|
|
Post by l on Apr 29, 2006 11:49:58 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by I wonder on Apr 29, 2006 19:37:59 GMT -5
I wonder if today's workers (especially overseers) know anything about John Long?
|
|
|
|
Post by ocd on Apr 29, 2006 19:48:19 GMT -5
I wonder how Lloyd can be online when he said he had sold his computer
|
|
|
|
Post by l on Apr 29, 2006 20:21:31 GMT -5
I wonder how Lloyd can be online when he said he had sold his computer I got my doubts that any know at all? I did buy a new computer got a good deal on my old one so I bought another on...I'll give you a tip it's got 160GB HD wanna here more! |
|
|
|
Post by gimme a break on Apr 30, 2006 1:41:18 GMT -5
Gimme a break...Lloyd uses the computers at his local library....right?
|
|
|
|
Post by gimme a break on Apr 30, 2006 1:43:50 GMT -5
Gimme a break...Lloyd uses the computers at his local library....right?
|
|
|
|
Post by l on Apr 30, 2006 8:59:29 GMT -5
Below is a copy and paste of what John Long said at the earliest of time John Long was William Irvine first companion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lord says, “In measure when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind,” Isa. 27:8. The definite article [“the”] used in such a narrow way as The truth, The way, The Testimony, Etc. unto the exclusion of all other sects and missions outside their own became at that time very common. They “unChristianized” all Christians outside themselves; and refused fellowship with them, and I could not go that length conscientiously; and indeed the instructions of Christ, given in Matthew Ten to His Apostles appears to be so contrary to that belief and spirit that it must have been blindness on the part of Irvine and Cooney not to have seen it; but he knew well enough they had got into a trap, as was manifest from one address at the convention in which he said it was good to err on the opposite side of the world. Measuring regeneration by the life of Christ and not by the Atonement; by the external conformity and not by an internal experience was one of the causes of the error
|
|
|
|
Post by Reforming on Apr 30, 2006 10:23:41 GMT -5
Below is a copy and paste of what John Long said at the earliest of time John Long was William Irvine first companion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Lord says, “In measure when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind,” Isa. 27:8. The definite article [“the”] used in such a narrow way as The truth, The way, The Testimony, Etc. unto the exclusion of all other sects and missions outside their own became at that time very common. They “unChristianized” all Christians outside themselves; and refused fellowship with them, and I could not go that length conscientiously; and indeed the instructions of Christ, given in Matthew Ten to His Apostles appears to be so contrary to that belief and spirit that it must have been blindness on the part of Irvine and Cooney not to have seen it; but he knew well enough they had got into a trap, as was manifest from one address at the convention in which he said it was good to err on the opposite side of the world. Measuring regeneration by the life of Christ and not by the Atonement; by the external conformity and not by an internal experience was one of the causes of the error What is your opinion.. Do you think the other groups would have joined up in the beginning if they were accepted??/ Maybe the other churches were upset when they found out they were lost |
|
|
|
Post by l on Apr 30, 2006 11:21:49 GMT -5
Well all you need do is read what John Long said again
and yes I have to wonder about those who joined 2x2s from other denominations how much they understood they like everyone else were learning and trusted those in authority to led
properly
|
|
|
|
Post by evidence on Apr 30, 2006 15:19:06 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that John Long even existed?
Lloyd, did you meet him?
|
|
|
|
Post by to evidence on Apr 30, 2006 15:26:00 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that John Long even existed? Lloyd, did you meet him? Have you met Lloyd? |
|
|
|
Post by evidence on Apr 30, 2006 15:43:58 GMT -5
Yes I have. Why do you ask?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cherie on Apr 30, 2006 16:16:18 GMT -5
Yes, there is evidence that John Long existed.
John Long was on the 1905 Workers List.
The Impartial Reporter newspaper records his excommunication from the Crocknacrieve platform by Wm Irvine.
I met his son and wife in 2004 in Ireland, who let me use his journal. He showed me family photos.
|
|
|
|
Post by to evidence on Apr 30, 2006 17:03:39 GMT -5
Yes I have. Why do you ask? You address Lloyd politely, which is rare here. I wondered if there is a connection. Thank you for your honesty and your etiquette. |
|
|
|
Post by l on Apr 30, 2006 17:50:53 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that John Long even existed? Lloyd, did you meet him? Records show he existed maybe I should ask a two by two ? Do you think I would get a straight answer |
|
|
|
Post by evidence on May 1, 2006 3:19:42 GMT -5
The problem with presenting evidence on this site is the anonymity.
"Cherie" posted that she (I assume the name is true to gender) has evidence, having seen documents, met people etc.
But that evidence cannot be presented here because there is so much thats false here, any real truth is suspect.
If a scanned document were presented, its not evidence, as it could so easily be a fake. As can any reference to having met someone, seen someone etc.
