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Post by chuck on Apr 5, 2023 20:36:38 GMT -5
While I'm sure he is pained that this has happened, it sounds more like it's not because of the victims so much as how it's impacting the church. For him to say he's sorry "it's complicated their lives" is an interesting way of looking at something this serious. I'm glad he does acknowledge that they will suffer life long, but you never completely 'move on' like he wants them to do. Also he is thankful this too shall pass and the church will be the stronger for it. Well Mr Hassat, this too shall pass for you and likely not effect you too much, but this will never 'pass' for those who have been abused. Never. So I feel that was a rather insensitive thing to say. He is also 'pained' that people are spreading this information. I'm sorry but that sounds a lot like he's pained about transparency. Transparency is the only way this is going to stop. Awareness and knowledge is key to stopping this. This seems to be an incidence where he starts out good, but should have left it at that because the rest of the letter goes down hill for me anyway. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but the wording in this letter has triggered me more than most that have been issued by the workers. Too bad it was entirely platitudes. Hoe can anyone evaluate his sincerity with that? I'm kinda sad for the people who it was sent to. Can you blame him, it was never drummed into us to think for ouselves unfortunately.....
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Post by chuck on Apr 5, 2023 20:46:30 GMT -5
Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? The best way to utilize money to help the victims of the cult you are in is too cut off the supply of it. Sycophants, leeches and enablers of the criminals in it would soon need to get a real job. didn't the workers in the bible make tents and sails.....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 5, 2023 21:00:31 GMT -5
The best way to utilize money to help the victims of the cult you are in is too cut off the supply of it. Sycophants, leeches and enablers of the criminals in it would soon need to get a real job. didn't the workers in the bible make tents and sails..... What workers in the bible?
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2023 21:08:14 GMT -5
Too bad it was entirely platitudes. Hoe can anyone evaluate his sincerity with that? I'm kinda sad for the people who it was sent to. Can you blame him, it was never drummed into us to think for ouselves unfortunately..... I heard a 12 year old say in meeting one Sunday that we are not to think for ourselves. OMG Time to start, kids.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 5, 2023 21:15:50 GMT -5
I formed the same impression too Snow. We are seeing "minimise" the incidents, and maximise some Hymns or Scripture. De-emphasize the illegal activity, and emphasize the church. Minimise the impact it might have on the church, and offer thoughts and prayers for the victims. But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling. Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? Yes.
I know that, and also deceased member who leave estates, or part thereof.
That is my business.
I already do, but I don't advertise what, and how. In my work, I have been involved in putting people like DB behind bars.
I'm out of here now for a while. It's Easter, and time to go bush
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Post by chuck on Apr 5, 2023 21:25:54 GMT -5
didn't the workers in the bible make tents and sails..... What workers in the bible? Didn't you know there was workers in the bible.......
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2023 21:28:34 GMT -5
What workers in the bible? Didn't you know there was workers in the bible....... Paul was a tent maker, and he had two helpers. The Bible tells us so.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 5, 2023 21:52:05 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
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Post by verna on Apr 5, 2023 22:04:16 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In light of CSA/SA and other instances of abuse, what does this verse mean to you. Practically speaking.
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Post by fixit on Apr 5, 2023 22:06:59 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Just don't substitute "the Lord" with any human or institution or tradition or culture - thinking that they respresent "the Lord".
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Post by chuck on Apr 5, 2023 22:20:11 GMT -5
Didn't you know there was workers in the bible....... Paul was a tent maker, and he had two helpers. The Bible tells us so. Didn't we just read recently that Moses's father in-law wasn't professing....there must have been workers in his day as well... At convention they told us that it was a mission when Jesus preached from the boat..... All of this can only mean that the tent maker must have been a worker.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2023 22:28:54 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Trusting in the Lord has nothing to do with doing what you're told by anyone -- I recon. Trusting in the Lord is like making plans for when the Lord brings up the sun tomorrow morning.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 5, 2023 22:32:08 GMT -5
Paul was a tent maker, and he had two helpers. The Bible tells us so. Didn't we just read recently that Moses's father in-law wasn't professing....there must have been workers in his day as well... At convention they told us that it was a mission when Jesus preached from the boat..... All of this can only mean that the tent maker must have been a worker. They didn't proselytize in OT times. They tolerated their non believers until they were instructed to get rid of them. This "work it" bit is NT stuff.
