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Post by mountain on Apr 6, 2023 5:31:10 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Excellent advice, but I noticed that you, along with many others, have downgraded LORD!!! That’s a common 2x2 misunderstanding of the significance of the word LORD in KJV. Once you understand the significance of the word LORD, everything fits into place in scripture. The common way the word Lord is used, especially by 2x2’s, is idolatry. Our Parliament has a whole house full of Lords. You are welcome to every last one of them!
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 6, 2023 8:42:40 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Excellent advice, but I noticed that you, along with many others, have downgraded LORD!!! That’s a common 2x2 misunderstanding of the significance of the word LORD in KJV. Once you understand the significance of the word LORD, everything fits into place in scripture. The common way the word Lord is used, especially by 2x2’s, is idolatry. Do tell us the significance and how I downgraded it.
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Post by verna on Apr 6, 2023 9:45:25 GMT -5
In light of CSA/SA and other instances of abuse, what does this verse mean to you. Practically speaking. First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. This might be the very thing God is using to make the necessary changes. It doesn't mean that God consents in the actions, but he might be using it to purify. Just as God didn't consent with Judas, but he used it fulfill his will. But, that also might be me leaning on my own understanding. God knows all and therefore he is the only one with righteous judgement. We sit on here and pontificate, leaning on our own understanding. God's will will be done. We know that Jesus felt the need to purify and purge the temple, so he overthrew the tables. Maybe God is over throwing some tables right now. I am not placing blame on you personally but is this not the kind of willful blindness that created an atmosphere for db to be able to do what he did. I suspect leaning a bit more on our own understanding would be advisable. No?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 6, 2023 10:44:13 GMT -5
Apr 5 Dear Friends in Colorado, Utah and Eastern Nevada
I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all.
Jim Chafee and I are glad to be having meetings in the North Utah field. Domenic is on Special meetings in MO/AR. We are glad for some new ones that want to come and learn more about the bible and our friends that keep wanting to learn more about Jesus. It is still our desire to follow Jesus and to try to get others to do the same. We are glad we can still try to follow his example in the ministry. Thanks for helping us to make that possible.
I think several of you are aware of some things that happened in Oregon/Idaho last year. We have been made aware recently that Dean Bruer, who was in the ministry in Oregon and South Idaho until he died last year, was living a very immoral, dishonest, double life. We are very sorry about that and feel especially for his victims! The friends in the areas where he worked have been notified. Any others who have been a victim of abuse or inappropriate behavior have been encouraged to reach out for support & to seek professional help if needed. I don't think he ever worked in Colorado/Utah or visited here but of course with travel and friends moving around some of you would know of him or heard him speak in a meeting.
We are sorry for the trust that has been betrayed. A few people have asked what we can do to help prevent this from happening in the future. The workers in CO/UT have been doing some abuse awareness training for several years. All the staff are up to date on continuing education regarding recognizing & helping to prevent child sexual abuse. Workers are encouraged to report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) Workers have been encouraged to speak up if they witness or experience inappropriate behavior towards them or others, no matter who it is (Friends can do that too). I think we can help each other be accountable but also trust each other.
It was a sad day in the New Testament when Judas, who was among the 12 apostles, betrayed Jesus. This act did not make all of them bad. We just read recently in our studies that they all forsook him and fled. Yet those same 11 arose and turned again to Jesus and were kept by him to fulfill his will. I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong.
Your Brother
Titus
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 6, 2023 10:47:17 GMT -5
Really ? Did I read this right ?
I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all.
The victims are just not as important I guess ! Can we focus on the VICTIMS . Set up funds to help them ? Which was previously stated …………. This confused me as well…… Workers are ENCOURAGED (so they don’t have to) report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) . I didn’t realize that you could give permission for the friends to report .
There is such a disconnect between reality . As we know Doyle knew AND SAT ON THE LAPTOP AND THE PHONE ! If you are a human with a conscience you should be reporting That is the MORAL THING TO DO ! Do you need a new shovel yet workers ? You keep digging a hole and things just don’t match up ………. Silence in deep prayer might be a better idea . You are tripping over each other’s words , jus sayin
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2023 12:43:52 GMT -5
Can you blame him, it was never drummed into us to think for ouselves unfortunately..... I heard a 12 year old say in meeting one Sunday that we are not to think for ourselves. OMG Time to start, kids. Hmmm I guess I didn't get that memo... lol My crime was asking too many questions.
