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Post by reporter on Jul 28, 2007 0:06:41 GMT -5
I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet.
Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God".
So bert, prue, Nathan, GloryInTruth, WantToBeWithGod, et al..... sorry t' shock you like this, but I thought you outta know - yer with the rest of us now!!!!!!!
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Post by ranman77007 on Jul 28, 2007 0:11:54 GMT -5
well i got news for you...
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Post by ithascome on Jul 28, 2007 0:34:04 GMT -5
Workers Say it.... it must be true!!!
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Post by Anonymous on Jul 28, 2007 0:48:30 GMT -5
I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet. Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God". So bert, prue, Nathan, GloryInTruth, WantToBeWithGod, et al..... sorry t' shock you like this, but I thought you outta know - yer with the rest of us now!!!!!!! Good post and good thoughts from the worker. Get back to the basics and fit in!
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Post by and he would be on Jul 28, 2007 1:02:49 GMT -5
I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet. Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God". So bert, prue, Nathan, GloryInTruth, WantToBeWithGod, et al..... sorry t' shock you like this, but I thought you outta know - yer with the rest of us now!!!!!!! Which state are you in? Who is this overseer?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 28, 2007 1:05:29 GMT -5
well, reporter, this may be a shock to you (although I've said it 12.7 million times) but *I am not professing as of now anyway**not for the last SIXTEEN years* Shhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeesh. M.
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Post by reality on Jul 28, 2007 5:21:03 GMT -5
well, reporter, this may be a shock to you (although I've said it 12.7 million times) but *I am not professing as of now anyway**not for the last SIXTEEN years* Shhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeesh. M. Thou art not far from the workers' kingdom.
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 28, 2007 5:36:17 GMT -5
[Someone Wrote] Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God".
I would completely agree with this overseer. Anyone who accesses materials on the internet published by the ex-2x2s will certainly find a multitude of competing views and philosophical approaches that will cause serious headspin. Some ex-2x2s are devoted Calvinists, Reformed Baptists and so on, whilst others advocate an Arminian perspective ("soft Baptist"), and a few have even would up unrepentant Roman Catholics who recieve every word from the Holy See as though it were, in fact, Holy Writ.
A thousand viewpoints persist. Some will, like Brad, claim the fellowship is a house of demons, others will say that it is generally alright, but needs a bit of a spring clean to remove some of the Victorian dust. Feeding on such things does not draw one closer to God.
[Someone Wrote] So bert, prue, Nathan, GloryInTruth, WantToBeWithGod, et al..... sorry t' shock you like this, but I thought you outta know - yer with the rest of us now!!!!!!!
As my fellow apologists will agree, our function is interaction (although what passes for interaction on this board is often quite sad), answering objections and defending the Faith, the Lord, and the fellowship from heterodox thinking, of which there is much. I frequently recieve messages from "lurkers" who have been particularly moved, and glad, for some aspect of our discussion, which proves to me that we are doing some good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2007 5:51:11 GMT -5
quote - "I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet."
Dunno about that. I consider Las to be a friend of mine! (love to read his quirky one-liners.) I connect with Scott because he likes bikes! Like to go to Israel with Selah! If I go to NY I might call in on Gene! I miss Teenager! Loved reading RobO.
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Post by John on Jul 28, 2007 6:48:30 GMT -5
Does anyone pay any attention to the views of overseers these days? Surely for these guys the game is now up. Having been exposed as merely the heirs of the clown that is Irvine, does anyone under the age of sixty take what they say seriously anymore?
As for the statement itself - it appears that the information on the internet is still perceived by some as a threat to the sect hence the rather ridiculous attempt to strke fear into the congregation with all the child of God talk. It reminds me of a prevous era when workers instructed members to burn copies of the Secret Sect. I'd like to know the name of this guy and his current state of mind. Does anyone with any credibility really believe that by accessing the internet to learn about the origins of the 2x2 church, God will somehow cease to think of you as one of His children? Just think how how ridiculous this sounds. Old man, get real!
The information landslide that is the internet has started to roll and will not cease to keep rolling until the very last member of the sect is aware of the man made origins of the sect and all the cover up and hypocrisy that goes with it. The power of the platform to control the flow of information has long gone even if this overseer guy has not yet woken up to the fact. Thanks to the internet the people are no longer fools.
