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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 8, 2024 19:48:09 GMT -5
On the 19th/20th of October there is a De-Cult Conference happening in Christchurch. The 2X2 Church features in this conference, and one of the Keynote Speakers is Laura McConnell-Conti from Australia
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Post by fixit on Oct 8, 2024 23:37:46 GMT -5
On the 19th/20th of October there is a De-Cult Conference happening in Christchurch. The 2X2 Church features in this conference, and one of the Keynote Speakers is Laura McConnell-Conti from Australia I agree that the word "cult" is a weakly defined term. All too often people who are themselves brainwashed will use the word to condemn other groups. cult noun A weakly defined term that should be updated to encompass coercive control and address the human rights abuses of such groups |
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 8, 2024 23:47:28 GMT -5
My summation is of it is a movement that became a sect. There are certainly some people (Workers and Friends) who have developed a cult mentality, and we are probably seeing this more overseas than in New Zealand.
I tend to not call it a cult for two reasons. 1) I think it is unhelpful, and 2) there are a good number of people who enjoy the Sunday Fellowship, are not exclusivists, and they are not controlled by the workers.
For example: Have you ever tried saying to an Exclusive Brethren, Mormon, or JW that they're in a cult. Did it make them want to leave? No, it would be insulting and you don't know what pressures they might be feeling to stay, or quite simply they like it.
I can think of a number of famous Mormons and Scientologists who could leave anytime they wanted, but they choose to stay.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 8, 2024 23:59:29 GMT -5
My summation is of it is a movement that became a sect. There are certainly some people (Workers and Friends) who have developed a cult mentality, and we are probably seeing this more overseas than in New Zealand. I tend to not call it a cult for two reasons. 1) I think it is unhelpful, and 2) there are a good number of people who enjoy the Sunday Fellowship, are not exclusivists, and they are not controlled by the workers. For example: Have you ever tried saying to an Exclusive Brethren, Mormon, or JW that they're in a cult. Did it make them want to leave? No, it would be insulting and you don't know what pressures they might be feeling to stay, or quite simply they like it. I can think of a number of famous Mormons and Scientologists who could leave anytime they wanted, but they choose to stay. I believe that some people survive much better in a so called cult than others. I know lots of people who go to meetings and have no problem disagreeing with a worker/s on anything they disagree with. And then there are others who need a worker to advise them on medical care and such. They're the ones who are vulnerable to being trapped cult-like in a group and take all kinds of crap. Workers know who they can do that to. And they can reasonably handle the ones who can think for themselves, as long as they're no threat to himself or to the ministry. If they feel threatened in some way by a lesser they can get scared, and when they get scared they can get angry and behave inappropriately. That's how a lot of excommunications come about. |
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Post by finlandia on Oct 10, 2024 3:54:37 GMT -5
One definition of a cult is "something that is easy to join and difficult to leave". There is a sense in which our fellowship is difficult to join (spiritual awakening/rebirth is needed) but dead easy - in one sense - to leave. I have several good friends (professing people for many years with meetings in their homes) who just stopped within the past year. No one applied any pressure on them to return although many reached out to them in kindness.
I have, for a number of years now, rejected the doctrine of exclusivity. It's bonkers. Saying "I'm right but everyone else is wrong" is akin to the spirit of the Scribes and Pharisees that our Lord so clearly exposed. But I stay where I am because of the nature of our fellowship which sustains my spiritual growth. I don't believe either that the two by two celibate ministry is the only way to carry the Gospel (to say it is the only way is just not scriptural). But I accept that workers leading dedicated and sacrificial lives may well have the Spirit of God and can bring new life to unbelievers.
However, I completely reject the notion that I belong to a cult. I have an open mind and if I was seriously unhappy, I would walk away. Also, I am not unique in this respect - I know of others who feel the same way.
