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Post by Katie Sue on Aug 10, 2007 21:54:16 GMT -5
So, my cousin just committed suicide. Have to go to his funeral which will be officiated by Workers. He was plagued by depression and although he had been raised in the Truth (as was I), I don't believe he was still actively attending.
What do you think? What's the Truth's beliefs? Ex-ers?
What do you think of this thought:
Will Jesus welcome home a believer who died at her own hands? I believe he will, tenderly and lovingly.
My biblical basis? It is the hope-giving promise of Romans 8:32, that neither life nor death can separate the believer from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
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Post by Bridge on Aug 10, 2007 22:07:32 GMT -5
Yes he will be welcomed as a believer. Did you happen to see "Luther" the movie? I am so sorry for your loss. I wish I knew what to say.
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Post by Bridge on Aug 10, 2007 22:21:07 GMT -5
I know a Katie Sue at Washington. Was still professing when we left.
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Post by usedtobesuicidial on Aug 10, 2007 22:23:51 GMT -5
Do all those who kill themselves go to Hell?
Some people believe that all who commit suicide go immediately to Hell. However, the Bible never says if this is the case. The Bible is silent on this issue. God probably did not address it in black in white for a good reason. If we knew that we would still go to Heaven if we killed ourselves, there would probably be a lot more suicides taking place than there already are. However, if we knew that all who killed themselves were automatically banished to Hell, no matter what their situation, it may be too much for the grief-stricken family and friends to bear. Murder and suicide are not unpardonable sins. The only unforgivable sins are rejecting Christ (Mark 16:16) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
(Mark 3:28-29 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
All other sins can be forgiven. However, anyone contemplating suicide may be in danger of going to Hell, as their relationship with the Lord is not intact at that point. Those who would consider suicide may have a severed relationship with Christ and therefore they would enter the real Hell--which is worse than the hellish feelings they are experiencing at the moment.
It is so important to remember that God judges each of us individually, weighing all the factors of our lives, our beliefs and our motives. Each one of us is so intricate and complex, only God could really judge us in total truth, wisdom, and without favoritism. The most important truth of all, is that each one of us will stand before His throne and give account of our lives. If we lived intimately with this sobering truth, much of the sin in the church and the world, would immediately be stopped.
If you are contemplating suicide and are relying on God's grace to get you to heaven, PLEASE stop for a moment....God's grace never means that we have a free license to sin! Those who willfully sin after knowing God's grace, are in far greater danger than those who know less. Though you may feel that God is far from you right now, He is much nearer than you think. He may even be speaking to you through these words! Please open your ears and hear Him tell you how valuable your life is. You are needed on this earth and the purpose for your life has not yet been fulfilled. God loves you, and so do many people around you! God would not be God if He could not work this situation (no matter how unbearable it may seem) for His glory and for the good in your own life.
Depression is often anger, and a host of other emotions that have turned inward and become frozen. If you are carrying anger, resentment, bitterness, unforgiveness, frustration, jealousy, despair, worthlessness, hopelessness, fearfulness, vengeance and/or self-pity in your heart, you can turn these things over to God and begin to receive your healing right now, in faith. If you don't know how to let them go, confess it to God and ask for His help in releasing it to Him. No one can overcome these things by themselves. We all need the power of God to set us free from sinful and hopeless ways of thinking. That is why the Bible tells us that we must be "transformed, by the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2)." The Holy Spirit is the only One who can help us break free and be healed of these deadly emotions.
Just as ailments in our physical body need to be treated with medicine to be healed, the same is true of our emotions. One powerful way to fight against depression, is to apply and confess God's Word as a healing balm to the places where you have been wounded. For instance, if you have unforgiveness in your heart, begin to confess God's verses for love and forgiveness, even if they don't exactly feel true right at the moment. If you feel worthless, confess the Scriptures of God's great love for you. A rote, mechanical repeating of words may not do much, but if you deliberately take these living words and hold on to them for dear life, you will have the enemy on the run. The devil simply cannot stand against the Word of God spoken in faith. God's Words are like spiritual antibiotics, destroying every germ and unclean thing in their path.
