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Post by IllinoisGal on May 15, 2006 18:35:18 GMT -5
I believe Discipline needs to start when children are old enough to understand. I taught my kids to respect what my husband and I told them so we rarely had to spank.
I believe every child will try boundaries. I also believe it is neccesary for both parents to hand out discipline and not try to undermine what the other one says.
Anyone ever watch SuperNanny on Mondays on ABC? Thats one of my favorite shows. Now those are nightmare kids!!
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Post by Respect on May 15, 2006 20:03:50 GMT -5
I've seen children for whom spanking was very necessary and others for whom it seemed less important, if required at all. The inflection of pain is never necessary to teach anyone. It has been shown to be an ineffective teaching method in study after study and any number of alternate behavior modification methods are more effective and produce longer lasting results. It might have satisfied some of your needs to remain in control and demonstrate that you had the upper hand but as soon as you have to resort to punishment you no longer have the upper hand. Respect or fear? You do not teach anyone to respect you by beating them. Respect is earned.
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Post by happy on May 15, 2006 20:56:42 GMT -5
I'm with you Nitro. This thing, called communication, really works. If people want to spank, that is their business. My kids are well respected and yes...bullheaded like their parents. Bullheadedness, steered and molded works well in adulthood.
I used to be a spanker, but I find the other ways work so much better for all of us (in my clan).
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Post by nitro on May 15, 2006 21:18:17 GMT -5
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Post by happy on May 15, 2006 21:29:18 GMT -5
I'm keepin' an eye on you and cutting those prices! Ha.
I'm actually a smiley with a cowboy hat, but I go hatless here....just to rebel a little and have my head uncovered.
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Post by GetAClueNitro on May 15, 2006 23:53:17 GMT -5
Nitro: Clever, your scriptural quotations, but I'm not impressed. Maybe some day you'll see that using scripture as a battering ram to make your point is... well, pointless. Read long enough and you can make just about any point seem convincing with scripture.
Respect: If your parents beat you, I am sincerely sorry. I was fortunate enough to have parents that had a genuine love for their children. They never beat us; Instead, they administered punishment, sometimes spankings, as needed, with a genuine love, care, and respect for our future welfare. (And if you find what I am speaking of here bewildering, take it up with your parents.)
Again, it seems that those who choose not to spank see it as their right and duty to thrust their beliefs into others lives.
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Post by nitro on May 16, 2006 20:57:58 GMT -5
I choose not to spank my child because I am trying to follow the leadership of Christ. Psalm 23 says that we are guided with a rod an a staff- that we are COMFORTED with a rod and staff. The passage starts out by calling Christ the good shepherd. A shepherd does not strike his sheep with a rod. he places it along the sheeps side to guide it where he wants it to go. And he also uses it to pull a sheep out of a precarious situation.
I try to have the same attitude as that. That discipline is for guidance an comfort. Not for striking out to relieve my anger.
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bowhunter unplugged
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Post by bowhunter unplugged on May 16, 2006 22:46:06 GMT -5
Bowhunter we are all his children. As parents, we are required to show to our child the same grace in discipline that God has shown us. Since we no longer live under the Old Law, punishment is something we cannot embrace. That does not mean we do not discipline at all, but simply that we do not punish as part of that discipline. I disagree,but thats okay.I was raised with discipline(training) and punishment for bad behavior.I respected my elders and see no reason to raise my kids differently than the way I was disciplined(trained). I do not 'hit' as some claim spanking to be,and have rarely had to do more than raise my voice to get the message across.I have 2 daughters so I suspect if I had sons there would be more occasion for spanking,don't know. I don't remember needeing many visits with the spanking stick but one of my brothers seemed to require frequent reinforcements-he must not have been harmd as he turned out to be a kind parent,so I guess we were raised right? I see a balance of your method( and kindness) and my methods as a good way to raise children. As an aside,you mentioned discipline with grace and that punishment has no place.Think on this,I believe that even while living under His grace,we still have consequences for bad behaviour-even if it's percieved as punishment it's really discipline,as sin has it's own inherent consequences-God is not mocked;we reap what we sow!
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Post by GetAClueNitro on May 16, 2006 23:39:29 GMT -5
That discipline is for guidance an comfort. Not for striking out to relieve my anger. Striking a child in anger, frustration, impatience, or revenge is very different from spanking a child in love to teach obedience. I know of some that don't see the distinction here; I suspect their parents disciplined them in a less that loving manner. I can't imagine ever treating a child in any way other than to show them love and respect, and spanking CAN be done within these parameters.
