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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 13:49:30 GMT -5
We forgive but NEVER FORGET ! Focus on the VICTIMS ! You have not heard their story BH . You are correct PeggyS
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 14:13:22 GMT -5
Latest update verified . Dear WA, N ID, and AK friends and workers, Many of you would be aware that this week some allegations of inappropriate behavior against Mark Huddle have arisen and of course we are all very saddened to hear of this. However, in the interest of a thorough, appropriate response we very much want to make sure that anv and all allegations that come forward are sensitivelv. fullv and properly addressed. As a result of this recent development, Mark has already stepped down from the oversight of the work in WA, N ID and AK so these allegations can be addressed. We feel it is appropriate for Darryl, Wayne and Brian to work together as a team to guide the work there for the time being. If these three brothers need information from previous planning, they will be able to reach out to Mark. They are also welcomed to reach out to any of the surrounding overseers at any time they would consider it advantageous and helpful. We are suggesting this team of brothers guide things there until we are past this initial crisis and it becomes more apparent what should be done in the long term. Darryl is travelling back to Washington as we write, and three of us will be traveling to Washington on Monday to visit with these three brothers and to make any other important visits that may be helpful. The recent events have certainly brought sorrow and concern, but we do know that God has led His people through many tragedies and the kingdom has been strengthened in the end. We hope that all of you will work together with our three brothers as they and we all seek to work together with His leading and grace. As we pass through these difficult times, may we all keep centered on Jesus and not allow ourselves to become centered on any one problem, situation or person. Only with the Lord in the center can any of us do right and find the blessing of God that will more than match any storm that comes our way (Mark 6:36- 41). God's great love for the souls of His people, His servants and the world is what gives us complete hope as we pass through this storm. Sincerely in His care and keeping, Dale S, Jim A, Merlin A, Mike H, Rob N, Scott R, Doyle S Mark Huddle didn’t leave the Truth he stepped back , as a worker because his name came up . There was a overseers moved in the last two years for his deeds in Alberta .
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 2, 2023 14:26:17 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource. The last person an abused church member should talk to is a worker. They have shown they cannot be trusted. Some of them indulge in criminal behaviour. It is the police the abused should go to.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 14:31:24 GMT -5
Well stated Curly
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Post by verna on Apr 2, 2023 14:39:25 GMT -5
Latest update verified . Dear WA, N ID, and AK friends and workers, Many of you would be aware that this week some allegations of inappropriate behavior against Mark Huddle have arisen and of course we are all very saddened to hear of this. However, in the interest of a thorough, appropriate response we very much want to make sure that anv and all allegations that come forward are sensitivelv. fullv and properly addressed. As a result of this recent development, Mark has already stepped down from the oversight of the work in WA, N ID and AK so these allegations can be addressed. We feel it is appropriate for Darryl, Wayne and Brian to work together as a team to guide the work there for the time being. If these three brothers need information from previous planning, they will be able to reach out to Mark. They are also welcomed to reach out to any of the surrounding overseers at any time they would consider it advantageous and helpful. We are suggesting this team of brothers guide things there until we are past this initial crisis and it becomes more apparent what should be done in the long term. Darryl is travelling back to Washington as we write, and three of us will be traveling to Washington on Monday to visit with these three brothers and to make any other important visits that may be helpful. The recent events have certainly brought sorrow and concern, but we do know that God has led His people through many tragedies and the kingdom has been strengthened in the end. We hope that all of you will work together with our three brothers as they and we all seek to work together with His leading and grace. As we pass through these difficult times, may we all keep centered on Jesus and not allow ourselves to become centered on any one problem, situation or person. Only with the Lord in the center can any of us do right and find the blessing of God that will more than match any storm that comes our way (Mark 6:36- 41). God's great love for the souls of His people, His servants and the world is what gives us complete hope as we pass through this storm. Sincerely in His care and keeping, Dale S, Jim A, Merlin A, Mike H, Rob N, Scott R, Doyle S SEVEN MEN listed at the bottom of letter. No sister workers. Do they not even recognize that they are so behind the times?!!!
