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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 8:18:51 GMT -5
I remember the outrage at the lies immigrants were told in Texas to trick them into agreeing to be transported north. When the group was abandoned on Martha's Vineyard, they were aghast to discover they were on an island. Thank goodness for the generosity of local residents and the extended Greater Boston community. From the NYT: The Story Behind DeSantis’s Migrant Flights to Martha’s VineyardAsylum seekers in Texas were recruited for the flights by a woman who appeared to be a former Army counterintelligence agent. “We were tricked,” one migrant said.And here's a one-year look-back aired last year on Boston's WGBH (text available): A journey continues: migrants reflect one year after being flown to Martha's VineyardHow the broadcast begins: " A year ago, 49 migrants arrived unexpectedly on Martha’s Vineyard, a wealthy island community off the Massachusetts coast. Immigration advocates called it a cruel political stunt, but it has surprisingly created a legal advantage that some of the migrants might be able to use to remain in the United States..."Excerpted photos with captions showing one of the migrants sent under false pretenses to Martha's Vineyard:  Carlos Luzardo sits on the front steps of his home in the Boston suburbs to drink freshly-prepared coffee, on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2023. Luzardo is one of the 49 migrants that were flown to Martha’s Vineyard in 2022.  Carlos Luzardo holds a keepsake rock from Martha’s Vineyard in his home in a Boston suburb on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2023. Luzardo is one of the 49 migrants that were flown to Martha’s Vineyard, a wealthy island community off the coast of Massachusetts, in 2022. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 16:38:02 GMT -5
I had a student whose parents had legally immigrated from Mexico to the US. Her mom lived in El Paso TX. Her whole family were yuuuge Trump supporters, and she'd tell anyone who asked. The reason is the exact same reason that conservatives have been trying and trying to push for border security in the face of Biden's (non)-policies: Drugs and gang violence. I have yet to hear a single leftist call HER a racist, being 100% Mexican descent. People throw a fit every time any of the border states try to protect themselves. "Where is the compassion??" Ironically, they throw an even bigger fit when busloads of illegal immigrants arrive in their cities. One bus load of immigrants caused the residents of Martha's Vinyard to hop into their $10,000 golf carts, zoom past the border walls that protect their homes, and stress eat $20,000 of caviar.
Hypocrites. Full of words of compassion, empathy and inclusion but not able to be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Jesus knows the type. I no longer waste my time citing sources for you. It wouldn't matter. Never does, so I don't bother. You'll just tell me to "F- myself" again. They were actually flown there, and I don't have sources for the exact value of the golf carts nor caviar. Not to worry though - even with a plethora of open hotel spaces that easily would've accommodated the 50 migrants, they had those folks gone within a couple days. I imagine they were kind to them while they were there - the people living at Martha's Vinyard aren't bad people - just insanely rich. Rich enough to accommodate 50 migrants for years. But in typical fashion, they made sure that the "problem" was "taken care of" ASAP. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 16:39:34 GMT -5
I remember the outrage at the lies immigrants were told in Texas to trick them into agreeing to be transported north. When the group was abandoned on Martha's Vineyard, they were aghast to discover they were on an island. Thank goodness for the generosity of local residents and the extended Greater Boston community. From the NYT: The Story Behind DeSantis’s Migrant Flights to Martha’s VineyardAsylum seekers in Texas were recruited for the flights by a woman who appeared to be a former Army counterintelligence agent. “We were tricked,” one migrant said.And here's a one-year look-back aired last year on Boston's WGBH (text available): A journey continues: migrants reflect one year after being flown to Martha's VineyardHow the broadcast begins: " A year ago, 49 migrants arrived unexpectedly on Martha’s Vineyard, a wealthy island community off the Massachusetts coast. Immigration advocates called it a cruel political stunt, but it has surprisingly created a legal advantage that some of the migrants might be able to use to remain in the United States..."Excerpted photos with captions showing one of the migrants sent under false pretenses to Martha's Vineyard: Carlos Luzardo sits on the front steps of his home in the Boston suburbs to drink freshly-prepared coffee, on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2023. Luzardo is one of the 49 migrants that were flown to Martha’s Vineyard in 2022. Carlos Luzardo holds a keepsake rock from Martha’s Vineyard in his home in a Boston suburb on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2023. Luzardo is one of the 49 migrants that were flown to Martha’s Vineyard, a wealthy island community off the coast of Massachusetts, in 2022. The rich people in Martha's Vinyard shipped them off to Boston double speed! 😂 |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 16:51:37 GMT -5
