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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 14:15:39 GMT -5
Yes, he is the lousy excuse you use for every time your god fails to show up. He's very real and is very good at lies, what you believe now is a great example of what he can do... He's just a made up figure so that people can keep believing in their god when bad things happen on his watch. It's all just an ancient attempt at trying to figure out the world. That's how I see it and hopefully someday you too will understand it's all just man made. While there is life there's hope.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 14:19:05 GMT -5
Was "Officially" contacted by an elder today to be made aware of what happened. So, the WA/AK/ID only workers and elders are notified decision has either changed or is being ignored and relayed to everyone... What do you think of the effort to not let as many people know as possible? He was an overseer that travelled to many conventions world wide. Why are they only letting certain jurisdictions know? Are they being transparent enough in your opinion?
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Mar 28, 2023 14:23:00 GMT -5
From what I have heard they were adults? Anyone that knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. That's one thing wrong with the system. We were raised to believe elders and workers would never do such a thing and their word would be taken over ours because they could do no wrong. I think that has changed now to some degree, but when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's that was the understanding for sure. Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults. Yes as am I . Sister worker’s . We are no where close to the final picture of this horrific crime . The thought of being anywhere near to what may come .Is So disturbing . Then turning into the news ! Yet again a mass shooter in the USA 🇺🇸 . Children’s lives taken by someone who had mental health conditions . She was already flagged . I fear for my great grandchildren and what could happen at school . Fortunately we have gun laws in Canada 🇨🇦
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 14:34:41 GMT -5
He's very real and is very good at lies, what you believe now is a great example of what he can do... He's just a made up figure so that people can keep believing in their god when bad things happen on his watch. It's all just an ancient attempt at trying to figure out the world. That's how I see it and hopefully someday you too will understand it's all just man made. While there is life there's hope. Everyone is gonna see sooner or later, hopefully sooner, before they are at the point of no return...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 14:41:37 GMT -5
Was "Officially" contacted by an elder today to be made aware of what happened. So, the WA/AK/ID only workers and elders are notified decision has either changed or is being ignored and relayed to everyone... What do you think of the effort to not let as many people know as possible? He was an overseer that travelled to many conventions world wide. Why are they only letting certain jurisdictions know? Are they being transparent enough in your opinion? They've followed the law so far. And they have made at least some effort to fulfill the moral end of it. I've no doubts everyone knows now or at least enough know to inform others...I'm right on the line that they have been transparent enough.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Mar 28, 2023 14:47:32 GMT -5
Following the law would be that they contacted police immediately . They sat on the information . No excuses no matter whom or what you believe . They are guilty as well ! As parents are asking their children about Did anything happen ? As the female workers are finally taking back their power hopefully .
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 14:49:05 GMT -5
Ditto, although a couple of years earlier. I met TM (ex worker) in Canada, who had been shipped out of our country just one step ahead of the law. It was after meeting him at a 'union meeting" that I got told the truth by JB (worker) when I returned back to NZ. JB was not impressed by the behaviour of the overseer(s) at the time, and said he should have faced the full force of the law. Then there was another suspect, somewhere in the middle of the North Island, who's name I can't remember, but he got shifted.
Then there was an elder with a daughter in the work, who had many rumours floating around about him. Too well connected to be potted it seemed. And another well connected elder, who did get charged and convicted, but only received the proverbial slap with a wet bus ticket. It seemed to me, that if you were well connected, family in the work, or a rich donor, then the protection squad would be in full force. If on the other hand you were seen to "not have the spirit", because you asked for financial transparency, the riot squad would be called in.