This is not to call Cherie a liar (or anyone else), but to say that no truth can be presented here, and that EVERYTHING written, posted here is suspect of being false.
|
|
|
|
Post by guest11 on May 1, 2006 5:38:11 GMT -5
The problem with presenting evidence on this site is the anonymity. "Cherie" posted that she (I assume the name is true to gender) has evidence, having seen documents, met people etc. But that evidence cannot be presented here because there is so much thats false here, any real truth is suspect. If a scanned document were presented, its not evidence, as it could so easily be a fake. As can any reference to having met someone, seen someone etc. This is not to call Cherie a liar (or anyone else), but to say that no truth can be presented here, and that EVERYTHING written, posted here is suspect of being false. No onw will take this post very serious |
|
|
|
Post by agree on May 1, 2006 7:54:59 GMT -5
Yes, no-0one will take this (or any) post seriously as they are all suspect
|
|
|
|
Post by 1guest on May 1, 2006 8:00:59 GMT -5
Has long has we do not contribute crap to this board
|
|
|
|
Post by Whosetruth on May 1, 2006 9:35:35 GMT -5
The problem with presenting evidence on this site is the anonymity. "Cherie" posted that she (I assume the name is true to gender) has evidence, having seen documents, met people etc. But that evidence cannot be presented here because there is so much thats false here, any real truth is suspect. If a scanned document were presented, its not evidence, as it could so easily be a fake. As can any reference to having met someone, seen someone etc. This is not to call Cherie a liar (or anyone else), but to say that no truth can be presented here, and that EVERYTHING written, posted here is suspect of being false.[/ I agree, unless we were there , we don't know . There is much history that was never recorded, how do we account for that?? We can only answer for our own truth/understanding thereof. |
|
jungo
Junior Member
Posts: 141
|
Post by jungo on May 1, 2006 9:58:08 GMT -5
I feel sad about these post that believe so much about there faith that they would resort to this type of understanding. Cherie has done an honest work in investigating the origins of a faith in which she belonged and once embraced. She investigated a faith calling themselves the true children of God and blatently lied about this being handed down from generation to generation. God can not be a partaker of a Gospel that lies in wait to decieve. Yoe say you were not there nor can there be any proof and that these documents can be forged. Go look it up yourselves. Take the time yourselvves and pay for the costs of finding out the truth behind your religion. Even if there was remotely a chance that you believe what you believe is right your level of honesty and reasoning defy imagination. I appreciate a lot of the letters that have recently been posted about what Irvine and Harder wrote. If you people are the truth I can't help not believe in an honest God and that there is no darkness in him. You give your God the name of blasphemy, thats a sad situation I see your selves in. Do you people sleep at night?
|
|
|
|
Post by nathan7 on May 1, 2006 11:08:25 GMT -5
The problem with presenting evidence on this site is the anonymity. "Cherie" posted that she (I assume the name is true to gender) has evidence, having seen documents, met people etc. But that evidence cannot be presented here because there is so much thats false here, any real truth is suspect. If a scanned document were presented, its not evidence, as it could so easily be a fake. As can any reference to having met someone, seen someone etc. This is not to call Cherie a liar (or anyone else), but to say that no truth can be presented here, and that EVERYTHING written, posted here is suspect of being false.[/ I agree, unless we were there , we don't know . There is much history that was never recorded, how do we account for that?? We can only answer for our own truth/understanding thereof. Interesting observation....  Did John Long write his journal after he left the 2x2 ministry? Didn't he become a preacher for a certain denomination after he left the 2x2 fellowship? Which denomation was it? |
|
|
|
Post by nathan7 on May 1, 2006 11:10:48 GMT -5
I feel sad about these post that believe so much about there faith that they would resort to this type of understanding. Cherie has done an honest work in investigating the origins of a faith in which she belonged and once embraced. She investigated a faith calling themselves the true children of God and blatently lied about this being handed down from generation to generation. God can not be a partaker of a Gospel that lies in wait to decieve. Yoe say you were not there nor can there be any proof and that these documents can be forged. Go look it up yourselves. Take the time yourselvves and pay for the costs of finding out the truth behind your religion. Even if there was remotely a chance that you believe what you believe is right your level of honesty and reasoning defy imagination. I appreciate a lot of the letters that have recently been posted about what Irvine and Harder wrote. If you people are the truth I can't help not believe in an honest God and that there is no darkness in him. You give your God the name of blasphemy, thats a sad situation I see your selves in. Do you people sleep at night? There are many historical and documents available today which show us there has been 2x2 apostles Itinerant ministry since the time of Jesus through down the ages. |
|
|
|
Post by Cherie Kropp on May 1, 2006 11:18:11 GMT -5