The rich people in Martha's Vinyard shipped them off to Boston double speed! 😂 Housing is limited, and work on the island is highly seasonal; naturally, there is much more opportunity on the mainland. Even so, three of the migrants still live on the Martha's Vineyard. Most returned to the island for a happy reunion this past year. Makes sense, unless you don't want it to. Troll on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 17:24:27 GMT -5
The rich people in Martha's Vinyard shipped them off to Boston double speed! 😂 Housing is limited, and work on the island is highly seasonal; naturally, there is much more opportunity on the mainland. Even so, three of the migrants still live on the Martha's Vineyard. Most returned to the island for a happy reunion this past year. Makes sense, unless you don't want it to. Troll on. What a bummer - to be sent to the most prosperous neighborhood in the US and there's just no jobs! Too bad. |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 17:31:06 GMT -5
Source, please, for your Martha's Vineyard comments. I no longer waste my time citing sources for you. It wouldn't matter. Never does, so I don't bother. You'll just tell me to "F- myself" again. They were actually flown there, and I don't have sources for the exact value of the golf carts nor caviar. Not to worry though - even with a plethora of open hotel spaces that easily would've accommodated the 50 migrants, they had those folks gone within a couple days. I imagine they were kind to them while they were there - the people living at Martha's Vinyard aren't bad people - just insanely rich. Rich enough to accommodate 50 migrants for years. But in typical fashion, they made sure that the "problem" was "taken care of" ASAP. Yeah, I know they were flown there. It was my first clue that you were not dealing in facts. Believe it or not, the migrants were looking to work and build lives for themselves, not freeload off of rich people. Fortunately, because of DeSantis' cute, but criminal stunt, these migrants have been able to obtain special legal status and may even end up on a relatively short track to citizenship. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 17:54:11 GMT -5
I no longer waste my time citing sources for you. It wouldn't matter. Never does, so I don't bother. You'll just tell me to "F- myself" again. They were actually flown there, and I don't have sources for the exact value of the golf carts nor caviar. Not to worry though - even with a plethora of open hotel spaces that easily would've accommodated the 50 migrants, they had those folks gone within a couple days. I imagine they were kind to them while they were there - the people living at Martha's Vinyard aren't bad people - just insanely rich. Rich enough to accommodate 50 migrants for years. But in typical fashion, they made sure that the "problem" was "taken care of" ASAP. Yeah, I know they were flown there. It was my first clue that you were not dealing in facts. Believe it or not, the migrants were looking to work and build lives for themselves, not freeload off of rich people. Fortunately, because of DeSantis' cute, but criminal stunt, these migrants have been able to obtain special legal status and may even end up on a relatively short track to citizenship. If you are going to nitpick "flying" vs. "taking a bus", it says more about you than me. And, if they've been verified not to be drug runners or human traffickers, then welcome! For the migrants, I'm glad for them - sincerely. Who wouldn't want a better life for themselves? My comment was about the liberals who want an "open border" policy, but the migrants they claim to be advocating for aren't welcome in their neighborhoods. Thus, hypocrisy. But you know that. |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 18:18:04 GMT -5
