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
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Post by selah on Jun 5, 2006 13:55:32 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. There is no name given under heaven by which you must be saved, except Jesus Christ.
The workers in Red Deer, Alberta when I professed were Harriet Borthwick and Emily Kalyn.
The next year I lived in Champion, Alberta where Myrtle Proctor and Emily Kalyn were having meetings. Emily counselled me concerning baptism, and I was baptised by Arnold Blonke at Lacombe convention in 1978.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by selah on Jun 5, 2006 15:00:29 GMT -5
I may have heard about Jesus atoning sacrifice through the workers, but it wasn't until after I left the fellowship that I heard about the rightousness of Christ being credited to my account. I never heard about the "gift" of salvation in the meetings, but often heard of it spoken as a "heavenly reward" for the faithful. I never thought of salvation as a personal gift to me; something I needed to receive. My profession was simply that I sincerly wanted to serve God and please Him, no matter what. I believe God heard my confession and honored my profession by eventually leading me into a personal relationship with Jesus; a committed covenant relationship.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by I bet on Jun 5, 2006 18:13:25 GMT -5
nathan9 - You've be around since 1878. Someone's lying. No beginning until 1897 about. And Leo & Larry were the ones way back then?
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Post by Stand up on Jun 5, 2006 18:34:03 GMT -5
It is hard to get over that feeling of the workers controlling so much of our lives. This is a two way street. People cannot control you unless you allow it to happen. Sometimes you have to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and stop playing the blame game.
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Post by Amen on Jun 5, 2006 18:59:50 GMT -5
It is hard to get over that feeling of the workers controlling so much of our lives. This is a two way street. People cannot control you unless you allow it to happen. Sometimes you have to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and stop playing the blame game. Amen!
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whats the difference
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Post by whats the difference on Jun 21, 2006 18:05:58 GMT -5
What's the difference between professing "under" one of the workers and "professing" in a Billy Graham revival?
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ian
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Post by ian on Jun 22, 2006 12:21:32 GMT -5
"under" ? sounds ominous
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Post by ilylo on Jun 22, 2006 12:50:38 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and stop playing the blame game. Heaven forbid that the workers should be held accountable for their actions. No way.
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Post by Falselabor on Jun 22, 2006 21:20:24 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and stop playing the blame game. Heaven forbid that the workers should be held accountable for their actions. No way. Ilylo is still laboring under the idea that people can control other people without their consent. As has been pointed out numerous times, everyone should be held responsible for their acts. But if you allow someone else to control you it does not remove this responsibility. If a worker tells you to steal and you do, you are responsible for the theft. No one is saying that the workers are without blame as well but that is another issue. You keep chanting "Protect the system" when in reality what you are doing is advocating passing the blame and refusing to take responsibility for your own acts. You sound like Flip Wilson - "The Devil made me do it".
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Post by ilylo on Jun 22, 2006 22:22:28 GMT -5
to "falselabor"
I have not disagreed with your comment. However, your comment and my comment are about two separate things, so it is not logical to use them as points of debate against each other.
Using your point B to refute my point A is not going to resolve point A.
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Post by lilwolfmisty on Jun 23, 2006 0:32:27 GMT -5
The workers that hosted the meeting that I professed in at the age of 19 and I was pregnant with one baby in my arms. The workers were Audrey Miles and Letha Kelsey. The second time was at Olympia Convention and I don't remember who hosted that meeting. The third time I just talked to God and finally gave my life completely to him! So now I profess that JESUS is MY Lord and KING
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Post by Happy Feet on Jun 23, 2006 0:46:27 GMT -5
Heaven forbid that the workers should be held accountable for their actions. No way. Ilylo is still laboring under the idea that people can control other people without their consent. As has been pointed out numerous times, everyone should be held responsible for their acts. But if you allow someone else to control you it does not remove this responsibility. If a worker tells you to steal and you do, you are responsible for the theft. No one is saying that the workers are without blame as well but that is another issue. You keep chanting "Protect the system" when in reality what you are doing is advocating passing the blame and refusing to take responsibility for your own acts. You sound like Flip Wilson - "The Devil made me do it". There is such a thing as fear and mind control. If we were in control of every aspect of our will then there would be no alcoholics, drug addicts, religious addicts, battered women, etc. The first thing is that someone has to see they are being controlled. The second is that they have to find a way out. For many of us we were brought up in it and believed everything we were told. When we saw that it was not truth then we got out. But it takes time to come out.
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Post by Does it matter on Jun 23, 2006 0:57:12 GMT -5
makes it appear/sound as if believing in the Lord is some sort of a multi-level thing. Personally, I find the concept of "professing under" very distasteful.