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Post by Dan on Apr 2, 2023 14:43:54 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource.
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 14:47:46 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource.
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
I will repeat myself , my CSA STARTED BY BEING HOISTED TO A LAP . No so innocent of a act ! I am certain Doyle is taking counsel from a lawyer .
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Post by verna on Apr 2, 2023 14:53:41 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource.
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
Dan Dan Dan - can you seriously summarize the concern of MH as “reading a story book”? I hardly think that is where the concern lies.
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2023 14:55:30 GMT -5
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 2, 2023 15:00:50 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource.
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
I agree Dan. I don't envy Doyle or any of the workers in taking next steps going forward. Not a fun place to be in. I think it's helpful to consult with people who have compassion for victims but can also be dispassionate and think with a clear head before making decisions. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water in other words. The truth is most people you meet are not sex offenders, in or out of the truth.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:01:42 GMT -5
I still find it very hard to believe that no one knew what Dean was doing. He's been in the work for decades and one point he had companions. Does anyone think that he only started doing this when he became an unsupervised overseer? I suppose it's possible, but is it probable? I don’t believe it at all , full stop . But a friend (no a 2X2) said ……….. Chinesewhispers you are no longer alone in this evil deeds ! Thx beautiful person , coffee Soon ! Thank you so much for listening to stories I can share with that person . It is mind blowing to say the least !!!!!!!! FULL STOP . Vinny has no idea about Canadian victims . Even fuller stop 🛑
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 2, 2023 15:04:18 GMT -5
I still find it very hard to believe that no one knew what Dean was doing. He's been in the work for decades and one point he had companions. Does anyone think that he only started doing this when he became an unsupervised overseer? I suppose it's possible, but is it probable? I didn't know Dean. And I've never been a worker, so I can't say how closely companions keep tabs on one another. Some sex offenders are "opportunistic"....meaning they can go a long time and not abuse anyone at all, but when an opportunity arises to get close to someone and they are tempted they may take advantage of it. Others.....can groom their victims and the people around the victims for YEARS....before they actually abuse the victim
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 2, 2023 15:07:07 GMT -5
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
Dan Dan Dan - can you seriously summarize the concern of MH as “reading a story book”? I hardly think that is where the concern lies. In all fairness, at this point in time that is an unfounded allegation. Someone said that someone told them about this event. Second hand account? MH is doing the appropriate thing, IMO.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:07:22 GMT -5
Getting grabbed and kissed on the lips by a female worker right before being baptized , with an extended hug , was not good . I should not have been baptized ! I felt like I was battling my way out of a car yet again . True dat ! My mom had looked forward to that day . Looking back now , I should have walked away from the Truth then . However I made sure and scheduled my vacation time to take my parents to convention and meeting in 2009 until my mom passed on March 27th 2021 .
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2023 15:10:30 GMT -5
I still find it very hard to believe that no one knew what Dean was doing. He's been in the work for decades and one point he had companions. Does anyone think that he only started doing this when he became an unsupervised overseer? I suppose it's possible, but is it probable? I didn't know Dean. And I've never been a worker, so I can't say how closely companions keep tabs on one another. Some sex offenders are "opportunistic"....meaning they can go a long time and not abuse anyone at all, but when an opportunity arises to get close to someone and they are tempted they may take advantage of it. Others.....can groom their victims and the people around the victims for YEARS....before they actually abuse the victim This is true. I have given links to recognizing the process and what to do if you see the red flags so that anyone reading here can go take a look at the information. I think that the fact they go 2x2 has made it easier for them to build it into their checks and balances. And it's not a bad thing so long as the one that is offending isn't also in a position of power over the companion worker. Young workers can be intimidated by their senior worker and not report it even if they know they are doing something inappropriate for example.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:14:10 GMT -5
Dan Dan Dan - can you seriously summarize the concern of MH as “reading a story book”? I hardly think that is where the concern lies. In all fairness, at this point in time that is an unfounded allegation. Someone said that someone told them about this event. Second hand account? MH is doing the appropriate thing, IMO. Yes he is and it may turn out that he did cross a line . No 12 years old should be sitting in a worker’s lap ever . That opens the door for grooming for what is to come . I will not reveal details . But after this broke I am physically feeling like I did at age two . Some of us have spoken about regressing to childhood ! Which my body is doing so right now . Thx for all the love and concern given to me by many, including if I am safe and my head is still above water . As Mr B said , I am a very smart unhinged (crazy) person . I have personally shared some of the correspondence coming to me via email . The concern and love and care is phenomenal . I am truly grateful and my heart goes out to victims and their families and friends , no one chooses these acts .
