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Post by jonathan on Apr 26, 2023 2:17:18 GMT -5
Letter by Rob Newman, Overseer of California Re: Removal of John VanDenBerg from the work – April 2023
Apr 25
Dear fellow workers, elders, and friends,
Our prayers are that God will help us make the right decisions as we go forward. We realize that his hand is active. This gives us hope. We are looking forward to seeing you at the upcoming conventions.
We are saddened that it has become necessary for us to ask John VanDenBerg to step aside from the ministry. Recently we have received several credible allegations of unacceptable sexual behavior, including a complaint of inappropriate touching of a minor, which has been reported to the authorities. We want to make sure that all victims and their families feel free to come forward so we can support them in every way possible — they will not be blamed. and their identities will be kept confidential. We also want to confirm again, that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated.
These things bring sorrow and concern to our heart, and we think especially of those who are victims. In recent times, when more of these kinds of errors have been brought to light and dealt with, we are left with the feeling that God has brought about a special season of cleansing. and change going forward. In our grief, we are comforted to know that His hand is working a greater work for the good of everyone involved. Once again, we are reminded His name is a holy name, not to be profaned, and this causes us all to deeply search our own heart.
2 Timothy 2:19 'Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." We are thankful for the perfect foundation in Jesus. and the comfort of knowing our Father is working in these events and that He is well able to help, heal. and preserve every soul who comes to Him with a humble, contrite heart.
Thanks for your support and input. Elders, please communicate this letter to each family or individual in your meeting soon, in an appropriate way.
Your brother, Rob
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 26, 2023 9:02:38 GMT -5
This is interesting. I've never suspected John of such a thing, but there was one time
when he was visiting our home that I refused to let him go out for a walk with one of my
grandchildren -- on principle. It was about the time the whole state seemed to be lamenting
that they could do nothing about poor Ruben. I felt like I was being mean, but our children
need to be cared for.
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Post by jonathan on Apr 26, 2023 9:11:16 GMT -5
This is interesting. I've never suspected John of such a thing, but there was one time when he was visiting our home that I refused to let him go out for a walk with one of my grandchildren -- on principle. It was about the time the whole state seemed to be lamenting that they could do nothing about poor Ruben. I felt like I was being mean, but our children need to be cared for. And now time has shown that you've been right. Good for you Bob, that you chose to put the interest of children before being nice/polite to a worker. We need more people responsible like you! |
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Post by jonathan on Apr 26, 2023 9:20:22 GMT -5
Even if it was uncomfortable for you at the time, Bob, I'm sure the vindication and confirmation now is sweet!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2023 0:27:02 GMT -5
Even if it was uncomfortable for you at the time, Bob, I'm sure the vindication and confirmation now is sweet! Ummmm, should we ever be joyful that someone actually did the evil we said they would or suspected? |
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Post by jonathan on Apr 27, 2023 0:33:58 GMT -5
No, with all our power we have to stop someone from doing any evil. No, not if we had facts and evidence that they were absolutely going to do it.
I was under the impression it was more of a suspicion, intuition, or just sincere care from Bob's side.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 27, 2023 3:38:12 GMT -5
Even if it was uncomfortable for you at the time, Bob, I'm sure the vindication and confirmation now is sweet! Ummmm, should we ever be joyful that someone actually did the evil we said they would or suspected? A very good question Wally, and something I have examined. There is something in the psyche of many people who rejoice when someone trips, criticise them, and then don't want to see them make good. If we are victim-centric focused, we will be saddened, not joyful, when someone commits the evil we suspected they were capable of.
Personally I'd rather be proven wrong in my suspicion of wrong-doing in another, than proven right.
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Post by jonathan on Apr 27, 2023 3:40:39 GMT -5
Ummmm, should we ever be joyful that someone actually did the evil we said they would or suspected? A very good question Wally, and something I have examined. There is something in the psyche of many people who rejoice when someone trips, criticise them, and then don't want to see them make good. If we are victim-centric focused, we will be saddened, not joyful, when someone commits the evil we suspected they were capable of.
Personally I'd rather be proven wrong in my suspicion of wrong-doing in another, than proven right.