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2023 12:53:07 GMT -5
Dear Friends in AB, YT, NWT and NE BC I have often thought about writing a general letter to you all since news of Dean Bruer's tragic situation first broke a couple of weeks ago, but I hardly have known what to write. I just feel so sad as you no doubt do. I still don't know what to write, but perhaps l'II make an attempt at putting something together today. These are my thoughts...... A line of a hymn comes to mind several times every day...'Art thou pained to see the kingdom suffer loss?' I'm pained when I think of those women that Dean hurt so badly. I'm pained when I think of how much he has complicated their lives and how much they will suffer for it through the years. I pray that God can help them heal and move on again. And, I hope that you are praying for them also. I'm pained when I think of Dean, a man who appeared to be so useful and so faithful for so many years and then let something awful into his heart that destroyed him and hurt so many others. This pain is scary for me because like many of you who will be reading this letter, I am in the same age group that Dean was in. I pray desperately that God would help me to keep my heart pure until the journey's end. I pray that he will keep you also. I'm pained when I think of Mark who has now been accused of acting improperly. I'm so glad that he quickly, humbly stepped back. I'm pained when I think of my good friends who have been disappointed by workers who should have been examples to them. I pray that God will keep you all through this storm just as he has kept all of us through the past storms of life. I want to reassure you that we will do everything possible to make sure this does not happen again. I'm pained when I think of all those wonderful, Godly workers in areas where Dean has worked, who are now suffering for his actions. I'm pained for people who get some sad satisfaction out of spreading evil things that they find on social media and I ask, why aren't they pained to see the kingdom suffer loss? May God have mercy on them. Our study of Prov 16 has some very good food for thought in verses 20 and 27 I'm thankful when I remember that 'there is nothing new under the sun', as Solomon wrote. Jesus chose 12 disciples and one of them made a horrible error. With tens of thousands of friends and workers in the world today, it is inevitable that some will make a terrible mistake. I'm thankful when I receive message after message from friends encouraging me and wanting me to know that they are praying for us workers and support us in these difficult days. I'm thankful to know that most of our friends in our area are just patiently continuing. God knows His own and is taking care of His own. I'm thankful when I remember that this too shall pass and when it does, I want to make very sure that I am still on the right side. I'm thankful that when I pray, God brings peace into my distressed heart and I'm so grateful to remember Jesus' promise that He would give us His peace.... His peace, not as the world gives peace. I'm thankful when I remember that God is still on the throne and has everything under HIS control. This is HIS kingdom and HE will not let it come to harm. It has stood through many a storm over the centuries and it will come out stronger and purified again like it has before. I'm thankful when I remember that 'This world my home could never be, for Christ is coming back for me' May God help us all to "Pray for the peace of the city" and to pray that God would send his Son again to take us to be with him. A Brother, Michael Hassett . Note Merlin Affleck’s is (BC, Canada and Western Provinces overseer) Excellent point about Proverbs 16, I noticed it as well and many others too... I picked hymn 339 with much help from those in meeting tonight I couldn't find it in my Hymn book but knew the chorus enough. Proverbs 16 doesn't take into consideration that there is no way to talk about sexual assault of children in a way that is gracious. I don't advocate attacking or gloating. But conversation about such a horrific act can hardly be gracious. There is no way that these people that do the deed or cover up for those who do the deed, deserve 'gracious'.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 6, 2023 13:23:24 GMT -5
Apr 5 Dear Friends in Colorado, Utah and Eastern Nevada I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all. Jim Chafee and I are glad to be having meetings in the North Utah field. Domenic is on Special meetings in MO/AR. We are glad for some new ones that want to come and learn more about the bible and our friends that keep wanting to learn more about Jesus. It is still our desire to follow Jesus and to try to get others to do the same. We are glad we can still try to follow his example in the ministry. Thanks for helping us to make that possible. I think several of you are aware of some things that happened in Oregon/Idaho last year. We have been made aware recently that Dean Bruer, who was in the ministry in Oregon and South Idaho until he died last year, was living a very immoral, dishonest, double life. We are very sorry about that and feel especially for his victims! The friends in the areas where he worked have been notified. Any others who have been a victim of abuse or inappropriate behavior have been encouraged to reach out for support & to seek professional help if needed. I don't think he ever worked in Colorado/Utah or visited here but of course with travel and friends moving around