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Post by mrdobalina on May 13, 2023 15:58:22 GMT -5
Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. Could we perhaps get some statics on why preterism is a wrong Doctrine? If you know a little bit about full preterism, then you know how people look at you when you first introduce the idea that Jesus "second coming" happened in 70ad with the destruction of the Jewish temple. They think you're crazy, but once you nail them with those time statements, they begin to hit a wall. Words start to mean different things and next things you know, Jesus final judgement, Resurrection etc. are all fit into the destruction of God's chosen people in Jerusalem. Of course, they won't call them God's chosen people, but I think it's ironic that they see nothing discussing Rome in Revelation. Scripture can be metaphor, literal or both. Scripture can also have double meanings. Scripture can also have several meanings. Which is fantastic for arguing your own paticular case. There's also some extreme weirdness, I mean what did that king do with the 200 Pharisees foreskins?
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Post by Grant on May 13, 2023 16:07:41 GMT -5
OK so I have been around for 67 years and I have never heard any worker say "...professing is you accepting the workers, and baptism is the workers accepting you." Someone needs to council the worker who said that! I am on the East coast and have been to meeting from Pennsylvania to Georgia and West to Indiana. What do you call it when you profess. Are you not accepting the F&W group which is lead by the workers? And, how do you explain that the workers can deny you baptism if they don't think you are worthy of it? We were taught that you needed to profess to be saved and if you left the group you 'lost out'. We also have heard of people coming from the RCC and needing to be rebaptized because the workers didn't accept their baptism from another denomination. If the baptism is between god and the person then why do the workers have the right to deny the person baptism? It may not have been something they say, but by their actions it's definitely what they believe. That the workers have to see you as worthy before you can be baptized by them. Doesn't that pretty much say baptism is the workers accepting you? If you have been baptized in another church you have to be baptised again by the workers. Professing in workers meetings is definitely accepting the workers as the only true Servants of God and all other conversions and baptisms are false. How many Christians are allowed to go and take part in Sunday morning meetings without professing in workers meetings first? Professing means believing in the workers and membership into their church.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 13, 2023 16:16:21 GMT -5
Scripture can be metaphor, literal or both. Scripture can also have double meanings. Scripture can also have several meanings. Which is fantastic for arguing your own paticular case. There's also some extreme weirdness, I mean what did that king do with the 200 Pharisees foreskins? Where did he get them from. That story is just plain weird and does nothing to promote their god.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 13, 2023 23:42:32 GMT -5
Which is fantastic for arguing your own paticular case. There's also some extreme weirdness, I mean what did that king do with the 200 Pharisees foreskins? Where did he get them from. That story is just plain weird and does nothing to promote their god. It promotes the people that invented this particular god as sexual deviants. Hardly surprising that the servants of god are made of the same stuff. The nuts don't fall far from the tree.
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Post by margaret on May 13, 2023 23:54:10 GMT -5
Bob Williston had no interest in rewriting anything in the Bible. Interpretation is YOUR prerogative. Sorry you got dragged into this Bob, just further proof believers can't evaluate facts. wally is no t a “believer”. He believes in the way (the truth) but he doesn’t believe he needs to actually do what Jesus commands.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2023 10:13:19 GMT -5
Sorry you got dragged into this Bob, just further proof believers can't evaluate facts. wally is no t a “believer”. He believes in the way (the truth) but he doesn’t believe he needs to actually do what Jesus commands. *not Ah, the bitter delusional one is back. Where have you been? NAMI they can help...
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Post by margaret on May 14, 2023 11:22:21 GMT -5
wally is no t a “believer”. He believes in the way (the truth) but he doesn’t believe he needs to actually do what Jesus commands. *not Ah, the bitter delusional one is back. Where have you been? NAMI they can help... Poor wally. I love you because I have to love my enemies but nonbelievers in the truth can be as hateful as they wanna be. Bastards.
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Post by Umfolozi on May 14, 2023 17:22:04 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2023 18:26:43 GMT -5
*not Ah, the bitter delusional one is back. Where have you been? NAMI they can help... Poor wally. I love you because I have to love my enemies but nonbelievers in the truth can be as hateful as they wanna be. Bastards. "have to?" You missed the whole msg right there... Too funny Ms. bitter. NAMI they can help...