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Post by butterfingers on Apr 5, 2023 22:45:39 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In light of CSA/SA and other instances of abuse, what does this verse mean to you. Practically speaking. First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. This might be the very thing God is using to make the necessary changes. It doesn't mean that God consents in the actions, but he might be using it to purify. Just as God didn't consent with Judas, but he used it fulfill his will. But, that also might be me leaning on my own understanding. God knows all and therefore he is the only one with righteous judgement. We sit on here and pontificate, leaning on our own understanding. God's will will be done. We know that Jesus felt the need to purify and purge the temple, so he overthrew the tables. Maybe God is over throwing some tables right now.
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Post by mrdobalina on Apr 5, 2023 23:16:32 GMT -5
I formed the same impression too Snow. We are seeing "minimise" the incidents, and maximise some Hymns or Scripture. De-emphasize the illegal activity, and emphasize the church. Minimise the impact it might have on the church, and offer thoughts and prayers for the victims. But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling. Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? I don't think it's Prag's problem. How about you stump up the cash from your own massive and undisclosed reserves for your own problems, rather than gaslighting good and proper people that fight to stamp out the very disgusting behaviour "gods own people" have been caught red handed doing. I guess you guys are going to turn this into a cash grab opportunity. The gullible will have their wallets wide open. And for what it's worth, I've never said this on here before, my niece was sexually abused as a child many years ago by a 2x2 member in a big way. Only the immediate family know at this stage, but his time is coming very soon.
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Post by fixit on Apr 5, 2023 23:32:42 GMT -5
In light of CSA/SA and other instances of abuse, what does this verse mean to you. Practically speaking. First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. Dean Bruer proved he wasn't in the palm of God's hand.
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Post by mrdobalina on Apr 5, 2023 23:37:02 GMT -5
First of all we need to trust that God has everything in the palm of his hand. Dean Bruer proved he wasn't in the palm of God's hand. I'm not sure about that, have you read a bible? God was a bit of a nutter.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 5, 2023 23:58:53 GMT -5
Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? Yes.
I know that, and also deceased member who leave estates, or part thereof. That is my business. I already do, but I don't advertise what, and how. In my work, I have been involved in putting people like DB behind bars. I'm out of here now for a while. It's Easter, and time to go bush
Enjoy, Pragmatic
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 6, 2023 0:54:50 GMT -5
Pragmatic are you a member /present member of the church? Why am I asking? Well if you are a member you will understand that church funds come solely from money given by members. You post: "But no talk, certainly on here, of establishing some sort of fund for the victims, eg: paid counseling". Is your input limited to TMB posts or are you a person who is willing to put your money where your mouth is? Yes.
I know that, and also deceased member who leave estates, or part thereof.
That is my business.
I already do, but I don't advertise what, and how. In my work, I have been involved in putting people like DB behind bars.