I did not know that JB was not impressed with TM's removal. Also very disgusted was TH. I was told that he was put on a plane to Fiji only one squeak ahead of the law. The senior workers who were the enablers in this prank were WH, WP and WF. WH was the head worker. But look on the bright side. It enabled the church to continue to fly under the radar and its good name was not tarnished. I truly have a hard time understanding how anyone still in the church, that know this is happening, can continue to be in the group. But I guess it's hard to let go of the teaching that it's only this group that can guarantee salvation. Or just because they like the format of meetings in the home. But I imagine it's hard to stay under these circumstances.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 15:05:04 GMT -5
I did not know that JB was not impressed with TM's removal. Also very disgusted was TH. I was told that he was put on a plane to Fiji only one squeak ahead of the law. The senior workers who were the enablers in this prank were WH, WP and WF. WH was the head worker. But look on the bright side. It enabled the church to continue to fly under the radar and its good name was not tarnished. I truly have a hard time understanding how anyone still in the church, that know this is happening, can continue to be in the group. But I guess it's hard to let go of the teaching that it's only this group that can guarantee salvation. Or just because they like the format of meetings in the home. But I imagine it's hard to stay under these circumstances. It's everywhere not just in the 2x2's...My Aunt and Uncle and all their children and grandchildren left about 2010 over this issue in the Truth after 60+ years in it, they went Lutheran, if you do a bit of searching on the net the Lutherans have the same issue... Public schools, both male and female predators caught there for a long time now...it's everywhere not just religion... I guess one could go out into the woods 100's of miles from anywhere build a cabin and live happily ever after...appealing yes, realistic no...
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 15:07:33 GMT -5
From what I have heard they were adults? Anyone that knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. That's one thing wrong with the system. We were raised to believe elders and workers would never do such a thing and their word would be taken over ours because they could do no wrong. I think that has changed now to some degree, but when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's that was the understanding for sure. Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults. I did read the one that said only adults. So there were children too!
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 15:15:29 GMT -5
Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults. Yes as am I . Sister worker’s . We are no where close to the final picture of this horrific crime . The thought of being anywhere near to what may come .Is So disturbing . Then turning into the news ! Yet again a mass shooter in the USA 🇺🇸 . Children’s lives taken by someone who had mental health conditions . She was already flagged . I fear for my great grandchildren and what could happen at school . Fortunately we have gun laws in Canada 🇨🇦 The one letter had said adults but Verna has pointed out there was another letter that also included children that I missed. I was hoping he just was attracted to grown women when I read that. Then there would have been no children. Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case. We have had a couple shootings in Canada, but no where near how many that happen in the States. Thankfully. I worry for my grandchildren too. The shootings in Taber some years ago and the one in Saskatchewan were 2 too many for me.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 15:19:36 GMT -5
What do you think of the effort to not let as many people know as possible? He was an overseer that travelled to many conventions world wide. Why are they only letting certain jurisdictions know? Are they being transparent enough in your opinion? They've followed the law so far. And they have made at least some effort to fulfill the moral end of it. I've no doubts everyone knows now or at least enough know to inform others...I'm right on the line that they have been transparent enough. I think they were slow reporting it to authorities and turning over the laptop and hopefully the phone even though it was wiped. They knew fairly soon after he died what he had on his computer because they were looking for his list to tell them where he was assigning workers for conventions apparently. Why they waited 9 months to do anything with authorities is anyone's guess, but it's not a good look. I hope that it is now known by everyone. This one seems to have broken out of their hands so you could be right that most everyone knows.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 15:22:52 GMT -5
I truly have a hard time understanding how anyone still in the church, that know this is happening, can continue to be in the group. But I guess it's hard to let go of the teaching that it's only this group that can guarantee salvation. Or just because they like the format of meetings in the home. But I imagine it's hard to stay under these circumstances. It's everywhere not just in the 2x2's...My Aunt and Uncle and all their children and grandchildren left about 2010 over this issue in the Truth after 60+ years in it, they went Lutheran, if you do a bit of searching on the net the Lutherans have the same issue... Public schools, both male and female predators caught there for a long time now...it's everywhere not just religion... I guess one could go out into the woods 100's of miles from anywhere build a cabin and live happily ever after...appealing yes, realistic no... Oh I know it's everywhere. No doubt about that. The issue I would have with the F&W group is they seem to work harder than other institutions to keep it quiet. Religious groups in general seem to want to keep it a secret more than schools etc. More to lose I guess because they are the ones that claim to be morally superior?
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Post by verna on Mar 28, 2023 15:22:58 GMT -5
Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults. I did read the one that said only adults. So there were children too! Yes Doyle’s original letter included this line “His actions include rape and abuse of underage victims”. Very clear.
