Post by Annan on Mar 22, 2022 6:42:50 GMT -5
Some writings of mine from yesteryear I found recently...
When Jesus said, “He was a murderer from the first, and he has nothing to do with the truth, for there is no truth in him.” He was speaking of the God by whom the coming of death into the world is explained in the book of Genesis. He is the deity who first made Adam capable of evil, and then condemned him to death for the quality he himself had made. He is the author of death, the destroyer, and torturer of his own creation. He is, again, as Jesus said, “a murderer from the first.” The God to whom Jesus gave honor was not a murderer, and the sons of this Father were not subject to the bondage of Adam. This is from Christian Science beliefs. I do not believe in sin or punishment for such by a deity, but I do believe we reap what we sow by our own hand.
Jesus said many times that "the Kingdom of God is here now.” It isn’t some future event to happen. The disciples didn’t believe that. They ran and hid when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was telling us also by his crucifixion and resurrection that life is continuous. It never ends. The body dies (or changes) but life continues forever for those that believe so.
In my opinion, the first creation in Genesis is perfect. Finished perfect and closed perfect. This perfection is based on the Knowledge of the Lord. This is not in Genesis but is presented in Isaiah. The creation is the likeness of its creator and therefore is good and only good.
In the second creation an imperfect God creates an imperfect world. This deity is exactly like the world he creates. The history of the Bible is the history of this obvious God. When Jesus said, “He was a murderer from the first, and he has nothing to do with the truth, for there is no truth in him.” He was speaking of the God by whom the coming of death into the world is explained in the book of Genesis. He is the deity who first made Adam capable of evil, and then condemned him to death for the quality he himself had made. He is the author of death, the destroyer, and torturer of his own creation. He is, again, as Jesus said, “a murderer from the first.” The God to whom Jesus gave honor was not a murderer, and the sons of this Father were not subject to the bondage of Adam.
“God is light; there is no darkness in him at all.” I John. This is the message that Jesus remained faithful to throughout his ministry. Jesus maintained the existence of a perfect God, a God of light only.
Backing up a bit, in the book of Job, Job discovers that he cannot fathom the miracle of nature let alone understand God. No questions are answered here. The search for God and what is the truth of God begins. Job serves as an emblem of the passion of the search, a great hunger and thirst. Job did believe however that God was the author of good as well as evil. King David believed this also believing God took his son's life. The prophet Elijah did not believe this and in his belief, life was restored to the widow's son. (I'm sure you know the story.) Knowledge of God is what sets us free and gives us the 'life' that Jesus tried to teach. Jesus in my opinion did not die for man's sin, but for man's lack of understanding of the truth of God.
I believe 'sin' as evil does not exist. It exists only in the mind of man. My so-called God is good and only good and is capable of nothing else. But therein is another story . . . if sin or evil does not exist, then does good? To me life is all about change and only change. Nothing else. Believe me when I say I beat my head against the wall many times over this.
I do not believe in original sin. Why do I call him “God”? Simply because everyone understands who or what I am taking about. I do not believe in the concept of good and evil and subsequent punishment (further explanation to come), so therefore my god is exactly that, god and not God. My god does not have a face but it that unknown cosmic consciousness that “created” life in all its forms. And by “life” I mean all that is as all creation has movement (atoms and protons and all that stuff).
In my opinion, the first three chapters of Genesis do not tell of one creation but two. In the first chapter and into the second, God creates the world. In this first creation everything is “finished” and pronounced “good.” (Gen. 2.1-2) Nothing can be added to this creation and nothing taken away. Then, beginning with the fourth verse of the second chapter, another God creates a different kind of world altogether. This God creates the world all over again with different results. These two accounts cannot be reconciled. The first creator is an orderly God who creates an orderly world of light and peace that is “very good.” Also this God creates by his word and does not labor and has no need of “rest” as does the second creator. There is no death in the first creation for this God gives “all the green plants for food.” (Gen. 1.30) This world is one of serenity and order and there is no opportunity given for any disorder to enter in as this world was created in the image of its creator. This perfect world is the world the prophets of Israel believed would be established on “the day of the Lord.” Problem was, this world did already exist and was dependent upon “the knowledge of the Lord” that Jesus taught. As to the word “good” that I use, I mean this not in the sense of good as the opposite of evil, but as the finished creation of a perfect God. Perhaps perfection then instead of good?
The second creator although the OT has no control over his unruly creation. He can punish sin but cannot prevent it. This God can control his creations body but not its mind. This God threatens his creation with punishment. To have introduced the serpent and sin into the first creation story would have rendered God imperfect. Given such an existence as man sees his world with pain and death, the kind of God who would make such a world fits perfectly with the second creation of imperfect people from an imperfect God. I am not saying God is imperfect but the common conception of Him. Death exists in the world, from our lack of understanding, so a creation story must fit the bill. And this I found extremely interesting: In the second creation Adam was made from the earth. He was made from pre-existing material. So the manner of his making speaks his coming death.