In closing, we would like to pray with you here. We have written a prayer below, and we encourage you to not only read it, but to say it out loud!
PRAYER TO GOD
"Father, in the name of Jesus, I come before You, confessing my need for You, and crying out to you from the bottom of my heart. Lord, You've said that you are near to those whose hearts are breaking and that you give grace to the humble. I humble myself before you now...I cast down any pride or self-justification that I would hide behind, and I present myself to you as I truly am--weak and helpless and despairing of my very life. I know there is no other Rock but You, and I turn to You with all of my heart. Father, please forgive my sin! I open myself up to receive Your cleansing, Your healing, Your forgiveness, and Your faith, hope and love into my being. I receive your love as a river, washing over the dry wasteland of my emotions. I see that in Your river there is life, and that every place your river touches in me is revived. I cast all my cares, my sorrows, my disappointments into that river and I let the current of Your spirit carry them far away. I believe You, when You say that You think good thoughts about me, and that Your plans are to give me a future and a hope. I believe You when You say that You knew who I was even before my mother conceived me--and that You wanted me to be alive on the earth right now. Thank you for giving me life! Thank you for working all things in my life for good! Thank you that I can call on your Name and You will be near me. Thank you for bearing all my weaknesses and diseases on the cross, and healing me, spirit, soul and body."
COMMAND AGAINST SATAN
"Satan, I close every door that I have opened to you and I renounce every activity I have partaken with you. In Jesus name, I submit myself to God. I resist you and command you to flee from me, as it is written in James 4:7! I remind you that you are defeated by the power of the cross--and with the authority given to me by Jesus Christ I command you and force you to leave me right now!"
PRAYER TO GOD
"Father, I receive Your breath of Life into my mortal body now. I lift up my hands to You, to receive it; I fix my hopes on it and turn my life completely over to You. From this day forth I pray that you will give me the grace and wisdom to guard my heart diligently, to obey You and to resist every scheme of the enemy. I commit all I am to You and I have full faith that You are able to do exceedingly, abundantly above all I could ever ask or think. Lord, send me the help I need now. Show me the way.
I thank you for the love that you have lavished upon me and I pray that for the rest of my life, I will show that same love, mercy and forgiveness to all those around me. Amen!"
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Post by Bridge on Aug 10, 2007 22:27:19 GMT -5
I was at a professing funeral not long ago and it sure isn't fun. It was very emotional. There is no celebration of the life that was lived and the joys experienced while they were here. It is easier if you have someone that doesn't profess either go with you.
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Post by Katie Sue on Aug 10, 2007 22:31:38 GMT -5
I'm really dreading this funeral. My nephew committed suicide about 12 years ago (his parents were still professing at the time) and the workers had the funeral. It was awful. They preached that he had left the fold and would therefore perish into everlasting eternal seperation from God.
I'm sure hoping this is more compassionate. I really feel for the professing parents. How difficult to hear that the child you loved and lost being condemned by the workers that you revere (sp?).
I'm going to go with an open mind and hope that there will be more compassion shown to our family.
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Post by Katie Sue on Aug 10, 2007 22:36:26 GMT -5
usedtobesuicidial
Thank you so much for your words and your prayers. I'm going to print them and take them with me to read during the service if it gets to depressing.
Wonderful words of wisdom. Bless you!
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Post by Katie Sue on Aug 10, 2007 22:43:30 GMT -5
We could go off on a total other thread about suicide and faith and depression and despair.
I attempted suicide in April (must be a family thing) - and it was the most profound experience of my life. The only word I can use is profound - intense, all encompassing, difficult to fathom. At the end moment, I was completely devoid of emotion. Not sad, not angry, nothing. Almost as if I was seperated from myself. No logical thought.
