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Post by Hard Evidence on Sept 5, 2007 1:28:10 GMT -5
A few of you keep saying there's proof of the F&W before William Irvine. Well let's see it. Let's see the proof. Put up or shut up. You say its out there yet you provide no evidence. All you have to back up your claims is wishful thinking, bad rumors, and hearsay.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 1:59:20 GMT -5
the bible says people were professing, says there were workers, and Jesus called them Friends .....and those wise men worshipped Jesus in a house.... (and they still do) maybe not proof, but its still evidence (of things unseen)Jesus is still the same and ever will remain through time to come.....
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 2:01:48 GMT -5
my heart is resting oh my God....
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Post by a believer on Sept 5, 2007 3:29:23 GMT -5
the bible says people were professing, says there were workers, and Jesus called them Friends .....and those wise men worshipped Jesus in a house.... (and they still do) maybe not proof, but its still evidence (of things unseen)Jesus is still the same and ever will remain through time to come..... So you are admitting that there is no evidence that your group existed before William Irvine started it in 1897?? I can prove that my church goes back to Jesus because they were called Christians in the Bible and we call ourselves Christians. Now really what terminology we use is no proof that we go back to Jesus. History is the proof and there is no history of the workers group existing before William Irvine started it.
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matia
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Post by matia on Sept 5, 2007 4:15:00 GMT -5
hard evidence and believer / You are so right,/ where is the evidence ,/ if not be truthfull and tell your followers the truth / and dont' dribble
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 4:34:26 GMT -5
the bible says people were professing, says there were workers, and Jesus called them Friends .....and those wise men worshipped Jesus in a house.... (and they still do) maybe not proof, but its still evidence (of things unseen)Jesus is still the same and ever will remain through time to come..... So you are admitting that there is no evidence that your group existed before William Irvine started it in 1897?? I can prove that my church goes back to Jesus because they were called Christians in the Bible and we call ourselves Christians. Now really what terminology we use is no proof that we go back to Jesus. History is the proof and there is no history of the workers group existing before William Irvine started it. faith stealer, how dare you? get thee behind me, satan. prove william irvine started the truth... show me his own handwriting saying he is starting the original true church up again hundreds of years or however long later.
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Post by ii on Sept 5, 2007 4:37:29 GMT -5
hard evidence and believer / You are so right,/ where is the evidence ,/ if not be truthfull and tell your followers the truth / and dont' dribble And they also said that Jesus had no evidence, was untruthfull and a liar.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 4:39:03 GMT -5
they sure did
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_
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 4:39:45 GMT -5
hard evidence and believer / You are so right,/ where is the evidence ,/ if not be truthfull and tell your followers the truth / and dont' dribble And they also said that Jesus had no evidence, was untruthfull and a liar. and what exactly is your point in reference to this issue?
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 4:43:42 GMT -5
it was when they were saying he was a liar and casting out devils through beelzebub, chief of the devils... thats one point of reference that covers both of what you are asking, the evidence (devils being cast out) and them calling him a liar....
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Post by really on Sept 5, 2007 5:39:28 GMT -5
so the workers are Jesus are they? the workers accuse Christians of being of the devil all the time.. so they are the accusers of the brethern..
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 5:56:47 GMT -5
translation: tell us plainly, art thou the Son of God? yup, just like i am, we are sons of God, and if your not, sorry to hear that... wow its true !! this generation is just not going to pass until all things be fullfilled
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 6:13:20 GMT -5
And while we are at it, how about some proof of Moses, or Jesus for that matter...
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timber
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Post by timber on Sept 5, 2007 8:22:26 GMT -5
You are not answering the question Bert and Nathan. If we don't know, we don't know. Sophistry, red herrings, attacking the questioner won't work.
Let us consider Jesus and forget about the other stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 9:55:34 GMT -5
Although it is not a big issue with me I find it rather amazing that after all the research that honest concerned people have put into the question, and the enormous documented evidence, there are still folks so self-focused that they won't accept the groups begining with Irvine. Even most knowledgable workers accept the fact.
It takes a quite major distortion of basic truth to deny Irvines role in starting the movement.
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arlis
Junior Member
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Post by arlis on Sept 5, 2007 10:12:49 GMT -5
So you are admitting that there is no evidence that your group existed before William Irvine started it in 1897?? I can prove that my church goes back to Jesus because they were called Christians in the Bible and we call ourselves Christians. Now really what terminology we use is no proof that we go back to Jesus. History is the proof and there is no history of the workers group existing before William Irvine started it. faith stealer, how dare you? get thee behind me, satan. prove william irvine started the truth... show me his own handwriting saying he is starting the original true church up again hundreds of years or however long later. Read The Secret Sect, my dear.
