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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 16:23:22 GMT -5
I understand the embarrassment and humiliation that a young person might endure, but a parent can't bring an abuser to justice if their child says nothing about it.
I know that if one of my sisters got molested or even fondled, they would have told our Dad, and God help the offender.
Of course it isn't a child or young ladies responsibility to bring about justice, but I don't know why they wouldn't spill the beans to a parent they trust and rely on them to handle it.
Perhaps they just feel ashamed that they were violated? Feel guilty, don't think they'd be believed, or don't want others to know or feel sorry for them? Its a psychological puzzle.
But secrecy is a big part of the problem, because you can't resolve a hidden crime.
You're forgetting that a normal response to a child's nasty worker accusation is that they will (1) accuse the child of lying, and/or (2) forbid the child to speak about it, and possibly (3) punish the child in some manner. If you don't get this, you probably had especially good parents growing up. I would go further... If you don't get this, you have scant understanding of the issue being discussed. Children have been maimed for life because of the actions and inactions of workers over the years. The testimony of these three women describes the problem quite well: voicesforthetruth.org/who-we-are/An extract... My father Steve was a Worker from 1972-1983. He spent many years in Mexico, Arizona, and California. The September before I was born, my father, Steve, was escorted by three men in the Meetings (including Eldon Tenniswood) to the home of Sheri’s parents Dave and Mary Jo VanDermyden to be confronted about his abuse. Eldon Tenniswood agreed to go to every home to make sure there were no more victims, and Steve agreed to pay for Sheri’s therapy. None of these things happened, and Steve went on to have Meetings in his home until just a few weeks ago. I began putting the pieces together and wrote a letter in 2020 calling out the abuse to all of dozens of family members including my father and mother only to be victim shamed and ostracized. Out of the entire family, only my Grandma Joyce Shay has stood up to Steve’s actions. Sheri and I met for the first time in 2022 and began working on a criminal and civil case. We started speaking to each person involved in both of our cases. During that process, we were referred by a CSA lawyer in Florida to one of the top private investigators in the nation, Cynthia Liles. She also grew up going to Meetings, and we began putting all the puzzle pieces together and speaking to people involved in our case. We spoke to Rob Newman, Ed Alexander, Harold Hilton, and countless relatives. Each of them skirted responsibility to anywhere but the Workers. No one reported the abuse and nothing was done. Steve confessed to Sheri’s molestation abuse in 1987 and again in December of 2022. On October 7, 2022, Wendy Rohs admitted to me that she took me to the pediatrician after repeated bladder infections and rashes and that I was sexually abused by Ralph Poesnecker, an elder in the Truth, and the same man who sexually abused another member of my family. The Overseers and Workers knew of this and, again, no one reported the crime. Ralph is dead but went to Meetings and was an Elder until his death. Sheri and I called Jeff Thayer (overseer of Minnesota) a few weeks ago, and we asked that he not allow Steve around children in the Meetings. Jeff temporarily removed Meeting from his home, and as of Friday, March 24, 2023, Steve is back in Meetings with children. Jeff Thayer took Meeting out of Steve Rohs’s home and then let him back into Meetings because on Friday, March 24, 2023, he said no law enforcement had arrested Steve.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 16:32:41 GMT -5
From what I can tell it was directed at Bob not chinesewhispers. Don't let the Queen of Broken records confuse you. The apology was the right thing to do, and commendable. It went over your head. If directed at Bob I would've agreed... That went over your head...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 16:33:36 GMT -5
Do you need to go take your drugs? Lay off. Attacking chinesewhispers is not a good look ever. You have no idea what they have gone through and this question is just disgusting. update: I see reading further in this thread that you have apologized. Thank you. It was bob it was directed at...
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 16:35:32 GMT -5
The apology was the right thing to do, and commendable. It went over your head. If directed at Bob I would've agreed... That went over your head... You should be ashamed that your church's response to CSA has been so appalling. The last thing you should be doing is disrespecting the mental health of a victim.