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Post by oliverw on May 29, 2023 11:40:45 GMT -5
OK so I have been around for 67 years and I have never heard any worker say "...professing is you accepting the workers, and baptism is the workers accepting you." Someone needs to council the worker who said that! I am on the East coast and have been to meeting from Pennsylvania to Georgia and West to Indiana. What do you call it when you profess. Are you not accepting the F&W group which is lead by the workers? And, how do you explain that the workers can deny you baptism if they don't think you are worthy of it? We were taught that you needed to profess to be saved and if you left the group you 'lost out'. We also have heard of people coming from the RCC and needing to be rebaptized because the workers didn't accept their baptism from another denomination. If the baptism is between god and the person then why do the workers have the right to deny the person baptism? It may not have been something they say, but by their actions it's definitely what they believe. That the workers have to see you as worthy before you can be baptized by them. Doesn't that pretty much say baptism is the workers accepting you? I’ve never heard the quote about professing and baptism either. Locally, if you’ve professed you can fully participate in meeting. Baptism isn’t necessary. I’ve always understood that professing gets you saved, not baptism.
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Post by snow on May 29, 2023 12:41:11 GMT -5
What do you call it when you profess. Are you not accepting the F&W group which is lead by the workers? And, how do you explain that the workers can deny you baptism if they don't think you are worthy of it? We were taught that you needed to profess to be saved and if you left the group you 'lost out'. We also have heard of people coming from the RCC and needing to be rebaptized because the workers didn't accept their baptism from another denomination. If the baptism is between god and the person then why do the workers have the right to deny the person baptism? It may not have been something they say, but by their actions it's definitely what they believe. That the workers have to see you as worthy before you can be baptized by them. Doesn't that pretty much say baptism is the workers accepting you? I’ve never heard the quote about professing and baptism either. Locally, if you’ve professed you can fully participate in meeting. Baptism isn’t necessary. I’ve always understood that professing gets you saved, not baptism. That's interesting. I lived in two different provinces growing up and I professed at 8 years old until 12. I was never baptized because I quit professing early on. I was never allowed to partake of the emblems. You had to be baptized. I know friends that were told by the workers that they wouldn't baptize them because they didn't approve of how they dressed. I know 1st hand because I was there when one of the kids I knew in our area asked the worker. I was going to ask too but when they got turned down I decided I probably shouldn't ask right then. I never did ask in the long run. We have had people here talk of their experience of having to be baptized again when they joined the 2x2's. That of course, I cannot confirm, but I have no reason to doubt them. I know that the workers can prevent baptism, that was firsthand.
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Post by neighbour on May 29, 2023 12:54:15 GMT -5
I’ve never heard the quote about professing and baptism either. Locally, if you’ve professed you can fully participate in meeting. Baptism isn’t necessary. I’ve always understood that professing gets you saved, not baptism. That's interesting. I lived in two different provinces growing up and I professed at 8 years old until 12. I was never baptized because I quit professing early on. I was never allowed to partake of the emblems. You had to be baptized. I know friends that were told by the workers that they wouldn't baptize them because they didn't approve of how they dressed. I know 1st hand because I was there when one of the kids I knew in our area asked the worker. I was going to ask too but when they got turned down I decided I probably shouldn't ask right then. I never did ask in the long run. We have had people here talk of their experience of having to be baptized again when they joined the 2x2's. That of course, I cannot confirm, but I have no reason to doubt them. I know that the workers can prevent baptism, that was firsthand. Workers definitely deny baptism. I know several people who had to wait to "prove themselves", mainly because they were fairly "worldly" teenagers.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 17:57:26 GMT -5
That's interesting. I lived in two different provinces growing up and I professed at 8 years old until 12. I was never baptized because I quit professing early on. I was never allowed to partake of the emblems. You had to be baptized. I know friends that were told by the workers that they wouldn't baptize them because they didn't approve of how they dressed. I know 1st hand because I was there when one of the kids I knew in our area asked the worker. I was going to ask too but when they got turned down I decided I probably shouldn't ask right then. I never did ask in the long run. We have had people here talk of their experience of having to be baptized again when they joined the 2x2's. That of course, I cannot confirm, but I have no reason to doubt them. I know that the workers can prevent baptism, that was firsthand. Workers definitely deny baptism. I know several people who had to wait to "prove themselves", mainly because they were fairly "worldly" teenagers. After my first request and 2nd, it was 13 years of waiting for me.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 31, 2023 20:12:36 GMT -5
Workers definitely deny baptism. I know several people who had to wait to "prove themselves", mainly because they were fairly "worldly" teenagers. After my first request and 2nd, it was 13 years of waiting for me. Wally, you really are a Legend. (And not just in your TMB ranking either.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2023 1:42:08 GMT -5
After my first request and 2nd, it was 13 years of waiting for me. Wally, you really are a Legend. (And not just in your TMB ranking either.)
