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Post by neighbour on Apr 21, 2023 7:47:41 GMT -5
'The eventual solution for all of this abuse was to move the abusers, one to Ontario, one temporarily to the USA and our overseer to Alberta.' Who are these guys who have been shuffled around? The companion abusers are women. I have a pretty good idea who the Ontario one is based on the lists, but I will refrain from making any accusations because I haven't corroborated it. I can't figure out the one that went to the US because the only one I know of that went to the US did so in 2020 and would not be a senior companion. Wayne Hutchison is the overseer who was moved. Dale Schultz and Ray Hoffman are both on the Maritime list as overseers in his place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 8:03:50 GMT -5
Well well well ,interesting .
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 22, 2023 0:05:29 GMT -5
Well well well ,interesting . My reaction too.
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bgm
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Post by bgm on Apr 22, 2023 11:31:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 13:57:23 GMT -5
Sad story
Where there is no love into something then it is false
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Post by snow on Apr 22, 2023 14:42:13 GMT -5
This letter made me so sad for that poor woman. Exclusivity preaching is so dangerous and this letter proves. I believe she would have spoken out if she hadn't genuinely believed that her silence would be her families salvation.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 22, 2023 15:29:55 GMT -5
"Our overseers heard our cries and they turned their back and walked away."
" I may never fully trust any human being ever again. That is something that the enemy, who is a thief, has taken away from me."
Heart wrenching
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 22, 2023 15:55:51 GMT -5
Chinese, since you mentioned having ADHD....MY son has it and has received treatment and therapy for it, including support group. He has learned a lot about it. I wish they knew more. But, he told me that now they think ADHD is slightly related to autism spectrum. And when you were describing the frilly dresses and stuff I just got a picture (giggles), but autistic kids don't like too much stimulation and some clothing items can drive them nuts. They are often highly intelligent too like ADHD people. Both my cuz and I have been told we are on the autism spectrum . So we both micro dose a bit of MM . Very small doses . One other of my cousins wife micro doses and it helps . We can concentrate better with that in the mix . My cuz is always shaking , so that is what we use . I don’t use very much . But my cuz’s anxiety is really bad .
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 22, 2023 17:38:37 GMT -5
We (TMB admin team) are aware that this experience involving the young sister worker Morgen is far from unique. We know of instances where other junior sister workers have been subject to abuses of power by senior companions, some of which constitute illegal behavior (e.g. workplace bullying and worse). We know of other alleged sexual abuse (adult to adult) between young sister workers and both male and female older workers. We know of reputations of some male workers, alleged to have sexually abused female staff while visiting from other fields. We know that some alleged perpetrators have been moved between countries, including South America (very alarming for those of us with a heart for the gospel being preached with power in some of the more far-flung countries). We know of blame-shifting over a very long period, onto those honest souls who have attempted to speak up for righteousness and for godly character and behavior in those purporting to be servants of God. Surely this needs to stop, and not just stop, but to be completely wiped clean. Now! Wow! Very interesting... The entire situation as well as the livid letter from the parents is strikingly similar to the one from Australia a couple years ago. anotherstep.info/Documents/AustraliaRachelTaylor2020.pdfIt's just like the hymn says: "God's own way abides the same in every age and clime"
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 22, 2023 17:51:04 GMT -5
Chinese, since you mentioned having ADHD....MY son has it and has received treatment and therapy for it, including support group. He has learned a lot about it. I wish they knew more. But, he told me that now they think ADHD is slightly related to autism spectrum. And when you were describing the frilly dresses and stuff I just got a picture (giggles), but autistic kids don't like too much stimulation and some clothing items can drive them nuts. They are often highly intelligent too like ADHD people. Both my cuz and I have been told we are on the autism spectrum . So we both micro dose a bit of MM . Very small doses . One other of my cousins wife micro doses and it helps . We can concentrate better with that in the mix . My cuz is always shaking , so that is what we use . I don’t use very much . But my cuz’s anxiety is really bad . MM is medicinal MJ, I'm guessing? It's been used in medicine for quite a while. Oz. for Oz. it's much better than some other substances I can think of and not as damaging to the body's organs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 9:54:06 GMT -5
I Don't understand , there are 2 Canadian workers Morgan and Alanna who have been abused or have been touched inappropriately right ?
