|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 31, 2023 23:22:01 GMT -5
We're all after some discernment and checking, I assure you. With some discernment and checking, the members of the fellowship mightn't have endure having to be taken for a ride by morallly bankrupt spiritual leaders. I think readers of the internet are intelligent enough to figure things out for themselves. In the context of the 2x2 fellowship, it's usually the only place they have access to true / historical information about the group. Was the post a little 'too close to home' for your comfort? Just noting, for the record, that your responses are all classic strawman.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Mar 31, 2023 23:56:58 GMT -5
Your mention of an another person's comments in another (private) forum is completely strange and inappropriate. They cannot be perused here, and people choose their own forums in which to participate, so go back to facebook where you are identifiable and respond to him there in context. Or perhaps it has gotten to hot for you. And stop idly flinging scripture about. Please don't be so condescending. The comments were made to a group of 700 people hardly a private setting. You don't seem to have any problem with people commenting on what a 2x2 or a worker says in private, but when it is a detailed analysis on baseless assumptions and speculation you don't think it should be called out? I wonder why the significant bias. The flinging of scripture is related directly to those arrogant enough to post a detailed analysis based on nothing more than speculation. I can mention it, respond to it and talk about it wherever I deem appropriate! A private forum is a private forum. You've taken a real identity in a private forum and placed it on here so you could have a shot at them without being identified. It's called cowardice. Go back to that private forum to do your flinging, and write a real response on there to call out the issues if they are really the "baseless assumptions and speculations" you allude to. Man up and shine that mirror so you can see your own reflection.
|
|
|
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 1, 2023 1:22:33 GMT -5
Was the post a little 'too close to home' for your comfort? Just noting, for the record, that your responses are all classic strawman. Appreciate your post. "A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted.
Readers can consider my post and your response and decide for themselves who made "classic strawman' response! 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by themaninthemirror on Apr 1, 2023 2:08:55 GMT -5
Please don't be so condescending. The comments were made to a group of 700 people hardly a private setting. You don't seem to have any problem with people commenting on what a 2x2 or a worker says in private, but when it is a detailed analysis on baseless assumptions and speculation you don't think it should be called out? I wonder why the significant bias. The flinging of scripture is related directly to those arrogant enough to post a detailed analysis based on nothing more than speculation. I can mention it, respond to it and talk about it wherever I deem appropriate! A private forum is a private forum. You've taken a real identity in a private forum and placed it on here so you could have a shot at them without being identified. It's called cowardice. Go back to that private forum to do your flinging, and write a real response on there to call out the issues if they are really the "baseless assumptions and speculations" you allude to. Man up and shine that mirror so you can see your own reflection. The point is valid whether it is posted here or there. The point is valid whether it is posted with a name or anonymously. Read the post with the many "suggests" and "implies". This is idle speak and speculation. Despite your bias, I am sure you see the point. It was meant slightly tongue in cheek.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Apr 1, 2023 3:22:24 GMT -5
Latest letter from Doyle S. Tap to enlarge. If this latest communication from Doyle fails to assure readers of the integrity and transparency with which he is handling this awful business. Then I don't think anything would/will.🤷♂️ There has been numerous incorrect statements and baseless speculation presented by a small clique of determined posters on this forum. It appears their primary motive is 'to have crack' at the church/fellowship they have come to despise, rather than have a primary concern for victims? I'm not expecting them to retract or apologise for their incorrect statements and baseless speculation/ 'alternative facts' that they have been seeking to influence readers of this forum with over the past week. Welcome to the Wild West world of the internet! Where without some discernment and checking, you'll get taken for a ride! Im sorry but integrity and transparency are words I do not associate with people who have become masters at manipulation. And it's naive to say it's people just having a crack at the church, it's people being sceptical after actual experiences of people from within the church not being transparent and not showing any integrity.