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 16:36:08 GMT -5
Lay off. Attacking chinesewhispers is not a good look ever. You have no idea what they have gone through and this question is just disgusting. update: I see reading further in this thread that you have apologized. Thank you. It was bob it was directed at... Still going over your head.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 13, 2023 16:39:43 GMT -5
Hi Vinz, You stated the following in a recent post: 'However on the basis of being transparent I am not law enforcement but have trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T.' You are obviously a major contributor of the information on this thread. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T. members?' Many thanks. Appreciate your post mountain! Let's see what Vinny comes up with! The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 16:46:03 GMT -5
If directed at Bob I would've agreed... That went over your head... You should be ashamed that your church's response to CSA has been so appalling. The last thing you should be doing is disrespecting the mental health of a victim. Is Bob a victim? Of what? Does he have mental health issues? Who isn't? My church? Have you left already? That actually would be a good thing...fence rider...
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Post by snow on Apr 13, 2023 16:46:24 GMT -5
Lay off. Attacking chinesewhispers is not a good look ever. You have no idea what they have gone through and this question is just disgusting. update: I see reading further in this thread that you have apologized. Thank you. It was bob it was directed at... They were referring to Bob when they asked if they had taken their drugs? That's not at all what I thought. They asked chinesewhispers a question and when they didn't answer they hassled for a couple of posts. The one about drugs was the last straw for me. chinesewhispers replied to butterfingers that their response wasn't directed to butterfingers, but go ahead and post to your hearts desire. butterfingers response thanks I will, thanks for your permission. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said have an actual response Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butter fingers said wow it's been awhile for someone so invested in this. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said Do you need to take your drugs. So I don't see Bob's name anywhere in that exchange. Then I read that butterfingers responded to a post that told them it wasn't right to attack chinesewhispers and butterfingers agreed and apologized.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 16:46:29 GMT -5
It was bob it was directed at... Still going over your head. Look in the mirror...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 16:50:16 GMT -5
It was bob it was directed at... They were referring to Bob when they asked if they had taken their drugs? That's not at all what I thought. They asked chinesewhispers a question and when they didn't answer they hassled for a couple of posts. The one about drugs was the last straw for me. chinesewhispers replied to butterfingers that their response wasn't directed to butterfingers, but go ahead and post to your hearts desire. butterfingers response thanks I will, thanks for your permission. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said have an actual response Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butter fingers said wow it's been awhile for someone so invested in this. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said Do you need to take your drugs. So I don't see Bob's name anywhere in that exchange. Then I read that butterfingers responded to a post that told them it wasn't right to attack chinesewhispers and butterfingers agreed and apologized. I remember the initial post, it was directed at Bob and it quoted Bob's comment not anyone else's...If anyone's paying attention the particular post now reads butterfingers to butterfingers, something went wrong (not unusual on proboards) and Bob's name was replaced...
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 13, 2023 16:57:28 GMT -5
Yes I am familiar with ACOA. I think it is the atmosphere of secrecy and cover ups that creates a lot of the dysfunction as well as doesn’t really address the heart of the problem. Easier to avoid it and call it being nice…. Jesus wasn’t always “nice”. I presumed you knew about it, but wanted to name it on this thread. When several years after leaving meetings, I landed with a therapist, she eventually shared with me that some things about my presentation made her think, "adult child of alcoholics," and suggested I might find the 12-step approach useful. I found a book, "The Secular Guide to the Twelve Steps" (back then, any mention of "God" was triggering to me), and ended up using it as a rough framework for my therapy. Steps 4 and 5 were terrifying, and ultimately incredibly useful towards learning to forgive myself for being human, and in turn, learning to forgive others for being human, including the ancestors who brought my family into the 2x2s. Thanks, matisse! Sometimes the hardest person to honestly face is ourselves. But we need to. Also, I think we need to honestly face ourselves before we can take on facing other things in a thorough manner. There are obviously some things that need to be rooted out. I think perhaps those with something to hide are less likely to address the problem of SA. This is why it's been going on for so long and hasn't been addressed adequately. This question seems to come up a lot: "Why didn't you do anything?" (to stop it,etc) Well, many simply didn't know about some of the inner workings and cover ups. But I do think there are those that did. It's sorta like this: People who don't report things to the cops don't want the cops coming around and asking questions of them because they might have something to hide from the cops too. Happens.