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Post by fixit on Oct 10, 2024 4:17:29 GMT -5
One definition of a cult is "something that is easy to join and difficult to leave". There is a sense in which our fellowship is difficult to join (spiritual awakening/rebirth is needed) but dead easy - in one sense - to leave. There is also a sense in which our fellowship is easy to join (just follow the system that you've known all your life) and difficult to leave (because you're following the system that you've known all your life along with your grandparents, parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, best friends, children, grandchildren etc). |
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Post by finlandia on Oct 10, 2024 4:34:59 GMT -5
One definition of a cult is "something that is easy to join and difficult to leave". There is a sense in which our fellowship is difficult to join (spiritual awakening/rebirth is needed) but dead easy - in one sense - to leave. There is also a sense in which our fellowship is easy to join (just follow the system that you've known all your life) and difficult to leave (because you're following the system that you've known all your life along with your grandparents, parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, best friends, children, grandchildren etc). Would you say that it is a cult then, fixit? Although brought-up in this way, I found it difficult to "join" (a struggle within). But no-one is stopping me from walking away, if that is what I decided to do. |
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Post by Annan on Oct 10, 2024 5:46:45 GMT -5
One definition of a cult is "something that is easy to join and difficult to leave". There is a sense in which our fellowship is difficult to join (spiritual awakening/rebirth is needed) but dead easy - in one sense - to leave. There is also a sense in which our fellowship is easy to join (just follow the system that you've known all your life) and difficult to leave (because you're following the system that you've known all your life along with your grandparents, parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, best friends, children, grandchildren etc). I can't say I left the cult as I was never a believer. What I left was my family. My dad said I was a bad influence on my siblings, so I was thrown out of the house at age 18. I had no support or friends as I had been isolated my entire life and physically and mentally abused with the cult teachings being the justification. Waling away from the cult as an adult must be hard, but one has resources that a child doesn't have. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 10, 2024 12:08:44 GMT -5
One definition of a cult is "something that is easy to join and difficult to leave". There is a sense in which our fellowship is difficult to join (spiritual awakening/rebirth is needed) but dead easy - in one sense - to leave. I have several good friends (professing people for many years with meetings in their homes) who just stopped within the past year. No one applied any pressure on them to return although many reached out to them in kindness. I have, for a number of years now, rejected the doctrine of exclusivity. It's bonkers. Saying "I'm right but everyone else is wrong" is akin to the spirit of the Scribes and Pharisees that our Lord so clearly exposed. But I stay where I am because of the nature of our fellowship which sustains my spiritual growth. I don't believe either that the two by two celibate ministry is the only way to carry the Gospel (to say it is the only way is just not scriptural). But I accept that workers leading dedicated and sacrificial lives may well have the Spirit of God and can bring new life to unbelievers. However, I completely reject the notion that I belong to a cult. I have an open mind and if I was seriously unhappy, I would walk away. Also, I am not unique in this respect - I know of others who feel the same way. I am not "in" and have not been for a number of years. If I was still in I would leave because I am fussy about the company I keep. I think back to some of the people I have met with in meetings or sometimes socially who were later revealed to be deviants in some way. A panty pincher, wife beaters, baby sitter rapists, male rapes male, fraudsters, thieves are just some of them. There are still good people who go to meetings and that troubles me but it is their choice. |
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Post by fixit on Oct 10, 2024 13:45:28 GMT -5
There is also a sense in which our fellowship is easy to join (just follow the system that you've known all your life) and difficult to leave (because you're following the system that you've known all your life along with your grandparents, parents, uncles, aunties, cousins, best friends, children, grandchildren etc). Would you say that it is a cult then, fixit? Although brought-up in this way, I found it difficult to "join" (a struggle within). But no-one is stopping me from walking away, if that is what I decided to do. I see it much as you do. To some it will be a cult, to others not. |
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Post by snow on Oct 10, 2024 14:09:44 GMT -5