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nothing to do with the net
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Post by nothing to do with the net on Jul 28, 2007 6:54:37 GMT -5
Back in the old days when everyone knew Irvine and his antics we had tremendous growth in numbers. the internet just carries on from TV and radio in its effect upon all religious beliefs
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Post by which way on Jul 28, 2007 7:37:02 GMT -5
quote - "I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet." Dunno about that. I consider Las to be a friend of mine! (love to read his quirky one-liners.) I connect with Scott because he likes bikes! Like to go to Israel with Selah! If I go to NY I might call in on Gene! I miss Teenager! Loved reading RobO.Thanks for providing yet another example of how members of the fellowship use dual meaning to sidestep. My own dear mother was quite skillful at this practice, so I have been well aquainted with it over many years. Some of her favorites were "friend", "way", and "truth". Any way, I am no longer in the way because I was just getting in the way of those who still believed that the way they were in was the way that could be traced to the shores of Gallilee. When it became clear that this way can only be traced back to Ireland, the story changed to the waythings are done in this way is the closest to the way things were done back in the NT. By the way I hope this isn't getting way over your head. This is a simple way. If you are most despised for your bun, it is just proof that you are in the right way. It all goes way back to the way
. Don't get me started on friend . My friend Bert who is a friend has already provided an example.
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Post by freespirit on Jul 28, 2007 8:26:35 GMT -5
Hmm... IMO, it be more accurate to say, ONE worker said that rather than "the workers" believe X. *shrug* We all have opinions. That is that man's. I have yet to be in a group, family, organization where everyone thinks exactly alike--personally I think this is a good thing. I'm okay with him believing anything he wants to believe as long as he's not vandalizing my house and taking a sledge hammer to my Internet should he ever come over. One more reason we have to look to God and pray for a clear answer for ourselves about how we should live our own lives. peace to all, freespirit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2007 8:44:32 GMT -5
The poster who made the comment about waning overseer influence is at least partially correct. No, it's not that they have no influence over people any more, but their influence has certainly declined.
There does remain a core of people who view the workers, especially the overseers, as almost synonymous with God. It is sort of a self induced trance that has come about by the decision to accept everything a worker says as though it came directly from God and must be right. So then listen, and accept. No matter if deep down their soul is being offended by wrong preaching, they have managed mentally deflect mistakes and the occasional evil that comes from workers.
This is a fascinating subject. I have been in meetings where some outrageous and ridiculous thing is said, look around and see all these smiling people nodding their heads in agreement. It's nothing short of amazing, especially when some of the same people are extremely discerning in all other aspects of their lives. How they compartmentalize things like this is difficult to comprehend. Perhaps it's a little like abused children who turn off all negativity toward their abusive parent, it's a survival mechanism.
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Post by amazed on Jul 28, 2007 14:17:32 GMT -5
quote - "I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet." Dunno about that. I consider Las to be a friend of mine! (love to read his quirky one-liners.) I connect with Scott because he likes bikes! Like to go to Israel with Selah! If I go to NY I might call in on Gene! I miss Teenager! Loved reading RobO.Last I knew, Gene was in Switzerland. Did he move again?
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Post by waiting for you on Jul 28, 2007 14:46:21 GMT -5
I was shocked today to learn that there are absolutely no friends on the internet. Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God". So bert, prue, Nathan, GloryInTruth, WantToBeWithGod, et al..... sorry t' shock you like this, but I thought you outta know - yer with the rest of us now!!!!!!! Which state are you in? Who is this overseer?
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Post by zorro unplugged on Jul 28, 2007 15:11:20 GMT -5
Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God".
I would completely agree with this overseer. Anyone who accesses materials on the internet published by the ex-2x2s will certainly find a multitude of competing views and philosophical approaches that will cause serious headspin.
GiT, IMO, this response falls short of your usual depth of insight. First of all, the overseer didn't say anything about "exes", but the internet, in general. Of course, that could be assumed as implied, but it is an assumption, nonetheless. Secondly, a multitude of competing views and philosophical approaches are just as certainly expressed by current members of the fellowship. The diversity of beliefs regarding the Trinity, for example, ranges from the classic, orthodox belief to dyed-in-the-wool Arianism. You defend the basic tenants of Calvinism on one hand, and Diet Coke/Leftshoe defends an extremely liberal worldview on the other.
Personally, I think the real question is why would he feel compelled to make such a statement? Is such a broad stroked definition of a "child of God" REALLY true? Is it REALLY scriptural?
