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Post by mrleo unplugged on Apr 9, 2006 12:39:44 GMT -5
Revelation 22:18, 19 : “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Apr 9, 2006 12:44:44 GMT -5
Thank you  |
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Post by ghost on Apr 9, 2006 13:40:39 GMT -5
Do you recall that verse in the bible that says that we should not add or take away anything from the bible as it is? (I cannot remember the exact verse) What a convenient verse eh! Muslims also say that their Quoran is the only Godly word and one cannot add or substract anything from it because it is the perfect word that God dictated toe Muhamad. They also go a step further and say that if you are a Muslim and get converted to another religion you must be put to death. However, it is evident that if the Gospel according to Judas is taken into account, the phrase of Jesus in «John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.» takes another meaning altogether and Judas is not the betrayor of Christ but his most faithful disciple. And this of course brings us to the conclusion that the whole thing had nothing to do with God, but was just a human construct - in the same way a major corporation will sacrifice a CEO or a Vice President to save the company from oblivion and ensure (by so doing) increased profits ... |
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Post by botany on Apr 10, 2006 10:29:51 GMT -5
Will Christian Churches in general accept the Gospel of Judas?[/size] NO WAY IN HELL! Why look at all sides of the story when you can present only the side that helps your case?[/size] The Church doesn't need balance. Are you nuts for questioning? Sheesh.[/b] andy 
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Post by Gnostics on Apr 10, 2006 13:41:47 GMT -5
Here is an interesting link. www.earlychristianwritings.com/Note how many writings there are besides those accepted today as "Canon". The Gospel of Judas falls into the ame catigory as all the other "spurious" writings. And if it were true why would God wait 2000 years before revealing it?? |
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Post by ghost on Apr 10, 2006 15:52:56 GMT -5
I thought that the 2x2s - also known as «The Truth» - would give the recently published text of this Gospel a closer look and maybe change some of their views, in the same way that the Catholic church plans to re-instate Judas and not consider him anymore as a traitor. What would some of the most prominent workers and ex-workers of this board think? Dennis, Edgar  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2006 16:43:20 GMT -5
Will Christian Churches in general accept the Gospel of Judas? [/size] NO WAY IN HELL! Why look at all sides of the story when you can present only the side that helps your case?[/size] The Church doesn't need balance. Are you nuts for questioning? Sheesh.[/b] andy [/quote] You are right the church DOES NOT NEED balance. It needs truth, and truth isn't formed by consensus. Karl |
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Post by spanky on Apr 10, 2006 17:07:41 GMT -5
Nor is it formed by the CHURCH!
Spankster
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towit
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Post by towit on Apr 10, 2006 17:18:46 GMT -5
This book of Judas (so-called Gospel of Judas) WAS known before the New Testament was assembled into the books that we know of today. It was "lost" AFTER it had been considered for the New Testament- along with many other books- Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Peter, the Acts of St John, and others. Protestants call these books Pseudepigrapha which means FALSE WRITINGS. I submit for your consideration the following: It had last been heard of in AD180, when Saint Irenaeus, a bishop, condemned it as heretical .The text was the work of an ancient Gnostic sect called the Cainites, which made a habit of giving a positive value to all the negative figures in Christian scriptures .ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-04-03_1039276.htmlThe Gospel of Judas was unimportant to most Christians when it was written hundreds of years ago and it is unimportant today, said a Jesuit scholar, who has convoked a series of ecumenical studies of the historical Jesus.
Jesuit Father Gerald O'Collins, a longtime professor of Christology at Rome's Pontifical Gregorian University, said the text, like the gospels of Mary Magdalene and Philip, "does not merit the name 'gospel.'"
The texts come from the gnostic tradition, a religious-philosophical current popular in the second, third and fourth centuries. The gnostics claimed to have secret knowledge unavailable to the vast majority of people and focused so strongly on the spiritual and intellectual that they despised material creation, including the human body.
In the year 180, St. Irenaeus condemned the gnostics, mentioning particularly a Gospel of Judas.
Father O'Collins said the most important thing about the text released in early April is that "it shows just how right Irenaeus was in saying the gnostics were against mainstream Christianity and Judaism, they were against our God."
"To give Judas greater credit," the Jesuit said, the gnostics "portray Jesus giving him secret knowledge.”
“It was a nice try," he said, adding that there is no evidence to support the claim.
"It was junk then and it is junk now," he said.
