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Post by believingjesus on Apr 9, 2023 21:19:11 GMT -5
Your post gives expression of your understanding of Jesus Christ. He's had plenty such experience. 🤷♂️ Judas committed suicide …… Tru Dat ! The account for Judas’s death in Matthew 27 began when Jesus was led away to the cross. Judas saw the result of his actions and “was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priest and elders,” (Matthew 27:3). Judas confessed, but the chief priests and elders didn’t care. “What is that to us?” they replied in verse 4. “So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself” (Matthew 27:5). I’m not sure that this is how Judas died. I could go with Acts which says “Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” — Acts 1:18-19 This is a contradiction for which christians once again go through all sorts of contortions to attempt to harmonize. And once again, to the objective, honest observer they fail (a person who has hung his/herself cannot fall headlong). Although I don’t believe for a second that these passages are truly attributable to the men they are attributed to (most bible scholars don’t), you’d think christians (not wanting to tell a lie) would say that either Matthew or Luke (or both) are misremembering what happened.
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Post by Dan on Apr 10, 2023 0:00:08 GMT -5
Judas committed suicide …… Tru Dat ! The account for Judas’s death in Matthew 27 began when Jesus was led away to the cross. Judas saw the result of his actions and “was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priest and elders,” (Matthew 27:3). Judas confessed, but the chief priests and elders didn’t care. “What is that to us?” they replied in verse 4. “So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself” (Matthew 27:5). I’m not sure that this is how Judas died. I could go with Acts which says “Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” — Acts 1:18-19 This is a contradiction for which christians once again go through all sorts of contortions to attempt to harmonize. And once again, to the objective, honest observer they fail (a person who has hung his/herself cannot fall headlong). Although I don’t believe for a second that these passages are truly attributable to the men they are attributed to (most bible scholars don’t), you’d think christians (not wanting to tell a lie) would say that either Matthew or Luke (or both) are misremembering what happened.
"And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)
"Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).
Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a spike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct.
Papias, an early Church father who supported this, said that Judas hung himself upon an impaling stick.
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Post by chuck on Apr 10, 2023 1:31:31 GMT -5
What do you suppose Jesus actually said all night?, most people would be repeating themselves after 10mins...... Your post gives expression of your understanding of Jesus Christ. He's had plenty such experience. 🤷♂️ Why can't you just answer it straight?.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 3:20:56 GMT -5
I’m not sure that this is how Judas died. I could go with Acts which says “Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” — Acts 1:18-19 This is a contradiction for which christians once again go through all sorts of contortions to attempt to harmonize. And once again, to the objective, honest observer they fail (a person who has hung his/herself cannot fall headlong). Although I don’t believe for a second that these passages are truly attributable to the men they are attributed to (most bible scholars don’t), you’d think christians (not wanting to tell a lie) would say that either Matthew or Luke (or both) are misremembering what happened.
"And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)
"Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).
Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a spike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct.
Papias, an early Church father who supported this, said that Judas hung himself upon an impaling stick.
Oh Oh those darn worker’s , go figure .
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Post by mountain on Apr 10, 2023 3:59:30 GMT -5
I’m not sure that this is how Judas died. I could go with Acts which says “Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” — Acts 1:18-19 This is a contradiction for which christians once again go through all sorts of contortions to attempt to harmonize. And once again, to the objective, honest observer they fail (a person who has hung his/herself cannot fall headlong). Although I don’t believe for a second that these passages are truly attributable to the men they are attributed to (most bible scholars don’t), you’d think christians (not wanting to tell a lie) would say that either Matthew or Luke (or both) are misremembering what happened. "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)
"Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).
Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a spike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct. Papias, an early Church father who supported this, said that Judas hung himself upon an impaling stick.
Why can't they use plain English and just say....'he done himself in?'
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 10, 2023 4:07:21 GMT -5
Your post gives expression of your understanding of Jesus Christ. He's had plenty such experience. 🤷♂️ Why can't you just answer it straight?. Your answer expresses that you think very differently about Jesus to how Christians think about Jesus and his praying all night before choosing his disciples. Is that clear enough?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 8:49:40 GMT -5
Jim Holt letter to NC, VA and MD workers and elders . Dear Staff and elders
Elders, please share this with any in your meeting that you would know that are distressed about these things.