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 2, 2023 15:18:23 GMT -5
The allegation against MH is heresay at this point.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:25:26 GMT -5
Yes it is hearsay and we are getting mixed messages from certain people
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Post by verna on Apr 2, 2023 15:38:54 GMT -5
Dan Dan Dan - can you seriously summarize the concern of MH as “reading a story book”? I hardly think that is where the concern lies. In all fairness, at this point in time that is an unfounded allegation. Someone said that someone told them about this event. Second hand account? MH is doing the appropriate thing, IMO. In all fairness, names aside, (let’s just be hypothetical here) it worries me when someone downplays the reported situation. A male member of a clergy (any religion) holds an 11 year old girl on his lap to read a book (or any other activity). Puberty is 8-13 in females. Not appropriate. To classify this as “reading a book” is worrisome to me and seems purposefully discounting.
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Post by Dan on Apr 2, 2023 15:43:38 GMT -5
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
I will repeat myself , my CSA STARTED BY BEING HOISTED TO A LAP . No so innocent of a act ! I am certain Doyle is taking counsel from a lawyer .
Didn't mean to insinuate that your situation didn't escalate into something degenerate, just that some innocent inter-reactions could be mistakenly construed as something else.
I was simply implying that if reading to a child was all it was, then a witch hunt is not warranted. I once saw a little boy run across the convention ground calling my sisters name, and when he got to her, she bent over, gave him a hug, and told him she was glad to see him there. My other sister spent some time teaching kids how to play the piano. Neither sister (workers) was cuffed and hauled to jail, but in the current atmosphere, they'd probably be walking on egg shells after committing such atrocities. If a brother Worker walked-up behind you, put his hand on your shoulder and asked how you were doing, would you file a police report?
My point is that some normal behavior could be ridiculously viewed as inappropriate when people are put under a microscope.
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Post by Grant on Apr 2, 2023 15:47:06 GMT -5
The allegation against Mark Huddle in and of itself doesn't give much to go on. The fact he has "stepped back" and encouraged it to be shared openly by the other brothers tells me he doesn't have anything to hide. I think it's important to be careful about turning this whole thing into a witch hunt. Anytime correction is needed in any situation, it's important to be careful about how it is done and not go overboard. That doesn't mean you are in any way MINIMIZING the abuse that you DO have knowledge of or ignoring it. From what I can tell, Doyle Smith took good counsel before writing the letters and consulted with a professional counselor before he released the information to the group. And I support that. Victims do not always want things shared with others; would rather keep it confidential. That is their decision and needs to be respected. It depends on how their therapy is going and whether or not they are ready for that step. If that step is taken too soon it can be traumatizing to them. Depending on how their therapy is going, taking that step of disclosure can progress healing and bring a little closure and justice for them. They may help others and if they can help others that can help them. Contrary to what some have said, I do believe there can be HEALING for victims. They will never forget the abuse. But they can heal. And, they can even forgive their abuser. Vinny said another overseer has stepped down. That is simply not accurate. I also got the impression Vinny was the private investigator. I guess he is not. He does seem to be quite emotionally invested in all this. But it's really not helpful to spew such negative things about Doyle Smith like that. Most on here don't know Doyle. Perhaps Vinny does. I don't know. It's concerning and it's sad. But, in all the letters I have knowledge of the workers made it very plain they encouraged anyone to talk to them about it. That's a good thing. If anyone is having a hard time processing this thing, I do hope they get their needs addressed and have a resource. The last person an abused church member should talk to is a worker. They have shown they cannot be trusted. Some of them indulge in criminal behaviour. It is the police the abused should go to. I agree that going to the workers is not advised, and going to the police is. Having worked with a large number of victim survivors, a lot of help is often needed via counselling before they are able to reach the place to be able to do that if ever at all. Most still choose not to go to the police. That is their choice and there are many reasons they do not. Their choice should be respected and they should not be forced or coerced into doing something they do not want to do. Choice and saying no is their right which was taken away from them by the abuser. Going to a therapist is often the best choice. People choose to not go to the police for many reasons. Often because they have told someone in the past and not been believed. They may also be wary of people in authority. They risk being ostracized by family and others and numerous other reasons. Many people do heal and go on to live fulfilling lives. I will leave it for now.... Discussion is fine, online advise is not recommended.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:51:31 GMT -5
I will repeat myself , my CSA STARTED BY BEING HOISTED TO A LAP . No so innocent of an act ! I am certain Doyle is taking counsel from a lawyer .