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Post by Ahh yes on May 17, 2006 0:11:17 GMT -5
Striking a child in anger, frustration, impatience, or revenge is very different from spanking a child in love to teach obedience. Beating for love. Why do you think you have to hurt a child to teach them something? Why do you want the child to obey you? Because he fears that you will hurt him? Your suspicions are incorrect. I was raised by parents that did not hurt me when they wanted to teach me what was right and wrong. I respected them and was taught to live in a manner that would please them but, even more than that, they taught me that I should live my life in a way that I felt was right. That is, perhaps, why we are still very close even though I left the 2x2 church and they remain as firm believers. I wonder how many people consider being hurt as a sign of love? this sounds like a disorder. Can you imagine someone spanking you in a respectful way? If you can, you have a very different idea of what respect is than I do. Think about an adult you respect. Now imagine going up to them and showing your respect by spanking them because you do not like something they did. I can see why you do spank your children. You don't really respect them.
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 17, 2006 6:40:25 GMT -5
I see people dramatizing spanking as beating..Big Difference believe me
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Post by Words on May 17, 2006 10:09:12 GMT -5
I see people dramatizing spanking as beating..Big Difference believe me Hitting, beating, hurting, corporal punishment, physical punishment, etc. Take your pick. Not a way to treat children.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2006 10:17:46 GMT -5
I see people dramatizing spanking as beating..Big Difference believe me Hitting, beating, hurting, corporal punishment, physical punishment, etc. Take your pick. Not a way to treat children. No one that beats their kids, ever calls it 'beating'!!
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Post by mrleo on May 17, 2006 11:58:42 GMT -5
Granted, I was a near-perfect child and didn't receive nearly as much physical discipline as my incorrigible siblings but I can't recall any occasion of me or my siblings being spanked or slapped by my mom or dad when they weren't clearly angry. The ONLY instance where I can see spanking/beating as remotely justifiable is when the natural consequence of an action (e.g. running into the street = getting hit by a car = death) is such that the seriousness of it cannot be conveyed by reasoning/language to the child because of the child's age and understanding...and even then, I question it as being the only solution.
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Post by Someone on May 17, 2006 13:49:54 GMT -5
I was fortunate enough to have parents that had a genuine love for their children. They never beat us; Instead, they administered punishment, sometimes spankings, as needed, with a genuine love, care, and respect for our future welfare. (And if you find what I am speaking of here bewildering, take it up with your parents.) Semantics. Call it what you wish it still is hurting another in hope that they will fear being hurt again and modify their behavior. Not unlike those who speak out against abortion. Someone has to stand up for the children. And some of us are mandated to report to the state, on or off the job.
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Post by Excuses on May 17, 2006 14:58:23 GMT -5
Granted, I was a near-perfect child and didn't receive nearly as much physical discipline as my incorrigible siblings but I can't recall any occasion of me or my siblings being spanked or slapped by my mom or dad when they weren't clearly angry. Oh well, don't complain, you can use the excuse that your parents spanked you as reason for your bad behavior today or that you turned out the way you did because your parents spanked you and your siblings when they were angry and it damaged you!!
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Post by mrleo unplugged on May 17, 2006 15:46:54 GMT -5
I'm not complaining. I am supporting the notion that spanking is not done dispassionately. If you had looked at my answers to the survey, you would see that I wrote "unsure" in regard to question #3.
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Post by bowhunter on May 17, 2006 16:41:01 GMT -5
I was fortunate enough to have parents that had a genuine love for their children. They never beat us; Instead, they administered punishment, sometimes spankings, as needed, with a genuine love, care, and respect for our future welfare. (And if you find what I am speaking of here bewildering, take it up with your parents.) Semantics. Call it what you wish it still is hurting another in hope that they will fear being hurt again and modify their behavior. Not unlike those who speak out against abortion. Someone has to stand up for the children. And some of us are mandated to report to the state, on or off the job. In some states,including Iowa it is not agaist the law to spank your children. Those of you who are acting so pious about not spanking have an obvious problem with confusing discipline with abuse. I totally agree with Hawk and Geta Clue-this nation's families are under attack by the folks who somehow know better than the individuals how to raise the children.And we will all pay a price when these undisciplined children become adults and possibly leaders. We have all witnessed and were not pleased when the kids next to our table at a restaraunt or in line at Walmart are being little devils and the parents can't(for fear of the spanking nazis) or won't discipline the child(ren).No one can honestly say that it's cute how the kids are so open with their emotions and desires. That is hopefully the worst case scenario. Nitro you should be proud of well behaved kids,we all are and I'm glad you haven't had to get physical-that's unfortunately not the norm I say that if you don't see a need or benefit to spanking,then don't. But don't tell the rest of us how to raise our kids.