There is so much more to a cult than being easy to join and hard to leave. I agree with fixit that some people are more vulnerable to the authoritarian leadership and it becomes more cult like for them. But the 2x2 organization does tick a lot of boxes for cult mentality. The fact that workers tell the friends to no longer associate with or go to fellowship meetings with those they have excommunicated is a big one. The fact that the workers say only the friends are going to heaven and everyone else is false/wrong is a major motivator for people to not be able to leave for fear they will lose their salvation. The fact that the friends are discouraged by the workers to associate with the world other than for their jobs. Those who have left recently are beginning to realize just how manipulated they had been. Many are upset with themselves for judging those who left before they did as 'lost and bitter'. They now realize that they are not a different person than they were, just free to accept more people without judgement from the workers and other friends. So it remains to be seen just how much a person that is still 'in' can recognize the cultish aspects. There are definitely some of the friends, and I see fixit and others on here as in that group, that are not manipulated by the workers and don't believe they are the only group going to heaven or that those who leave are just bitter and lost. They just enjoy the way the system of fellowship in homes/conventions works. And, I think it's not a bad way of having fellowship. The problem is that the workers have taken a good thing and corrupted it with the insane rules and fear mongering. According to the Cult Education Institute, there are specific warning signs to look out for when considering whether a group might be a cult. Cults are characterized by:
Absolute authoritarianism without accountability
Zero tolerance for criticism or questions
Lack of meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget
Unreasonable fears about the outside world that often involve evil conspiracies and persecutions
A belief that former followers are always wrong for leaving and there is never a legitimate reason for anyone else to leave
Abuse of members
Records, books, articles, or programs documenting the abuses of the leader or group (we are seeing people saying these documentations are just lies to do damage to the Truth when it comes to the FBI reports and CSA convictions and allegations)
Followers feeling they are never able to be “good enough”
A belief that the leader is right at all times
A belief that the leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or giving validationwww.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-cult-5078234 |
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Post by finlandia on Oct 11, 2024 3:28:39 GMT -5
I would say that, over the last couple of years, there has been a significant cultural shift in the fellowship. At least, that is the case here in the U.K. Some have just walked away, of course. But for most of those who remain, the ministry is viewed in a different light: there is a new sense of humility amongst the workers and the days when they can dictate what people do and who they associate with are gone. We regularly meet up for a meal with several couples who have left the fellowship and the workers are aware of this. We still regard these couples as our brothers and sisters in Christ although not everyone would go as far as that! The significant point is that our views are respected even if they are not always agreed with. I also think that friends are a bit more careful now with their money - there is a feeling that there was too much money swilling around before (particularly in the USA) and no proper accountability.
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Post by Admin on Oct 11, 2024 7:50:14 GMT -5
I can't say I left the cult as I was never a believer. What I left was my family. My dad said I was a bad influence on my siblings, so I was thrown out of the house at age 18. I had no support or friends as I had been isolated my entire life and physically and mentally abused with the cult teachings being the justification. Waling away from the cult as an adult must be hard, but one has resources that a child doesn't have. , I am so sorry. What an absolutely dreadful (and dare I say, ungodly in the extreme) experience as a young girl. Your dad embraced the 2x2 system in a cultish fashion, and you experienced the very worst of that cult-like behavior. It doesn't have to be like that, and it shouldn't ever be that way in a genuine Christian church. As fixit said, "To some it will be a cult, to others not." |
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Post by Annan on Oct 11, 2024 10:04:55 GMT -5
I can't say I left the cult as I was never a believer. What I left was my family. My dad said I was a bad influence on my siblings, so I was thrown out of the house at age 18. I had no support or friends as I had been isolated my entire life and physically and mentally abused with the cult teachings being the justification. Waling away from the cult as an adult must be hard, but one has resources that a child doesn't have. , I am so sorry. What an absolutely dreadful (and dare I say, ungodly in the extreme) experience as a young girl. Your dad embraced the 2x2 system in a cultish fashion, and you experienced the very worst of that cult-like behavior. It doesn't have to be like that, and it shouldn't ever be that way in a genuine Christian church. As fixit said, "To some it will be a cult, to others not." Thank you. Much appreciated. I post my experiences as I know there are others that have experienced the same. Like someone said here once, "Me too." All my life I have kept asking of the cult, "Where's the love?" It has been a long time coming, but I am healing well. When my dad passed a few years ago and the last cord was cut, my chronic psoriasis cleared up overnight! I am at peace. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 11, 2024 16:08:37 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your experience Annan, and I am glad that the underlying stress has gone, resulting in a clearing up of your psoriasis. It must have been one heck of an experience for you at a young age, but you have my respect for being so true to your convictions. And more importantly, you're at peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers, and that includes those that make Peace within their own lives too, in my opinion.