I'm so glad I lived & got the help I needed!
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Post by ithascome on Aug 10, 2007 23:23:36 GMT -5
Thanks for saying this Nathan. My wife's father committed suicide after a painful fight with cancer. He left a note that said that he could not deal with the pain any longer. In trying to help my wife I pretty much told he the same as you said in the above.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 11, 2007 0:39:13 GMT -5
KS, thank you for this thread. I lost my brother to suicide 7 years ago; he wasn't going to meetings at the time, but had wanted to start back. My parents received the news while they were at convention. I guess they at least got the support they needed at that time there. I'm sorry for your loss and for how you were feeling in April. Though I've never contemplated suicide, I have dealt with, and am dealing with, depression, so I know *a little bit* of how you feel. (((((Katie Sue)))))) hugs to you and thinking of you at this time. Michelle
and ps...thank you for all the great posts in this thread. They do give one hope and reminder that God will judge our hearts.....
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 11, 2007 4:02:40 GMT -5
There was a time when I I thought of killing myself to end it all of my suffering, pains, sorrow, saddness in my life. But Thanks be to God for not granting my request because I would have missed so much of God's blessing for all of these wonderful years which I have enjoyed being in the work and having a wonderful family.
Dear Nathan, this is very encouraging.
I often feel God wants me to suffer. That he has cursed me from my birth, and caused the ten plagues of the soul to fall upon me. There are times, even now, when I do not love God.
It takes me back to a time when life was so bad, and I wanted so much to kill myself and destroy the life I had. I used to feel trapped, however. One one side was an unbearable existence, on the other side a hell. Is it any wonder I used to hate God?
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Post by Blessed Assurance on Aug 11, 2007 8:50:03 GMT -5
This makes me think of that Hymn..."Blessed Assurance--Jesus is mine....oh what a foretaste of Glory Devine. Heir(me)(you)(cousins)of salvation..purchased of God--Born of His spirit washed in His blood."
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Post by IllinoisGal on Aug 11, 2007 10:15:14 GMT -5
This is only my OPINION as I dont have scripture to back it up. I feel that if a person were in the middle of there suicide and for whatever reason they didnt die immediately and snapped back to reality they could be saved if they repented.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 11, 2007 12:01:58 GMT -5
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 11, 2007 12:15:30 GMT -5
Im glad that we dont know the heart of man, that only God does. We cant judge another persons life or the reasons they take action this way. I do know the devastation suicide causes family that are left. It never ends, goes on for years. Sadly suicide rates are increasing. Often there has been no warning. It is a heartbreaking tragic experience. My heart goes out to the families of the victim. Because they are a victim. Gloryintruth God does not want you or anyone to suffer. Have you been spiritually abused??
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Post by Guest on Aug 11, 2007 12:49:09 GMT -5
Im glad that we dont know the heart of man, that only God does. We cant judge another persons life or the reasons they take action this way. I do know the devastation suicide causes family that are left. It never ends, goes on for years. Sadly suicide rates are increasing. Often there has been no warning. It is a heartbreaking tragic experience. My heart goes out to the families of the victim. Because they are a victim. Gloryintruth God does not want you or anyone to suffer. Have you been spiritually abused?? I have enjoyed reading this thread. Unfortunately the bible neither says nor implies much good about taking ones own life. Thus it probably is that we have the laws here in the USA as we do, and put people like Jack Kevorkian in jail for helping people end their lives. Imo the poster's here have a much more generous spirit about it.
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Post by Guest on Aug 11, 2007 13:02:50 GMT -5
I enjoyed watching - if that would be the right phrase - the pope's death. To me he was an inspiring example of dying with all it's natural difficulties and progressive bodily failures. Letting nature take its course, with a sense of peace and heavenly comfort.