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Post by snow on Apr 13, 2023 17:03:53 GMT -5
They were referring to Bob when they asked if they had taken their drugs? That's not at all what I thought. They asked chinesewhispers a question and when they didn't answer they hassled for a couple of posts. The one about drugs was the last straw for me. chinesewhispers replied to butterfingers that their response wasn't directed to butterfingers, but go ahead and post to your hearts desire. butterfingers response thanks I will, thanks for your permission. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said have an actual response Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butter fingers said wow it's been awhile for someone so invested in this. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said Do you need to take your drugs. So I don't see Bob's name anywhere in that exchange. Then I read that butterfingers responded to a post that told them it wasn't right to attack chinesewhispers and butterfingers agreed and apologized. I remember the initial post, it was directed at Bob and it quoted Bob's comment not anyone else's...If anyone's paying attention the particular post now reads butterfingers to butterfingers, something went wrong (not unusual on proboards) and Bob's name was replaced... chinesewhispers post was in every one of those posts that were butterfingers to butterfinger. I guess butterfinger will have to tell us who they apologized to because I still think it was to chinesewhispers. Bob didn't even post on page 44 that I can see.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 13, 2023 17:08:30 GMT -5
Do you need to go take your drugs? Lay off. Attacking chinesewhispers is not a good look ever. You have no idea what they have gone through and this question is just disgusting. update: I see reading further in this thread that you have apologized. Thank you. Thx for your input Snow. This reminds of something a rape victim said once. "They won't believe me because I am mentally ill." She was sobbing when she said it. I thought it was so sad. I believed her and told her that. But, sadly there are many people who discount the mentally ill or anyone with "issues" as making it up. While it's true there have been false allegations, most victims are NOT MAKING IT UP, no matter what their frame of mind might be. Also, sadly, perpetrators will sometimes pick their victims based on how vulnerable they are and that can include those who have mental issues. And they think no one will believe them. They want to keep it a secret, so they will choose victims based on that. In this manner vulnerable adults like DD people are taken advantage of.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 13, 2023 17:13:20 GMT -5
Appreciate this clear display of your true colours, your calibre and character! The feeling is mutual, apart from the fact that I don't speak in some kind of disturbing creepy code, and would rather say it to you than about you. How about we end "the big lie" by coming clean about it at all conventions simultaneously this year. The burden of guilt will be lifted, and you won't have to fear the truth anymore. If they want to end the atmosphere of secrecy, this would be a good step.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2023 17:18:49 GMT -5
This is the model of sexual abuse
You're forgetting that a normal response to a child's nasty worker accusation is that they will (1) accuse the child of lying, and/or (2) forbid the child to speak about it, and possibly (3) punish the child in some manner. If you don't get this, you probably had especially good parents growing up. I would go further... If you don't get this, you have scant understanding of the issue being discussed. Children have been maimed for life because of the actions and inactions of workers over the years. The testimony of these three women describes the problem quite well: voicesforthetruth.org/who-we-are/An extract... My father Steve was a Worker from 1972-1983. He spent many years in Mexico, Arizona, and California. The September before I was born, my father, Steve, was escorted by three men in the Meetings (including Eldon Tenniswood) to the home of Sheri’s parents Dave and Mary Jo VanDermyden to be confronted about his abuse. Eldon Tenniswood agreed to go to every home to make sure there were no more victims, and Steve agreed to pay for Sheri’s therapy. None of these things happened, and Steve went on to have Meetings in his home until just a few weeks ago. I began putting the pieces together and wrote a letter in 2020 calling out the abuse to all of dozens of family members including my father and mother only to be victim shamed and ostracized. Out of the entire family, only my Grandma Joyce Shay has stood up to Steve’s actions. Sheri and I met for the first time in 2022 and began working on a criminal and civil case. We started speaking to each person involved in both of our cases. During that process, we were referred by a CSA lawyer in Florida to one of the top private investigators in the nation, Cynthia Liles. She also grew up going to Meetings, and we began putting all the puzzle pieces together and speaking to people involved in our case. We spoke to Rob Newman, Ed Alexander, Harold Hilton, and countless relatives. Each of them skirted responsibility to anywhere but the Workers. No one reported the abuse and nothing was done. Steve confessed to Sheri’s molestation abuse in 1987 and again in December of 2022. On October 7, 2022, Wendy Rohs admitted to me that she took me to the pediatrician after repeated bladder infections and rashes and that I was sexually abused by Ralph Poesnecker, an elder in the Truth, and the same man who sexually abused another member of my family. The Overseers and Workers knew of this and, again, no one reported the crime. Ralph is dead but went to Meetings and was an Elder until his death. Sheri and I called Jeff Thayer (overseer of Minnesota) a few weeks ago, and we asked that he not allow Steve around children in the Meetings. Jeff temporarily removed Meeting from his home, and as of Friday, March 24, 2023, Steve is back in Meetings with children. Jeff Thayer took Meeting out of Steve Rohs’s home and then let him back into Meetings because on Friday, March 24, 2023, he said no law enforcement had arrested Steve.