We are seeing quite a few media articles all centered around the de-Cult conference, including one today by an ex-Jehovah's Witness. They all resonate with the same theme, and it is as you say, "Where is the love?"
While the 2X2 doesn't have the policy of shunning, it does happen in other ways. You notice the that innies will never say Amen to a Prayer or Grace given by an ex, or non-member. Some will try and avoid an ex where they can, probably in order to avoid awkward conversation. I have heard of some innies crossing the road to avoid an ex.
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Post by Annan on Oct 11, 2024 18:22:14 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your experience Annan, and I am glad that the underlying stress has gone, resulting in a clearing up of your psoriasis. It must have been one heck of an experience for you at a young age, but you have my respect for being so true to your convictions. And more importantly, you're at peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers, and that includes those that make Peace within their own lives too, in my opinion. We are seeing quite a few media articles all centered around the de-Cult conference, including one today by an ex-Jehovah's Witness. They all resonate with the same theme, and it is as you say, "Where is the love?" While the 2X2 doesn't have the policy of shunning, it does happen in other ways. You notice the that innies will never say Amen to a Prayer or Grace given by an ex, or non-member. Some will try and avoid an ex where they can, probably in order to avoid awkward conversation. I have heard of some innies crossing the road to avoid an ex. I remember a lady at convention, whose husband divorced her, that was not allowed to take part in meetings. My mother asked, "If God forgives, why not man?" |
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Post by Lee on Oct 11, 2024 22:36:34 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your experience Annan, and I am glad that the underlying stress has gone, resulting in a clearing up of your psoriasis. It must have been one heck of an experience for you at a young age, but you have my respect for being so true to your convictions. And more importantly, you're at peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers, and that includes those that make Peace within their own lives too, in my opinion. We are seeing quite a few media articles all centered around the de-Cult conference, including one today by an ex-Jehovah's Witness. They all resonate with the same theme, and it is as you say, "Where is the love?" While the 2X2 doesn't have the policy of shunning, it does happen in other ways. You notice the that innies will never say Amen to a Prayer or Grace given by an ex, or non-member. Some will try and avoid an ex where they can, probably in order to avoid awkward conversation. I have heard of some innies crossing the road to avoid an ex. Often times shunning is passive, subtle. To the point, instead of inquiring intelligently of a relative’s non participation or defection, I was advised recently, “He’s resisting”. What a tangled web we weave, when first we gather to deceive |
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 11, 2024 22:59:35 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your experience Annan, and I am glad that the underlying stress has gone, resulting in a clearing up of your psoriasis. It must have been one heck of an experience for you at a young age, but you have my respect for being so true to your convictions. And more importantly, you're at peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers, and that includes those that make Peace within their own lives too, in my opinion. We are seeing quite a few media articles all centered around the de-Cult conference, including one today by an ex-Jehovah's Witness. They all resonate with the same theme, and it is as you say, "Where is the love?" While the 2X2 doesn't have the policy of shunning, it does happen in other ways. You notice the that innies will never say Amen to a Prayer or Grace given by an ex, or non-member. Some will try and avoid an ex where they can, probably in order to avoid awkward conversation. I have heard of some innies crossing the road to avoid an ex. Often times shunning is passive, subtle. To the point, instead of inquiring intelligently of a relative’s non participation or defection, I was advised recently, “He’s resisting”. What a tangled web we weave, when first we gather to deceive It's a learned skill. |
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Post by Lee on Oct 11, 2024 23:22:11 GMT -5
Yup. I call it a perversion.