Housing is limited, and work on the island is highly seasonal; naturally, there is much more opportunity on the mainland. Even so, three of the migrants still live on the Martha's Vineyard. Most returned to the island for a happy reunion this past year. Makes sense, unless you don't want it to. Troll on. What a bummer - to be sent to the most prosperous neighborhood in the US and there's just no jobs! Too bad. I'm pretty sure DeSantis was not aiming for a convenient spot for 49 migrants to land. But on a happy note, all of the migrants have been able to apply for asylum in the US and receive U Visas (thanks to DeSantis' stunt). They will also get to file their claims not in Texas where they crossed the border, and where there are large numbers of applicants, but in Massachusetts, a reasonably immigrant-friendly jurisdiction with a lot of legal and political support. (from one of the articles linked in a previous post) |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 18:37:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I know they were flown there. It was my first clue that you were not dealing in facts. Believe it or not, the migrants were looking to work and build lives for themselves, not freeload off of rich people. Fortunately, because of DeSantis' cute, but criminal stunt, these migrants have been able to obtain special legal status and may even end up on a relatively short track to citizenship. If you are going to nitpick "flying" vs. "taking a bus", it says more about you than me. And, if they've been verified not to be drug runners or human traffickers, then welcome! For the migrants, I'm glad for them - sincerely. Who wouldn't want a better life for themselves? My comment was about the liberals who want an "open border" policy, but the migrants they claim to be advocating for aren't welcome in their neighborhoods. Thus, hypocrisy. But you know that. I do not know anyone who thinks the US border should be completely open. "Open Border" is a misleading Right Wing phrase used to scare and anger people like you. Migrants and refugees don't just come to the Southern border. The northeastern US city where I live welcomes and helps to settle large groups of refugees, especially from parts of Africa and Eastern Europe. A good friend of mine spends hours per week teaching English as a Second Language for such refugees. I'm guessing you did not know that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 20:20:26 GMT -5
What a bummer - to be sent to the most prosperous neighborhood in the US and there's just no jobs! Too bad. I'm pretty sure DeSantis was not aiming for a convenient spot for 49 migrants to land. But on a happy note, all of the migrants have been able to apply for asylum in the US and receive U Visas (thanks to DeSantis' stunt). They will also get to file their claims not in Texas where they crossed the border, and where there are large numbers of applicants, but in Massachusetts, a reasonably immigrant-friendly jurisdiction with a lot of legal and political support. (from one of the articles linked in a previous post) So you're saying DeSantis and the other states should continue? Legitimately I'm happy for the migrants. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 20:30:03 GMT -5
If you are going to nitpick "flying" vs. "taking a bus", it says more about you than me. And, if they've been verified not to be drug runners or human traffickers, then welcome! For the migrants, I'm glad for them - sincerely. Who wouldn't want a better life for themselves? My comment was about the liberals who want an "open border" policy, but the migrants they claim to be advocating for aren't welcome in their neighborhoods. Thus, hypocrisy. But you know that. I do not know anyone who thinks the US border should be completely open. "Open Border" is a misleading Right Wing phrase used to scare and anger people like you. Migrants and refugees don't just come to the Southern border. The northeastern US city where I live welcomes and helps to settle large groups of refugees, especially from parts of Africa and Eastern Europe. A good friend of mine spends hours per week teaching English as a Second Language for such refugees. I'm guessing you did not know that. Do the refugees enter legally? If so, great! African immigrants are some of my favorite folks. I learned late last year that an immigrant from Ghana who I'd worked with tutoring and written a recommendation letter for was just accepted into dental school. She made a special trip to my work to tell me 😊 The continual effort to conflate the legitimate humanitarian crisis on the southern border with manageable immigration at other ports and borders is a common tactic. I had no idea that you could enter the US by another means than the southern border. 🙄 Thank goodness you're here to help me. I'm curious - what do you think of the border wall? Is it still a racist symbol of MAGA fascists..... now that Biden is waiving federal regulations to allow its construction? apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2Or are the sections of the wall Trump built the "racist" sections, and the sections Biden is building the "smart immigration policy" sections? 🤣😂🤣 |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 20:38:44 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure DeSantis was not aiming for a convenient spot for 49 migrants to land. But on a happy note, all of the migrants have been able to apply for asylum in the US and receive U Visas (thanks to DeSantis' stunt). They will also get to file their claims not in Texas where they crossed the border, and where there are large numbers of applicants, but in Massachusetts, a reasonably immigrant-friendly jurisdiction with a lot of legal and political support. (from one of the articles linked in a previous post) So you're saying DeSantis and the other states should continue? Legitimately I'm happy for the migrants. There may be legal repurcussions for people who misled the migrants about the trip north. |