Many of you have heard about the sad and distressful situation that arose in the Northwest about Dean Bruer. Dean passed away a few months ago, but evidence has come to light that he was living an immoral deceitful life.
We are thankful that the NW workers who are responsible for dealing with the matter are actively doing so, and seeking to be helpful as they can.
Some here are wondering what we are doing in our area to seek to prevent that from happening here.
Several years ago some of the older brothers here in the eastern states attended some seminars and then held "safety meetings" with the different staffs. The purpose of this was to help us be aware of the dangers of sexual abuse against children or adults, and our responsibilities of reporting such to the authorities.
We also learned about things pertaining to boundaries and safe behavior.
We also want adults to feel free to talk to us if they are a victim of sexual abuse by a worker or one of the friends. We feel it is important for these things to be dwelt with.
I continue to require our staff to take an on-line "Ministry Safe" course every two years or so. My last certificate is dated June 18, 2021, so I plan to soon take the course again.
One verse that has often been a help to me is what Jesus told Peter in John 21:22, "Follow thou Me". Another verse I am thankful for is: 2 Timothy 2:19,
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
I want you to know that if there are any of you that would like to talk with me I am willing to do so. Some may wish to talk with a worker on the staff that you are more acquainted with. Our preference is for a face to face meeting, but we would accept a phone call as second best.
Your brother,
Jim Holt
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 8:58:29 GMT -5
Really Just really ! I would like to point out if people just continue to talk with worker’s , perhaps the victims are being stopped from talking to authorities !
We also want adults to feel free to talk to us if they are a victim of sexual abuse by a worker or one of the friends. We feel it is important for these things to be dwelt with
I want you to know that if there are any of you that would like to talk with me I am willing to do so. Some may wish to talk with a worker on the staff that you are more acquainted with. Our preference is for a face to face meeting, but we would accept a phone call as second best. Please don’t report to WORKERS
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Post by chuck on Apr 10, 2023 9:01:58 GMT -5
Why can't you just answer it straight?. Your answer expresses that you think very differently about Jesus to how Christians think about Jesus and his praying all night before choosing his disciples. Is that clear enough? You were/are not very clear at all, thats why I asked what you thought he said all night?, if you could give me an example that may make it clearer.
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Post by believingjesus on Apr 10, 2023 9:05:58 GMT -5
I’m not sure that this is how Judas died. I could go with Acts which says “Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness and falling headlong he burst open in the middle, and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.” — Acts 1:18-19 This is a contradiction for which christians once again go through all sorts of contortions to attempt to harmonize. And once again, to the objective, honest observer they fail (a person who has hung his/herself cannot fall headlong). Although I don’t believe for a second that these passages are truly attributable to the men they are attributed to (most bible scholars don’t), you’d think christians (not wanting to tell a lie) would say that either Matthew or Luke (or both) are misremembering what happened.
"And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)
"Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out" (Acts 1:18).
Ancient terminology did not recognize “hanging” just as hanging from a rope, but as hanging on anything. For instance, it is said accurately that Jesus was “hung” on a tree, even though he was nailed there. I believe Judas hung himself not with a rope around his neck, but by impaling himself on a spike causing his intestines to spill-out which in ancient terminology would have been referred to as “Judas hanging himself.” The bible isn't specific, but it says Judas fell headlong, not as a person falling feet-first from a rope. So its likely he secured a spear into the ground, piled up some stones, and jumped/fell headfirst, thus making Matthew and Acts correct.
Papias, an early Church father who supported this, said that Judas hung himself upon an impaling stick.