And then there’s Adam’s loneliness. The second God attempts to comfort Adam by making animals. Adam wants someone “like him”, so Eve is created, again out of pre-existing material (Adam). This from a God who knows all?
The story of Adam and Eve tells exactly what it was designed for, to give an origin to and explain not only death, but guilt, fear, lust and pain. The seeds of which are found not in the Fall of Man but in his creation in the second creation story, the foundation of Judaism and Christianity. The Bible’s reverence makes it hard for one to recognize the fundamental differences in these two creations. Scholars believe Genesis, like many other books of the OT, are a conglomeration of many documents and not the work of a single man. It is believed that after careful consideration both accounts of Genesis were left in the Bible for the reader to his own interpretation. The editor(s) could not give up the dream of a perfect world and a perfect God and so in hope left in the account of the perfect creation.
I do not see two “Gods” but one God who is perfect and good. The other “God” is man’s conception or image of God as the creator in the second creation story. There is only one true God and he and his creation are perfect and good. Again this is my view as not believing in sin and redemption and consequently it does throw a different light on the subject.
I was referencing an old journal of mine when I mentioned Isaiah and the second creation and I’m not sure what exactly I was referring to when I wrote that except to say that Isaiah, like all the great prophets, understood that a perfect world would appear when the Truth of God was understood. There are two views of sin and punishment in Isaiah. The first is the punishment of the people as the object of sin and the second is the removal of said sin . . . the opening of their eyes through knowledge of a "good and perfect God".
In my opinion, we once we had the instincts of animals, hence the Garden of Eden. Our self-awareness evolved and with it awe and contemplation of the world around us. I imagine it was only natural to "sing" the praises of said world . When the world changed and man was forced to "toil for his daily bread", he experienced the arts in a whole new way. "Sin" is simply a metaphor for self-awareness in the second widely accepted creation story.
So the first creation story is the Garden of Eden and the second creation story is the story of man's self-awareness. So perhaps they are simply one story after all. Of course this differs from the Christian view, but I'm not a Christian. And so it goes...
I was referencing an old journal of mine when I mentioned Isaiah and the second creation and I’m not sure what exactly I was referring to when I wrote that except to say that Isaiah, like all the great prophets, understood that a perfect world would appear when the Truth of God was understood. There are two views of sin and punishment in Isaiah. The first is the punishment of the people as the object of sin and the second is the removal of said sin . . . the opening of their eyes through knowledge of a "good and perfect God".
Oh and I found this reference to Leviathan as a metaphor for said sin. “On that day will the Lord punish, with His sword that is hard and great and strong, Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the coiled serpent; And He will slay the dragon that is in the sea.” Isa. 27.1 “It is not the vineyard that will be destroyed, but only the weeds that have choked it.” ~ The Search, Marchette Chute.
The prophets of Israel did not want the God of Adam and Eve, they wanted the Truth of God. Again, Elijah doubted the God of Adam and Eve and because of his doubt, the child lived. The last and greatest prophet of Israel had the same experience as all the others in that he was called a madman and a blasphemer by those who worshiped the God of Adam. Only the prophets, long dead, would have recognized and welcomed Jesus as the fulfillment of Isaiah’s promise of the Great Day of the Lord.
Okay, now to Jesus . . . (I am trying to keep this brief, really!) Jesus refused to honor or acknowledge the God of Adam under who’s bondage the world lived. He preached a perfect God as the author of all life. Jesus died not to show a risen life after death but a continuous never-ending life. IMO the “sin” he died for was lack of understanding of and seeking the God of Truth and Perfection. Jesus refused to admit that Joseph was his father or that Mary was his mother. “I live because of the Father.” John 6.57 This principle of existence is the same that was perceived by Moses when he claimed God’s name to be I AM. Life as Jesus taught meant union with the father. Through this union of the mind/understanding was Jesus able to do his miracles which were not miracles as such, but that which showed example of God’s perfect creation. Jesus was God’s only son as he was the only man ever to understand and live in true relationship to God.
Getting back to the first chapter of Genesis where it says God told beast and man both to be fruitful and multiply, if you view birth as a replacement for death then death was already on the earth. Or is it simply our perception of death? I see death as change and, in my opinion, Jesus taught that life is continuous, therefore life never ends. So in this case it is our perception that has changed.
No offense intended to anyone, but it is laughable in my mind to think that a God that created the world, universe, all that exists had to write to book to control his unruly creation.