I know of a profesing lady who was dying because of a cancer. She had all the paliative care needed to manage the pain. But toward the end, she asked to be taken off the medication so that her mind could clear. The opiate nature of such care was robbing her of the sense of her cognative peace with God, and the fellowship and care of those gathered around her.
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Post by SHOCKING on Aug 11, 2007 18:31:55 GMT -5
Katie Sue, if what you say about workers standing in judgement over the dead body of a loved-one...or anyone for that matter as to the nature of their death...I think that is cruel & completely un-called for. I have never been to the funeral of a 2x2 suicide victim, but I am aware of the fact that professing folks, or ex-professing folks do sometimes die at their own hands. Cases in point: an elderly professing man who's professing wife allegedly did him a grievous wrong, also a young Englishman who was mentally ill who also took his life. The workers should not condemn the person who lies in the casket nearby...they can talk around the issue, not adress the issue, and if they can't say anything of comfort...they should keep quiet. Also, it might be advisable not to have a 2x2 church funeral at all. Maybe just visitation.
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Post by SHOCKING on Aug 11, 2007 18:33:51 GMT -5
Katie Sue, if what you say about workers standing in judgement over the dead body of a loved-one...or anyone for that matter as to the nature of their death...I think that is cruel & completely un-called for. I have never been to the funeral of a 2x2 suicide victim, but I am aware of the fact that professing folks, or ex-professing folks do sometimes die at their own hands. Cases in point: an elderly professing man who's professing wife allegedly did him a grievous wrong, also a young Englishman who was mentally ill who also took his life. The workers should not condemn the person who lies in the casket nearby...they can talk around the issue, not adress the issue, and if they can't say anything of comfort...they should keep quiet. Also, it might be advisable not to have a 2x2 church funeral at all. Maybe just visitation.
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Post by grandma on Aug 22, 2007 22:20:38 GMT -5
Katie Sue,
I just read your posts and want to say how sorry I am about this latest tragedy. I'm wondering....what did the workers have to say at the funeral?
Grandma
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Aug 23, 2007 12:11:51 GMT -5
My salvation is by Grace...unmerited favor..nothing I could've done to gain it, nothing I can do to lose it . . . for by Grace I am saved, not of works lest I should boast. .. it's not about me at all!! .. Simply for God's glory.. .something I don't truely grasp or understand yet.. I maybe get glimpses thru the glass darkly now and then.. . .. .. if he was a believer his position in Heaven is secure..mental illness, chemical imbalances, bipolar, car accidents, heart attacks, falling off a log. ..because we're believers doesn't mean we're immune to any of these maladies and doesn't mean we can't suffer the effects of them..was it God's plan for his life..no!. .were there things that God had for him yet to do..most likely. ..
.. .just 46 days ago one of my best friends, Jody, took his own life... a man that I've known almost my entire life, classmates from kindergarten on thru high school, fellow firefighter, snowmobiler, motorcyclist, a guy that has been my friend forever it seems. . now just gone.. looking at him in his casket I just wanted to punch him..I'm was and still am very angry at him .. ..I've been asking myself the question, what do I do with that.. the answer came to me.. . I have to forgive him..what he did to all of us left behind is so wrong and I'm having a very difficult time doing so..I still wanna punch him. .a conversation we had several weeks before his second, and successful, attempt to take his own life haunts me. . him saying he just wanted it to be over, he couldn't take the pain. . he just wanted to chek out . .I said something about that's not the answer, you don't want to stand before God like that..him saying. .yea..I know...I'd go to hell .... .. did he have a serious thought of what that will be like??. ... I don't think he was a believer, though he had been going to a church recently- May the Lord take my doubt and fear on this and prove me wrong!!!- and it weighs on me I didn't witness more to him and speak to him of what eternity is ..on either side of the void!. . .. . ok..don't know if I stayed on track with this thread here but just needed to add this ..