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Post by Dan on Oct 12, 2024 0:47:04 GMT -5
I personally never perceived the Truth as any kind of cult. To me, it was simply a unique group with a biblically based ministry. People were free to come and go as they pleased.
The rules were too strict for me and I never understood the emphasis they put on 'worldly' separation. Its easy for people who left to say they were ostracized, but in reality they left because they no longer shared the friends common belief.
Of course they have standards they believe and uphold, but no one is force fed or controlled, just inspired to maintain their perception of what a Christian life should be. Some exes may have felt brainwashed or controlled, but the Truth is what it is.
All churches have parameters of what is and isn't acceptable and expect the congregation to abide by the rules. Those who disagree or can't hack it can just step out the door, but in such cases its not the church that's abandoning them but they who have abandoned the church.
It is an unusual strict sect, but there's no forced control, so I don't think it meets the definition of a cult. Many churches are convinced they are the only correct way, and followers are likewise convinced, but that doesn't constitute a cult... jmo
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Post by Pragmatic on Oct 12, 2024 0:55:44 GMT -5
I personally never perceived the Truth as any kind of cult. To me, it was simply a unique group with a biblically based ministry. People were free to come and go as they pleased.
The rules were too strict for me and I never understood the emphasis they put on 'worldly' separation. Its easy for people who left to say they were ostracized, but in reality they left because they no longer shared the friends common belief.
Of course they have standards they believe and uphold, but no one is force fed or controlled, just inspired to maintain their perception of what a Christian life should be. Some exes may have felt brainwashed or controlled, but the Truth is what it is.
All churches have parameters of what is and isn't acceptable and expect the congregation to abide by the rules. Those who disagree or can't hack it can just step out the door, but in such cases its not the church that's abandoning them but they who have abandoned the church.
It is an unusual strict sect, but there's no forced control, so I don't think it meets the definition of a cult. Many churches are convinced they are the only correct way, and followers are likewise convinced, but that doesn't constitute a cult... jmo
This is only your opinion, of course, and within the bounds of your own experience. It is not like that for others, and in other parts of the world. People that that are born into it are also less free to leave than than those who were not. Some of this is familial ties, but the church never discouraged it.
We have recently had witness to a suicide by a well respected medical doctor. Yes there were complex layers to his makeup, but PTSD attributed to his growing up in the church, and the strict controls, has been alluded to, and even at his memorial service.
Like I say, it may not be a cult, but there are a number who demonstrate cult like traits.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 12, 2024 1:50:14 GMT -5
I personally never perceived the Truth as any kind of cult. To me, it was simply a unique group with a biblically based ministry. People were free to come and go as they pleased.