Better safe than sorry! Children's safety comes first. |
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 27, 2023 3:46:22 GMT -5
A very good question Wally, and something I have examined. There is something in the psyche of many people who rejoice when someone trips, criticise them, and then don't want to see them make good. If we are victim-centric focused, we will be saddened, not joyful, when someone commits the evil we suspected they were capable of.
Personally I'd rather be proven wrong in my suspicion of wrong-doing in another, than proven right.
Better safe than sorry! Children's safety comes first. 100% agree |
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Post by jonathan on Apr 27, 2023 3:52:08 GMT -5
I'd far rather have an adult who is angry at me because I didn't trust him to go alone for a walk with a kid, than to have to look that kid in the eyes and say sorry I should've protected you and said no but I was more taken up with being nice to another adult than my responsibility to you as a child to look out for you.
I speak from my own experience. At the time when protecting the child, I had absolutely no idea or evidence at the time that that adult was a pervert. I acted on principle. I said no and protected the child. Later on, it came out that same adult abused another kid. Was I glad afterward that I could look the first kid, the one I protected, in the eye! Not just the kid, but also the parents. No regret. Better safe than sorry!
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 27, 2023 9:19:34 GMT -5
Ummmm, should we ever be joyful that someone actually did the evil we said they would or suspected? A very good question Wally, and something I have examined. There is something in the psyche of many people who rejoice when someone trips, criticise them, and then don't want to see them make good. If we are victim-centric focused, we will be saddened, not joyful, when someone commits the evil we suspected they were capable of.
Personally I'd rather be proven wrong in my suspicion of wrong-doing in another, than proven right. There's a term for this: Schadenfreude. According to Wiki, is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another. It is a borrowed word from German, with no direct translation, that originated in the 18th century. Interestingly, Wikki notes that schadenfreude has been detected in children as young as 24 months. So it is pretty intrinsic to our make up. Wiki also notes that researchers have found that there are three driving forces behind schadenfreude – aggression, rivalry, and justice. I think a sense of justice is behind many of us having these kinds of feelings. There is no satisfaction in the actual failures of another, but there is satisfaction in having paid attention to our intuition, and having it confirmed that we were right. It helps you trust your intuition the next time, a very valuable skill in navigating your way through life. |
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Post by snow on Apr 27, 2023 17:47:19 GMT -5
A very good question Wally, and something I have examined. There is something in the psyche of many people who rejoice when someone trips, criticise them, and then don't want to see them make good. If we are victim-centric focused, we will be saddened, not joyful, when someone commits the evil we suspected they were capable of.
Personally I'd rather be proven wrong in my suspicion of wrong-doing in another, than proven right. There's a term for this: Schadenfreude. According to Wiki, is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another. It is a borrowed word from German, with no direct translation, that originated in the 18th century. Interestingly, Wikki notes that schadenfreude has been detected in children as young as 24 months. So it is pretty intrinsic to our make up. Wiki also notes that researchers have found that there are three driving forces behind schadenfreude – aggression, rivalry, and justice. I think a sense of justice is behind many of us having these kinds of feelings. There is no satisfaction in the actual failures of another, but there is satisfaction in having paid attention to our intuition, and having it confirmed that we were right. It helps you trust your intuition the next time, a very valuable skill in navigating your way through life. Interesting, thank you for that. And I agree that one of the most protective things we can do for ourselves is trust our instincts and not dismiss them because of any number of reasons eg. he's professing so therefore is trustworthy so I'm probably wrong about what I'm feeling. |
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Post by jonathan on May 7, 2023 15:15:02 GMT -5
Any word on how the victims are doing?
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Post by internationalstudies on May 7, 2023 15:58:26 GMT -5
Any word on how the victims are doing? Jonathan are you for real? Are you really a worker? or are you 'playing games'? More than a week ago one poster asked regarding you: And the Admin can verify anything? how?