some of you would know of him or heard him speak in a meeting. We are sorry for the trust that has been betrayed. A few people have asked what we can do to help prevent this from happening in the future. The workers in CO/UT have been doing some abuse awareness training for several years. All the staff are up to date on continuing education regarding recognizing & helping to prevent child sexual abuse. Workers are encouraged to report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) Workers have been encouraged to speak up if they witness or experience inappropriate behavior towards them or others, no matter who it is (Friends can do that too). I think we can help each other be accountable but also trust each other. It was a sad day in the New Testament when Judas, who was among the 12 apostles, betrayed Jesus. This act did not make all of them bad. We just read recently in our studies that they all forsook him and fled. Yet those same 11 arose and turned again to Jesus and were kept by him to fulfill his will. I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong. Your Brother Titus When the workers mention Judas in these letters it is because they feel betrayed. How dare anyone go to the police with allegations of their criminal sexual behaviour seems to be the message I get when they mention Judas.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 6, 2023 13:28:45 GMT -5
First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. This might be the very thing God is using to make the necessary changes. It doesn't mean that God consents in the actions, but he might be using it to purify. Just as God didn't consent with Judas, but he used it fulfill his will. But, that also might be me leaning on my own understanding. God knows all and therefore he is the only one with righteous judgement. We sit on here and pontificate, leaning on our own understanding. God's will will be done. We know that Jesus felt the need to purify and purge the temple, so he overthrew the tables. Maybe God is over throwing some tables right now. I am not placing blame on you personally but is this not the kind of willful blindness that created an atmosphere for db to be able to do what he did. I suspect leaning a bit more on our own understanding would be advisable. No? Leaning not on our own understanding and using God's understanding to help direct our lives does not mean that we walk around blindly. Do you think God and Christ would want us to be blind to this? Proverbs 16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 6, 2023 13:29:45 GMT -5
Apr 5 Dear Friends in Colorado, Utah and Eastern Nevada I have been thinking and praying for our friends and workers in Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I hope you are keeping your faith in the Lord. I have been comforted knowing that the Lord sees and knows all. Jim Chafee and I are glad to be having meetings in the North Utah field. Domenic is on Special meetings in MO/AR. We are glad for some new ones that want to come and learn more about the bible and our friends that keep wanting to learn more about Jesus. It is still our desire to follow Jesus and to try to get others to do the same. We are glad we can still try to follow his example in the ministry. Thanks for helping us to make that possible. I think several of you are aware of some things that happened in Oregon/Idaho last year. We have been made aware recently that Dean Bruer, who was in the ministry in Oregon and South Idaho until he died last year, was living a very immoral, dishonest, double life. We are very sorry about that and feel especially for his victims! The friends in the areas where he worked have been notified. Any others who have been a victim of abuse or inappropriate behavior have been encouraged to reach out for support & to seek professional help if needed. I don't think he ever worked in Colorado/Utah or visited here but of course with travel and friends moving around some of you would know of him or heard him speak in a meeting. We are sorry for the trust that has been betrayed. A few people have asked what we can do to help prevent this from happening in the future. The workers in CO/UT have been doing some abuse awareness training for several years. All the staff are up to date on continuing education regarding recognizing & helping to prevent child sexual abuse. Workers are encouraged to report any CSA directly to law enforcement for investigation. (Friends can do that too) Workers have been encouraged to speak up if they witness or experience inappropriate behavior towards them or others, no matter who it is (Friends can do that too). I think we can help each other be accountable but also trust each other. It was a sad day in the New Testament when Judas, who was among the 12 apostles, betrayed Jesus. This act did not make all of them bad. We just read recently in our studies that they all forsook him and fled. Yet those same 11 arose and turned again to Jesus and were kept by him to fulfill his will. I do like what someone pointed out that Peter knew right away when Ananias and Sapphirah were dishonest. Please pray that the Lord will give us more of the Spirit that would help us to be more aware when things are right and when they are wrong. Your Brother Titus When the workers mention Judas in these letters it is because they feel betrayed. How dare anyone go to the police with allegations of their criminal sexual behaviour seems to be the message I get when they mention Judas. They are speaking of DB being the betrayer...