When Jesus said, “He was a murderer from the first, and he has nothing to do with the truth, for there is no truth in him.” He was speaking of the God by whom the coming of death into the world is explained in the book of Genesis. He is the deity who first made Adam capable of evil, and then condemned him to death for the quality he himself had made. He is the author of death, the destroyer, and torturer of his own creation. He is, again, as Jesus said, “a murderer from the first.” The God to whom Jesus gave honor was not a murderer, and the sons of this Father were not subject to the bondage of Adam. This is from Christian Science beliefs. I do not believe in sin or punishment for such by a deity, but I do believe we reap what we sow by our own hand.
Jesus said many times that "the Kingdom of God is here now.” It isn’t some future event to happen. The disciples didn’t believe that. They ran and hid when Jesus was crucified. Jesus was telling us also by his crucifixion and resurrection that life is continuous. It never ends. The body dies (or changes) but life continues forever for those that believe so.
In my opinion, the first creation in Genesis is perfect. Finished perfect and closed perfect. This perfection is based on the Knowledge of the Lord. This is not in Genesis but is presented in Isaiah. The creation is the likeness of its creator and therefore is good and only good.
In the second creation an imperfect God creates an imperfect world. This deity is exactly like the world he creates. The history of the Bible is the history of this obvious God. When Jesus said, “He was a murderer from the first, and he has nothing to do with the truth, for there is no truth in him.” He was speaking of the God by whom the coming of death into the world is explained in the book of Genesis. He is the deity who first made Adam capable of evil, and then condemned him to death for the quality he himself had made. He is the author of death, the destroyer, and torturer of his own creation. He is, again, as Jesus said, “a murderer from the first.” The God to whom Jesus gave honor was not a murderer, and the sons of this Father were not subject to the bondage of Adam.
“God is light; there is no darkness in him at all.” I John. This is the message that Jesus remained faithful to throughout his ministry. Jesus maintained the existence of a perfect God, a God of light only.
Backing up a bit, in the book of Job, Job discovers that he cannot fathom the miracle of nature let alone understand God. No questions are answered here. The search for God and what is the truth of God begins. Job serves as an emblem of the passion of the search, a great hunger and thirst. Job did believe however that God was the author of good as well as evil. King David believed this also believing God took his son's life. The prophet Elijah did not believe this and in his belief, life was restored to the widow's son. (I'm sure you know the story.) Knowledge of God is what sets us free and gives us the 'life' that Jesus tried to teach. Jesus in my opinion did not die for man's sin, but for man's lack of understanding of the truth of God.
I believe 'sin' as evil does not exist. It exists only in the mind of man. My so-called God is good and only good and is capable of nothing else. But therein is another story . . . if sin or evil does not exist, then does good? To me life is all about change and only change. Nothing else. Believe me when I say I beat my head against the wall many times over this.
I do not believe in original sin. Why do I call him “God”? Simply because everyone understands who or what I am taking about. I do not believe in the concept of good and evil and subsequent punishment (further explanation to come), so therefore my god is exactly that, god and not God. My god does not have a face but it that unknown cosmic consciousness that “created” life in all its forms. And by “life” I mean all that is as all creation has movement (atoms and protons and all that stuff).
In my opinion, the first three chapters of Genesis do not tell of one creation but two. In the first chapter and into the second, God creates the world. In this first creation everything is “finished” and pronounced “good.” (Gen. 2.1-2) Nothing can be added to this creation and nothing taken away. Then, beginning with the fourth verse of the second chapter, another God creates a different kind of world altogether. This God creates the world all over again with different results. These two accounts cannot be reconciled. The first creator is an orderly God who creates an orderly world of light and peace that is “very good.” Also this God creates by his word and does not labor and has no need of “rest” as does the second creator. There is no death in the first creation for this God gives “all the green plants for food.” (Gen. 1.30) This world is one of serenity and order and there is no opportunity given for any disorder to enter in as this world was created in the image of its creator. This perfect world is the world the prophets of Israel believed would be established on “the day of the Lord.” Problem was, this world did already exist and was dependent upon “the knowledge of the Lord” that Jesus taught. As to the word “good” that I use, I mean this not in the sense of good as the opposite of evil, but as the finished creation of a perfect God. Perhaps perfection then instead of good?
The second creator although the OT has no control over his unruly creation. He can punish sin but cannot prevent it. This God can control his creations body but not its mind. This God threatens his creation with punishment. To have introduced the serpent and sin into the first creation story would have rendered God imperfect. Given such an existence as man sees his world with pain and death, the kind of God who would make such a world fits perfectly with the second creation of imperfect people from an imperfect God. I am not saying God is imperfect but the common conception of Him. Death exists in the world, from our lack of understanding, so a creation story must fit the bill. And this I found extremely interesting: In the second creation Adam was made from the earth. He was made from pre-existing material. So the manner of his making speaks his coming death.