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 17:19:47 GMT -5
Hi Vinz, You stated the following in a recent post: 'However on the basis of being transparent I am not law enforcement but have trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T.' You are obviously a major contributor of the information on this thread. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T. members?' Many thanks. Appreciate your post mountain! Let's see what Vinny comes up with! The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?) Have you openly acknowledged that past response to CSA in the church has generally been appalling? If you have, I missed it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2023 17:20:34 GMT -5
The apology was the right thing to do, and commendable. It went over your head. If directed at Bob I would've agreed... That went over your head... Like Bob gives a flying f
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2023 17:21:23 GMT -5
It was bob it was directed at... Still going over your head. One of his tangents.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2023 17:27:30 GMT -5
It was bob it was directed at... They were referring to Bob when they asked if they had taken their drugs? That's not at all what I thought. They asked chinesewhispers a question and when they didn't answer they hassled for a couple of posts. The one about drugs was the last straw for me. chinesewhispers replied to butterfingers that their response wasn't directed to butterfingers, but go ahead and post to your hearts desire. butterfingers response thanks I will, thanks for your permission. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said have an actual response Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butter fingers said wow it's been awhile for someone so invested in this. Next post again with chinesewhispers post reflected butterfingers said Do you need to take your drugs. So I don't see Bob's name anywhere in that exchange. Then I read that butterfingers responded to a post that told them it wasn't right to attack chinesewhispers and butterfingers agreed and apologized. If it's drugs, maybe so. I consume 22 prescribed pills a day, and take as many as 15 injections monthly (all but 2 of them administered by myself). I live quite comfortably, and the only restrictions on my lifestyle are a few foods that aggravate diabetes. Bring it on.
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Post by mrdobalina on Apr 13, 2023 17:27:51 GMT -5
The feeling is mutual, apart from the fact that I don't speak in some kind of disturbing creepy code, and would rather say it to you than about you. How about we end "the big lie" by coming clean about it at all conventions simultaneously this year. The burden of guilt will be lifted, and you won't have to fear the truth anymore. If they want to end the atmosphere of secrecy, this would be a good step. I'm not kidding either. I don't think it would harm the church, it would be like taking a hot bath after a hard day's work. Anobody with an internet connection knows anyway, it's narccists that keep a lie going long after the game is up.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 13, 2023 17:36:08 GMT -5
For all those who criticised Wally for taking a loaded firearm to meetings, do any of you now fail to see the wisdom in it? I fail to see the wisdom of it. I would bet none of these offenses occurred during a meeting. Now, let's back up a step for those of us who are less clued in here. Did @wally really take a loaded firearm to meetings?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 13, 2023 17:53:59 GMT -5
The feeling is mutual, apart from the fact that I don't speak in some kind of disturbing creepy code, and would rather say it to you than about you. How about we end "the big lie" by coming clean about it at all conventions simultaneously this year. The burden of guilt will be lifted, and you won't have to fear the truth anymore. Thanks for this further confirmation of your true colours and character! 🤷♂️ Your moral high ground looks bloody shaky where I see you from.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 13, 2023 17:59:21 GMT -5
Thanks for this further confirmation of your true colours and character! 🤷♂️ Your moral high ground looks bloody shaky where I see you from. and yours with your posts: "You sure do fantasize a lot while you have your head buried in the kitty litter box.