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Post by matisse on Jan 28, 2024 20:48:08 GMT -5
I do not know anyone who thinks the US border should be completely open. "Open Border" is a misleading Right Wing phrase used to scare and anger people like you. Migrants and refugees don't just come to the Southern border. The northeastern US city where I live welcomes and helps to settle large groups of refugees, especially from parts of Africa and Eastern Europe. A good friend of mine spends hours per week teaching English as a Second Language for such refugees. I'm guessing you did not know that. Do the refugees enter legally? If so, great! African immigrants are some of my favorite folks. I learned late last year that an immigrant from Ghana who I'd worked with tutoring and written a recommendation letter for was just accepted into dental school. She made a special trip to my work to tell me 😊 The continual effort to conflate the legitimate humanitarian crisis on the southern border with manageable immigration at other ports and borders is a common tactic. I had no idea that you could enter the US by another means than the southern border. 🙄 Thank goodness you're here to help me. I'm curious - what do you think of the border wall? Is it still a racist symbol of MAGA fascists..... now that Biden is waiving federal regulations to allow its construction? apnews.com/article/border-wall-biden-immigration-texas-rio-grande-147d7ab497e6991e9ea929242f21ceb2Or are the sections of the wall Trump built the "racist" sections, and the sections Biden is building the "smart immigration policy" sections? 🤣😂🤣 The wall design Trump chose was easily cut through using a reciprocating saw. Not a great use of tax dollars, imo, no matter who puts it in place. There are ways of talking about people fleeing terrible situations and seeking asylum without dehumanizing them. Trump does not do that. You are a lot like wally, except with a somewhat better vocabulary. Over and out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2024 21:34:39 GMT -5
So you're saying DeSantis and the other states should continue? Legitimately I'm happy for the migrants. There may be legal repurcussions for people who misled the migrants about the trip north. There might, but the end justifies the means, for the migrants that is. If it was me, I'd want to make the trip too. I don't fault them. And I'll agree that Trump has used the issue to play to his ultra right base. Are there a decent percentage of Trump supporters who are bigots? Absolutely. I despise them as well. But the issue still remains. So I take it also that your criticism of the Trump part of the wall is that it wasn't strong enough? That's an interesting take - sounds a bit "ultra-MAGA" to me, but I guess when Biden reinstates and expands Trumps immigration policies (like www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/05/biden-expands-trump-era-border-restrictions-once-again) and the border wall, one has to find ever more creative ways to criticize him while excusing Biden! 😉😄 |
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2024 16:14:59 GMT -5
If you are going to nitpick "flying" vs. "taking a bus", it says more about you than me. And, if they've been verified not to be drug runners or human traffickers, then welcome! For the migrants, I'm glad for them - sincerely. Who wouldn't want a better life for themselves? My comment was about the liberals who want an "open border" policy, but the migrants they claim to be advocating for aren't welcome in their neighborhoods. Thus, hypocrisy. But you know that. I do not know anyone who thinks the US border should be completely open. "Open Border" is a misleading Right Wing phrase used to scare and anger people like you. Migrants and refugees don't just come to the Southern border. The northeastern US city where I live welcomes and helps to settle large groups of refugees, especially from parts of Africa and Eastern Europe. A good friend of mine spends hours per week teaching English as a Second Language for such refugees. I'm guessing you did not know that. Canada also gets their fair share of immigrants. Some of those from Mexico cross right through the US and immigrate to Canada. I taught English as a Second Language in Victoria, BC when I lived there. Took a course in it and volunteered to teach. I loved doing that at the time. I had a class of kids from all over the world. It wasn't just teaching them English it was getting them and me to understand their various languages at a minimal level. I learned the basics in quite a few languages doing that. Kids learn so quick and are so much fun. I would never want to learn English though. Teaching them the idioms alone is a challenge. Our words can mean such different things depending on the context they are used in. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2024 22:31:46 GMT -5