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Post by jonathan on Apr 23, 2023 12:36:00 GMT -5
I refer to the two following letters: professing.proboards.com/post/1044207professing.proboards.com/post/1044788(Not sure if I'm doing this correctly? can someone please give me an indication?) The letters are very erious and sincere in content, actually desperate in tone. Very well articulated. Wish I could express myself like both writers in these letters. We respect the process she is going through, and at the appropriate time, more info will emerge. We'll give them the space and time to find the right moment. Even if they choose not to, we'll respect that too. The mere fact that these things are happening in the works is simply unacceptable. We don't need more details, ie names of people and places involved to determine or measure a level of unacceptableness. Unfortunately, I recognize what J has written, and also what the parents of M are talking about. I personally have had my own share of emotional/bullying/narcissistic treatment. The damage it does to a person goes very deep. even to the point where one doubts if the overseers are really guided and led by the SPirit as we want to believe they are! She has clearly gone through what no worker who sincerely and honestly offer their lives for the ministry wholeheartedly wants to be dealing with. The sorts of abuse that have come to light the last few weeks especially are simply the result of a complete lack of self-denial and self-control. Where self rules at the cost of the Spirit in a life, there can sure to be all sorts of works of the flesh. Scripture is sufficient to guide us in all things important. It is when scripture is neglected or departed from that all sorts of trouble arise. Workers guilty of this behavior simply should not be in the work. Their ministry will have a hollow ring to it. People with integrity can be trusted, and this goes for workers too. If workers don't have integrity, they can never be trusted with the responsibility of being in the ministry. The way the overseer/s have handled their efforts to raise the issues is totally un-scriptural. In fact, it goes right against the teaching of the Lord Jesus in the parable of the Good Samaritan. The response to these two sisters, and highly likely others also, by the overseer/s also miss the test of proof that it is of the "Wisdom which is from above", in that it is not "full of mercy and good fruit". The ministry is suffering tremendously as a result thereof. And this is by far not the only pain and loss there is. Others are also victims of decisions and actions that are contrary to the scripture and doctrine. Furthermore, it seems even the response and reaction by other co-workers were also unacceptable... Shame on them! I cannot help but think that both God the Father and the Lord Jesus are pained in their hearts as they look down on this... The Holy Spirit also will be disappointed and frustrated as it was quenched instead of sought and followed. My sincerest sympathies with all victims, of all sorts of abuse and also those who suffer because of the ripple effect. In my view, the only way we can build a new future is to go back to the drawing board; the original design of the ministry. Search and discover the original cornerstone and start building again with proper material, ie workers who are wholeheartedly in the work, who have integrity, who uphold all the teachings and sound doctrine not just in word but also in spirit and deed, workers who love and respect the souls of people more than they love themselves, workers who have a testimony that at least the friends have confidence in, workers who know how to serve others instead of themselves. I am sure we already have quite a number of such workers. Unfortunately it will be a huge task to rid the ministry worldwide of workers who shouldn't be there. But what is right is right, and we shouldn't be deterred simply because of the scale or the potential impact of it. With abuse I include CSA, emotional/bullying/narcissistic abuse, substance abuse and other forms like porn addiction etc. Some have called for reform of the ministry. The problem with reform is that the risk is simply too big that some of the undesired elements can still hide and survive. We have to go back to the original and cut out everything and everything that is not according to scripture. I have huge confidence in scripture. In my own experience, Psalm 119 verses 50 and 92 has carried me in my own dark experiences. This was where I found my comfort and quickening. It is still an ongoing process. So thankful the scripture has become my delight! It still is the light on my path and the lamp for my feet! All of the very best to all have and stilla re suffering because of any of this. May you feel the comfort of His presence until you see the light of hope!