I like the bit about the magic potion. Did you know that the biblical jesus could turn water into wine but not nails into noodles. He was very much a one trick pony.
Religion is the opiate for the masses. An enema would work well on them too
It looks to be if you want a lot of sex then become a worker.
I don't see any point in quoting your favourite book of mythology. It is full of immorality and anyone wanting to lead a decent life would have binned it long ago. This conversation would not be occurring if Bruer and the like had kept their pants on and been leading a decent life.
I don't take anyone seriously who believes in virgin birth. That includes you."
Do you feel you are taken seriously here? ?
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 18:24:04 GMT -5
The feeling is mutual, apart from the fact that I don't speak in some kind of disturbing creepy code, and would rather say it to you than about you. How about we end "the big lie" by coming clean about it at all conventions simultaneously this year. The burden of guilt will be lifted, and you won't have to fear the truth anymore. Thanks for this further confirmation of your true colours and character! 🤷♂️ It's impossible to have a mature discussion with people who resort to personal attacks instead of addressing the subject being discussed.
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Post by fixit on Apr 13, 2023 18:27:26 GMT -5
I fail to see the wisdom of it. I would bet none of these offenses occurred during a meeting. Now, let's back up a step for those of us who are less clued in here. Did @wally really take a loaded firearm to meetings? I hope Wally will explain why he is so insecure in his "Land of the Free" that he has to pack heat in meeting.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 13, 2023 18:34:56 GMT -5
Hi Vinz, You stated the following in a recent post: 'However on the basis of being transparent I am not law enforcement but have trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T.' You are obviously a major contributor of the information on this thread. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T. members?' Many thanks. Lets just say that I am highly specialized and they could not pass their course without passing mine as it is a key element in being on the high end of Law Enforcement. Being that here are so few that do what I do comparatively speaking I will not go into detail as to remain anonymous. I hope you understand that. What I have said has came to pass and regardless of what others may say here I gave a glimpse of the breadth of the investigation and it is only growing. This should give the victims hope as there words which have been silenced for so long are now being heard.
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 13, 2023 18:54:57 GMT -5
Hi Vinz, You stated the following in a recent post: 'However on the basis of being transparent I am not law enforcement but have trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T.' You are obviously a major contributor of the information on this thread. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T. members?' Many thanks. Appreciate your post mountain! Let's see what Vinny comes up with! The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?) Here we go again. I understood what Doyle has said. All you do is continue to cover for him. Keep it up. His words along with the words from many other letters contradict each other. The wording they use shows they know full well that crimes have been committed, the issues at hand, who has committed them and the standard operating procedure of silencing and shaming the victims and knowingly relocating the people that have committed these atrocities. The more you try to hide the truth about the truth the more it shows that you sir knowingly support an entire dispensation of molesters, knowingly support the silencing, shaming and shunning or ex-communication of the victims and NOTHING is done to the people that commit these crimes. That's what you're trying to cover for. That's what you are supporting. What have I said that has not came to pass? The longer this goes on the deeper the will see the rape and pedophilia infection and the higher up you will see that the infections have spread. I don't blame you for trying to make me go away, I don't blame you for trying to cast shade on the things I say. In a weird way it shows you have strong convictions. They just happened to be placed on covering up these vile crimes and shunning and shaming the victims then going back to your routine. What proof do you have that Doyle was going to turn in the laptop prior to speaking to the private investigator? What proof do you have that he was going to say anything about the discoveries he made himself before the visit from the private investigator? Now I await your answer to these questions. Have a good day sir.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 13, 2023 19:05:48 GMT -5
I fail to see the wisdom of it. I would bet none of these offenses occurred during a meeting. Now, let's back up a step for those of us who are less clued in here. Did @wally really take a loaded firearm to meetings? Wally has led us to believe just that. I wouldn't worry about him using it, though. He was in a restaurant one time where someone appeared to be a "bad" guy with a gun, and Wally fled the scene.
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