|
|
|
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 1, 2023 3:52:27 GMT -5
If this latest communication from Doyle fails to assure readers of the integrity and transparency with which he is handling this awful business. Then I don't think anything would/will.🤷♂️ There has been numerous incorrect statements and baseless speculation presented by a small clique of determined posters on this forum. It appears their primary motive is 'to have crack' at the church/fellowship they have come to despise, rather than have a primary concern for victims? I'm not expecting them to retract or apologise for their incorrect statements and baseless speculation/ 'alternative facts' that they have been seeking to influence readers of this forum with over the past week. Welcome to the Wild West world of the internet! Where without some discernment and checking, you'll get taken for a ride! Im sorry but integrity and transparency are words I do not associate with people who have become masters at manipulation. And it's naive to say it's people just having a crack at the church, it's people being sceptical after actual experiences of people from within the church not being transparent and not showing any integrity. You have expressed your view/perspective and experience....... as I did mine! : 👍
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Apr 1, 2023 6:51:19 GMT -5
Im sorry but integrity and transparency are words I do not associate with people who have become masters at manipulation. And it's naive to say it's people just having a crack at the church, it's people being sceptical after actual experiences of people from within the church not being transparent and not showing any integrity. You have expressed your view/perspective and experience....... as I did mine! : 👍 Im sure you have, it was also quite naive, unless you are a enabler.
|
|
|
Post by intelchips on Apr 1, 2023 9:09:21 GMT -5
Could it be that these problems arise because workers never preach purity? If Second Temple Judaism can be described as a system of myths, rituals and sacrifices that enabled the Jewish people to understand and maintain a relationship with their God, then purity is the state of being that made that relationship possible. According to the Torah, God’s continued presence among the Israelites was contingent upon his people maintaining a level of purity that was proportional to his holiness (Lev 19:2; Deut 23:14).
Generally speaking, the concept of impurity in the Hebrew Bible can be divided into two subcategories: moral and ritual. Although these terms are problematic and do not explicitly appear in the Scriptures, they never-the less describe two distinct states of existence. On the one hand, moral impurity is a lengthy if not permanent condition that is the consequence of avoidable or sinful acts, such as illicit sexual behavior (Lev 18; 20:10–26), murder (Num 35:33–34) and idolatry (Lev 19:4; 20:1–5). Moral impurity cannot be transmitted through direct contact, and it can only be expunged by engaging in acts of atonement or by punishing the offending individual. Ritual impurity, on the other hand, is the temporary consequence of largely unavoidable or non-sinful conditions, such as menstruation (Lev15:19–24), lawful sexual activity (Lev 15:16–18) and the burial of corpses (Num 19). Unlike moral impurity, ritual impurity is primarily transmitted through direct contact and those who have been rendered ritually impure are to be cleansed through a variety of lustrations, probationary periods and/or sacrifices.
When was the last time a worker called on someone to atone and become pure again?
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 9:31:24 GMT -5
New letter "Dear Northeast ND field, Hello. Phyllis, Brinna and I returned to the field on Tuesday. We are anxious to get started with gospel meetings, but we do not have clear direction yet, of where that should be. In light of the recent news about the misconduct of Dean Bruer, we wish we could be everywhere, with all of you. Not that we can do anything, but this is a shared grief and betrayal for all of us, and we all need reassurance and comfort and help. Everyone will be affected differently based on their own personal experiences in life. While we all share some of the same feelings of betrayal and hurt, others will be more deeply distressed if it comes close to other heartaches. We know that Dean has close ties with ND, and that adds another layer of hurt and betrayal for those who trusted and loved him as a family member and friend. All feelings are valid, and all feelings will come up as we try to process this. Please feel free to call us or let us know that you need a visit if that would be helpful to you. Or talk to other people you trust, or even seek professional help if you feel it would be a benefit. It seems so unbelievable! There seems to be plenty of evidence that his misconduct is real, and very serious. Dean was not behaving as just a weak human with normal desires, but as a sexual predator, expert at manipulating and keeping things hidden. Both adult and under-age victims have come forward. Of course all of us wonder HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? And now, what can we do so that it does not happen again or continue to happen. How it was hidden and how it was committed seems baffling to us, because normal people do not think the same as someone with these deviant desires. We want to encourage you, If you are ever feeling harassed or intimidated by ANYONE, EVER, please tell someone. Be careful of anyone who asks you to keep secrets, or promotes the idea that inappropriate behavior on their part is your fault. As much as we want to think the best of people, we have to acknowledge that there are skilled and sneaky predators in the world. If you see something, say something. We all feel betrayed because we trusted him. From our understanding, the first victims came forward after Dean had already died. Most of the workers on the ND/SD staff have only known about this since Friday or Saturday last week. None of us are experts at dealing with this, and we are trying to manage our own feelings as well as help others. We are doing our best to communicate openly and handle it wisely. We are feeling our way, praying and seeking help from God, as you all are. This experience shakes us deeply. I have found comfort in these reassurances to my own heart: Dean is dead. He is in the hands of an all knowing God. We do not need to personally condemn or excuse him. The judge of all the world will do right. "God is faithful to his chosen, in his dealings every day. Both in judgement and in mercy, all along the pilgrim way." A childlike spirit is still right and safe. With God, it is safe to trust. I don't have to fortify myself against this. I need to cling to the One who is 100% true. This gives Satan opportunity to attack us when we are shaken and vulnerable. But anything that is an opportunity for Satan is also an opportunity for God to help us get our feet more firmly on solid ground, and prove to us He is trustworthy and strong. We can come out of this spiritually enriched if we seek God's help. Please pray for us and we will for you. Stay in God's care, Sincerely, Phyllis, Brinna, and BethArlene"