www.cnn.com/2024/01/28/politics/pelosi-criticism-palestinian-gaza-protests-russia/index.htmlIf people will believe that Trump supporters are connected to Russia and need investigating... and they'll believe anyone criticizing the war in Ukraine is an agent of Putin..... just how stupid are people? Let's see! Now, if you're advocating for a ceasefire in Gaza, you're.... doing the bidding of Putin! 🤣😂🤣😂. So everyone here who has been critical of Israel's response, or who wants a ceasefire in Gaza, congratulations! You're a Russian sympathizing enemy of freedom. And Pelosi would like to see you investigated by... who else? The FBI! They're good at investigating "super secret Russian agents" masquerading as normal people in MAGA hats. Now it's your turn. And if you think it sounds stupid, you're right. But for her, "Russia Russia Russia" is the only thing that she can scare people into compliance with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2024 22:50:50 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 0:02:11 GMT -5
I had a student whose parents had legally immigrated from Mexico to the US. Her mom lived in El Paso TX. Her whole family were yuuuge Trump supporters, and she'd tell anyone who asked. The reason is the exact same reason that conservatives have been trying and trying to push for border security in the face of Biden's (non)-policies: Drugs and gang violence. I have yet to hear a single leftist call HER a racist, being 100% Mexican descent. People throw a fit every time any of the border states try to protect themselves. "Where is the compassion??" Ironically, they throw an even bigger fit when busloads of illegal immigrants arrive in their cities. One bus load of immigrants caused the residents of Martha's Vinyard to hop into their $10,000 golf carts, zoom past the border walls that protect their homes, and stress eat $20,000 of caviar. Hypocrites. Full of words of compassion, empathy and inclusion but not able to be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Jesus knows the type. Undoubtedly the parents came here before "legal" immigration became such the farcical nightmare it is now. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 0:16:51 GMT -5
There may be legal repurcussions for people who misled the migrants about the trip north. There might, but the end justifies the means, for the migrants that is. If it was me, I'd want to make the trip too. I don't fault them. And I'll agree that Trump has used the issue to play to his ultra right base. Are there a decent percentage of Trump supporters who are bigots? Absolutely. I despise them as well. But the issue still remains. So I take it also that your criticism of the Trump part of the wall is that it wasn't strong enough? That's an interesting take - sounds a bit "ultra-MAGA" to me, but I guess when Biden reinstates and expands Trumps immigration policies (like www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/05/biden-expands-trump-era-border-restrictions-once-again) and the border wall, one has to find ever more creative ways to criticize him while excusing Biden! 😉😄 Leave it to you and Wally to turn someone's words to prove some deviant or hypocritical intention. It takes practice. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 0:27:19 GMT -5
I do not know anyone who thinks the US border should be completely open. "Open Border" is a misleading Right Wing phrase used to scare and anger people like you. Migrants and refugees don't just come to the Southern border. The northeastern US city where I live welcomes and helps to settle large groups of refugees, especially from parts of Africa and Eastern Europe. A good friend of mine spends hours per week teaching English as a Second Language for such refugees. I'm guessing you did not know that. Canada also gets their fair share of immigrants. Some of those from Mexico cross right through the US and immigrate to Canada. I taught English as a Second Language in Victoria, BC when I lived there. Took a course in it and volunteered to teach. I loved doing that at the time. I had a class of kids from all over the world. It wasn't just teaching them English it was getting them and me to understand their various languages at a minimal level. I learned the basics in quite a few languages doing that. Kids learn so quick and are so much fun. I would never want to learn English though. Teaching them the idioms alone is a challenge. Our words can mean such different things depending on the context they are used in. When I was teaching ESL students I lost all patience with rednecks who would come through the school voicing the typical platitudes disparaging the non-English speaking immigrants. I even took on the police who were harassing them in the school yard. I so happened to be their high school government teacher, and more than a couple of people they encountered in courts were surprised (I'll call it that) by what my students could do the defend themselves in court. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 30, 2024 0:28:44 GMT -5