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 28, 2023 15:28:53 GMT -5
While it may seem repugnant to Christians, what DB is alleged to have done; in the eyes of the law, the only thing of interest is what is illegal. The possibilies are underage sex, rape, and possibly exercising power over someone against their will which can be interpreted as kidnapping. If an underage person, was handed to another offender, then trafficking could also be a charge. In DB's case this is probably unlikely. Speculation, and trial by social media is not helpful, and we just need to let the law take its course. Data can be examined without a victim being named, in most jurisdictions, and the reason for this is often victims names are aliases. My personal suspicion is that the sudden transparency, if that's what you can call it, is actually a poorly derived strategy to try and get ahead of the game. Data of a suspicious nature should have been immediately reported to police to let them make the judgement call. My personal belief is that they didn't want the information to come out, and it took third party action to force it after eight months. If young sister workers engaged in acts of impropriety, that isn't a crime in the eyes of the law.
The Doyle letter has the hallmarks of legal advice being sought for content approval, and is quite well written, apart from some typos. But it is about seven months too late.
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Post by mountain on Mar 28, 2023 15:51:07 GMT -5
While it may seem repugnant to Christians, what DB is alleged to have done; in the eyes of the law, the only thing of interest is what is illegal. The possibilies are underage sex, rape, and possibly exercising power over someone against their will which can be interpreted as kidnapping. If an underage person, was handed to another offender, then trafficking could also be a charge. In DB's case this is probably unlikely. Speculation, and trial by social media is not helpful, and we just need to let the law take its course. Data can be examined without a victim being named, in most jurisdictions, and the reason for this is often victims names are aliases. My personal suspicion is that the sudden transparency, if that's what you can call it, is actually a poorly derived strategy to try and get ahead of the game. Data of a suspicious nature should have been immediately reported to police to let them make the judgement call. My personal belief is that they didn't want the information to come out, and it took third party action to force it after eight months. If young sister workers engaged in acts of impropriety, that isn't a crime in the eyes of the law.
The Doyle letter has the hallmarks of legal advice being sought for content approval, and is quite well written, apart from some typos. But it is about seven months too late.
What was the role of the private investigator in this? Who employed this person and why? It seems things came to light after someone prompted a private investigation which seems to have resulted in the matter ultimately being reported to the police. Rather than the workers attempting to being ahead of the game, they might have been put in a position that they were forced to face up to their legal and moral responsibilities?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 15:53:39 GMT -5
It's everywhere not just in the 2x2's...My Aunt and Uncle and all their children and grandchildren left about 2010 over this issue in the Truth after 60+ years in it, they went Lutheran, if you do a bit of searching on the net the Lutherans have the same issue... Public schools, both male and female predators caught there for a long time now...it's everywhere not just religion... I guess one could go out into the woods 100's of miles from anywhere build a cabin and live happily ever after...appealing yes, realistic no... Oh I know it's everywhere. No doubt about that. The issue I would have with the F&W group is they seem to work harder than other institutions to keep it quiet. Religious groups in general seem to want to keep it a secret more than schools etc. More to lose I guess because they are the ones that claim to be morally superior? That wouldn't be true, it was fairly hidden in the Catholic church till about 20 years ago when the hammer fell...it was mentioned though as early as the late 16th century for them.
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Post by rbennit23 on Mar 28, 2023 16:09:47 GMT -5
2 offending workers in 7 months . Both dead now ! I am waiting for documents from the government . Our self appointed watchman has failed many …………….. jus sayin I am SCREAMING Trigger but it’s worth it Who was the other worker??? I hadn't heard about the other one besides Dean.... Dean is just one among more... At the top there MUST be a circle of pedos to keep things as quiet as they are trying to...
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Post by Annan on Mar 28, 2023 16:27:10 GMT -5
Not necessarily, there are many celibate people who don't engage in sexual promiscuity, and there are married people who have been convicted of CSA. What we are witnessing is perversion. What I don't get is how a Worker could lure underage people to a motel room? Where were the parents? If the first victim had come forth, how many others could have been saved from such abuse?
If any preacher wants to spend some alone time with one of your kids, all kinds of warning lights should start flashing!
Obituary quote; "Dean is fondly remembered from his time in the work by those he met and encouraged....Notes from his companions and others he interacted with along the way remember him for his kind nature, the love he showed them, and being a true “brother” to all.... He was faithful in reaching out to those he knew" Wow! Me thinks there were 2 sides to that coin, he certainly pulled the wool over some trusting eyes. Its just sad, if you can't even trust an Overseer, who can you trust in this crazy world?