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 9:31:56 GMT -5
New letter Friends, We felt it appropriate to send this word to you regarding some allegations that have arisen regarding an overseer, Dean Bruer, in the northwestern part of the country. As some of you may have heard by now, there are allegations against him involving serious immoral behavior that came to light after his unexpected death last summer, and only in recent days has been brought to our attention here. It seems that this matter has been investigated and is being handled appropriately by those now responsible in the states in which he worked. We write this to confirm that the rumors circulating about him seem to have validity, to express our sympathy to the victims there, and to open a door of communication to any in our states here that wish to speak more about it with us personally. We would also like you to understand that we have been proactive here in trying to prevent these issues. In recent years, as a precaution, all of the workers on our staff have taken the Ministrysafe course at least once (and many of us more than once). This course offers guidance on what is appropriate and inappropriate in our interactions with others, especially among our youth. We also see clearly the wisdom of the Lord in planning that we in this ministry work together in pairs as there is safety in this for both workers and saints. I have appreciated Paul's own testimony in I Thess. 2:10. "Ye are our witnesses, and God also, how holily, and justly, and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe:" We are sobered with the thought that we are living in the sight of God and before the Lord's people, and are open to examination by both. I trust that all on our staff have this desire & purpose to conduct ourselves accordingly among you. We do love each of you and don't want to be a disappointment to you in any way. Several have written us with words of encouragement and support at this difficult time and we greatly appreciate that! Thanks as well for your prayers for those affected and for all of us secking to keep ourselves upright in the Lord's work. 'Thank you for not forwarding this letter to others. Your brother, Kelvin Naef & the GA/SC/FL staff
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 9:33:27 GMT -5
Hhhhhmmmm This CSA Code of Conduct has been developed with the support of workers and friends of the fellowship. This is different from information being collected !
|
|
|
Post by Vinny T. on Apr 1, 2023 11:59:29 GMT -5
Info that is known thus far: * Victims across 11 states * 51 people being investigated * Another Overseer has stepped down hmmmm odd timing isn't it? * They knew of 2 victims of Dean Bruer since LAST SEPTEMBER yet they did NOT come forward til now. * They know of at least 3 children he molested/raped * There are many videos from the laptop from they are of is unknown I will give case numbers when I have them. But the case numbers won't come out til people are charged then names will be made public once people are charged. The wording of Doyle's last letter is deceptive but very incriminating if you break down the sentence structure and syntax. His positive and transparent spin is complete bullsh-. If the church was actually transparent they would have came forward in September of last year when they found out. Coming forward AFTER you meet with a private detective in a Shari's for 3.5 hours theeeen coming forward is in no way being transparent. These disgusting people hid it until they couldn't hide it. Then ONLY came forward when they had no choice. I personally have spoken to someone who is high up and not involved with the investigation but found out for me. This is Federal because perpetrators and money crossed state lines and involved multiple minors and there has been an ongoing effort to hid this and cover it up by moving guilty parties instead of involving the authorities. It's been going on for decades. This is going to blow the lid off of this vile and filthy people finally. It's about time. Excuse me, But your emotive language and statements in this post raises questions in my mind as to the veracity and accuracy of statements you make? 🤷♂️ It diminishes initial confidence I had after upon reading your first post on this forum. 🤷♂️ I invite you, when in the course of time you can, to prove that every single statement you have made above is true and factual! I will then apologise, thank you and withdraw this statement . God bless you Sir. * * * The fact of the matter regardless of anything is that it was I that said alot of things and cleared things up in my first post. It caused quite a stir and doubt was cast on what I said. Since my first post here is what happened: - Another Overseer has stepped down - Letters have now been written in over 11 States regarding allegations of many other incidents and victims not includung those connected to Bruer. - Doyle Smith has came out and said more statements stating he knew for almost a year that Bruer molested people including children. - The more statements they come out with show that they had NO INTENTION of coming forward. They were going to bury this like they do with every single other case like this. - Because they bury these things, discourage victims and do NOT alert the authorities this shows they are culpible in all these vile things that have happened the entire time. There is policy that has shown that they move an offender instead of dealing with the perpetrator properly so they cannot harm another person. They use money to do that from many sources. - Because a private investigator was involved prior to the laptop being turned in shows that there was an investigation across multiple States involving multiple people with multiple offenses already underway. It does not matter if you believe anything I say. As time goes on my statements are becoming known as fact. Many of the things I said have already been proven weather you believe it or