I had a student whose parents had legally immigrated from Mexico to the US. Her mom lived in El Paso TX. Her whole family were yuuuge Trump supporters, and she'd tell anyone who asked. The reason is the exact same reason that conservatives have been trying and trying to push for border security in the face of Biden's (non)-policies: Drugs and gang violence. I have yet to hear a single leftist call HER a racist, being 100% Mexican descent. People throw a fit every time any of the border states try to protect themselves. "Where is the compassion??" Ironically, they throw an even bigger fit when busloads of illegal immigrants arrive in their cities. One bus load of immigrants caused the residents of Martha's Vinyard to hop into their $10,000 golf carts, zoom past the border walls that protect their homes, and stress eat $20,000 of caviar. Hypocrites. Full of words of compassion, empathy and inclusion but not able to be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Jesus knows the type. Undoubtedly the parents came here before "legal" immigration became such the farcical nightmare it is now. Trump and everyone else, except the native people are the result of immigrants. Many before adequate screening was in place. Trump is married to his handler who worked here illegally for some time. Now waiting for the comments about the native people being immigrants. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2024 1:09:22 GMT -5
I had a student whose parents had legally immigrated from Mexico to the US. Her mom lived in El Paso TX. Her whole family were yuuuge Trump supporters, and she'd tell anyone who asked. The reason is the exact same reason that conservatives have been trying and trying to push for border security in the face of Biden's (non)-policies: Drugs and gang violence. I have yet to hear a single leftist call HER a racist, being 100% Mexican descent. People throw a fit every time any of the border states try to protect themselves. "Where is the compassion??" Ironically, they throw an even bigger fit when busloads of illegal immigrants arrive in their cities. One bus load of immigrants caused the residents of Martha's Vinyard to hop into their $10,000 golf carts, zoom past the border walls that protect their homes, and stress eat $20,000 of caviar. Hypocrites. Full of words of compassion, empathy and inclusion but not able to be bothered to lift a finger to help themselves. Jesus knows the type. Undoubtedly the parents came here before "legal" immigration became such the farcical nightmare it is now. I'm guessing so. Given her age I'd guess mid 80s maybe early 90s. Really, illegal immigration used to not be such a big deal. My dad worked with illegal immigrants when he was young - they just wanted to come do seasonal work, and there was no real problem. He said they'd get a call from the plant down the road that ICE was coming and the Mexicans would just hide. ICE would come, watch the few American teens still remaining frantically try to keep up with the line (knowing full well what was up) and then leave. When the seasonal work was over, they would actually call ICE who would pick the migrants up and "deport" them back to Mexico. I see no harm with that. If do the same for my family if I was in their place. The real issues with the surge of undocumented immigrants evading border patrol goes back to (IMO) the rise and fall of organized crime in the major US cities. When the Mafia was being dismantled in the 70s and 80s, gangs like the Crips and Bloods (who had typically been contained to small areas like Harlem) expanded their reach, aided by Jamaican and Haitian crime organizations. As the African American gangs' influence was waning with the "war on drugs", Mexican, Central and South American Cartels saw the opportunity to sell drugs and humans into the states. And since it's easier to find a stationary drug lab than a mobile dealer, supply became predominantly out of country manufactured. So now there are incentives given for Cartels to sell product to Mexican gangs in the US cities. That's what the people who immigrated legally were trying to escape. It's really unfortunate that our organized crime in the US isn't more US based. Maybe cocaine needs a "buy American" campaign! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2024 1:18:22 GMT -5