I do find your point about Jesus being hung on a tree interesting but I’ve always viewed this as an expression. In a sense he was hung though because he was nailed to a cross and then lifted or “hung” up. The fact that it uses tree rather than cross also supports that it’s an expression because he wasn’t literally hung on a tree either. As for Judas I respectfully disagree. What you’ve proposed seems like a stretch (to say the least) in an attempt to reconcile two disparate accounts of an event.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 9:10:02 GMT -5
Not to sure why this came into my email ……….. March 6, 2021 Dear fellow workers, Please share one copy of this letter with each elder in your field. It is important to be open, honest, and transparent regarding the recent occurrences of negative impact that have evolved in the past while. Please ask the elders not to make copies of this letter or forward it digitally but if anyone comes to them with concerns they can discuss it verbally. To avoid speculation these matters to which we refer pertain to the actions of Walter and Aaron only. In disseminating this information, strive to use the language as it is written herein. While each have a right to know the facts, discretion must be exercised as these matters are now under investigation by the appropriate legal authorities and we all have a legal obligation not to interfere with the process. The following information can be shared. Currently Allegations against Walter involving children are being investigated by the appropriate legal authorities and he is willingly cooperating Allegations against Aaron concerning the viewing of child pornography are in the hands of legal authorities. Both men have been removed from the Worker's List and will not be involved in any Gospel work. Walter resides in a private senior home in Wainwright, Alberta. Aaron is working as an electrician and resides with his parents in FSI. The law provides excellent provisions to ensure for the safety of all children. Moving Forward AlI BC Staff are enrolled in a Sexual Abuse Awareness Education course. The BC Staff will be educated and understand the contents of BC Child Protection laws. All workers in BC will be provided with the Worker's Code of Conduct, and will read it, understand it, and adhere to it fully and completely. This policy will be reviewed annually. All workers will be issued a copy of the Child Safe Policy. Any victims will be encouraged to seek help from the appropriate Provincial authorities. All BC staff will report any suspected child abuse to the appropriate authorities. We appreciate your understanding and help in this matter and as further factual information comes to bear; we will update our lines of communication. Sincerely, Paul & Merlin
Aaron was sentenced in January 2023 . Will dig into Walter later ……………
THOSE FAMOUS WORDS DO NOT SHARE
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 10, 2023 10:24:10 GMT -5
Jim Holt letter to NC, VA and MD workers and elders . Dear Staff and elders Elders, please share this with any in your meeting that you would know that are distressed about these things. Many of you have heard about the sad and distressful situation that arose in the Northwest about Dean Bruer. Dean passed away a few months ago, but evidence has come to light that he was living an immoral deceitful life. We are thankful that the NW workers who are responsible for dealing with the matter are actively doing so, and seeking to be helpful as they can. Some here are wondering what we are doing in our area to seek to prevent that from happening here. Several years ago some of the older brothers here in the eastern states attended some seminars and then held "safety meetings" with the different staffs. The purpose of this was to help us be aware of the dangers of sexual abuse against children or adults, and our responsibilities of reporting such to the authorities. We also learned about things pertaining to boundaries and safe behavior. We also want adults to feel free to talk to us if they are a victim of sexual abuse by a worker or one of the friends. We feel it is important for these things to be dwelt with. I continue to require our staff to take an on-line "Ministry Safe" course every two years or so. My last certificate is dated June 18, 2021, so I plan to soon take the course again. One verse that has often been a help to me is what Jesus told Peter in John 21:22, "Follow thou Me". Another verse I am thankful for is: 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." I want you to know that if there are any of you that would like to talk with me I am willing to do so. Some may wish to talk with a worker on the staff that you are more acquainted with. Our preference is for a face to face meeting, but we would accept a phone call as second best. Your brother, Jim Holt I actually quite like this letter. It is matter-of-fact, straight forward, and packed with useful information. Perhaps the workers have finally got the memo - anything they write down IS going to end up on the internet. And they are playing to a tough crowd - ranging from the sychophants, to the faithful, to the bemused, to the scornful - and everything in between. There is no remedy for it, other than a whole lot of honesty and forthrightness. You'll get respect for it. And if you are ever tempted to shade it - or craft a narrative - you may fool some, but never all.