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Post by stir on Jun 23, 2006 4:03:15 GMT -5
makes it appear/sound as if believing in the Lord is some sort of a multi-level thing. Personally, I find the concept of "professing under" very distasteful. That's right, if you profess under Worker A and then you go into the work and 20 people profess under you in your lifetime, in heaven Worker A gets 12 Full points for all his converts plus 4 Bonus Points for each of YOUR converts. You can see how it multiplies. If Worker A started way back in the late 1800s he's bound to have amassed a huge amount of Bonus Points by now and is probably sitting just to the right of Jesus up in heaven. ;D
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Post by numbers on Jun 23, 2006 4:29:47 GMT -5
a huge number not a huge amount
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Post by sjg on Jun 23, 2006 15:33:46 GMT -5
Nathan,
The problem is that people do NOT hear the "gospel" preached in meeting. The workers preach a "different gospel", a "different Jesus" and to those Paul says, "WOE...."
I've said it before, I will say it again....when someone stands to their feet or raises their hand when the meeting is "tested"...this is not being "born again"....they are not accepting Jesus into their heart as their personal Savior....they are "professing" allegiance to the way (not the Way) and the workers.
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seeking truth4INUBBX
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Post by seeking truth4INUBBX on Jun 24, 2006 12:02:53 GMT -5
The question "who did you profess under" shouldn't offend anyone. A lot of older "friends" ask simply in the interest of associating where you began and who you know. It's a way of learning more about you. "Why are you professing?" would be a more direct question and would yield a lot more information if the person was able to answer - and I don't know that many would be able to disassociate that with "who they professed under".
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Post by howdy on Jun 24, 2006 17:29:08 GMT -5
how about----- Who's meeting did you profess in? Might keep all the smart ass remarks out!!!
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 24, 2006 19:53:46 GMT -5
Sjg wrote: ....when someone stands to their feet or raises their hand when the meeting is "tested"...this is not being "born again"....they are not accepting Jesus into their heart as their personal Savior....they are "professing" allegiance to the way (not the Way) and the workers.
I beg to differ. There are some like you say. However, I am just one example of someone who truly gave their heart to God when I professed. I was 13, it was at Alabama convention, and I was most sincere and I made Jesus my Lord that night. I was "born again" at that time I wasn't professing allegiance to the workers and their way. In fact, I refused to thank God in my prayers for the way as many did. I resented the hardness of the 2x2 way. I separated the 2x2 way from my service to Jesus in my mind. I know many others (now exes) who believe the choice they made to serve Jesus while in meetings "took." That they became Christians while they were attending meetings. But now they don't feel the meeting holds the only Christians.
My mother and husband both felt the need to be re-baptised--I don't feel that need. I think it depends on what is in your heart at the time you make your choice; and maybe what words the workers used in their invitation.
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Jun 24, 2006 20:02:43 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and stop playing the blame game. Heaven forbid that the workers should be held accountable for their actions. No way. Can you answer the Question? Who did you profess under?
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Jun 24, 2006 20:18:49 GMT -5
I can not recall my exact experience, but I had generally heard the invitation: If anyone wants to walk in this way..." or "If you want to fellowship with like minded people of the gospel...". I don't recall any invitation to accept Jesus as a savior.
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juju
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Post by juju on Jun 24, 2006 20:28:32 GMT -5
To who ever wrote the below message.......have you ever read anything on mind control? If not, go read a book by Steve Hassen...then once you have an informed opinion and wish to share it, I for one may even listen to what you have to say....instead of boo-ing which is what i'm doing now! Ilylo is still laboring under the idea that people can control other people without their consent. As has been pointed out numerous times, everyone should be held responsible for their acts. But if you allow someone else to control you it does not remove this responsibility. If a worker tells you to steal and you do, you are responsible for the theft. No one is saying that the workers are without blame as well but that is another issue. You keep chanting "Protect the system" when in reality what you are doing is advocating passing the blame and refusing to take responsibility for your own acts. You sound like Flip Wilson - "The Devil made me do it".
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pamd
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Post by pamd on Jun 27, 2006 1:25:19 GMT -5
I have to agree with Ilylo, there is a heavy mind control going on in the "truth." Done with repetitious messages of those who lost out because they died before they could profess in the meetings. I heard the very same message at Mt Ranch Convention last year. I professed the first time at age 10, in gospel meetings be Clinton and Delmer Heldstab in Los Angeles. Then again at age 17, at Gilroy Convention after a rousing first sermon by Ed Alexander. Both times I felt a love for God and a desire to do what ever He asked of me.
Now I finally know what He wants from me. I love Him and am filled daily with His spirit. No fear, no guilt, no shame, Just A loving Father God within. I have been blessed to be baptised again. You are right, Cherie, it is a long hard journey breaking away from the control of the F&W
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