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 6, 2023 13:58:43 GMT -5
When the workers mention Judas in these letters it is because they feel betrayed. How dare anyone go to the police with allegations of their criminal sexual behaviour seems to be the message I get when they mention Judas. They are speaking of DB being the betrayer... To be fair, this is absolutely correct. DB is Judas, not anyone with information or allegations about what he did. This is a much needed coping mechanism. It helps workers/current members come to grips with the fact that one of their own (especially one in the upper echelons of the church hierarchy) could be capable of such egregious behavior.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 6, 2023 14:32:02 GMT -5
They are speaking of DB being the betrayer... To be fair, this is absolutely correct. DB is Judas, not anyone with information or allegations about what he did. This is a much needed coping mechanism. It helps workers/current members come to grips with the fact that one of their own (especially one in the upper echelons of the church hierarchy) could be capable of such egregious behavior. Of course they are. However their actions towards those who go to the police paint a different picture. If Bruer was alive he would have been shipped off to Mozambique with some silly worker saying the need was great there.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 6, 2023 14:44:40 GMT -5
To be fair, this is absolutely correct. DB is Judas, not anyone with information or allegations about what he did. This is a much needed coping mechanism. It helps workers/current members come to grips with the fact that one of their own (especially one in the upper echelons of the church hierarchy) could be capable of such egregious behavior. Of course they are. However their actions towards those who go to the police paint a different picture. If Bruer was alive he would have been shipped off to Mozambique with some silly worker saying the need was great there. Yep. I think we all agree that this pattern of behavior has to stop. Like, before yesterday. Looking at you, Dale et al. If it does not stop, then this whole organization needs to go. And I say that as someone who has been pretty neutral since exiting myself. I know of many good people leading fulfilling lives within the 2X2 system, and I respect their choice, and who they are. But they ALL need to step up now and say "No more. Seriously, no more."
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Post by Grant on Apr 6, 2023 14:51:59 GMT -5
As for Project Peacehaven on YouTube involved a 48 year old professing man . I believe he was a IT worker . I will dig into my unhinged brain 🧠 and post it when I can recall it Oh wait , I smoke weed and take Valium so I could be off course …….. More updates will be shared when able . We have passed this information to a legal team whom are very interested in a Civil case in Calgary . They have been patiently waiting since 2021 . I was lucky enough to go to school from grade 1 - 12 became lawyers . Just a email away or sit down for a coffee . One of them is so awesome , when I reach out and his is dealing with a case in court , he gets back to me right away when not in court . As we ponder ………… 💭 🤔 Did you mean to write you became a lawyer or did you mean he became a lawyer? You wrote I...
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 6, 2023 14:57:06 GMT -5
2 hours ago Roselyn T said:..... 1 hours ago Chuck said.... 16 mins ago mrdobalina said.... apparently denying/choking on/unable to accept: ....the experience of people who have been searching for reality, God, Jesus, the meaning and purpose of life . These people tell the story.... of having gone from church to church and been disappointed. Then they find the ministry and church that Roselyn T, Chuck, mrdobalina etc etc despise and.... find, life, joy peace, Jesus...their experience! 🤷♂️ Searching for reality, are you smoking crack? What im choking on is the huge lie you guys just can't seem to face up to & come clean on, given your name & all its hypocrisy at the highest level, and im not going to apologize for having standards Would you rather lie to people to save them from dissapointment? Because that says a lot more about you than it does about me. If you are a liar, then surely Satan is your master. Well said indeed Wally
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 6, 2023 15:01:46 GMT -5
Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? The workers are sitting on millions, nothing to see here....... Their financial crimes ARE being investigated, that I assure you. There is alot to see, I'm glad another person realizes this. Good post Nothing to see here but the truth about the Truth, the Way and the "Kingdom" they are protecting is their Kingdom is shiftiing money around.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 16:09:01 GMT -5
Excellent point about Proverbs 16, I noticed it as well and many others too... I picked hymn 339 with much help from those in meeting tonight I couldn't find it in my Hymn book but knew the chorus enough. Proverbs 16 doesn't take into consideration that there is no way to talk about sexual assault of children in a way that is gracious. I don't advocate attacking or gloating. But conversation about such a horrific act can hardly be gracious. There is no way that these people that do the deed or cover up for those who do the deed, deserve 'gracious'. Proverbs 16 isn't worried about gracious talk it talks about wise talk...