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Post by Hope For All on Aug 23, 2007 13:35:29 GMT -5
FWIW I was at a F&W funeral a while back where the person had died under "questionable" circumstances. i.e. perscription drug overdose.
It was one of the most uplifting and encouraging funerals I have ever been at.
I was also at another suicide funeral of a man who once "professed". The funeral was taken by the overseer in our area. If there was ever a time the workers could have preached hell fire it would have been at that funeral. BUT nothing but comfort was given.
So with all due respect I have a hard time believeing a worker would ever preach hell fire and condemnation at the funeral of someone who no longer professed-regardless of the circumstances.
HFA
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 23, 2007 13:41:23 GMT -5
Johnny,
Man I feel for you about your friends death. I had one of my closest friends die this year. He died in his sleep, but was still dead.... In the past I had been to visit him in the hospital after a suicide attempt, and I know how it feels to look at a friend and not know what or how to say words of encouragement to someone who is so full of despair that they would rather just end it all.
Dale was 5 days older than me, and his birthday would have been August 15th. I thought about him on his birthday a lot.... I still have his number in my cell phone, and when I come across it I wish I could call him and tell him how much I miss him and our friendship.
I spoke at length at his funeral. It wasn't until his death that I realized just how much of an impact he had on my life through the years. True friends are like that though.
In high school I was a sport star (for lack of a better way to say it..) in basketball and track. Dale was the manager for both of those sports, and was the guy who kept stats, handed out towels, and all the unglamorous stuff. While I 'basked' in my accomplishments, he was there making sure that I could do the things I did.
After getting out of the army, he offered me a job working for him until I found a 'real' job. I worked for him for a few years, and then got my job with the post office. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have moved to Montana, wouldn't have the job I have had for 21 years now, wouldn't have met the woman I am now married to, and so on.
It's so hard to lose a friend. There is such a finality to it. One knows that just because of time, there is no way to have that kind of friendship again......
One of the things I shared at his funeral was the fact that since I was now living a Christian life, that upon being informed of his passing, rather than blaming God for taking him, I was able to hit my knees and thank Him for giving me such a true friendship for all those years.
Lots of tears right now....
Scott
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 23, 2007 13:43:27 GMT -5
God is merciful and kind and loving.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 23, 2007 13:47:03 GMT -5
God understands the heart and mind of any individual who is plagued with mental illness. I am sure his heart pains for them and I truly believe he would be merciful in his judgement.
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Post by Katie Sue on Aug 23, 2007 18:48:03 GMT -5
I didn't make it to my cousin's funeral - so I can't attest to what was said. I hope it went well.
I know that even "The Truth" has changed in the last 10 -15 years since the last suicide funeral I was at. My experience has been that the workers are getting more compassionate to us unprofessing kin. I left "the truth" 36 years ago (Wow, time flies!) - and at that time, if I'd walk into my parents' home and they were visiting, they frequently would not even acknowledge that I was there.
At my parents' funerals in 2002 they were generally much more congenial. At least most of them. There are still some rude ones - but that's life.
To Johnny - I understand your frustration at your friend committing suicide. But please forgive him. It's such a horrible place to be.
I tried to committ suicide in April. It was an experience that I'll never forget - nor be able to explain. I felt so defeated. So devoid of hope. I honestly felt emotionless. No clear thought. Please don't be angry at him. There is NOTHING personal about it - at least not for me. Not trying to get back at anyone. Just hopeless.
I'm so very glad I survived. I don't think I'll ever try it again. It was a turning point for me. I was hospitalized for a week, then got counseling - and most importantly of all - stopped drinking!
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Post by IllinoisGal on Aug 23, 2007 21:31:24 GMT -5
in my opinion, there's one way to find out. Edited by me due to me realizing it was a rather NOT so funny thing.....
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 23, 2007 23:57:13 GMT -5
Wow. again... SO not funny, Randy. I mean, seriously. By the way, my brother who committed suicide? His name was Randy, coincidentally. Still funny? M.
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