Yes, "Cherie" is a female. By way of introduction, I am Cherie (Berry) Kropp, and I live in Oklahoma, USA I was raised on the Jackson, MS convention grounds. Additional particulars about me are in my story, link given below. As a little history, when I read the Secret Sect in 1989, that was the first I had ever heard of, much less thought about there being a man who was a fairly recent founder of the F&W fellowship. I felt much the same as "Evidence" has expressed. SHOW ME THE PROOF. Why should I believe what this man (Parker) has written. Salvation is too serious a matter to trifle with. My life story (found on TTT) at home.earthlink.net/%7Etruth444/BRG11-4Cherie.html tells about this. I immediately wanted proof for myself. I set out to prove or disprove for myself Doug Parker's statements in his SS book. My website (Telling The Truth) and book (The Life and Ministry of Wm Irvine) are products of my research. In 2004, I personally visited the historical sites I wrote about in my book located in Ireland, Scotland and England. I was once where you are, "Evidence." And, you are right. Even the proofs are suspect. I have tried hard to present authentic documentation on TTT. I believe I have a good deal of credibility "out there" in this area; and many many people have relied on my credible research, rather than research for themselves. But you have no way to know whether or not my research is credible at this time, and my words are just mere words. I understand completely and respect that in you. I do have a hard copy of every document printed on TTT and in the Basic Researcher's Guide. Yes, they could be altered—but are they? As information, there is ONLY one letter (purportedly written by Ed Cooney to Wm Irvine) that the authorship is doubtful, and I believe that I have made that clear where it is printed on TTT. The TTT Mission statement is at: home.earthlink.net/%7Etruth/sec1-1AboutTTT.html This is written there: What are TTT's standards regarding documentation and evidence? A great deal of effort has been made by the TTT Editor to hold a high standard of accuracy in reporting details about the 2x2 church and ministry. Telling The Truth has made it a practice to have on file a hard copy of each of the documents, newspaper articles, references, etc. listed in the Basic Researchers Guide, on the Telling the Truth website and in the Book, The Life and Ministry of Wm Irvine by Cherie Kropp. Material included in these mediums relates to subject matter that (1) is published or circulated and which (2) relates to The Church Without a Name, its history, founder and/or congregation. On rare occasions, a few comments without sources have been used, and they are prefaced by the words "allegedly" or "reportedly," indicating the editor has not substantiated same, but thought them worthy of inclusion. The TTT Editor has made due diligence to corroborate evidence when possible, but makes no representations concerning the accuracy of the information presented in the references listed. On occasion when there has been information that conflicts, both versions are given. "Evidence," I hope you will review my work with an open mind. . If you find areas that could be improved or added to—I'm open Feel free to ask anything concerning my sources, etc. I am protective of my sources who have asked me to be, but am more than willing to divulge others. Also, please know and be understanding that the TTT site is under renovation, as the current software has been revised, and has filled up the site with HTML garbage; and broken numerous links, which will be fixed soon--I hope. |
|
|
|
Post by Cherie to NB on May 1, 2006 11:20:33 GMT -5
RE: Didn't he become a preacher for a certain denomination after he left the 2x2 fellowship? Which denomation was it?
**No. You're probably thinking about his son.
JL kept a journal all the while he was one of Wm Irvines workers and afterwards. He recopied his journal into book form after he was kicked out of the work.
|
|
|
|
Post by nathan7 on May 1, 2006 11:40:29 GMT -5
RE: Didn't he become a preacher for a certain denomination after he left the 2x2 fellowship? Which denomation was it? **No. You're probably thinking about his son. JL kept a journal all the while he was one of Wm Irvines workers and afterwards. He recopied his journal into book form after he was kicked out of the work. Thanks, Cherie. Whatever happened to John Long after he left the 2x2 Ministry? did he join another church do you know? Do you know or have any information how or where did John Govan, Faith Mission founder (1886) get his idea for sending out his workers/preachers 2x2 Itinerant ministry from? Did John Govan come up with 2x2 Itinerant, sister workers ministry by himself? or did he copy it from another group or denomination exist before him? |
|
|
|
Post by Cherie on May 1, 2006 11:42:43 GMT -5
No, he didn't join another church. He continued to be an itinerant minister on faith lines all his life. He also married and had children. I can't believe you don't know this already.
|
|
|
|
Post by nathan7 on May 1, 2006 11:54:01 GMT -5
No, he didn't join another church. He continued to be an itinerant minister on faith lines all his life. He also married and had children. I can't believe you don't know this already. There are a lot of things I don't know about John Long. It seems you are only of few people who know about him today. Did John Long continue on his own ministry after he left the 2x2? Did John Long have anyone join him as his companions to carry on as a minister on faith lines after he Left the 2x2's church? Did John Long start his own church or ministry? Did John Long worked with other church denominations after he left the 2x2's ministry. Thanks, for sharing these information with us. |
|