Didn't mean to insinuate that your situation didn't escalate into something degenerate, just that some innocent inter-reactions could be mistakenly construed as something else.
I was simply implying that if reading to a child was all it was, then a witch hunt is not warranted. I once saw a little boy run across the convention ground calling my sisters name, and when he got to her, she bent over, gave him a hug, and told him she was glad to see him there. My other sister spent some time teaching kids how to play the piano. Neither sister (workers) was cuffed and hauled to jail, but in the current atmosphere, they'd probably be walking on egg shells after committing such atrocities. If a brother Worker walked-up behind you, put his hand on your shoulder and asked how you were doing, would you file a police report?
My point is that some normal behavior could be ridiculously viewed as inappropriate when people are put under a microscope.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 15:53:41 GMT -5
Dan , I am not upset with what you have said . I have no problem with you saying that . I was just giving a warning Because that is how it started for me . But no 12 year old should be sitting in a worker’s lap . That is banned in school and many other places .
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 2, 2023 17:13:45 GMT -5
I think Doyle has said all that he can, he has to be somewhat discreet and not jeopardize the investigation or the confidentiality of the victims, so every intimate detail of what he may know can't be relayed, but the basics have been disclosed.
There's also a danger of throwing every Worker under the bus by interpreting every innocent interaction as some sort of perversion. e.g; Reading a story book (Mark Huddle) is hardly any type of assault.
Paranoia could run rampant and its important to remember that 99% of the Workers aren't complicit in any way, shape, or form of what's come to light. They all seem outraged and saddened by how this reflects on the ministry, and its been inferred that steps are being taken to prevent any such recurrence.
I will repeat myself , my CSA STARTED BY BEING HOISTED TO A LAP . No so innocent of a act ! I am certain Doyle is taking counsel from a lawyer Let's hope he is....right? I mean the older workers are a lot of things but .... sharp legal minds they ain't. Perhaps you aren't putting forth an argument that merely having professional legal representation or counsel is suspicious in and of itself...that old chestnut needs to be set aside. Feel free to clarify.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Apr 2, 2023 18:14:29 GMT -5
I have not personally done any such thing, or said I have no issue with it - that is your assumption and accusation. I had access to that letter earlier than many on here, and chose not to share it publically. It is now public, so yes, I will comment. Where is my hypocrisy? I would say in stating outrage over the one scenario (FB group) and joining in on the discussion of the other scenario (private emails) with no comment at all about that being an invasion of privacy...that's hypocrisy IMO. Personally, I don't have a big issue with either. In both of these scenarios the sender should know what they say is not exactly a private off-the-record discussion. But if I was to rank them, an email is definitely considered more private than a loosely guarded FB group with hundreds of members. Outrage? Seriously? Not at all. Just pointing out the inappropriateness and nonsensical nature of posting random comments (with no context) in a public forum about content in a private forum. Let’s not kid ourselves – the only reason Dean Bruer is all over the internet is because of his own sins. "Invasion of Privacy" Are you kidding? The information in Doyle's letter did need to be made public, and Doyle (to his credit) was in the process of doing that. This was not a "private" matter - it already involves a number of victims who asked that the abuse be made public. Doyle's letter was not private correspondence to another person. It was to a wide range of people in whose areas Dean had been, and to people who may have been affected. Like it or not, this would need to include PAST members who also need to be informed what has transpired. And there will likely be more victims of the same abuser. You refer to the release of Doyle's letter as an "invasion of privacy" - WHOSE privacy??? Sorry, but I completely disagree. It is NOT an invasion of privacy to release a letter about a known abuser to all who have been in his areas. It is the usual and appropriate course of action in such cases. "All over