There might, but the end justifies the means, for the migrants that is. If it was me, I'd want to make the trip too. I don't fault them. And I'll agree that Trump has used the issue to play to his ultra right base. Are there a decent percentage of Trump supporters who are bigots? Absolutely. I despise them as well. But the issue still remains. So I take it also that your criticism of the Trump part of the wall is that it wasn't strong enough? That's an interesting take - sounds a bit "ultra-MAGA" to me, but I guess when Biden reinstates and expands Trumps immigration policies (like www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/05/biden-expands-trump-era-border-restrictions-once-again) and the border wall, one has to find ever more creative ways to criticize him while excusing Biden! 😉😄 Leave it to you and Wally to turn someone's words to prove some deviant or hypocritical intention. It takes practice. And here you might have thought I'd learned nothing on TMB over the years! 😄 You've got to admit, it is kind of funny though how quick it went from "Wall is Bad!" to "Wall wasn't strong enough" with the change of a president. It's almost like there's a brain setting that flips from "Trump doing it...BAD!!" to "Biden doing it....ATTA BOY!!" which overrides the actual thing being done. Works for the wall... racist or rude comments....garbled words.....hoarding classified documents...... foreign business entanglements... It's a decoder of sorts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2024 1:22:42 GMT -5
Canada also gets their fair share of immigrants. Some of those from Mexico cross right through the US and immigrate to Canada. I taught English as a Second Language in Victoria, BC when I lived there. Took a course in it and volunteered to teach. I loved doing that at the time. I had a class of kids from all over the world. It wasn't just teaching them English it was getting them and me to understand their various languages at a minimal level. I learned the basics in quite a few languages doing that. Kids learn so quick and are so much fun. I would never want to learn English though. Teaching them the idioms alone is a challenge. Our words can mean such different things depending on the context they are used in. When I was teaching ESL students I lost all patience with rednecks who would come through the school voicing the typical platitudes disparaging the non-English speaking immigrants. I even took on the police who were harassing them in the school yard. I so happened to be their high school government teacher, and more than a couple of people they encountered in courts were surprised (I'll call it that) by what my students could do the defend themselves in court. I haven't encountered that flavor of ignorance as often as it seems you have, but that could be a consequence of geography. A different flavor of ignorant bigoted redneck I have more experience with - the kind which thinks a confederate flag is a perfectly reasonable symbol of American ideals. Same $@^*, different flavor. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 1:24:32 GMT -5
Undoubtedly the parents came here before "legal" immigration became such the farcical nightmare it is now. I'm guessing so. Given her age I'd guess mid 80s maybe early 90s. Really, illegal immigration used to not be such a big deal. My dad worked with illegal immigrants when he was young - they just wanted to come do seasonal work, and there was no real problem. He said they'd get a call from the plant down the road that ICE was coming and the Mexicans would just hide. ICE would come, watch the few American teens still remaining frantically try to keep up with the line (knowing full well what was up) and then leave. When the seasonal work was over, they would actually call ICE who would pick the migrants up and "deport" them back to Mexico. I see no harm with that. If do the same for my family if I was in their place. The real issues with the surge of undocumented immigrants evading border patrol goes back to (IMO) the rise and fall of organized crime in the major US cities. When the Mafia was being dismantled in the 70s and 80s, gangs like the Crips and Bloods (who had typically been contained to small areas like Harlem) expanded their reach, aided by Jamaican and Haitian crime organizations. As the African American gangs' influence was waning with the "war on drugs", Mexican, Central and South American Cartels saw the opportunity to sell drugs and humans into the states. And since it's easier to find a stationary drug lab than a mobile dealer, supply became predominantly out of country manufactured. So now there are incentives given for Cartels to sell product to Mexican gangs in the US cities. That's what the people who immigrated legally were trying to escape. It's really unfortunate that our organized crime in the US isn't more US based. Maybe cocaine needs a "buy American" campaign! This is all to distract from the one less glamorous but most critical problem of all. There is no infrastructure in place to process legal immigration in any circumstance. Legal immigration from Mexico can last longer than it takes to raise one's child to adulthood -- pi$$ poor promise of an American dream. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 1:26:35 GMT -5