More than a week ago you replied: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.'strangely' Admin hasn't got in touch with me. Until that happens the doubts remain that you are worker. But hey what is new? Look at all the 'games' that posters play on TMB. More muddying of the waters. Let the buyer reader beware! Jonathan, My offer of a public apology to you remains....it will be posted just as soon as Admin pms me confirming the truth of the above. I have no interest in knowing your personal identity. However I do share the same view as Admin regarding those imposting as workers on this forum. Continue to post, you have every right to do so. But please come clean and don't deceive and confuse TMB readers by stating that you are a worker if you aren't. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2023 20:15:14 GMT -5
Any word on how the victims are doing? Jonathan are you for real? Are you really a worker? or are you 'playing games'? More than a week ago one poster asked regarding you: And the Admin can verify anything? how?
More than a week ago you replied: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.'strangely' Admin hasn't got in touch with me. Until that happens the doubts remain that you are worker. But hey what is new? Look at all the 'games' that posters play on TMB. More muddying of the waters. Let the buyer reader beware! Jonathan, My offer of a public apology to you remains....it will be posted just as soon as Admin pms me confirming the truth of the above. I have no interest in knowing your personal identity. However I do share the same view as Admin regarding those imposting as workers on this forum. Continue to post, you have every right to do so. But please come clean and don't deceive and confuse TMB readers by stating that you are a worker if you aren't. You are lying dXXXless wonder. That wasn't my point. The question was directed at YOU, as you had that requirement. |
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Post by internationalstudies on May 7, 2023 20:29:13 GMT -5
Jonathan are you for real? Are you really a worker? or are you 'playing games'? More than a week ago one poster asked regarding you: And the Admin can verify anything? how?
More than a week ago you replied: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.'strangely' Admin hasn't got in touch with me. Until that happens the doubts remain that you are worker. But hey what is new? Look at all the 'games' that posters play on TMB. More muddying of the waters. Let the buyer reader beware! Jonathan, My offer of a public apology to you remains....it will be posted just as soon as Admin pms me confirming the truth of the above. I have no interest in knowing your personal identity. However I do share the same view as Admin regarding those imposting as workers on this forum. Continue to post, you have every right to do so. But please come clean and don't deceive and confuse TMB readers by stating that you are a worker if you aren't. You are lying dXXXless wonder. That wasn't my point. The question was directed at YOU, as you had that requirement. Wally I have seen others posting as crudely/vulgarly as this. I thought more of you, but guess I have to revise. Your crude/vulgar post doesn't change this truth; that Jonathan posted: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.
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Post by mountain on May 8, 2023 9:17:24 GMT -5
I'd far rather have an adult who is angry at me because I didn't trust him to go alone for a walk with a kid, than to have to look that kid in the eyes and say sorry I should've protected you and said no but I was more taken up with being nice to another adult than my responsibility to you as a child to look out for you. I speak from my own experience. At the time when protecting the child, I had absolutely no idea or evidence at the time that that adult was a pervert. I acted on principle. I said no and protected the child. Later on, it came out that same adult abused another kid. Was I glad afterward that I could look the first kid, the one I protected, in the eye! Not just the kid, but also the parents. No regret. Better safe than sorry! Johnathan this board is no place for you. You are showing too many signs of being sensible. |
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Post by luke2236 on May 8, 2023 9:21:14 GMT -5
Jonathan are you for real? Are you really a worker? or are you 'playing games'? More than a week ago one poster asked regarding you: And the Admin can verify anything? how?