From what I have heard they were adults? Anyone that knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. That's one thing wrong with the system. We were raised to believe elders and workers would never do such a thing and their word would be taken over ours because they could do no wrong. I think that has changed now to some degree, but when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's that was the understanding for sure. I've said this before. I told my dad once about CSA that was mentioned here. He said you were all liars. The attitude I grew up with is that if a worker had ever abused me that I would have been my fault for enticing them somehow. Just how my parents thought. Workers are never wrong.
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Post by mrdobalina on Mar 28, 2023 16:36:06 GMT -5
What do you think of the effort to not let as many people know as possible? He was an overseer that travelled to many conventions world wide. Why are they only letting certain jurisdictions know? Are they being transparent enough in your opinion? They've followed the law so far. And they have made at least some effort to fulfill the moral end of it. I've no doubts everyone knows now or at least enough know to inform others...I'm right on the line that they have been transparent enough. How much do you think Nathan knows about tnis? It almost feels like the missing link. He got away with absolute murder in this guy's jurisdiction and was definitely keeping something quiet by his own admission.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 16:42:00 GMT -5
They've followed the law so far. And they have made at least some effort to fulfill the moral end of it. I've no doubts everyone knows now or at least enough know to inform others...I'm right on the line that they have been transparent enough. How much do you think Nathan knows about tnis? It almost feels like the missing link. He got away with absolute murder in this guy's jurisdiction and was definitely keeping something quiet by his own admission. The day it was revealed on here. He called and we talked about it, then he went off to investigate. He was notified shortly after here I believe.
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Post by mrdobalina on Mar 28, 2023 16:48:18 GMT -5
How much do you think Nathan knows about tnis? It almost feels like the missing link. He got away with absolute murder in this guy's jurisdiction and was definitely keeping something quiet by his own admission. The day it was revealed on here. He called and we talked about it, then he went off to investigate. He was notified shortly after here I believe. Was he ever Dean's companion? I have a list of all Deans former companions and the area they worked in, however I'm not sure what Nathan's name is.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 17:13:44 GMT -5
Oh I know it's everywhere. No doubt about that. The issue I would have with the F&W group is they seem to work harder than other institutions to keep it quiet. Religious groups in general seem to want to keep it a secret more than schools etc. More to lose I guess because they are the ones that claim to be morally superior? That wouldn't be true, it was fairly hidden in the Catholic church till about 20 years ago when the hammer fell...it was mentioned though as early as the late 16th century for them. As I pointed out, religious groups seem more prone to trying to keep it secret. You don't need to be part of a religious group in order to worship your god. Supporting these institutions just allow them to thrive and continue to do what they do. Religious groups are avoidable vs schools etc. And, schools are becoming more proficient at addressing it now than religions.
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Post by snow on Mar 28, 2023 17:15:26 GMT -5
From what I have heard they were adults? Anyone that knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. That's one thing wrong with the system. We were raised to believe elders and workers would never do such a thing and their word would be taken over ours because they could do no wrong. I think that has changed now to some degree, but when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's that was the understanding for sure. I've said this before. I told my dad once about CSA that was mentioned here. He said you were all liars. The attitude I grew up with is that if a worker had ever abused me that I would have been my fault for enticing them somehow. Just how my parents thought. Workers are never wrong. Yes, that was the party line when I was growing up also. The workers were right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 17:36:12 GMT -5
I've said this before. I told my dad once about CSA that was mentioned here. He said you were all liars. The attitude I grew up with is that if a worker had ever abused me that I would have been my fault for enticing them somehow. Just how my parents thought. Workers are never wrong. Yes, that was the party line when I was growing up also. The workers were right. Mothers generation mostly thought that too, she still does today. From my shunning experience I've developed a little more negative opinion on that...
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Post by chuck on Mar 28, 2023 18:20:48 GMT -5
Celibacy isn't normal. Adding power to the celibate people only increases the risk. What was the inconvenience of marriage?. Children. They had to stay in people's homes so more issues if there are children. I remember married workers that went over seas and it was the only way they could get into some countries. John and Anna Mikletas (sp?) are a couple of workers that were in Greece that I remember. I have also heard of workers that had children that handed them over to one of the friends to raise. If they didn't stay in people's homes it might be more manageable. Religion taking precedent over children basically?.