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Post by Admin on Apr 23, 2023 16:17:25 GMT -5
Overseers are like Mafia bosses...absolute authority for a lifetime. Merlin, Walter, and Dale Shultz go WAY back. These are some of the same authorities that were excommunicating people across Canada during the huge purge in the 1990s. BE CAREFUL! If the friends keep pushing, these guys will revert to what they know how to do... You might find your family split and excommunicated and sent to hell.
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Post by snow on Apr 23, 2023 16:57:33 GMT -5
Yep they sure took down evilly ! Edgar’s cousin It always amazes me how there seems to only be 'bad spirits' if they are doing something the workers don't like. They sully reputations because someone talked to someone that the workers deemed to be of the 'wrong spirit'. Why? Because they asked hard questions, brought things to light that made them look bad and you just can't have that. These last few weeks, reading all those overseer letters and notes from the BC meeting, I sure have had my eyes opened to just how pervasive this is. I knew that families and long time friends were alienated from each other because those who chose to stay were told they would have to leave if they talked to those the workers excommunicated. Some had no choice. They had children in and still wanted to see their grandchildren and they knew if they talked to their friends, they would be kicked out too. This should not be how decisions are made. Your family or the right thing to do. The power that corrupts.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 23, 2023 17:53:56 GMT -5
I Don't understand , there are 2 Canadian workers Morgan and Alanna who have been abused or have been touched inappropriately right ? I don't know who to ask -- but I think there's more to it than just Morgan and Alanna. Even the Willie Martin scandal didn't bring two high overseers from the far ends of the continent to "fix" the situation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2023 7:56:45 GMT -5
Overseers are like Mafia bosses...absolute authority for a lifetime. Merlin, Walter, and Dale Shultz go WAY back. These are some of the same authorities that were excommunicating people across Canada during the huge purge in the 1990s. BE CAREFUL! If the friends keep pushing, these guys will revert to what they know how to do... You might find your family split and excommunicated and sent to hell. In the N.B. SHAME I don't think that Mafia bosses would leave their estates for only 2 poor women . Leave the bible and take the canollis
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2023 13:39:23 GMT -5
"Our overseers heard our cries and they turned their back and walked away." " I may never fully trust any human being ever again. That is something that the enemy, who is a thief, has taken away from me." Heart wrenching I'm glad those in the work are speaking up. That's about the only way to get through to many of the friends (if they ever hear about anything). When non-members say anything, it's "mind your own business!!". A response which, fwiw, I will NOT forget. The irony of professing people being ashamed of those that left. They don't know what "ashamed" is.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 11:53:21 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/thread/25089/2x2-business-model-exposedRead this from 2017. There’s a lot of things that makes one stop reading but there is a lot of value. Think about if the 2x2s had implemented a legal structure of accountability when this CSA coverup problem became public and how many victims would have been prevented. And if they were not prevented, how many victims could sue to fight against future CSA and SA coverups. “ The beauty of this business model, despite being illegal, is that if one of the 'Workers' commits a crime such as sexually assaulting a child, the victims of the crime are unable to successfully sue for damages from the Worker since the Worker himself/herself has no personal assets to seize. In a normal organization, the victims could sue the organization as well. But in 2x2ism case who do you sue since you don't even know who controls what or where the money is? Furthermore, there is no 2x2 legal entity to sue. This is the exact legal defense that a 2x2 Overseer used - that he was not a minister since there was no church that he was a minister of, and therefore how could he be held accountable. Beautiful. This is exactly how organized crime is set up. Even worse, all that hidden away money is then used by Overseers to pay for expensive lawyers to defend any 2x2 minister charged with a crime. What a racket. Or to put it in legal terms - racketeering. Thankfully in the US the Dept of Justice can use the RICO act to pierce the organizational structure. ”
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 11:57:34 GMT -5
'The eventual solution for all of this abuse was to move the abusers, one to Ontario, one temporarily to the USA and our overseer to Alberta.' Who are these guys who have been shuffled around? The companion abusers are women. I have a pretty good idea who the Ontario one is based on the lists, but I will refrain from making any accusations because I haven't corroborated it. I can't figure out the one that went to the US because the only one I know of that went to the US did so in 2020 and would not be a senior companion. Wayne Hutchison is the overseer who was moved. Dale Schultz and Ray Hoffman are both on the Maritime list as overseers in his place. I do know of an middle aged “ potential” lesbian abuser who “took advantage” of a younger female worker at convention in Texas in around 2008-2011 they went to a park at night and proceeded to do what lesbians do. I wonder if this is the same person. This isn’t necessarily illegal as both were adults but there is an element of submissiveness that is required for the younger worker so consent is hard to define here.