not. Do I know more? Yes I do, yet I cannot say more due to not wanting to hinder investigations already in place. To be clear the only reason I am semi involved is because I called a dear friend of mine to make sure that things are handled properly and someone good is put in place on the Federal side of things because someone very very close to me was in the "Truth" for half her life. I want justice for all the victims and if I can help I will. This is why I am saying anything at all. I am wanting to help. If people believe me or not it does not matter because the things I have said and will say later WILL be proven and are being proven as time goes on. Therefore people should know by now that I have solid information. My emotive language I use is because I am extremely angry with organizations like this who have "Rules for thee but not for me" attitude. It's the mentality of ALL elite list people in any facet of society. Because of one reason or another they think they are superior to others and condone and allow these crimes to continue. I appreciate your concern ma'am but look at things logically. The things I've said are coming true...... God bless you and have a good day.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 1, 2023 13:20:55 GMT -5
Cell phone wipe. Even back in the early '90s there were programs available that can do military level wipes of computers and such. Some of them were 100% free to download and use. Back in the AOL days. I A$$ume that there are even better ones now. There are programs, you're right. However, I don't think that's what the workers did to the cell phone they wiped and gave to another workers. They likely only did a factory reset. If they did wipe it with anything else, that would be a bit more suspicious?
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 13:27:34 GMT -5
The capabilities in this time will have data that they think they wiped , however technology is more advanced than in the 90’s . A factory reset doesn’t erase anything .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 13:45:00 GMT -5
Cell phone wipe. Even back in the early '90s there were programs available that can do military level wipes of computers and such. Some of them were 100% free to download and use. Back in the AOL days. I A$$ume that there are even better ones now. There are programs, you're right. However, I don't think that's what the workers did to the cell phone they wiped and gave to another workers. They likely only did a factory reset. If they did wipe it with anything else, that would be a bit more suspicious? "Wiping" if it was true, at all, was suspicious. Won't know till things are released though. Just making people aware that there are things out there that may make this cell search moot...
|
|
|
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 1, 2023 14:26:45 GMT -5
Excuse me, But your emotive language and statements in this post raises questions in my mind as to the veracity and accuracy of statements you make? 🤷♂️ It diminishes initial confidence I had after upon reading your first post on this forum. 🤷♂️ I invite you, when in the course of time you can, to prove that every single statement you have made above is true and factual! I will then apologise, thank you and withdraw this statement . God bless you Sir. * * * The fact of the matter regardless of anything is that it was I that said alot of things and cleared things up in my first post. It caused quite a stir and doubt was cast on what I said. Since my first post here is what happened: - Another Overseer has stepped down - Letters have now been written in over 11 States regarding allegations of many other incidents and victims not includung those connected to Bruer. - Doyle Smith has came out and said more statements stating he knew for almost a year that Bruer molested people including children. - The more statements they come out with show that they had NO INTENTION of coming forward. They were going to bury this like they do with every single other case like this. - Because they bury these things, discourage victims and do NOT alert the authorities this shows they are culpible in all these vile things that have happened the entire time. There is policy that has shown that they move an offender instead of dealing with the perpetrator properly so they cannot harm another person. They use money to do that from many sources. - Because a private investigator was involved prior to the laptop being turned in shows that there was an investigation across multiple States involving multiple people with multiple offenses already underway. It does not matter if you believe anything I say. As time goes on my statements are becoming known as fact. Many of the things I said have already been proven weather you believe it or not. Do I know more? Yes I do, yet I cannot say more due to not wanting to hinder investigations already in place. To be clear the only reason I am semi involved is because I called a dear friend of mine to make sure that things are handled properly and someone good is put in place on the Federal side of things because someone very very close to me was in the "Truth" for half her life. I want justice for all the victims and if I can help I will. This is why I am saying anything at all. I am wanting to help. If people believe me or not it does not matter because the things I have said and will say later WILL be proven and are being proven as time goes on. Therefore people should know by now that I have solid information. My emotive language I use is because I am extremely angry with organizations like this who have "Rules for thee but not for me" attitude. It's the mentality of ALL elite list people in any facet of society. Because of one reason or another they think they are superior to others and condone and allow these crimes to continue. I appreciate your concern ma'am but look at things logically. The things I've said are coming true...... God bless you and have a good day. With due respect I repeat:I invite you, (when in the course of time you can,) to prove that every single statement you have made is true and factual! I will then apologise, thank you and withdraw this statement . God bless you Sir. Statements such as "I appreciate your concern ma'am but look at things logically. The things I've said are coming true...... "
Are not very confidence inspiring! I am looking at things logically! That is why I am questioning what you post! We all here want verifiable facts/ the truth, not more unverified unproven allegation and speculation. You write: "Therefore people should know by now that I have solid information."