Father O'Collins, who between 1996 and 2003 convoked a series of ecumenical, interdisciplinary summits for scholars on the historical Jesus, said it was "ridiculous" for anyone to claim publication of the Gospel of Judas will challenge mainstream Christianity.The above was an excerpt from a very nice article at www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19372The point of the above articles is this: The so-called Gospel of Judas was known and considered before the New Testament was assembled. It was deemed not inspired by God. In fact, it is considered of Gnostic origin. Gnoticism is deemed heretical. |
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towit
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Post by towit on Apr 10, 2006 17:23:45 GMT -5
I thought that the 2x2s - also known as «The Truth» - would give the recently published text of this Gospel a closer look and maybe change some of their views, in the same way that the Catholic church plans to re-instate Judas and not consider him anymore as a traitor. What would some of the most prominent workers and ex-workers of this board think? Dennis, Edgar Actually, the Catholic Church was the group that assembled the New Testament as we know today. The Catholic Church's early scholars in 180 A.D. REJECTED the so-called Gospel of Judas as being NOT INSPIRED (along with many other books). I HIGHLY doubt that are going to change their minds (and nor should they). In fact, I saw the following in a news article: Vatican officials have denied that the publication this week is part of a rehabilitation of Judas by the Catholic Church. ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-04-03_1039276.html |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2006 17:29:58 GMT -5
Nor is it formed by the CHURCH! Spankster Never said it did, or should. Karl |
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Post by Sylvestranotloggedin on Apr 10, 2006 20:21:29 GMT -5
Do you recall that verse in the bible that says that we should not add or take away anything from the bible as it is? (I cannot remember the exact verse) This verse is referring to the book of "Revelation", not the book that is the Bible. The "Bible" did not exist when this verse was written. E |
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Post by jxr on Apr 11, 2006 8:17:05 GMT -5
Do you recall that verse in the bible that says that we should not add or take away anything from the bible as it is? (I cannot remember the exact verse) This verse is referring to the book of "Revelation", not the book that is the Bible. The "Bible" did not exist when this verse was written. Hear hear! That must be one of the most mis-used verses by the funnymentalists. Most people don't realise the original etymology of bible either. So the term Bible here effectively means library. To quote a common 2x2ism " We take no book but the Bible". Then they go and preach from, say, the book of Psalms.  |
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Post by botany on Apr 11, 2006 10:43:58 GMT -5
You are right the church DOES NOT NEED balance. It needs truth, and truth isn't formed by consensus. Karl Hi Karl/lacpastor, I agree to a point that the church may not need to put up a vote to determine it's doctrine. However, when only one side of a story is accepted and subsequently presented, it begs to question the validity of the stance presented. That is my point, that I seriously doubt that the Church (in general) will ever give the Gospel of Judas even a look see. Sure, some people will, but over all most will not even consider it. I don't mind if people review different sides and then still side with the view they already agreed with... to me that is still retaining some kind of balance in openmindedness. Have a grateful day, andy |
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Post by bull on Apr 11, 2006 10:48:16 GMT -5
"the Catholic church plans to re-instate Judas and not consider him anymore as a traitor"
What kinda bull is that? They figure they have the authority to "reinstate" someone??? Arrogance!!! Oh well, it's better than the 2x2s, they'll probably just reason it all away like they always do...
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towit
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Post by towit on Apr 11, 2006 10:52:51 GMT -5
"the Catholic church plans to re-instate Judas and not consider him anymore as a traitor"What kinda bull is that? They figure they have the authority to "reinstate" someone??? Arrogance!!! Oh well, it's better than the 2x2s, they'll probably just reason it all away like they always do... Actually, the Catholic Church was the group that assembled the New Testament as we know today. The Catholic Church's early scholars in 180 A.D. REJECTED the so-called Gospel of Judas as being NOT INSPIRED (along with many other books). I HIGHLY doubt that are going to change their minds (and nor should they). In fact, I saw the following in a news article: Vatican officials have denied that the publication this week is part of a rehabilitation of Judas by the Catholic Church. ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-04-03_1039276.html |
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Post by lacpastorunplugged on Apr 11, 2006 12:43:35 GMT -5
You are right the church DOES NOT NEED balance. It needs truth, and truth isn't formed by consensus. Karl Hi Karl/lacpastor, I agree to a point that the church may not need to put up a vote to determine it's doctrine. However, when only one side of a story is accepted and subsequently presented, it begs to question the validity of the stance presented. That is my point, that I seriously doubt that the Church (in general) will ever give the Gospel of Judas even a look see. Sure, some people will, but over all most will not even consider it. I don't mind if people review different sides and then still side with the view they already agreed with... to me that is still retaining some kind of balance in openmindedness. Have a grateful day, andy They have been giving it more than a look see for more than a few years. I read it and find that it just is way out of character with the other writings, Old and New Testament, as it pertains to God, the Messiah, salvation; to name a few. I don't "dismiss" it. But I believe that it's greatest contribution is the glimpse into the thinking of the pseudo christian sects that sprung up in the first century of the Christian faith's existence. Karl |
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Post by tower of babel on Apr 11, 2006 22:57:01 GMT -5
"the Catholic church plans to re-instate Judas and not consider him anymore as a traitor"What kinda bull is that? They figure they have the authority to "reinstate" someone??? Arrogance!!! Oh well, it's better than the 2x2s, they'll probably just reason it all away like they always do... Actually, the Catholic Church was the group that assembled the New Testament as we know today. ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-04-03_1039276.htmlYou sometimes shock me at your arrogant knowledge of false teachings about the history of the bible... If you believe everything the caths. say, then I can not agree with you, I have reasons to believe there was a bible that was preserved within the church.....meaning those that kept the truth of the early church, NOT the errant beliefs that were brought by constantines attempt/sucess at 'secularizing' and establishing catholic religion in the roman world.....which only served to 'mock' true believers in Christ..... |
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Post by MsMarie on Apr 12, 2006 4:03:06 GMT -5
Last week in the English newspaper, Daily Mail, there was a double spread about the Judas Gospel, how it threw doubt on the resurrection, how it contradicted the accepted scriptural version etc.