the internet" includes the change of information on his memorial tribute page too. Again, appropriate. Is that an invasion of privacy? Word would have gotten to the internet sooner or later, regardless of whether Doyle's letter was reproduced. But with allegations such as this, evidence was needed. Doyle’s letter was hardcore evidence. Call me cynical, but doesn’t this group have a strong track record of lying about the past and covering evidence? Of course evidence was needed. We exes have all learnt that the hard way. We now collect evidence wherever possible, because otherwise we’ll be called liars. Instead, we present the evidence and are called a million other names (like hypocrites, bitter, etc), but whatever, at least we can prove it. As Wally would say, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But if you really want to talk hypocrisy, let's do it. The church which claims not to be an organisation but actually secretly registers itself all over the place. The church which claims not to be a denomination but is a worldwide specific denomination. The church which claims not to have ministers when they may be charged for hiding CSA, but tries to prove it has ministers when they may be called up for military duty. The church which condemns all other churches for taking public collections while taking huge private donations and hiding them. The church which condemns all other churches for having church buildings while spending millions on its convention grounds. I have a long list. Want me to keep going?
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 2, 2023 18:32:57 GMT -5
Elisabeth you post: "The church which claims not to have ministers when they may be charged for hiding CSA, but tries to prove it has ministers when they may be called up for military duty."
I know about workers claiming to be ministers regarding military duty. I could myself source specific instances and details regarding that.
I'm not aware of specific instances and details of the church claiming to not have ministers to avoid being charged for hiding CSA. This is of real concern. Kindly post them here Thanks!
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meg1
Junior Member
Posts: 148
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Post by meg1 on Apr 2, 2023 18:45:31 GMT -5
To any elders reading here- please understand that you are in a position of power. You are in a position of power. If you have read the letters sent by the senior brother workers to the folks in your meeting it is most important to ensure that those people know where to go for help with surviving abuse or other trauma caused by this current horror, or horror from the past. It is not appropriate to say that they should talk to the workers about any of this. Support in this trauma needs to come from professional counsellors. Registered phycologists or social workers have the skills and knowledge to help. The workers do not. They do not have the training. Seek professional help. A list of local mental health professionals would be useful. Share that following the letters. Support for survivors is the most important action you can take. Real, legal, useful support.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 2, 2023 18:57:19 GMT -5
You can bet your ass , that Doyle S and others are in legal trouble period
They had the information on his laptop and phone & SAT ON THAT INFORMATION WHICH WAS THERE . Them encouraging victims to SPEAK WITH WORKERS SPEAKS VOLUMES . As a victim of CSA & SA I really don’t appreciate THEIR ACTIONS . They have not been able to (all worker’s) get on the same page as the letters keep coming to my email . It’s a little bit of this and that being thrown out . Then stated it was done that way for the victims . Horsepucking ! Each and every worker that knew or suspected should have come forward immediately . There are more than Dean , that have this trait . They are ducking and diving around this . I have NO MERCY FOR THEM WHATSOEVER WITH GOOD REASON . I HAVE heard many stories from victims that are so twisted and evil it makes me sick . Things I don’t like to repeat but unfortunately I have to use the exact words for people . As for keeping the letters to a few people , they are wrong . Do you have any idea why some CSA OR SA victims committed suicide ? I have tried and been really pissed off to WAKE UP ! It wears you down and breaks you to that point . Sharing those letters made everyone aware of the evil and it’s time to protect CHILDREN is even NOW more important ! This is CSA or unhinged , whatever you choose to call it .
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