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Post by Admin on Mar 28, 2023 18:28:43 GMT -5
From what I have heard they were adults? Anyone that knows different please correct me if I'm wrong. That's one thing wrong with the system. We were raised to believe elders and workers would never do such a thing and their word would be taken over ours because they could do no wrong. I think that has changed now to some degree, but when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's that was the understanding for sure. Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults.Please see these facts (as have been advised by workers), helpfully compiled and reported by CherieKroppSome may find it interesting how much the workers are disclosing in their notification letter. NOTE: For anyone claiming "it was consensual"--they may not have had all the info. See belowSOME of the Workers' notification letters did not mention details or nature of the crime/scandal (like Doyle's did). The letter (probably by Rob Newman in Calif) stated ambiguously: "Recently Doyle Smith and Scott Rauscher shared some very unfortunate and difficult information with us...Considering how serious and shocking these facts are... " Mark Huddle's letter (WA) stated: "Doyle didn’t know more until one sister came to him at Boring #2 about herself and Dean...As far as I know, other things have only surfaced very recently...There doesn't seem to be any need to go into more detail beyond this." The more recent letters popping up (in what appears to be a "form notification" used by various states and workers, including Merlin Afleck in Canada and Leroy Sandford ND/SD): "Dean Bruer has been accused of living an immoral double life, and there seems to be ample evidence to support these claims." Whereas Doyle's notification letter stated the following details: "We have come to the tragic conclusion that Dean Bruer had another side to his life...that Dean was a sexual predator...Dean had his own Best Western Hotel preferred customer account and spent a considerable amount of time and money in motels. As we all know, when he died last June, it was in a motel in Government Camp, OR; a place that he frequented. The receipts often included "two guests". Victims have come forward, and there was very confirming and incriminating evidence found on his computer and phone...His actions include rape and abuse of underage victims..
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Dean Bruer
Mar 28, 2023 18:32:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by verna on Mar 28, 2023 18:32:22 GMT -5
Snow. I’m confused. Are you saying that your understanding is that DB’s victims were all adults? If so I believe you are mistaken. One letter said this but the original letter clearly said children and adults. Please see these facts (as have been advised by workers), helpfully compiled and reported by @cherie Some may find it interesting how much the workers are disclosing in their notification letter. NOTE: For anyone claiming "it was consensual"--they may not have had all the info. See belowSOME of the Workers' notification letters did not mention details or nature of the crime/scandal (like Doyle's did). The letter (probably by Rob Newman in Calif) stated ambiguously: "Recently Doyle Smith and Scott Rauscher shared some very unfortunate and difficult information with us...Considering how serious and shocking these facts are... " Mark Huddle's letter (WA) stated: "Doyle didn’t know more until one sister came to him at Boring #2 about herself and Dean...As far as I know, other things have only surfaced very recently...There doesn't seem to be any need to go into more detail beyond this." The more recent letters popping up (in what appears to be a "form notification" used by various states and workers, including Merlin Afleck in Canada and Leroy Sandford ND/SD): "Dean Bruer has been accused of living an immoral double life, and there seems to be ample evidence to support these claims." Whereas Doyle's notification letter stated the following details: "We have come to the tragic conclusion that Dean Bruer had another side to his life...that Dean was a sexual predator...Dean had his own Best Western Hotel preferred customer account and spent a considerable amount of time and money in motels. As we all know, when he died last June, it was in a motel in Government Camp, OR; a place that he frequented. The receipts often included "two guests". Victims have come forward, and there was very confirming and incriminating evidence found on his computer and phone...His actions include rape and abuse of underage victims..
It sounds like you are suggesting that there were not underaged victims.
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Post by openingact34 on Mar 28, 2023 18:36:35 GMT -5
They've followed the law so far. And they have made at least some effort to fulfill the moral end of it. I've no doubts everyone knows now or at least enough know to inform others...I'm right on the line that they have been transparent enough. How much do you think Nathan knows about tnis? It almost feels like the missing link. He got away with absolute murder in this guy's jurisdiction and was definitely keeping something quiet by his own admission. I don't think they got along very well
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