And then there’s Adam’s loneliness. The second God attempts to comfort Adam by making animals. Adam wants someone “like him”, so Eve is created, again out of pre-existing material (Adam). This from a God who knows all?
The story of Adam and Eve tells exactly what it was designed for, to give an origin to and explain not only death, but guilt, fear, lust and pain. The seeds of which are found not in the Fall of Man but in his creation in the second creation story, the foundation of Judaism and Christianity. The Bible’s reverence makes it hard for one to recognize the fundamental differences in these two creations. Scholars believe Genesis, like many other books of the OT, are a conglomeration of many documents and not the work of a single man. It is believed that after careful consideration both accounts of Genesis were left in the Bible for the reader to his own interpretation. The editor(s) could not give up the dream of a perfect world and a perfect God and so in hope left in the account of the perfect creation.
I do not see two “Gods” but one God who is perfect and good. The other “God” is man’s conception or image of God as the creator in the second creation story. There is only one true God and he and his creation are perfect and good. Again this is my view as not believing in sin and redemption and consequently it does throw a different light on the subject.
I was referencing an old journal of mine when I mentioned Isaiah and the second creation and I’m not sure what exactly I was referring to when I wrote that except to say that Isaiah, like all the great prophets, understood that a perfect world would appear when the Truth of God was understood. There are two views of sin and punishment in Isaiah. The first is the punishment of the people as the object of sin and the second is the removal of said sin . . . the opening of their eyes through knowledge of a "good and perfect God".
In my opinion, we once we had the instincts of animals, hence the Garden of Eden. Our self-awareness evolved and with it awe and contemplation of the world around us. I imagine it was only natural to "sing" the praises of said world . When the world changed and man was forced to "toil for his daily bread", he experienced the arts in a whole new way. "Sin" is simply a metaphor for self-awareness in the second widely accepted creation story.
So the first creation story is the Garden of Eden and the second creation story is the story of man's self-awareness. So perhaps they are simply one story after all. Of course this differs from the Christian view, but I'm not a Christian. And so it goes...
I was referencing an old journal of mine when I mentioned Isaiah and the second creation and I’m not sure what exactly I was referring to when I wrote that except to say that Isaiah, like all the great prophets, understood that a perfect world would appear when the Truth of God was understood. There are two views of sin and punishment in Isaiah. The first is the punishment of the people as the object of sin and the second is the removal of said sin . . . the opening of their eyes through knowledge of a "good and perfect God".
Oh and I found this reference to Leviathan as a metaphor for said sin. “On that day will the Lord punish, with His sword that is hard and great and strong, Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the coiled serpent; And He will slay the dragon that is in the sea.” Isa. 27.1 “It is not the vineyard that will be destroyed, but only the weeds that have choked it.” ~ The Search, Marchette Chute.
The prophets of Israel did not want the God of Adam and Eve, they wanted the Truth of God. Again, Elijah doubted the God of Adam and Eve and because of his doubt, the child lived. The last and greatest prophet of Israel had the same experience as all the others in that he was called a madman and a blasphemer by those who worshiped the God of Adam. Only the prophets, long dead, would have recognized and welcomed Jesus as the fulfillment of Isaiah’s promise of the Great Day of the Lord.
Okay, now to Jesus . . . (I am trying to keep this brief, really!) Jesus refused to honor or acknowledge the God of Adam under who’s bondage the world lived. He preached a perfect God as the author of all life. Jesus died not to show a risen life after death but a continuous never-ending life. IMO the “sin” he died for was lack of understanding of and seeking the God of Truth and Perfection. Jesus refused to admit that Joseph was his father or that Mary was his mother. “I live because of the Father.” John 6.57 This principle of existence is the same that was perceived by Moses when he claimed God’s name to be I AM. Life as Jesus taught meant union with the father. Through this union of the mind/understanding was Jesus able to do his miracles which were not miracles as such, but that which showed example of God’s perfect creation. Jesus was God’s only son as he was the only man ever to understand and live in true relationship to God.
Getting back to the first chapter of Genesis where it says God told beast and man both to be fruitful and multiply, if you view birth as a replacement for death then death was already on the earth. Or is it simply our perception of death? I see death as change and, in my opinion, Jesus taught that life is continuous, therefore life never ends. So in this case it is our perception that has changed.
No offense intended to anyone, but it is laughable in my mind to think that a God that created the world, universe, all that exists had to write to book to control his unruly creation.