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 6, 2023 16:18:03 GMT -5
There is way too much Anti-American sentiment here for my liking. [ I am not talking about everyone here. ] I have a lot of respect for America and Americans, even though I'm disgusted with Trump and his sycophants. Trumpism will pass and hopefully the nation will shake off the damage and move on. That's enough on this thread about Trumpism though - we don't want to pollute this important thread. Not you fixit. A poster here sent me a PM that was full of anit-American hatred using some foul language and they know I am an American. Why should I subject myself to that? This is an international board, I know. And not all countries have laws about hate speech; America doesn't. It's part of free speech. But, some countries do have laws regarding hate speech. There is a reason for. that, I'm sure. I hope America can recover from the divisiveness that the "Trump Era" generated too. It's been pretty ugly.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 6, 2023 16:23:37 GMT -5
Peggy that is not acceptable at all . You bring good comments and replies and you are valued . Some people just want to be a—holes . I have had a couple of not so nice DM’S . Blocked immediately on my end . Just so wrong 😑
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2023 16:34:44 GMT -5
In light of CSA/SA and other instances of abuse, what does this verse mean to you. Practically speaking. First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. This might be the very thing God is using to make the necessary changes. It doesn't mean that God consents in the actions, but he might be using it to purify. Just as God didn't consent with Judas, but he used it fulfill his will. But, that also might be me leaning on my own understanding. God knows all and therefore he is the only one with righteous judgement. We sit on here and pontificate, leaning on our own understanding. God's will will be done. We know that Jesus felt the need to purify and purge the temple, so he overthrew the tables. Maybe God is over throwing some tables right now. Stop apologizing for people who will not "use the safety vessel he provided while sitting on the roof." Be thankful for the freedoms God provided for you, and use THAT government to purify your reeking system. If you don't, you're not worthy of the freedoms you take for granted.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2023 16:40:34 GMT -5
I heard a 12 year old say in meeting one Sunday that we are not to think for ourselves. OMG Time to start, kids. Hmmm I guess I didn't get that memo... lol My crime was asking too many questions. I had the same problem.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 6, 2023 16:47:39 GMT -5
Peggy that is not acceptable at all . You bring good comments and replies and you are valued . Some people just want to be a—holes . I have had a couple of not so nice DM’S . Blocked immediately on my end . Just so wrong 😑 I guess blocking is an option. peggysullivan, I would not be adverse to posting the whole PM publicly on the board. They say sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 6, 2023 16:50:43 GMT -5
First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. This might be the very thing God is using to make the necessary changes. It doesn't mean that God consents in the actions, but he might be using it to purify. Just as God didn't consent with Judas, but he used it fulfill his will. But, that also might be me leaning on my own understanding. God knows all and therefore he is the only one with righteous judgement. We sit on here and pontificate, leaning on our own understanding. God's will will be done. We know that Jesus felt the need to purify and purge the temple, so he overthrew the tables. Maybe God is over throwing some tables right now. Stop apologizing for people who will not "use the safety vessel he provided while sitting on the roof." Be thankful for the freedoms God provided for you, and use THAT government to purify your reeking system. If you don't, you're not worthy of the freedoms you take for granted. Wow, that's quite an assumption. I'm apologizing for people, not thankful for my freedoms, and I don't want the government involved. Where have you seen me apologize for anyone? I would love to see anyone that has broken the law see their just "reward". I would recommend not putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about what I believe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 16:53:21 GMT -5
Stop apologizing for people who will not "use the safety vessel he provided while sitting on the roof." Be thankful for the freedoms God provided for you, and use THAT government to purify your reeking system. If you don't, you're not worthy of the freedoms you take for granted. I would recommend not putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about what I believe. It's Bob's forte here on TMB and a few others...
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2023 16:56:46 GMT -5
Stop apologizing for people who will not "use the safety vessel he provided while sitting on the roof." Be thankful for the freedoms God provided for you, and use THAT government to purify your reeking system. If you don't, you're not worthy of the freedoms you take for granted. Wow, that's quite an assumption. I'm apologizing for people, not thankful for my freedoms, and I don't want the government involved. Where have you seen me apologize for anyone? I would love to see anyone that has broken the law see their just "reward". I would recommend not putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about what I believe. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was telling you that you are a religious apologist.
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Post by snow on Apr 6, 2023 17:00:01 GMT -5
Proverbs 16 doesn't take into consideration that there is no way to talk about sexual assault of children in a way that is gracious. I don't advocate attacking or gloating. But conversation about such a horrific act can hardly be gracious. There is no way that these people that do the deed or cover up for those who do the deed, deserve 'gracious'. Proverbs 16 isn't worried about gracious talk it talks about wise talk... It also talks about gracious talk. Wise talk I agree is good. Gracious on this subject not so good.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 6, 2023 17:09:19 GMT -5
Wow, that's quite an assumption. I'm apologizing for people, not thankful for my freedoms, and I don't want the government involved. Where have you seen me apologize for anyone? I would love to see anyone that has broken the law see their just "reward". I would recommend not putting words in my mouth or making assumptions about what I believe. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was telling you that you are a religious apologist. Well, as momma always says, "you can't fix stupid", so I guess I'll leave this one alone.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 6, 2023 17:10:36 GMT -5
I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was telling you that you are a religious apologist. Well, as momma always says, "you can't fix stupid", so I guess I'll leave this one alone.
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