More than a week ago you replied: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.'strangely' Admin hasn't got in touch with me. Until that happens the doubts remain that you are worker. But hey what is new? Look at all the 'games' that posters play on TMB. More muddying of the waters. Let the buyer reader beware! Jonathan, My offer of a public apology to you remains....it will be posted just as soon as Admin pms me confirming the truth of the above. I have no interest in knowing your personal identity. However I do share the same view as Admin regarding those imposting as workers on this forum. Continue to post, you have every right to do so. But please come clean and don't deceive and confuse TMB readers by stating that you are a worker if you aren't. You are lying dXXXless wonder. That wasn't my point. The question was directed at YOU, as you had that requirement. Wally, you are now my favorite. |
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on May 8, 2023 9:55:13 GMT -5
Any word on how the victims are doing? I haven't heard anything. The SOLUTION to the problem needs to be victim focused. |
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Post by jonathan on May 8, 2023 10:39:46 GMT -5
I'd far rather have an adult who is angry at me because I didn't trust him to go alone for a walk with a kid, than to have to look that kid in the eyes and say sorry I should've protected you and said no but I was more taken up with being nice to another adult than my responsibility to you as a child to look out for you. I speak from my own experience. At the time when protecting the child, I had absolutely no idea or evidence at the time that that adult was a pervert. I acted on principle. I said no and protected the child. Later on, it came out that same adult abused another kid. Was I glad afterward that I could look the first kid, the one I protected, in the eye! Not just the kid, but also the parents. No regret. Better safe than sorry! Johnathan this board is no place for you. You are showing too many signs of being sensible. Thank you Mountain! In Acts 23:1 Paul said 'Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." At different times it seems we're tested on different aspects, and new challenges or battles present themselves. Our journey of life takes us past different landscapes. The last month or so, for me personally, emphasis has been on "in all good conscience before God". Men-pleasers wil at some point run into a problem with "in all good conscience before God". Still a lot to learn about this. The light of truth (remember Christ is the Light, and He is also the Truth" shining into us at first is a new experience, it brings to light what we have accepted as ok in our lives by our own measuring standards. Maybe even measuring ourselves by looking at others? But now the Light of the Truth shines in and our conscience is awakened and we become aware of a higher bar to meet in order to have peace with God. If we all just do our best, "in all good conscience before God" we will be able to look every victim or survivor in the eye, and knowing we have done our best by the peace of God we have in our hearts. We will have liberty when the children are as safe as we possible can have them, because we all are doing our best "in all good conscience before God" |
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on May 8, 2023 10:50:13 GMT -5
Johnathan this board is no place for you. You are showing too many signs of being sensible. Thank you Mountain! In Acts 23:1 Paul said 'Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." At different times it seems we're tested on different aspects, and new challenges or battles present themselves. Our journey of life takes us past different landscapes. The last month or so, for me personally, emphasis has been on "in all good conscience before God". Men-pleasers wil at some point run into a problem with "in all good conscience before God". Still a lot to learn about this. The light of truth (remember Christ is the Light, and He is also the Truth" shining into us at first is a new experience, it brings to light what we have accepted as ok in our lives by our own measuring standards. Maybe even measuring ourselves by looking at others? But now the Light of the Truth shines in and our conscience is awakened and we become aware of a higher bar to meet in order to have peace with God. If we all just do our best, "in all good conscience before God" we will be able to look every victim or survivor in the eye, and knowing we have done our best by the peace of God we have in our hearts. We will have liberty when the children are as safe as we possible can have them, because we all are doing our best "in all good conscience before God" Very nice! We need to also think in terms of pursuing peace. The Light will guide us in that. |
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Post by internationalstudies on May 8, 2023 11:27:52 GMT -5
Johnathan this board is no place for you. You are showing too many signs of being sensible. Thank you Mountain! In Acts 23:1 Paul said 'Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day." At different times it seems we're tested on different aspects, and new challenges or battles present themselves. Our journey of life takes us past different landscapes. The last month or so, for me personally, emphasis has been on "in all good conscience before God". Men-pleasers wil at some point run into a problem with "in all good conscience before God". Still a lot to learn about this. The light of truth (remember Christ is the Light, and He is also the Truth" shining into us at first is a new experience, it brings to light what we have accepted as ok in our lives by our own measuring standards. Maybe even measuring ourselves by looking at others? But now the Light of the Truth shines in and our conscience is awakened and we become aware of a higher bar to meet in order to have peace with God. If we all just do our best, "in all good conscience before God" we will be able to look every victim or survivor in the eye, and knowing we have done our best by the peace of God we have in our hearts. We will have liberty when the children are as safe as we possible can have them, because we all are doing our best "in all good conscience before God" I'm perplexed , Jonathan posts the above and also Yes I'm in the work. And not a Protector of Perps, Perverts, Perpetrators or Predators."and The cover-up shatters current and undermines possible future confidence and trust in the leadership who were supposed to look out for the flock, but they deceived the flock for their own filthy lucre."