I'm out of here now for a while. It's Easter, and time to go bush
Aah you are a member of the church. But 'your money is not where your mouth is'. Good move to go bush! Come back and post again after a few days as if nothing is wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 1:03:10 GMT -5
Dear Friends in AB, YT, NWT and NE BC I have often thought about writing a general letter to you all since news of Dean Bruer's tragic situation first broke a couple of weeks ago, but I hardly have known what to write. I just feel so sad as you no doubt do. I still don't know what to write, but perhaps l'II make an attempt at putting something together today. These are my thoughts...... A line of a hymn comes to mind several times every day...'Art thou pained to see the kingdom suffer loss?' I'm pained when I think of those women that Dean hurt so badly. I'm pained when I think of how much he has complicated their lives and how much they will suffer for it through the years. I pray that God can help them heal and move on again. And, I hope that you are praying for them also. I'm pained when I think of Dean, a man who appeared to be so useful and so faithful for so many years and then let something awful into his heart that destroyed him and hurt so many others. This pain is scary for me because like many of you who will be reading this letter, I am in the same age group that Dean was in. I pray desperately that God would help me to keep my heart pure until the journey's end. I pray that he will keep you also. I'm pained when I think of Mark who has now been accused of acting improperly. I'm so glad that he quickly, humbly stepped back. I'm pained when I think of my good friends who have been disappointed by workers who should have been examples to them. I pray that God will keep you all through this storm just as he has kept all of us through the past storms of life. I want to reassure you that we will do everything possible to make sure this does not happen again. I'm pained when I think of all those wonderful, Godly workers in areas where Dean has worked, who are now suffering for his actions. I'm pained for people who get some sad satisfaction out of spreading evil things that they find on social media and I ask, why aren't they pained to see the kingdom suffer loss? May God have mercy on them. Our study of Prov 16 has some very good food for thought in verses 20 and 27 I'm thankful when I remember that 'there is nothing new under the sun', as Solomon wrote. Jesus chose 12 disciples and one of them made a horrible error. With tens of thousands of friends and workers in the world today, it is inevitable that some will make a terrible mistake. I'm thankful when I receive message after message from friends encouraging me and wanting me to know that they are praying for us workers and support us in these difficult days. I'm thankful to know that most of our friends in our area are just patiently continuing. God knows His own and is taking care of His own. I'm thankful when I remember that this too shall pass and when it does, I want to make very sure that I am still on the right side. I'm thankful that when I pray, God brings peace into my distressed heart and I'm so grateful to remember Jesus' promise that He would give us His peace.... His peace, not as the world gives peace. I'm thankful when I remember that God is still on the throne and has everything under HIS control. This is HIS kingdom and HE will not let it come to harm. It has stood through many a storm over the centuries and it will come out stronger and purified again like it has before. I'm thankful when I remember that 'This world my home could never be, for Christ is coming back for me' May God help us all to "Pray for the peace of the city" and to pray that God would send his Son again to take us to be with him. A Brother, Michael Hassett . Note Merlin Affleck’s is (BC, Canada and Western Provinces overseer) Excellent point about Proverbs 16, I noticed it as well and many others too... I picked hymn 339 with much help from those in meeting tonight I couldn't find it in my Hymn book but knew the chorus enough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 1:11:34 GMT -5
Dear Friends in AB, YT, NWT and NE BC I'm pained for people who get some sad satisfaction out of spreading evil things that they find on social media and I ask, why aren't they pained to see the kingdom suffer loss? May God have mercy on them. A Brother, Michael Hassett . Well isn’t this rich? I take no pleasure in the pain DB has caused his victims/survivors. However, I do take great pleasure in seeing (finally and justly!) the organization’s underbelly exposed. Why would I be pained to see an organization as smug as MH himself get its just desserts? The workers (and yes I’m generalizing here to make a point) have been exposed for what they are—wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are suddenly so “concerned” about the victims now that they can no longer sweep it under the rug like they have in the past. It’s laughable when the workers and friends point out that this happens in other churches too. Very few other churches make the grand claims they make for themselves—that they are the only true church on earth and only its members possess the “holy spirit.” I’m fond of saying that if a church wants to make the claim that it is the only correct church on earth then its members better behave like it!! Surely having the holy spirit should make a notable difference in a person’s behavior, yes? Also, why would I need the non-existent christian god to have mercy on me, especially regarding this of all things? 🤷 Have the members of the church ever been perfect? I'd like to know when that was, I seem to remember in about 33AD a bit of evil starting at the Top of the clergy going on...