Should we? You have provided nothing so far gives confidence in your 'solid information'. But rather some statements you make appear to contain speculation, some exaggeration and your personal feelings. Upon careful examination this far/ to date I have found truth and verifiable facts in the two emails/statements of Doyle Smith that as yet I have not found in your postings. I am waiting for confidence inspiring posting from you that will change how I feel. We want truth and verifiable facts please! God bless you Sir!
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 14:35:05 GMT -5
About another worker stepping down was yesterday’s news .
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 1, 2023 14:53:27 GMT -5
Well Snow, the article certainly supports the chicken came first theory. So we have two choices............either chickens were created, or we have to throw another 50 billion years at it? Well Wally has tried to tell us? The chicken obviously came first. A mindless universe couldn’t come up with the law of reproduction on its own. The clearly is a mind and a designer behind the scenes. If it's smart enough to make one, why not the other? It's supposed to be all from nothing anyway.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Apr 1, 2023 14:54:33 GMT -5
I have read the latest letter from Doyle over again and I do have one question. When the first victim came to him why wouldn't he go to the authorities to have it investigated? I know he says because they were adults and it's not mandatory to report it, but didn't he even think that it might be much more extensive than the 2 women that had come forward? It could have been reported without giving the names of the victims by just handing over the lap top when he found the porn and the phone just in case of further names that might be there. It might not have been mandatory because the 2 were adults, but from an investigative pov it should have been understood that it was important to involve the law in case there were others that just hadn't been brave enough to come forward. Also, a letter could have gone out to the friends at that point saying if anyone had inappropriate interactions with Dean because of information that has come to light, then at least the friends would know they weren't the only ones if that was the case and feel more safe reporting it. No names of the already known victims needed to be mentioned just an acknowledgement that this disturbing information had come to light. I totally understand the need to protect the victims. The point is both could have been done. Start an investigation earlier on, letters to the friends encouraging any more victims to come forward, and protecting the names of already known victims. I also recognize that hindsight is 20/20 so I hope that this will make the workers in the future recognize what needs to be done immediately so an investigation for more victims can be started. Well, snow, you bring up some good questions. Could it be, just maybe, the workers and friends, no matter how nice they are have some sort of "illusion" there are two systems of justice? One for the elite and connected and one for the regular folks. Being Dean was an overseer, who had just died, those two things may have caused the lag. Also, it could just be he simply had no idea what to do! We'll likely never know all these things because of the secretive nature of it. But I do know there are many in the faith including some workers who do not in any way like all the secrets. There is a very hard lesson for folks to learn here. Keeping secrets will eventually catch up to people, even after they die. Their two systems of justice are one for the 2x2's and one for the rest of the world.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Apr 1, 2023 15:18:57 GMT -5
The chicken obviously came first. A mindless universe couldn’t come up with the law of reproduction on its own. The clearly is a mind and a designer behind the scenes. If it's smart enough to make one, why not the other? It's supposed to be all from nothing anyway. True that. After all are we supposed to believe birds lay eggs for the sole purpose of humans having food? Or do suppose they are an process that helps them continue to be a viable species?