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Post by fixit on Jun 1, 2023 3:05:37 GMT -5
Workers definitely deny baptism. I know several people who had to wait to "prove themselves", mainly because they were fairly "worldly" teenagers. After my first request and 2nd, it was 13 years of waiting for me. Did you take your gun?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2023 14:33:31 GMT -5
After my first request and 2nd, it was 13 years of waiting for me. Did you take your gun? Should I have? Wouldn't be all that smart to immerse a firearm in water scientist...
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Post by intelchips on Jun 1, 2023 15:13:00 GMT -5
Not sure that this will speed along false doctrine, but it might help to understand doctrine: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f71Se-KgrQUnderstanding the Dead Sea Scrolls with Dr. Charlesworth and how they relate to Jesus.
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Post by snow on Jun 1, 2023 15:41:10 GMT -5
Not sure that this will speed along false doctrine, but it might help to understand doctrine: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f71Se-KgrQUnderstanding the Dead Sea Scrolls with Dr. Charlesworth and how they relate to Jesus. The dead sea scrolls are definitely interesting. What I find interesting is this class is being taught by believers. After reading the scrolls myself, it became apparent to me that Jesus was more of a concept that had been around for years in one form or another in other religions. Are you a believer intelchips? Did you take this class or any like it before?
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Post by intelchips on Jun 1, 2023 15:52:20 GMT -5
Not sure that this will speed along false doctrine, but it might help to understand doctrine: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f71Se-KgrQUnderstanding the Dead Sea Scrolls with Dr. Charlesworth and how they relate to Jesus. The dead sea scrolls are definitely interesting. What I find interesting is this class is being taught by believers. After reading the scrolls myself, it became apparent to me that Jesus was more of a concept that had been around for years in one form or another in other religions. Are you a believer intelchips? Did you take this class or any like it before? I've never taken this exact class, but I have taken other like it. I have known Tabor for years. He is one of the few who doesn't agree with all but much of what Robert Eisenman claims.
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Post by snow on Jun 1, 2023 16:11:33 GMT -5
The dead sea scrolls are definitely interesting. What I find interesting is this class is being taught by believers. After reading the scrolls myself, it became apparent to me that Jesus was more of a concept that had been around for years in one form or another in other religions. Are you a believer intelchips? Did you take this class or any like it before? I've never taken this exact class, but I have taken other like it. I have known Tabor for years. He is one of the few who doesn't agree with all but much of what Robert Eisenman claims. I have read a few books by Tabor. He's pretty good. Found this one pretty interesting. The Jesus Dynasty: The Hidden History of Jesus, His Royal Family and the Birth of Christianity Have you ever read any by Jonathan Kirsch? Some of his I've read are: Moses, A Life The Harlot on the Side of the Road: Tales of the Bible The Woman who laughed at God: The untold history of the Jewish people God against the gods: The history of the war between monotheism and polytheism Another author I liked was Stephen Hoeller Jung and the Lost Gospels: Insights into the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library.
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Post by intelchips on Jun 1, 2023 16:18:38 GMT -5
I've never taken this exact class, but I have taken other like it. I have known Tabor for years. He is one of the few who doesn't agree with all but much of what Robert Eisenman claims. I have read a few books by Tabor. He's pretty good. Found this one pretty interesting. The Jesus Dynasty: The Hidden History of Jesus, His Royal Family and the Birth of Christianity Have you ever read any by Jonathan Kirsch? Some of his I've read are: Moses, A Life The Harlot on the Side of the Road: Tales of the Bible The Woman who laughed at God: The untold history of the Jewish people God against the gods: The history of the war between monotheism and polytheism Another author I liked was Stephen Hoeller Jung and the Lost Gospels: Insights into the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library. Jonathan was at University of California Santa gin& while I was with Eisenman at Long Beach. I don't think I've read his work, but I've heard of him. As-far-as Hoeller there are so many books on the scrolls that I can't say I have. By far the best book on the subject is www.amazon.com/Meaning-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-Understanding-ebook/dp/B00DTTBZB2 because it covers all the arguments pro and con on the various topics surround the DSS.