The rules were too strict for me and I never understood the emphasis they put on 'worldly' separation. Its easy for people who left to say they were ostracized, but in reality they left because they no longer shared the friends common belief. Of course they have standards they believe and uphold, but no one is force fed or controlled, just inspired to maintain their perception of what a Christian life should be. Some exes may have felt brainwashed or controlled, but the Truth is what it is. All churches have parameters of what is and isn't acceptable and expect the congregation to abide by the rules. Those who disagree or can't hack it can just step out the door, but in such cases its not the church that's abandoning them but they who have abandoned the church. It is an unusual strict sect, but there's no forced control, so I don't think it meets the definition of a cult. Many churches are convinced they are the only correct way, and followers are likewise convinced, but that doesn't constitute a cult... jmo
I suspect this is your experience because you never got pushed into the mold of "it's the only way to heaven and the only alternative is hell." It's a parental indoctrination that comes with parents who believe it and would love to have their kids become workers. When a preschooler comes to understand that everything else is the road to hell, that, my friend, you cannot just decide to leave if you're not happy with it. My parents didn't do that with me, but there were a lot of people who were interested in programming me just into that mindset. And I saw what it did to a lot of the kids I grew up with who couldn't deal with it as you have -- they just lacked the wherewithal to make those kinds of decisions. You have to realize that your type are a real small minority of kids raised by professing parents. I also suspect that the workers suspected they couldn't use their "grooming" techniques on you without raising your parents' suspicions. They weren't taught from their preschool days how perfect the workers were in all aspects. I never let my kids be alone with workers - - period. I never appreciated the little talks the workers had with me behind my parents' back. |
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Post by Annan on Oct 12, 2024 7:02:21 GMT -5
I personally never perceived the Truth as any kind of cult. To me, it was simply a unique group with a biblically based ministry. People were free to come and go as they pleased.
The rules were too strict for me and I never understood the emphasis they put on 'worldly' separation. Its easy for people who left to say they were ostracized, but in reality they left because they no longer shared the friends common belief. Of course they have standards they believe and uphold, but no one is force fed or controlled, just inspired to maintain their perception of what a Christian life should be. Some exes may have felt brainwashed or controlled, but the Truth is what it is. All churches have parameters of what is and isn't acceptable and expect the congregation to abide by the rules. Those who disagree or can't hack it can just step out the door, but in such cases its not the church that's abandoning them but they who have abandoned the church. It is an unusual strict sect, but there's no forced control, so I don't think it meets the definition of a cult. Many churches are convinced they are the only correct way, and followers are likewise convinced, but that doesn't constitute a cult... jmo
I suspect this is your experience because you never got pushed into the mold of "it's the only way to heaven and the only alternative is hell." It's a parental indoctrination that comes with parents who believe it and would love to have their kids become workers. When a preschooler comes to understand that everything else is the road to hell, that, my friend, you cannot just decide to leave if you're not happy with it. My parents didn't do that with me, but there were a lot of people who were interested in programming me just into that mindset. And I saw what it did to a lot of the kids I grew up with who couldn't deal with it as you have -- they just lacked the wherewithal to make those kinds of decisions. You have to realize that your type are a real small minority of kids raised by professing parents. I also suspect that the workers suspected they couldn't use their "grooming" techniques on you without raising your parents' suspicions. They weren't taught from their preschool days how perfect the workers were in all aspects. I never let my kids be alone with workers - - period. I never appreciated the little talks the workers had with me behind my parents' back. Thank you for that. As a female, I was forced to wear my skirts below my knees when my peers wore mini skirts. I was not allowed to participate in sports or any activity that "called attention" to oneself. (There was the shy little violet story.) It was rare that I was allowed to attend a local dance. (This was after a lot of begging and explaining why I should be allowed to do so.) I was ostracized by my peers who teased and made fun of me. I longed for summer when I didn't have to attend school. I shied away from public as I didn't want anyone to see me and make fun of me. My parents forced me to look different. That hurts a child who longs for friends and companionship. On Sundays we had to be quiet and not allowed to play or go anywhere, even for a walk. We had to pay attention in Sunday morning and special meeting as we were required to recite what was said. I don't know how it is for a male, but for a female, it is hell. I remember my unprofessing mother say how she hated having to wear her hair in a bun. She was under my dad's control. There were no other cult members in our area. All I had was my sister. I realize my parents were to blame for their extremism, but I know others share my story. The one thing that does please me is when my father found out the cult wasn't descended from "the shores of Galilee". The questioned workers admitted so. My dad asked the workers if my unprofessing mother was going to hell. When they said yes, he asked them why it was okay for them to sleep on the sheets she washed, stay in the house she cleaned, and eat the food she prepared. He then asked them to leave. |
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Post by Dan on Oct 13, 2024 0:55:05 GMT -5
I suspect this is your experience because you never got pushed into the mold of "it's the only way to heaven and the only alternative is hell." It's a parental indoctrination that comes with parents who believe it and would love to have their kids become workers. When a preschooler comes to understand that everything else is the road to hell, that, my friend, you cannot just decide to leave if you're not happy with it. My parents didn't do that with me, but there were a lot of people who were interested in programming me just into that mindset. And I saw what it did to a lot of the kids I grew up with who couldn't deal with it as you have -- they just lacked the wherewithal to make those kinds of decisions. You have to realize that your type are a real small minority of kids raised by professing parents. I also suspect that the workers suspected they couldn't use their "grooming" techniques on you without raising your parents' suspicions. They weren't taught from their preschool days how perfect the workers were in all aspects. I never let my kids be alone with workers - - period. I never appreciated the little talks the workers had with me behind my parents' back.