James 3:10 "Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh." |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 8, 2023 19:11:25 GMT -5
Any word on how the victims are doing? I haven't heard anything. The SOLUTION to the problem needs to be victim focused. Anyone who reached out to me , has been fast tracked into CCASA . Calgary Communities Against Sexual Abuse . It is a very wonderful place No cost to victims . A very calm space to go . Therapy animals , during the session’s the victims can say whatever they wish . They can & do prepare them to file with police . If the matter gets to court they we be accompanied by their counselor . They can also have to victims of crime ladies by their side . If unable to be in court CCTV is allowed . They can also file for Victims of crime and receive compensation from the government . Each large city in 🇨🇦 has these same options . If they want their sex assault workers will and can be called into court . Excellent program which includes male and female victims ! |
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on May 8, 2023 19:24:28 GMT -5
I haven't heard anything. The SOLUTION to the problem needs to be victim focused. Anyone who reached out to me , has been fast tracked into CCASA . Calgary Communities Against Sexual Abuse . It is a very wonderful place No cost to victims . A very calm space to go . Therapy animals , during the session’s the victims can say whatever they wish . They can & do prepare them to file with police . If the matter gets to court they we be accompanied by their counselor . They can also have to victims of crime ladies by their side . If unable to be in court CCTV is allowed . They can also file for Victims of crime and receive compensation from the government . Each large city in 🇨🇦 has these same options . If they want their sex assault workers will and can be called into court . Excellent program which includes male and female victims ! Sounds like wonderful programs! |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 8, 2023 19:30:53 GMT -5
Anyone who reached out to me , has been fast tracked into CCASA . Calgary Communities Against Sexual Abuse . It is a very wonderful place No cost to victims . A very calm space to go . Therapy animals , during the session’s the victims can say whatever they wish . They can & do prepare them to file with police . If the matter gets to court they we be accompanied by their counselor . They can also have to victims of crime ladies by their side . If unable to be in court CCTV is allowed . They can also file for Victims of crime and receive compensation from the government . Each large city in 🇨🇦 has these same options . If they want their sex assault workers will and can be called into court . Excellent program which includes male and female victims ! Sounds like wonderful programs! In addition we will never know HOW THE VICTIMS ARE DOING . That information is not shared unless the victim decides to speak . Everyone heals at their own pace . Some carry scars you will never see in their life . Not outward scars ……….. correction needed some victims will self harm . Such as slashing their arms and other acts , so you may see very visible scars . That is how we transfer the pain in our hearts and brain . The physical pain distracts from our inner pain . |
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on May 8, 2023 20:20:56 GMT -5
Sounds like wonderful programs! In addition we will never know HOW THE VICTIMS ARE DOING . That information is not shared unless the victim decides to speak . Everyone heals at their own pace . Some carry scars you will never see in their life . Not outward scars ……….. correction needed some victims will self harm . Such as slashing their arms and other acts , so you may see very visible scars . That is how we transfer the pain in our hearts and brain . The physical pain distracts from our inner pain . I try to be mindful that there are many survivors I have no idea about so healthy boundaries, respect and being sensitive in how we treat others is highly important. For those we KNOW are victims or survivors....I try to be an open listener and a good listener. Once they find someone they feel is safe to talk to they really need to unburden themselves. Victims can get into a few patterns: either they have almost no boundaries, very limited boundaries and over share of themselves or they almost completely close themselves off from others and isolate. Inner hurt carried around with no good place to put it is very destructive to a person's mind, body, and soul. |
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Post by openingact34 on May 8, 2023 20:41:23 GMT -5
You are lying dXXXless wonder. That wasn't my point. The question was directed at YOU, as you had that requirement. Wally I have seen others posting as crudely/vulgarly as this. I thought more of you, but guess I have to revise. Your crude/vulgar post doesn't change this truth; that Jonathan posted: I've sent Admin a link to the last workers photo I appear on. It's the last one taken at the last Workers Meetings.
Admin already has my real identity.
You watch this space for the apology from internationalstudies.
There is a reason we call him "Worldly Wally" |
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Post by charlesfoxtrot on Mar 10, 2024 2:53:51 GMT -5
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