Yesterday I noticed a tiny two line article which said that the Judas Gospel is now considered to be written too late to be of any real significance.
Today, there is a big article saying that science proves that near death experiences are just dreams. How they fall over themselves to destroy all Christian hope!
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Post by Spectre on Apr 12, 2006 4:22:18 GMT -5
ghost, why in your reply #33 do you think the 2x2's (presumably in light of the Gospel of Judas) should change some of their views and become like the Catholic Church and reinstate Judas and not consider him a traitor, WHEN the Apostle LUKE recorden in Luke 6:16 that Judas Iscariot WAS a traitor !
Who do you believe
1) The Apostle Luke
2) The Supoosed Gospel of Judas Iscariot
3) The Catholic Church
Are you sure you have the Catholic Church's true position on this matter ?
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Post by MsMarie on Apr 12, 2006 5:52:37 GMT -5
As I just said, please stop disagreeing, the gospel of Judas has been officially discredited!!
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Post by Pete on Apr 12, 2006 6:16:25 GMT -5
"In those days, the way of the traitor will become truth, the church of the empire will have set its seal, and the words of the Apostle will be brought to nought !"
Gene Nelson - 1987 (his first prophetic vision revealed to an inuit repairing his kayak)
I'm sorry, but the above posts just brought this to mind. I'm amazed at the similarities between what has been discussed and what Gene prophesied all those years ago. Is our Gene the "real" William Irvine ?
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Post by ghost on Apr 12, 2006 7:20:02 GMT -5
ghost, why in your reply #33 do you think the 2x2's (presumably in light of the Gospel of Judas) should change some of their views and become like the Catholic Church and reinstate Judas and not consider him a traitor, WHEN the Apostle LUKE recorden in Luke 6:16 that Judas Iscariot WAS a traitor ! Who do you believe 1) The Apostle Luke 2) The Supoosed Gospel of Judas Iscariot 3) The Catholic Church Are you sure you have the Catholic Church's true position on this matter ? Personally NONE of the above ! |
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Post by Spectre on Apr 12, 2006 8:41:44 GMT -5
So why are you so taken up with what the 2x2's believe or should believe ?
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towit
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Post by towit on Apr 12, 2006 8:44:47 GMT -5
You sometimes shock me at your arrogant knowledge of false teachings about the history of the bible... If you believe everything the caths. say, then I can not agree with you, I have reasons to believe there was a bible that was preserved within the church.....meaning those that kept the truth of the early church, NOT the errant beliefs that were brought by constantines attempt/sucess at 'secularizing' and establishing catholic religion in the roman world.....which only served to 'mock' true believers in Christ..... Regarding my so called false teachings of the history of the bible- I gathered my information from more than one source- mostly secular sources. I can't imagine them having a bias for the Catholic Church. It seems you don't like the fact that the so-called Gospel of Judas was already discredited before the New Testament was assembled- along with many other books/letters. I can't for the life of me figure out why you "called me out" on this one. We have a very nice New Testament. WHOMEVER (I like to think that it was men inspired by God) assembled the book did a great job- it has helped change the course of the world. Sincerely, towit |
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Post by as i c it on Apr 12, 2006 14:41:26 GMT -5
Towit,
I agree (the Bible has helped change the course of the world). All the wisdom to do with human interactions was known--and covered--long before psychologists/motivational speakers, etc.--came into existence.
Christ "elevated" women and children--in a society were both were easily "dismissed". And true equality (between those married) for both--was expressed...(in a male dominated society).
"Healthy" mind: body: soul": family: society: relationships: and civilization---all ours today, because we became Christian nations.
Quite a difference in "benefits"exist because of our religion...from other nations that aren't.
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towit
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Post by towit on Apr 12, 2006 15:00:29 GMT -5
Last week in the English newspaper, Daily Mail, there was a double spread about the Judas Gospel, how it threw doubt on the resurrection, how it contradicted the accepted scriptural version etc. Yesterday I noticed a tiny two line article which said that the Judas Gospel is now considered to be written too late to be of any real significance. Today, there is a big article saying that science proves that near death experiences are just dreams. How they fall over themselves to destroy all Christian hope! Hi, to add to your list. . . there was also the study out recently in the news regarding "prayer not helpful in healing." NEW YORK — In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189691,00.html |
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Post by Catholic scholars on Apr 13, 2006 2:40:45 GMT -5
We have a panel of Catholic monks, scholars, and officials, to thank for the canon of scripture that we place so much stock in.
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