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 15:26:32 GMT -5
Being hoisted into a lap or on to a leg invokes too many emotions and pain . I would scream bloody murder , my father would gently grab me to (Safety) . I was not old enough to tell , it was many years before I told my parents . I would crawl under my bed when certain visitors came around . Again my father would gently pull me out when they were gone & tuck me into bed . However the damage was already done . SURVIVORS PLEASE KNOW YOU DID NOTHING WRONG ! It maybe tough to understand perhaps now or not yet . You did nothing wrong 😑
|
|
|
Post by Vinny T. on Apr 1, 2023 16:16:29 GMT -5
With due respect I repeat:I invite you, (when in the course of time you can,) to prove that every single statement you have made is true and factual! I will then apologise, thank you and withdraw this statement . God bless you Sir. Statements such as "I appreciate your concern ma'am but look at things logically. The things I've said are coming true...... "
Are not very confidence inspiring! I am looking at things logically! That is why I am questioning what you post! We all here want verifiable facts/ the truth, not more unverified unproven allegation and speculation. You write: "Therefore people should know by now that I have solid information."
Should we? You have provided nothing so far gives confidence in your 'solid information'. But rather some statements you make appear to contain speculation, some exaggeration and your personal feelings. Upon careful examination this far/ to date I have found truth and verifiable facts in the two emails/statements of Doyle Smith that as yet I have not found in your postings. I am waiting for confidence inspiring posting from you that will change how I feel. We want truth and verifiable facts please! God bless you Sir! If you think I have provided nothing then that tells me you haven't read my original post and the timing of it. I said many things that came to pass and more coming out all the time. I am not here to argue with people like you. Do I know more? Yes but I can't say those things as of yet because they are active investigations and being that they have hod things so much for decades it takes alot to uncover the truth about the Truth sect. You are very aggressive and sounds like you're wanting to defend them. That's sad honestly. These people have a standard policy to enable these pedophiles and sexual deviants by NOT reporting them so they can be stopped. The people in the "religious organization" care more about protecting there reputation and the work than doing the right thing for the victims and future victims. I am not going to argue with you or debate with you further. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I will continue to update and to clarify what I can and cannot say to give names and such yet will notify and warn the perpetrators. When they are formerly charged then I will go into much more detail. "IF" you knew anything about the law which you obviously have little knowledge then you would know what I can and can't say. I have given accurate statements before any of it came out. Sorry you don't see that. I have nothing to prove to you nor anyone as what I've said will continue to be proven accurate over time. I have said what I can and will say more when I'm able. If you can't respect the sanctity and procedures then there's not alot I can say that you will like. I don't see anyone else explaining things and breaking things down in an easy to understand format. I am NOT going to go down this aggressive back and forth with the likes of you. You and another on here are very similar. Have a good day and God bless you.
|
|
|
Post by internationalstudies on Apr 1, 2023 16:41:15 GMT -5
vinny We agree on this : "Right is right and wrong is wrong."
I have zero tolerance for other than integrity and transparency in the aftermath of this sordid matter. I'm seeing evidence of that in the two statements that Doyle Smith has made.
I see emotion, opinion and unsubstantiated statements in your posts. FACTS! verifiable and true! that's what means something and carries weight! God bless you and you too have a good day. p.s you will get a public apology and retraction from me if/when you present FACTS! verifiable and true!
|
|
|
Post by stargazer on Apr 1, 2023 16:45:15 GMT -5
I second Internationalstudies concern regarding the Vinny posts. There are wide range of representations to which only Vinny T seems to have proprietary access (at least here). When asked for substantiation, vinnyt seems angry. I’d suggest he might follow his own mantra for “transparency” or take a cue from admin here and post verifiable information.
It is without dispute that the underlying issues discussed here, (sexual misconduct with minors or others from a position of power) must be called out and dealt with.
Finally, it’s evident from the various overseer letters, that the outcries from a decade or so ago over this same issue have resonated and a good faith effort is being made to address the issues. Maybe not perfect, depending on ones view, but certainly progress.
|
|
|
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 1, 2023 17:05:15 GMT -5
Uuuhhhmmm Thank you so much Any information I post about are coming to me personally . Via email only at this time a few calls . I don’t really tend to be on Facebook , I am not on IG and whatever . I have done what I can for Calgary & Alberta legally . I hand it over and then it is outta my hands . Which is preferred . I can assure you , your names are blocked , and buried . I have provided a case number , you can remain anonymous . The goal is to support people be you a victim, victims and survivors AND FAMILY who are now reliving instead of woulda , coulda , shoulda . But we are moving ahead legally . That’s all we can do presently . Unless you need immediate help . Come forward when you ARE ABLE ! Across Alberta dial 911 and ask for police and their mental health partners .
|
|
|
Post by Vinny T. on Apr 1, 2023 17:33:29 GMT -5
vinny We agree on this : "Right is right and wrong is wrong."