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Post by neighbour on Apr 29, 2023 13:00:01 GMT -5
The companion abusers are women. I have a pretty good idea who the Ontario one is based on the lists, but I will refrain from making any accusations because I haven't corroborated it. I can't figure out the one that went to the US because the only one I know of that went to the US did so in 2020 and would not be a senior companion. Wayne Hutchison is the overseer who was moved. Dale Schultz and Ray Hoffman are both on the Maritime list as overseers in his place. I do know of an middle aged “ potential” lesbian abuser who “took advantage” of a younger female worker at convention in Texas in around 2008-2011 they went to a park at night and proceeded to do what lesbians do. I wonder if this is the same person. This isn’t necessarily illegal as both were adults but there is an element of submissiveness that is required for the younger worker so consent is hard to define here. I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no moral standard under most overseers. Legal, illegal you're good to go as long as you don't preach against one way, one ministry, one hierarchy.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 13:07:12 GMT -5
I do know of an middle aged “ potential” lesbian abuser who “took advantage” of a younger female worker at convention in Texas in around 2008-2011 they went to a park at night and proceeded to do what lesbians do. I wonder if this is the same person. This isn’t necessarily illegal as both were adults but there is an element of submissiveness that is required for the younger worker so consent is hard to define here. I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no moral standard under most overseers. Legal, illegal you're good to go as long as you don't preach against one way, one ministry, one hierarchy. That’s the irony, being in the only way is a license to sin.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2023 19:37:58 GMT -5
The companion abusers are women. I have a pretty good idea who the Ontario one is based on the lists, but I will refrain from making any accusations because I haven't corroborated it. I can't figure out the one that went to the US because the only one I know of that went to the US did so in 2020 and would not be a senior companion. Wayne Hutchison is the overseer who was moved. Dale Schultz and Ray Hoffman are both on the Maritime list as overseers in his place. I do know of an middle aged “ potential” lesbian abuser who “took advantage” of a younger female worker at convention in Texas in around 2008-2011 they went to a park at night and proceeded to do what lesbians do. I wonder if this is the same person. This isn’t necessarily illegal as both were adults but there is an element of submissiveness that is required for the younger worker so consent is hard to define here. Between adults, a simple "no" is the only legal denial of consent.
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 29, 2023 19:45:12 GMT -5
I do know of an middle aged “ potential” lesbian abuser who “took advantage” of a younger female worker at convention in Texas in around 2008-2011 they went to a park at night and proceeded to do what lesbians do. I wonder if this is the same person. This isn’t necessarily illegal as both were adults but there is an element of submissiveness that is required for the younger worker so consent is hard to define here. Between adults, a simple "no" is the only legal denial of consent. clergysexualmisconduct.com/adult-clergy-abuse-law
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2023 19:45:22 GMT -5
I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no moral standard under most overseers. Legal, illegal you're good to go as long as you don't preach against one way, one ministry, one hierarchy. That’s the irony, being in the only way is a license to sin. It's a common enough fundamentalist principle. It's explained this way: they are chosen people, thus forgiven the moment the criminal act is committed. Among the 2x2's, it must be a special policy granted to the compulsive misbehaver's.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2023 19:51:19 GMT -5
I'm surprised there are still states where those crimes are protected. No wonder it's happened so frequently among the workers.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 29, 2023 19:57:24 GMT -5
In the N.B. SHAME I don't think that Mafia bosses would leave their estates for only 2 poor women . Leave the bible and take the canollis
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Post by jonathan on May 10, 2023 0:21:59 GMT -5
No place for abusers in the ministry!
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Post by Admin on May 11, 2023 20:57:18 GMT -5
Email went out tonight, Woodstock is back on. Thanks (can't wait!)
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