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Post by verna on Apr 10, 2023 10:28:17 GMT -5
Jim Holt letter to NC, VA and MD workers and elders . Dear Staff and elders Elders, please share this with any in your meeting that you would know that are distressed about these things. Many of you have heard about the sad and distressful situation that arose in the Northwest about Dean Bruer. Dean passed away a few months ago, but evidence has come to light that he was living an immoral deceitful life. We are thankful that the NW workers who are responsible for dealing with the matter are actively doing so, and seeking to be helpful as they can. Some here are wondering what we are doing in our area to seek to prevent that from happening here. Several years ago some of the older brothers here in the eastern states attended some seminars and then held "safety meetings" with the different staffs. The purpose of this was to help us be aware of the dangers of sexual abuse against children or adults, and our responsibilities of reporting such to the authorities. We also learned about things pertaining to boundaries and safe behavior. We also want adults to feel free to talk to us if they are a victim of sexual abuse by a worker or one of the friends. We feel it is important for these things to be dwelt with. I continue to require our staff to take an on-line "Ministry Safe" course every two years or so. My last certificate is dated June 18, 2021, so I plan to soon take the course again. One verse that has often been a help to me is what Jesus told Peter in John 21:22, "Follow thou Me". Another verse I am thankful for is: 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are His. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." I want you to know that if there are any of you that would like to talk with me I am willing to do so. Some may wish to talk with a worker on the staff that you are more acquainted with. Our preference is for a face to face meeting, but we would accept a phone call as second best. Your brother, Jim Holt I actually quite like this letter. It is matter-of-fact, straight forward, and packed with useful information. Perhaps the workers have finally got the memo - anything they write down IS going to end up on the internet. And they are playing to a tough crowd - ranging from the sychophants, to the faithful, to the bemused, to the scornful - and everything in between. There is no remedy for it, other than a whole lot of honesty and forthrightness. You'll get respect for it. And if you are ever tempted to shade it - craft a narrative - you may fool some, but never all. What concerns me is the emphasis on talking to the workers! Rather than reporting to authorities. The workers have let us down imo. So this to me is just more “there there…”
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 10:31:47 GMT -5
YES DO NOT RUN TO THE WORKERS They can stop victim’s from going to law enforcement .
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 10, 2023 10:36:01 GMT -5
I actually quite like this letter. It is matter-of-fact, straight forward, and packed with useful information. Perhaps the workers have finally got the memo - anything they write down IS going to end up on the internet. And they are playing to a tough crowd - ranging from the sychophants, to the faithful, to the bemused, to the scornful - and everything in between. There is no remedy for it, other than a whole lot of honesty and forthrightness. You'll get respect for it. And if you are ever tempted to shade it - craft a narrative - you may fool some, but never all. What concerns me is the emphasis on talking to the workers! Rather than reporting to authorities. The workers have let us down imo. So this to me is just more “there there…” You're right. I missed the absence of reporting to proper authorities, I thought it was covered. But no, it was in the letter posted previous to this one: BTW, I don't think this represents a huge shift in perspective or approach, just that they are picking up needed communication skills.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 10:37:36 GMT -5
THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE CSA CLASSES
Aaron was caught in 2019 I think . However don’t wanna stir up some stress and anxiety in me . I will post later !
March 6, 2021 Dear fellow workers, Please share one copy of this letter with each elder in your field.
AlI BC Staff are enrolled in a Sexual Abuse Awareness Education course. The BC Staff will be educated and understand the contents of BC Child Protection laws. SO WHY DOES IT CONTINUE ? I will post when I find it in the Dean mess . Attendance is NOT MANDATORY !!!!