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Post by Reality on May 17, 2006 17:56:25 GMT -5
In some states,including Iowa it is not agaist the law to spank your children. Don't be so smug. In Iowa: Child endangerment includes using unreasonable force, torture, or cruelty which results in physical injury, is intended to cause serious injury, or causes substantial mental or emotional harm. Sec. 726.6.[Cr.] Physical injury could be a bruise caused by spanking or pulling too hard on a child's arm. Those of us who have had to pick up the pieces after parents have disciplined their children do not believe anyone has a right to hurt another person for the purpose of teaching them a lesson. No, I think not. Those of you who think that correcting a child's behavior by making them fear being hurt if they do something wrong are confusing pain with love. Because you are stronger, the child is helpless against you. Why do you feel the need to hurt a child to teach them? I would guess you cannot imagine a way to teach and discipline a child without hurting them and exerting your dominance over them. After watching some people interact with their children I can say with certainty that there are people who know better how to raise children. Bad manners are not corrected with punishment. A good example and a kind voice will win out every time over pain and punishment. Oh yes. As fast as you can get rid of the openness and expression of emotions. Hide those emotions and never, on pain of being spanked, ever express your emotions. Besides, it takes too much time to teach children how to keep these qualities and still interact in a sociably acceptable way. Best to just spank them and have them repress their feelings. It is not the norm because it is quicker to spank than to inform and teach. There is rarely, if ever, a situation that could not be better dealt with with love, explanation, and understanding than with physical force. Managing behavior with fear of punishment has never been a good solution. Do you have the same feelings about abortion? If you feel the need, go ahead and kill the unborn?
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 17, 2006 18:18:04 GMT -5
[quote .[/quote]
Do you have the same feelings about abortion? If you feel the need, go ahead and kill the unborn?[/quote]
I hardly think spanking a child can be compared to abortion.
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Post by go figure on May 17, 2006 19:46:03 GMT -5
I hardly think spanking a child can be compared to abortion. Good point, Illinoisgal. In fact, many activists in this country (U.S.) don't thing spanking and abortion are comparable; they imply by their agenda that SPANKING is WORSE! Many of the "well-intentioned" people who would love to codify spanking as child abuse are the same folks you see picketing the White House and the Supreme Court for the continued "right" to kill their unborn babies! Maybe they should come out with a new bumper sticker: STOP CHILD ABUSE -- KILL YOUR KIDS!
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Post by To some extent on May 17, 2006 20:35:03 GMT -5
Do you have the same feelings about abortion? If you feel the need, go ahead and kill the unborn?[/quote] I hardly think spanking a child can be compared to abortion.[/quote] Perhaps it was a comparison using the extreme to show that just because a parent wants to hit their children that perhaps someone needs to temper that feeling just as one might temper the feeling a mother might have to abort her child. Parents do not own their children to do as they wish to and with them.
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Post by Loving mom on May 17, 2006 22:38:01 GMT -5
I am a single parent. He is two.
Beating is wrong so I won't do it.
When I tell him to sit in a chair, he won't do it.
Tieing him to the chair is wrong so I won't do it.
Personally restraining him is not possible because he will bite, hit, kick, and scratch.
Talking to him doesn't work, because as soon as he figures out its a lesson, he takes off.
Grounding him doesn't work, because he always has something else to do.
Bribing him doesn't work, because he seems to know I'm attempting to obtain his obedience.
Finally he, in another act of defiance, climbs over the child gate and falls down a flight of hardwood stairs: A broken arm, A broken ankle, 44 stitches on his head and arm, and a newfound morbid fear of stairs.
And now he has decided to start sticking thin objects in the electrical outlets, after prying off the plastic child-proof protector caps.
I love him with every fiber of my being. Wasn't that enough? Where did I go wrong? I fear for his safety.
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Post by Loving mom on May 17, 2006 22:41:18 GMT -5
Uh... did I do that? (referring to the weird way my post appears)
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Post by Here is an idea on May 18, 2006 0:19:27 GMT -5
Raising a child is a tough job. There is no training. Doing it as a single parent is an almost impossible task. The demands of life make extra time a rare thing. Seek some professional help. There are things thqat you can do that will make your life with your child easier. As you noted, spanking won't help. Electroshock might be able to inflect enough pain to modify the behavior but that is out of the question. Get some help - it will do you both a lot of good.
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Post by IllinoisGal on May 18, 2006 6:08:02 GMT -5
Thats why I had deleted my post . I thought I had done something wrong to make my post look strange and appear on the right side of the page only. It seems to be affecting this thread only
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Post by happy on May 18, 2006 7:30:35 GMT -5
Ask your pediatrician for advice. Sometimes, there are reasons aside from parenting that cause a child to act out. It could be a disability of some kind or even a food allergy. Help might be just a visit away.
Bless you, Mom! Hang in there! Hugs, Happy
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Post by mrleo on May 18, 2006 11:27:08 GMT -5
I've been thinking about my experiences working with children with developmental disabilities. Physical disclipline was not an option for a variety of reasons, legality among them.
As others have mentioned in regard to non-spanking techniques, creativity and redirection was key. They had to be protected from themselves and each other and the public. Now, if it doesn't make sense to hit a person with a two-year old mentality in order to teach them to behave properly, why does it make sense to hit a "normal" two year old?
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