When I was teaching ESL students I lost all patience with rednecks who would come through the school voicing the typical platitudes disparaging the non-English speaking immigrants. I even took on the police who were harassing them in the school yard. I so happened to be their high school government teacher, and more than a couple of people they encountered in courts were surprised (I'll call it that) by what my students could do the defend themselves in court. I haven't encountered that flavor of ignorance as often as it seems you have, but that could be a consequence of geography. A different flavor of ignorant bigoted redneck I have more experience with - the kind which thinks a confederate flag is a perfectly reasonable symbol of American ideals. Same $@^*, different flavor. That's just another symptom of the same ego problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2024 1:29:35 GMT -5
I'm guessing so. Given her age I'd guess mid 80s maybe early 90s. Really, illegal immigration used to not be such a big deal. My dad worked with illegal immigrants when he was young - they just wanted to come do seasonal work, and there was no real problem. He said they'd get a call from the plant down the road that ICE was coming and the Mexicans would just hide. ICE would come, watch the few American teens still remaining frantically try to keep up with the line (knowing full well what was up) and then leave. When the seasonal work was over, they would actually call ICE who would pick the migrants up and "deport" them back to Mexico. I see no harm with that. If do the same for my family if I was in their place. The real issues with the surge of undocumented immigrants evading border patrol goes back to (IMO) the rise and fall of organized crime in the major US cities. When the Mafia was being dismantled in the 70s and 80s, gangs like the Crips and Bloods (who had typically been contained to small areas like Harlem) expanded their reach, aided by Jamaican and Haitian crime organizations. As the African American gangs' influence was waning with the "war on drugs", Mexican, Central and South American Cartels saw the opportunity to sell drugs and humans into the states. And since it's easier to find a stationary drug lab than a mobile dealer, supply became predominantly out of country manufactured. So now there are incentives given for Cartels to sell product to Mexican gangs in the US cities. That's what the people who immigrated legally were trying to escape. It's really unfortunate that our organized crime in the US isn't more US based. Maybe cocaine needs a "buy American" campaign! This is all to distract from the one less glamorous but most critical problem of all. There is no infrastructure in place to process legal immigration in any circumstance. Legal immigration from Mexico can last longer than it takes to raise one's child to adulthood -- pi$$ poor promise of an American dream. I couldn't agree with you more! Honestly, the fact that the issue has existed for so long is in my mind a subtle offshoot of what they might call "systemic racism". I've worked with Mexicans - their work ethic and demeanor consistently made them my favorite folks to do shifts with. But what we've got instead with illegal immigrating is the creation of a group of Second class. None of the benefits of citizenry. And simultaneously we've endangered both them and American citizens. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 30, 2024 1:45:13 GMT -5
This is all to distract from the one less glamorous but most critical problem of all. There is no infrastructure in place to process legal immigration in any circumstance. Legal immigration from Mexico can last longer than it takes to raise one's child to adulthood -- pi$$ poor promise of an American dream. I couldn't agree with you more! Honestly, the fact that the issue has existed for so long is in my mind a subtle offshoot of what they might call "systemic racism". I've worked with Mexicans - their work ethic and demeanor consistently made them my favorite folks to do shifts with. But what we've got instead with illegal immigrating is the creation of a group of Second class. None of the benefits of citizenry. And simultaneously we've endangered both them and American citizens. It's "systemic" for sure, racially and/or class based. Typically legitimate asylum seekers who are admitted to the country (legally or otherwise) does not ever see a courtroom for YEARS, and it can be many more YEARS before they can look for employment. And contrary to popular opinion, such people are getting most of their help from other immigrants than the welfare system. Short of dying from starvation in a public place, asylum seekers can be totally on their own after a six month period. For what it's worth, I was embarrassed to be the blond blue eyed English speaking person in the took who was becoming a citizen after just 3 years, when the rest were here for anywhere from 7 to 15 years. Just because you come here legally, still doesn't mean you can even apply for citizenship after 5 years. |
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