I have zero tolerance for other than integrity and transparency in the aftermath of this sordid matter. I'm seeing evidence of that in the two statements that Doyle Smith has made.
I see emotion, opinion and unsubstantiated statements in your posts. FACTS! verifiable and true! that's what means something and carries weight! God bless you and you too have a good day. p.s you will get a public apology and retraction from me if/when you present FACTS! verifiable and true! * * * Not sure why in God's green Earth you find anything remotely similar to the truth from "Doyle Smith". Now I know why regardless of WHEN I post the case numbers which I can't yet and that is THE ONLY THING THAT YOU TYPE OF. PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE AND THEN YOU WILL FIND FAULT EVEN THEN I will say what I can when I can that doesn't undermine the integrity of the multiple investigations that are ongoing. The likes of you who belive the MANY contradicting statements of "Doyle Smith" and the many worker letters that have came out is simply amazing. Doyle Smith is a bold faced liar, period. It's not open for discussion. He contradicts himself, as well as do the workers letters. All of what they say cannot possibly be true. He is covering. It is really sad to see you believe the likes of DOYLE Smith who "in his own words" K N E W of victims that came forth as well as underage victims yet DID NOT COME FORWARD UUUUUUUNTIL a private investigator came and met with him. It's absildisgisting and shows he had zero intentions of being transparent and his ONLY goal was to keep it hidden because that's what him and all the rest do. They don't do the right thing unless their hand is forced. Your opinion is completely irrelevant ad to the facts at hand. He did NOT come forward until he had to, if he was going to he would have in the months prior. So please stop with your useless pandering, condoning and support of "The Truth" which is far far from being anything similar to the truth.
|
|
|
Post by butterfingers on Apr 1, 2023 17:51:37 GMT -5
Vinny, No one is saying that the believe Doyle. Just like we are saying that it is hard to believe what you say without the facts to prove it.
I can come on here and say "I know what is going on, I have lots of intel and I know all the people involved. There are 472 people going to prison for this and Vinny is one of them." Without proven facts, no one is going to believe it. It is the internet...
|
|
|
Post by butterfingers on Apr 1, 2023 18:01:50 GMT -5
Not sure that I understand your point, sorry Chuck. Can you elaborate? Yep no problem. "Our purpose as Christians and as messengers sent with the gospel, is to manifest our belief by our life and behavior among all people." Would it be fair to say Lyle's belief is "Jesus died to pay for his/our sin's"? My question is how do you manifest that belief?, well we know how Lyle manifests that belief, he goes around telling people that Jesus died to pay for their sins and in return they must behave a certain way to manifest their beliefs, part of that behaviour involves practising rituals and keeping traditions. This is a transaction. Jesus did x, so we must do y in order to receive x. If you know anything about Yom Kippur you know this transaction theory was not something that Jesus would have taught or told people to spread as good news. It's the antithesis of Yom Kippur and the Jewish philosophy. The reason I say it was also not the philosophy of 1st century people is it seems the wording in the original greek could be translated "Jesus died because of our sins", and to add to that in the first 1000 years of Christianity was the payment theory core to Christianity?. The Christ character most definitely dies because of our sins, Jesus dying to pay for our sins was popularised by Anselm according to Marcus Borg. I haven't found anything yet to counter his argument. I know fundementlists at this point would just quote "The Bible" or "the bible says" but if your presupposition is incorrect quoting the bible is worthless. marcusjborg.org/posts-by-marcus/lent-and-the-cross/Jesus died because of peoples sins. The Christ character cannot be buried, it rises again. This was told in various ways by various authors in their own particular way. To me it's a pity the wrong parts have been literalised through ignorance of the relevant cultures and their methods of passing things on and also their superstition because they didn't have the luxury knowing what we have learnt in the last 2000+ years. Hope this makes it clearer??. So you believe in predestination?
|
|