Yes, I kinda get that... I wasn't born into it and only professed for about 4 or 5 years, so I was never deeply indoctrinated. My Dad did encourage us to volunteer for the Work, and my 2 sisters went into the Work, but like yourself, I tend to be an independent thinker and wasn't that committed. I did think it was a good, honest, and sincere church and respected what the Workers surrendered in order to preach the gospel. But I never really accepted that it was the only Way, and certainly didn't think leaving was an eternal death sentence. I'd still be there if I thought that. I'm guessing that the Workers had to have discussions with your parents, you were no doubt a stubborn troublemaker  . Your not programmable! |
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Post by Dan on Oct 13, 2024 1:28:55 GMT -5
Thank you for that. As a female, I was forced to wear my skirts below my knees when my peers wore mini skirts. I was not allowed to participate in sports or any activity that "called attention" to oneself. (There was the shy little violet story.) It was rare that I was allowed to attend a local dance. (This was after a lot of begging and explaining why I should be allowed to do so.) I was ostracized by my peers who teased and made fun of me. I longed for summer when I didn't have to attend school. I shied away from public as I didn't want anyone to see me and make fun of me. My parents forced me to look different. That hurts a child who longs for friends and companionship. On Sundays we had to be quiet and not allowed to play or go anywhere, even for a walk. We had to pay attention in Sunday morning and special meeting as we were required to recite what was said. I don't know how it is for a male, but for a female, it is hell. I remember my unprofessing mother say how she hated having to wear her hair in a bun. She was under my dad's control. There were no other cult members in our area. All I had was my sister. I realize my parents were to blame for their extremism, but I know others share my story. The one thing that does please me is when my father found out the cult wasn't descended from "the shores of Galilee". The questioned workers admitted so. My dad asked the workers if my unprofessing mother was going to hell. When they said yes, he asked them why it was okay for them to sleep on the sheets she washed, stay in the house she cleaned, and eat the food she prepared. He then asked them to leave.
