Time to open your bible
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Post by Time to open your bible on Apr 18, 2006 23:36:16 GMT -5
In response to Selah, "fairytales" wrote:
Which means you mustn't read the scriptures much or carefully. The ignorance of those who just want to cling on to their cherished little dogmatisms is astounding.
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Post by selah on Apr 18, 2006 23:55:47 GMT -5
Yes, but to investigate means to get rid of our prejudices. and that is very hard for most people. Do you ''fight'' with those that do not believe what you do??
I think we all [hindu, islam, etc, morman] think that having an outward show of support of others, when we do not know what they believe.....many times I have found that denominations are like 'clubs' and most do not even know what they stand for . So that opens the door for confusion.
Hey, you seem to eat up this outward show.[of support]
I just can not find this type of support to be edifying to inward convictions. No, I do not "fight" with those that do not believe as I do. Sometimes I have great conversations and discussions...like on this board, but we don't "fight". Reasoning together is a good thing, and sometimes you just agree to disagree. Do natural brothers and sisters agree on everything? Are they still brothers and sisters? In the N.T. there was quite a serious division among believers in Christ. There was the Jerusalem church (Jews) and the Antioch church (Gentiles). The Jewish believers expected the Gentile believers to carry on many of the traditions of Judaism, since this would prove they had truly accepted the God of the Jews. It was determined that the Gentiles did not need to do that. Today Messianic Jews still do keep the Feasts of the LORD, yet we Gentile Christians do not. Yet, we both are worshipping Jesus (Yeshuah) and growing in Him. We are ONE BODY ... ONE NEW MAN in Christ. I see this as an indicator that there are non-essential differences between believers, but if we agree on what is essential - namely Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord - we are definitely united with Him. NO, it is not an "outward show". We are not pretending to agree with each other on all the non-essentials. We are readily stating that we do not, and that it's okay. I accept other believers on the basis of the indwelling Spirit of God...NOT...on whether or not we agree on everything. It's perfectly alright with me if we don't agree. They didn't in the Bible either. About convictions? It's amazing how validating it is to know that your brother from another denomination trusts Jesus' work in you as much as he does in himself. We can respect each other's convictions, knowing that "God doeth all things well". He knows what He is doing in the lives of His people a LOT better than we do. The unity we enjoy is in the Spirit...not in the letter. Blessings, Linda |
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Post by selah on Apr 19, 2006 0:12:42 GMT -5
But Selah and others, I think you're right on track -- it's not a matter of belonging to a group -- an exclusive body of people defined by the building in which they worship, whether it's the elder's home down the block or the Baptist church on the corner next to the Quiki-Mart. What 'it' is, is recognizing a common spirit; a common care for one's fellow man; a common belief in the good that comes only from God and his work in the hearts of men & women . These are nice thots, but I have yet to find these thots expounded in the scriptures. Hey, I like the fairytales I read, especially ''Cinderella''....that doesn't mean they are true. I would have said that once too...that these ideas were fairytales. But that was before I began to seriously study the scriptures for myself...something we ought to do. Now, I could not say anything like that, because the bible is so full of evidence to the contrary. I'm not making it up. Check it out. What reason would we have to make up a fairytale and say it's supported by the bible? Blessings, Linda |
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Post by happy on Apr 19, 2006 7:47:42 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing, everyone. I have also felt that so many have left and found nothing. I've thought that for a couple of years, as I've watched the boards. I think I was wanting a miracle answer of a denomination that is "best". The church hopping/testing is so overwhelming, even in thought, much less reality.
hugs!
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Post by selah on Apr 19, 2006 9:11:21 GMT -5
In leaving the fellowship of the f&w, I was not looking for "another" church. I knew God would place me wherever He wanted me to be. A place where I could grow, where I could edify others and glorify Him. So, it's true. I did not leave the f&w fellowship for any other fellowship in particular. (That must be what people are saying means "nothing".) I left the f&w because my relationship with Jesus Christ had changed, and the change was unacceptable to the f&w. It came down to making a choice...would I choose Jesus Christ in me or the fellowship? So, in a very real way I left for "SOMEONE", and His name is Jesus. I wouldn't call Him "nothing". I knew that He would provide EVERYTHING I need, and He has...in abundance! I wondered where I would go for worship and fellowship, but I KNEW I could trust the guiding of the Holy Spirit, that now bore witness with my spirit that I was a child of God. Remember the story of Abraham? God told him to leave his country and go to a place that God would show him. Abraham trusted God. He didn't have it all laid out for him ahead of time, so that he could decide if it was "right" or not. That means trusting God to place you where He wants you. It is not an intellectual choice based on whether or not it "seems" right to you. I found that I had genuine believing brothers and sisters in MANY groups (What a delightful surprise, after believing the f&w were the only ones.) People who are absolutely devoted to the Lord in every area of their lives. Then, through prayer and trusting God, I was led to a local church family, that became my worship and fellowship home for the past 26 years. I have recently made a move to another local church at the Lord's leading and with the blessing of my former church. (Not because they're glad to be rid of me, but because they are united with me in seeing what God is doing.  ) So anyway, am I saying that everyone must leave the f&w? Obviously not. I trust God's work in every believer no matter where he is. But, I want to make it very clear that I did NOT leave the f&w for "nothing". I left for "SOMEONE."Blessings, Linda |
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Post by HMMMM on Apr 19, 2006 9:25:17 GMT -5
The bottom line is , what ever I think is more true/valid than what you think.