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Post by mountain on Apr 6, 2023 2:43:22 GMT -5
Vinz, I'm sorry, but in the cage you must go to await sentence. Without trial and with the dispensing of the suspect-accused-conviction procedure, which no longer apply, The self appointed TMB Judge (not me) has pronounced you guilty of: 1) Threatening behaviour. 2) Warning people in an aggressive manner, 3) Verbal abuse, and 4) Hate Speech. That could all add up to quite a stretch away from TMB? It is irrelevant that the investigation procedure and the due process of law has not been carried out. In the absence of suspicion we must move straight to conviction. You are not permitted to say anything in answer to the charges in case you might repeat them. What? So I said that the perpetrators will be brought to justice and I'm a bad guy? I didn't threaten anyone and I was in due order threatened directly. But nothing is done to Ms Peggy Sullivan? I am absolutely NOT surprised at all because you people protect your own. Those who "profess" shall be forever protected. This is the exact behavior that the 2x2 cult does. That's OK, I was only trying to do the right thing and give the victims hope. I understand that that is the LAST thing that you people want. Just goes right along with what you've been doing. I've been bashed the entire time I've been in here because I do something that is foreign to you people, tell the truth. Vinz, Keep in mind that it is not me who is judging you, but another! A person who appears to have set themselves up as judge in these matters has found you guilty without trial on all four things listed. Just check the posts. This same person has more than a little difficulty with understanding the concept of 'suspicion' but in their exchanges with yourself has no problem with swiftly convicting you with a string of criminal offences. I will leave it at that. I will always give you a fair hearing. Take care
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Post by mountain on Apr 6, 2023 2:46:50 GMT -5
The best way to utilize money to help the victims of the cult you are in is too cut off the supply of it. Sycophants, leeches and enablers of the criminals in it would soon need to get a real job. didn't the workers in the bible make tents and sails..... Yes they did. Are you suggesting they are not practising the modern day equivalents of 'loitering within tent' and 'sailing with the wind?'
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Post by chuck on Apr 6, 2023 3:20:19 GMT -5
Yes.
I know that, and also deceased member who leave estates, or part thereof.
That is my business.
I already do, but I don't advertise what, and how. In my work, I have been involved in putting people like DB behind bars.
I'm out of here now for a while. It's Easter, and time to go bush
Aah you are a member of the church. But 'your money is not where your mouth is'. Good move to go bush! Come back and post again after a few days as if nothing is wrong. It seems highly likey Prags doesn't sound the trumpet......why you insist he does is anyones guess.....
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Post by chuck on Apr 6, 2023 3:50:46 GMT -5
didn't the workers in the bible make tents and sails..... Yes they did. Are you suggesting they are not practising the modern day equivalents of 'loitering within tent' and 'sailing with the wind?'Im suggesting they forgot to read themselves into that particular bit oddly enough......
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Post by mrdobalina on Apr 6, 2023 4:13:41 GMT -5
Well isn’t this rich? I take no pleasure in the pain DB has caused his victims/survivors. However, I do take great pleasure in seeing (finally and justly!) the organization’s underbelly exposed. Why would I be pained to see an organization as smug as MH himself get its just desserts? The workers (and yes I’m generalizing here to make a point) have been exposed for what they are—wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are suddenly so “concerned” about the victims now that they can no longer sweep it under the rug like they have in the past. It’s laughable when the workers and friends point out that this happens in other churches too. Very few other churches make the grand claims they make for themselves—that they are the only true church on earth and only its members possess the “holy spirit.” I’m fond of saying that if a church wants to make the claim that it is the only correct church on earth then its members better behave like it!! Surely having the holy spirit should make a notable difference in a person’s behavior, yes? Also, why would I need the non-existent christian god to have mercy on me, especially regarding this of all things? 🤷 Have the members of the church ever been perfect? I'd like to know when that was, I seem to remember in about 33AD a bit of evil starting at the Top of the clergy going on... Yeah, I'd suggest people leave them to their own devices. If narcissists had had no followers there would be no narcissists
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rob
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Post by rob on Apr 6, 2023 4:14:20 GMT -5
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Excellent advice, but I noticed that you, along with many others, have downgraded LORD!!! That’s a common 2x2 misunderstanding of the significance of the word LORD in KJV. Once you understand the significance of the word LORD, everything fits into place in scripture. The common way the word Lord is used, especially by 2x2’s, is idolatry.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 6, 2023 4:15:04 GMT -5
Yes.
I know that, and also deceased member who leave estates, or part thereof. That is my business. I already do, but I don't advertise what, and how. In my work, I have been involved in putting people like DB behind bars. I'm out of here now for a while. It's Easter, and time to go bush
Aah you are a member of the church. But 'your money is not where your mouth is'. Good move to go bush! Come back and post again after a few days as if nothing is wrong. internationalstudies, you have mentioned the Ministry training/safety course in Australia a few times. Do you live in Australia?
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