Those kind of restrictions and dress codes seemed extreme to me too, and even non-biblical. To me, separating yourself from the world didn't mean in superficial ways or hiding from it, and being modest was more of a characteristic than an outward appearance. It almost seemed like they didn't want you to have any outside interest whatsoever, and therein lies the control aspect. I once asked a Worker what was wrong with watching TV and she said, "Besides all the filth, what if your favorite TV show was aired on Wednesdays nights, would you skip bible study in order to watch it?" It got so that life consisted of work, sleep, and going to meetings. Extremely boring, and it seemed that any other interest or anything enjoyable was construed as worldly and therefore sinful. I just had no desire to live like that, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free", but not in that church. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light”, but they had a way of making it hard and heavy.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 13, 2024 1:44:10 GMT -5
I suspect this is your experience because you never got pushed into the mold of "it's the only way to heaven and the only alternative is hell." It's a parental indoctrination that comes with parents who believe it and would love to have their kids become workers. When a preschooler comes to understand that everything else is the road to hell, that, my friend, you cannot just decide to leave if you're not happy with it. My parents didn't do that with me, but there were a lot of people who were interested in programming me just into that mindset. And I saw what it did to a lot of the kids I grew up with who couldn't deal with it as you have -- they just lacked the wherewithal to make those kinds of decisions. You have to realize that your type are a real small minority of kids raised by professing parents. I also suspect that the workers suspected they couldn't use their "grooming" techniques on you without raising your parents' suspicions. They weren't taught from their preschool days how perfect the workers were in all aspects. I never let my kids be alone with workers - - period. I never appreciated the little talks the workers had with me behind my parents' back. Yes, I kinda get that... I wasn't born into it and only professed for about 4 or 5 years, so I was never deeply indoctrinated. My Dad did encourage us to volunteer for the Work, and my 2 sisters went into the Work, but like yourself, I tend to be an independent thinker and wasn't that committed. I did think it was a good, honest, and sincere church and respected what the Workers surrendered in order to preach the gospel. But I never really accepted that it was the only Way, and certainly didn't think leaving was an eternal death sentence. I'd still be there if I thought that. I'm guessing that the Workers had to have discussions with your parents, you were no doubt a stubborn troublemaker . Your not programmable! I think you're on track -- but it may surprise you that my mother was brought up on the Woodstock convention grounds. Two distinct impressions she gave me. (1) She didn't think the workers were Hot $hit (sorry, you'll understand) She knew a few things about workers that most people knew nothing about until recently. I loved the story she told about the brother workers going out into the family orchard at night to shower naked during a thunder storm. She and her foster sister watched in amazement from their bedroom window. (2) An evangelist knocked on our door one day, and while they were talking she told the guy that if she wouldn't consider converting unless she found something better. Of course, to bolster that, there were several times that she and my father made comments that someone who had been kicked out of meetings were going to be better off than whoever did it to them. That didn't insulate me from the worker sycophants and one-way only believers who preached it the whole time I was growing up -- professing for me was an extremely sober personal experience of my very own taking, as was my decision to leave 50 years later. Frankly, I was perfectly pist at how the ministry had mistreated me and I had exhausted any trust I had in them as an institution. So here I am. Yes, I was a quiet rebel, and frequently got in trouble for pointing out a hypocrisy or duplicitous standard of judgment, but I never believed that had to believe, or do, just whatever the workers told me. I was taught to use my own conscience - - I own what I have accomplished. |
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Post by Dan on Oct 13, 2024 2:12:26 GMT -5
This is only your opinion, of course, and within the bounds of your own experience. It is not like that for others, and in other parts of the world. People that that are born into it are also less free to leave than than those who were not. Some of this is familial ties, but the church never discouraged it.
We have recently had witness to a suicide by a well respected medical doctor. Yes there were complex layers to his makeup, but PTSD attributed to his growing up in the church, and the strict controls, has been alluded to, and even at his memorial service.
Like I say, it may not be a cult, but there are a number who demonstrate cult like traits.
Your right, I was not born into it. While the Truth did turn me into a Christian, I never really bought into the excessively strict lifestyle, nor the biblical reasoning behind it. They had a way of turning non-sinful things sinful, and then making you feel guilty for not complying with it.
Sorry to hear about that doctor, never feeling good enough can contribute to stress and depression, its a misnomer for anyone to think they can earn their way to heaven, and its unreasonable to influence people into believing that anything that puts a smile on you face is a sin. Jesus wasn't that uptight, he went to a wedding party and made the wine, ate with sinners, and never complained about what someone was wearing, I doubt the Workers would approve of that? |
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Post by fixit on Oct 13, 2024 3:32:15 GMT -5
Jesus wasn't that uptight, he went to wedding party and made the wine, ate with sinners, and never complained about what someone was wearing, I doubt the Workers would approve of that? It's something the workers should think about.... How would they treat the New Testament Jesus if he turned up to a convention? |
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. Your not programmable!