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Dean Bruer
Apr 10, 2023 10:55:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 10:55:35 GMT -5
Site logo image Wings for Truth Letter from Wayne to WA, N ID and AK friends March 2023 wingsfortruth2 Mar 29 Please share with your field including the letter from Doyle that is attached. Dear WA, N ID and AK friends, We are very sorry and apologize to you for delaying in sharing information regarding Dean Bruer’s unacceptable secret life. We understand the hurt and pain many of you have felt, receiving the news from other sources. We are including his letter again as an attachment, so that you are receiving it directly from us, and so you will understand that we have nothing to hide. We plan to be quicker in sharing news in the future, though we know we can never beat social media. We want to be transparent and accountable, and for you to feel free to communicate with us. Many of you have been very helpful to us already. Thank you for your prayers and caring advice/help/patience to us and with us. One thing we want to make very clear, is that if anyone has felt uncomfortable with any of the workers you’ve been around (including us), we want you to feel at liberty to share that with us, or other workers or friends that you trust. Also, if anyone is a victim of abuse from a worker, elder or anyone connected to our fellowship…the police should be contacted, as this is a legal issue. We don’t want to have a culture among our fellowship that is conducive for predators to work within. It was discovered a while after Dean died that he had accessed a porn site while he was at the Motel where he died. At Boring #2, a lady went to Doyle and spoke of a relationship she had with Dean for 2 or 3 years that included physical sex. A 2nd lady victim surfaced in October. After extensive therapy that covered quite a while, there were accusations of child molestation. After Doyle’s letter was communicated, a 3rd lady victim surfaced, and again there was talk of child molestation when she was quite young. As far as is known, all the issues took place in the MT and OR areas, so Doyle is the one that initiated communication, along with Scott. The web sites and internet picked it up from Doyle’s communication. Since Dean was dead, Doyle asked people to remain confidential until he and Scott were finished communicating in-person. There was never the thought that it would be hid or confidential after last Thursday. Communication was not in response to an investigator or the internet. The internet and emails were much quicker than phone calls and visits. A more accurate account of the timeline will be sent out later once it can be compiled. Another thing that has recently surfaced is from a friends’ group discussion meeting last night in the N Seattle field. At one point in the meeting a lady spoke up. She told of personally talking to a now adult woman, who had interaction at the age of 11 with Mark Huddle. This woman said that Mark invited her to sit on his lap while he read stories to her, in a way which she felt was awkward and inappropriate. We do not have all the facts, and want to be slow to jump to conclusions, but we don’t want to hide what is open and circulating either. Mark is aware of the accusation against him and feels it best that we write and send this email. So... the future... . He was likely not professing, but it was good council, and he took it. It seems like we need all the help we can get from multiple sources. Other steps will also be taken as they become clear. People should feel safe and be safe... sisters, friends, and children. Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died, I saw also the Lord sitting upon his throne, high and lifted up. There is a Lord high and lifted up, and He is the one that is safe to keep our focus on. With much care, Your brothers, Brian and Wayne These very lines say ………. All the workers on our staff will take a “Ministry Safe” course. Moses took council from his father- in-law about learning to delegate Yet in others letters is says they have . That was written on March 30
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Dean Bruer
Apr 10, 2023 11:11:58 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 11:11:58 GMT -5
THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE CSA CLASSES
Aaron was caught in 2019 I think .
March 6, 2021 Dear fellow workers, Please share one copy of this letter with each elder in your field.
AlI BC Staff are enrolled in a Sexual Abuse Awareness Education course. The BC Staff will be educated and understand the contents of BC Child Protection laws. SO WHY DOES IT CONTINUE ?
• Programs such as the “California Child Abuse Mandated Reporter Training” will help us to understand, recognize, and prevent such problems.
Thankfully, we are few generations away now from the generations that wanted to keep sexual abuse hush hush; even parents of children who confided in them, told them to never speak of it again. Rape victims and sexual abuse victims find it hard to come forward
In the process of a few days, all the brothers on the West Coast, including our area, will be taking the “Ministry Safe” program or something similar to it .
So... the future...
Letter from 'Brian & Wayne' to WA, N ID and AK Friends, March 2023 All the workers on our staff will take a “Ministry Safe” course
So many different answers , hard to keep track .
These very lines say ………. All the workers on our staff will take a “Ministry Safe” course. Moses took council from his father- in-law about learning to delegate
Yet in others letters is says they have . That was written on March 30
Workers are ENCOURAGED (so they don’t have to) report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) . I didn’t realize that you could give permission for the friends to report .