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Post by Michael Spinner on Sept 14, 2023 10:59:18 GMT -5
Just recently found out that they do not believe in the deity of Christ. Just had a sit down with two workers in my parents home and was shocked to find I have grown up in the “truth” my whole life not realizing they don’t believe Jesus is part of the Godhead. This is the main central issue of the gospel if you have this wrong nothing else matters. Has anyone else realized this?
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Post by snow on Sept 14, 2023 14:09:14 GMT -5
Just recently found out that they do not believe in the deity of Christ. Just had a sit down with two workers in my parents home and was shocked to find I have grown up in the “truth” my whole life not realizing they don’t believe Jesus is part of the Godhead. This is the main central issue of the gospel if you have this wrong nothing else matters. Has anyone else realized this? They haven't for a long time if ever. Some say that the earliest workers William Irvine and his crew did believe in the trinity and over time it changed. But I remember hearing that Jesus was our elder brother, just a man. It was preached that if one of us could become perfect that it was a good role model for us to follow. They also denied he was part of the Godhead when he was crucified because if he was God then the crucifixion lost it's meaning because he didn't really suffer. I imagine that other people have other things they can add that they heard about why Jesus wasn't part of the Godhead.
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Post by Dan on Sept 14, 2023 16:00:15 GMT -5
Just recently found out that they do not believe in the deity of Christ. Just had a sit down with two workers in my parents home and was shocked to find I have grown up in the “truth” my whole life not realizing they don’t believe Jesus is part of the Godhead. This is the main central issue of the gospel if you have this wrong nothing else matters. Has anyone else realized this?
That's the reason my parents left the Truth, after learning that the Workers denied the divinity of Christ and the trinity.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1).
I don't know who the Workers think is coming back in all his glory with all his angels? Or why the Jews got mad when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"
Its sad they are unlearned, I guess they think that Jesus was just some lucky bloke who found favor with God?
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Post by verna on Sept 14, 2023 20:12:33 GMT -5
Just recently found out that they do not believe in the deity of Christ. Just had a sit down with two workers in my parents home and was shocked to find I have grown up in the “truth” my whole life not realizing they don’t believe Jesus is part of the Godhead. This is the main central issue of the gospel if you have this wrong nothing else matters. Has anyone else realized this?
That's the reason my parents left the Truth, after learning that the Workers denied the divinity of Christ and the trinity.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (John 1).
I don't know who the Workers think is coming back in all his glory with all his angels? Or why the Jews got mad when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM"
Its sad they are unlearned, I guess they think that Jesus was just some lucky bloke who found favor with God?
Tell this to an adopted kid! I always believed as a 2x2 that Jesus was the son of God. Not just some random person. But I seriously don’t get it. Anyway you look at it there is no way of making sense of it.
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Post by Michael Spinner on Sept 17, 2023 5:32:33 GMT -5
When discussing about the divinity of Christ they (the workers) kept saying well we just don’t know if he was created or not we just don’t have that in scripture. So I showed them the scripture that ALL things were created through him and by him. If he was created that verse would have to say all other things. But let’s assume they are correct for one second that Jesus is not part of the Godhead wouldn’t ending prayers in Jesus name be idolatry? The definition of idolatry is giving worship to someone or something other than God. I don’t know of a bigger form of worship than praying to someone. We see in Revelation 5 all of creation worshipping God the Father and the Lamb (Jesus). If Jesus is not part of the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) then this is all of creation worshipping him.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 18, 2023 1:43:15 GMT -5
Just recently found out that they do not believe in the deity of Christ. Just had a sit down with two workers in my parents home and was shocked to find I have grown up in the “truth” my whole life not realizing they don’t believe Jesus is part of the Godhead. This is the main central issue of the gospel if you have this wrong nothing else matters. Has anyone else realized this? Not me.
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