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Post by ranman77007 on Sept 5, 2007 10:57:08 GMT -5
someday maybe.... but its not a big issue to me... its God i go to for info... when it comes to religion, i figure that if God won't tell me in a Spirit of love, then i will just never know for sure....
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Post by and on Sept 5, 2007 11:06:58 GMT -5
I go to God for info too, and He told me to get out of the 2x2 group 19 years ago.
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Sept 5, 2007 11:20:15 GMT -5
It seems to me that when I heard the workers speaking in my beginning, they were speaking into the mike.... and what I was hearing to my soul was from the Spirit.
So... was that a beginning born of the workers or of the Spirit?
I don't really need to ask that question, because I know it was of the Spirit. Today I believe the leading of the Spirit is more important than what I hear of others. I do however always make sure what I am hearing is lining up with the scripture.
This issue of the origins is a mote point... because if you are not worshiping in spirit and truth, you have not put your faith in the correct thing anyway. Those who are born of the spirit and have faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, understand where their beginnings came from and WI had nothing to do with it at all.
F&W's before WI? WHO CARES!!!!! IT DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!!
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Post by junia on Sept 5, 2007 11:37:40 GMT -5
F&W's before WI? WHO CARES!!!!! IT DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!! It doesn't matter, other than the fact the true history has been covered up, distorted and lied about. Dishonesty matters. IMO, a more important problem is the exclusive beliefs of F&Ws and the relative ignorance of grace.
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timber
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Post by timber on Sept 5, 2007 11:44:25 GMT -5
I don't care about it anymore either. I prefer to consider Jesus, his Way, His Life, His Death, His resurrection.
Actually, I take back my previous post to Nathan and Bert. I don't care how and if you answer the question. And I'm sure you don't care that I don't care.
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your logic is faulty
Guest
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Post by your logic is faulty on Sept 5, 2007 12:23:42 GMT -5
And they also said that Jesus had no evidence, was untruthfull and a liar. So what? Does this mean that we are to believe EVERYONE WHO COMES ALONG with no evidence, is untruthful, and a liar? Lay off the dope man.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 5, 2007 12:28:10 GMT -5
A few of you keep saying there's proof of the F&W before William Irvine. Well let's see it. Let's see the proof. Put up or shut up. You say its out there yet you provide no evidence. All you have to back up your claims is wishful thinking, bad rumors, and hearsay. The workers believe in denominations on one hand &on the other they don't huh lol go figure...they probably realize we all decented from somewhere!
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Post by las logged out on Sept 5, 2007 12:31:22 GMT -5
F&W's before WI? WHO CARES!!!!! IT DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!!!
even if there has been deliberate cover ups..you mean it doesn't matter ?
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Iris
New Member
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Post by Iris on Sept 5, 2007 12:59:47 GMT -5
In 1912 here was a ship that left South Hampton England for the states. Rumor had it , it sank and then low & behold there were surviviors, first hand accounts of the ordeal, there were life boats that had come directly from this ship delivered to the docks in nyc. They even had a picture of it in the newspaper that same week describing all the details.
I didn't see this ship sink nor did I talk to any of those who remained from the voyage but I can read.
There are many detailed articles and books written on this subject.
Do you believe ?
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Sept 5, 2007 13:03:44 GMT -5
I don't know where the cover up comes in... since me and my family have known about it for well over 2/3rds of the 100+ years and have talked about it openly for that length of time.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 5, 2007 14:50:08 GMT -5
I don't know where the cover up comes in... since me and my family have known about it for well over 2/3rds of the 100+ years and have talked about it openly for that length of time. My question did you communicate this what you knew to other two by two's ?
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Post by guest i on Sept 5, 2007 18:36:02 GMT -5
faith stealer, how dare you? get thee behind me, satan. prove william irvine started the truth... show me his own handwriting saying he is starting the original true church up again hundreds of years or however long later. Read The Secret Sect, my dear. Do you mean the unabridged edition? or the highly edited version. My dear, my dear, arlis, I cannot believe you cannot understand ? Sorry to read this , but then people will believe whatever they want to. It makes so little sense that this would have been really considered as Irvines church even back then, as it was hardly under his authority,even his buddy Ed was erroring before Will fell off the wagon, of pride.....whatever happened then, it was meant to follow the teachings set forth more perfectly by Jesus in the NT, and demonstated to be worthy of replication even in todays world, thanks....
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