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 10, 2023 11:36:50 GMT -5
Lots of focus on mandatory training and education...as there should be but I think people get over thier skis thinking that will move the needle much.
The likelihood of being a CSA victim continue to be far more impacted by family structure (single parent vs two parent for instance) and socioeconomic status than by whatever faith system you participate in. There is something titillating about CSA within faith traditions though...and they can be spectacularly damaging so it is still important to focus on them. People in a position of authority, moral or otherwise, like teachers, coaches and clergy are overwhelmingly positive influences on peoples lives but when it goes sideways...it is sooooo damaging.
The references to broader CSA statistics will not help much in addressing the particular causes of it within the 2x2 framework. Because of the small sample size, I imagine there is no statistically significant study of this but does anybody have any background data on abuse within strong modern faith systems vs background levels? I know the data on socio-economic level and abuse is very clear....as the level goes down...abuse goes way up. Maybe you could draw a correlation to fundamentalist islamic areas? It's kind of apples and oranges since the background culture is very different as well but I remember hearing how rampant CSA is in some of those communities....though that could be just me mis-remembering.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 10, 2023 11:41:43 GMT -5
Someone is collecting that data regarding 2X2 stats . In a different group . Will be interesting to see .
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 10, 2023 12:03:09 GMT -5
Your answer expresses that you think very differently about Jesus to how Christians think about Jesus and his praying all night before choosing his disciples. Is that clear enough? 2 You were/are not very clear at all, thats why I asked what you thought he said all night?, if you could give me an example that may make it clearer. How clearly can someone who enjoys a good steak explain to a vegetarian how good it tastes? Same as a Christian seeking to explain to you about Jesus praying all night.....you won't and don't want to understand. 🤷♂️😋
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 10, 2023 13:27:51 GMT -5
THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE CSA CLASSES AlI BC Staff are enrolled in a Sexual Abuse Awareness Education course. The BC Staff will be educated and understand the contents of BC Child Protection laws. SO WHY DOES IT CONTINUE ? I will post when I find it in the Dean mess . Attendance is NOT MANDATORY !!!! Why does it continue? That's the six million dollar question, I suppose. Abuse is abuse is abuse. Abusers don't just stop. They have to be stopped and/or prevented from being in situations in which they could abuse. MH is not a convicted sex offender, but if he was he would be under lawful supervision by someone trained to do so to keep the community safe. They need to be held accountable and there needs to be adequate oversight. What also really REALLY concerns me......is he was the overseer, for God's sake....so if someone came to him with concerns about inappropriate behavior in the church he might be less likely to address it because of his own problem. So, things don't get addressed and dealt with thoroughly and appropriately. He would be the last person that should be dealing with these issues. So.......it continues.... It also continues because people in general will not take a stand and take action when abuse issues come up. This is a pervasive problem in our society in general. People just look the other way or bury their head in the sand.....sadly, it's the PARENTS that probably do this more than anyone...... It continues because it's ones with authority in some cases doing the abusing.....this is particularly hard for victims....it's more difficulty to come forward when it's someone with authority that's abused them. It continues because people "cover" for abusers and make excuses for them. It continues because those with sexually deviant problems are like alcoholics. They don't just "get better" and never offend anymore. Even if they really want to get better. It's a psychological disease. It continues because some of the workers and some of the friends think they are above the law and don't want to involve outside authorities. They want to keep it in the Kingdom. A good example of that is the Bob Ingram crime in AK. NO ONE pressed charges. It's my understanding one of the victims chose not to. But, she should have been encouraged to, instead of just keeping it in the Kingdom and learn to forgive. So, then: What is true accountability? There is a lack of accountability and proper oversight, IMO. People need to step up. You need to have hierarchy in every group, but who holds the overseers accountable? How does one hold an overseer accountable? It continues because people don't think you can question authority. It continues because people will not speak up.