Everyone is still right in their own eyes.
I can still look at ''what you have found'' and believe you are ''believing fairytales'' , even though you do not see yourself as such. Obviously, because you do not understand my thoughts, it is impossible to have agreement.
You are right, there was disagreements in past, this was needful, so that they could find out/search for the answer/s. But if we just accept huge misunderstandings, how will we ever reach ''harmony''. Just a few thoughts......
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Post by Bridge on Apr 19, 2006 9:27:12 GMT -5
Currently, I do community service in which I have fellowship with Chrisitians from over 35 churches. Since leaving the "2x2" church in 2002 we have attended, Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran and Episcopal Churches. Currently we are going to a Episcopal Church and have found comfort there. Although we are comfortable with the literagy and probably a Baptist church, Methodist or Presbyterian is an easier switch.
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Post by hmmmm on Apr 19, 2006 9:47:23 GMT -5
Currently we are going to a Episcopal Church and have found comfort there. Although we are comfortable with the literagy and probably a Baptist church, Methodist or Presbyterian is an easier switch. Good thing you feel comfortable, do the others that attend also feel comfortable??? I always thought those people were uncomfortable. I love being comfortable!!!!! |
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Post by selah on Apr 19, 2006 11:28:13 GMT -5
I agree, and I think this still applies today. We still need to keep searching for clarity in what we should believe all our lives. That's why I enjoy communicating with others so much. I learn from them; they learn from me. I go to the Word of God. I dig for His precious treasures.
Sometimes I find out I was in error, and I'm so glad to find out. Sometimes I find confirmation for what I do believe.
If we never come together to share our differences in love, how will we ever find harmony? Avoiding one another or judging one another does not produce harmony. Forming an exclusive group only produces harmony within that group.
We simply MUST hear each other and work through things, rather than just finding a little clique that sees it the same way we do.
The bible is the final authority on doctrinal beliefs. As believers, we often draw different conclusions based on our personal perceptions OR we can just believe someone else's perception and say it's right because it sounds right and we don't have to investigate for ourselves.
For me personally, it's not about being right or wrong. It's about loving and growing in Him....edifying people and glorifying God.
Yes, I have certain perceptions about God and the bible, but the goal is to keep getting closer to what HE wants me to understand.
This is achieved by examining things...sharing with others...learning from them...and ultimately taking all of it before the Lord for His guidance in prayer and study.
The best way to find out about "fairytales", is by searching the Word ourselves and asking God to reveal truth about our perceptions. This is what we are encouraged to do in the scripture.
Just having a belief about something is not enough. We need to keep on digging. Many of my beliefs have changed through the years, as I continue to uncover scriptural evidence that convinces me of my error.
The question is: Are we willing to keep on digging, or do we have it all figured out?
Blessings,
Linda
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Post by nLg on Apr 19, 2006 12:00:26 GMT -5
I believe God allows different churches with different worship styles in order for all people to worship him in a way that is personally meaningful.
I grew up in a professing family, professed at 13, was baptized at 16, and gradually became aware that the doctrines in the Bible were not the same as the doctrines preached by the workers. As a result, I began to pray that God would lead me into a church where the Bible was taught and practiced. I visited the Church of Christ, Assemblies of God, and a Baptist church while I was in college. I felt most comfortable in the Baptist church, but didn't have anything against the others. I met and married a wonderful guy who was raised in AG and charismatic churches, and the two of us currently are part of Vineyard Fellowship. Attending small groups and Sunday morning worship with the Vineyard (which is just getting started, and doesn't have a church building), allowed me to see what meeting in the home should have been like: a joyful worship and praise of God, joining with fellow believers, sharing and praying openly for one another's needs. It has truly been a growth experience for me, especially as I currently live in a city where God is despised and Christians are considered fools. I have never felt more peace in my relationship with Jesus Christ than I do right now, and as some people have pointed out, it's the relationship with Jesus that brings peace, not a particular church. I have gone to meeting with my family and taken part, and I feel that God has shown me just how big his family is. Jesus saves, whether you go to meeting or worship with another church.
I remember going to meeting once and hearing a young man give his testimony about going to a church, and stating that it really bothered him because God wasn't there. I believe that if you ask Christ into your heart, He will be with you wherever you go, and if you go into a church assembly where His Word isn't preached, he'll be there with you leading you out of that.
God bless whoever reads this post, and if you are struggling with whether or not to leave the truth, give it to Him. If you pray and trust in Christ, He will lead you to a place where you can have peace, whether or not you are in meeting. He's led me on my journey to forgiveness and peace, and he'll lead you too.
nLg
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Post by selah on Apr 19, 2006 21:24:55 GMT -5
AMEN! Thanks for your great post. I enjoyed your thoughts immensely! Blessings, Linda |
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