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Post by snow on Apr 10, 2023 13:37:52 GMT -5
I actually quite like this letter. It is matter-of-fact, straight forward, and packed with useful information. Perhaps the workers have finally got the memo - anything they write down IS going to end up on the internet. And they are playing to a tough crowd - ranging from the sychophants, to the faithful, to the bemused, to the scornful - and everything in between. There is no remedy for it, other than a whole lot of honesty and forthrightness. You'll get respect for it. And if you are ever tempted to shade it - craft a narrative - you may fool some, but never all. What concerns me is the emphasis on talking to the workers! Rather than reporting to authorities. The workers have let us down imo. So this to me is just more “there there…” That part definitely bothers me too. I would rather see the workers tell the friends that if they are survivors of sexual assault the first people they should be reporting to are the authorities and once they have done that if they feel the need to talk to the workers for support that they are invited to do that.
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Post by verna on Apr 10, 2023 13:55:16 GMT -5
You were/are not very clear at all, thats why I asked what you thought he said all night?, if you could give me an example that may make it clearer. How clearly can someone who enjoys a good steak explain to a vegetarian how good it tastes? Same as a Christian seeking to explain to you about Jesus praying all night.....you won't and don't want to understand. 🤷♂️😋 I have a lot of trouble with this explanation. I, as well as many on this board I’m sure, did our damnedest to “get” the Christian thing. So suggesting we don’t want to is fairly annoying.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 10, 2023 13:59:52 GMT -5
Workers are ENCOURAGED (so they don’t have to) report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) . I didn’t realize that you could give permission for the friends to report . No one needs permission to make a report. It amazes me though, how citizens in general just look the other way when they have knowledge of a crime or suspect a crime. That mentality is a huge ailment of our society and partly why we have such a problem with crime. People have this attitude of well as long as it's not in my backyard and I am personally safe I don't have to do anything. But, really, one can be charged as an accessory to a crime in some instances. So, this is very serious. It's also about co-dependency. Whether intentional or not, people can enable abusers either through inaction or through various actions. People may not even realize they are enabling, but they are. It takes a lot of awareness to not be an enabler. But it also takes strength and fortitude.
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Post by snow on Apr 10, 2023 14:01:38 GMT -5
How clearly can someone who enjoys a good steak explain to a vegetarian how good it tastes? Same as a Christian seeking to explain to you about Jesus praying all night.....you won't and don't want to understand. 🤷♂️😋 I have a lot of trouble with this explanation. I, as well as many on this board I’m sure, did our damnedest to “get” the Christian thing. So suggesting we don’t want to is fairly annoying. That's fair. And, concluding that Chuck doesn't really want to know so it would be a waste of time to enlighten him, means you get to pick and choose who you decide is worthy of a conversation. Which of course you do, but preaching to the choir is easy but it's not the way to bring people that disagree with you into enlightenment.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 10, 2023 14:21:19 GMT -5
How clearly can someone who enjoys a good steak explain to a vegetarian how good it tastes? Same as a Christian seeking to explain to you about Jesus praying all night.....you won't and don't want to understand. 🤷♂️😋 I have a lot of trouble with this explanation. I, as well as many on this board I’m sure, did our damnedest to “get” the Christian thing. So suggesting we don’t want to is fairly annoying. Hold your horses Verna! Where in my post am I referring to/addressing 'the many on this board'? My post is to Chuck in a response to what he said This has got nothing to do with Dean Bruer, /is off subject. I am guilty of responding to the comment that Chuck initially made that is inane to Christians. "What do you suppose Jesus actually said all night?, most people would be repeating themselves after 10mins......"
If you wish to discuss the matter further with me you are welcome to pm me! or start a new thread about it!
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Post by verna on Apr 10, 2023 14:31:37 GMT -5
I have a lot of trouble with this explanation. I, as well as many on this board I’m sure, did our damnedest to “get” the Christian thing. So suggesting we don’t want to is fairly annoying. Hold your horses Verna! Where in my post am I referring to/addressing 'the many on this board'? My post is to Chuck in a response to what he said Seemed pretty generalized to me. Maybe it’s just my experience with many Christians making such claims. Apologies if I misunderstood you
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