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Post by zorro unplugged on Jul 28, 2007 15:59:54 GMT -5
As my fellow apologists will agree, our function is interaction (although what passes for interaction on this board is often quite sad), answering objections and defending the Faith, the Lord, and the fellowship from heterodox thinking, of which there is much.
Honestly, I'm suprised by this comment, as well. If we choose just 3 posters, in addition to yourself, Nathan, Bert and Diet Coke.....how many issues do you believe you could stand united in defending?
Inerrancy of scripture? No.
Election? No.
Perserverance of the saints? No.
Christ's deity? No.
The Trinity? No.
I'm not trying to drag any individual's beliefs through the mud, I'm just pointing out that the views of just you four posters, regarding the above mentioned orthodox doctrines, are not unified at all , so I'm wondering 1) on what issues would you count yourselfs as "fellow apologists", 2) what do you mean by "defending the Faith, the Lord" and 3) if you can't find agreement on basic orthodox beliefs, as listed above, what beliefs held by exes against the F&Ws fellowship would you consider "heterodox" and how could you hold them against us?
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Post by Zorro on Jul 28, 2007 16:32:42 GMT -5
I just want to say one more thing regarding my previous two posts (I should have logged in so I could edit, oh well . My comments above are not intended to be a judgment of any of these individual's beliefs. I don't believe any of these issues define an individual's salvation. And I certainly don't believe that agreement on these issues defines the common ground necessary for fellowship. I DO believe that when we demand agreement on issues of doctrine and righteousness to be prerequisite for fellowship - ALL efforts will ultimately fail. The only true common ground we can find is that we are ALL sinners, redeemed by the blood of Christ. As Forrest Gump would say...."that's all I gotta say about that "
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 28, 2007 18:10:15 GMT -5
[Zorro Wrote] Honestly, I'm suprised by this comment, as well. If we choose just 3 posters, in addition to yourself, Nathan, Bert and Diet Coke.....how many issues do you believe you could stand united in defending?
Thanks for your comments in relation to this issue, Zorro. Having not read any of your comments recently, I believed that you might have left this forum; and that would have been a tremendous loss for all here.
You point out something uncomfortably true: the extent to which unity can be achieved in doctrine and belief. I believe, however, that some convictions are definitional of the Christian Faith, because they are so clearly taught in scripture. I maintain the principle that to fully confess scripture is to fully confess God.
You provided a short list of beliefs here:
Inerrancy of scripture? No. Election? No. Perserverance of the saints? No. Christ's deity? No. The Trinity? No.
I firmly believe and maintain all of these things, because of there being taught in the Bible. I view this as "orthodox" Christianity - "true Christianity - in teaching and perspective. I admit that your post stirred me up because I see orthodox belief waning in every place I set eyes.
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Post by Mr T Jr on Jul 28, 2007 18:19:28 GMT -5
Inerrancy of scripture? No. Election? No. Perserverance of the saints? No. Christ's deity? No. The Trinity? No. Sorry I'm new in these parts. Not familiar with the "issues" you've pointed out above? Can you elaborate or point to other resources?
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Post by ranman77007 on Jul 28, 2007 18:30:01 GMT -5
i have wondered if i was the only one of the friends here, but with all the hubbubb about professing, i'ma have to wait til i get to a meeting or two..lol.... trust me it'll happen though... i had a thread going on this subject of who here is professing in the fellowship of the friends and workers....
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Post by Zorro on Jul 28, 2007 20:34:19 GMT -5
You provided a short list of beliefs here:
Inerrancy of scripture? No. Election? No. Perserverance of the saints? No. Christ's deity? No. The Trinity? No.
I firmly believe and maintain all of these things, because of there being taught in the Bible. I view this as "orthodox" Christianity - "true Christianity - in teaching and perspective. I admit that your post stirred me up because I see orthodox belief waning in every place I set eyes. GiT, I chose those 5 specific doctrines to make a very specific point. I know that you defend all five points. Past history has clearly demonstrated that none of the other three posters would agree with all five. In fact, one would agree with none of them. So the question is...."what do we do with that?" My point is that it's a slippery slope when we define our ability to have fellowship with one another by agreement in doctrines. The fact is that of the five points listed, the person that would most closely align with your beliefs would be.....me - an ex. So again, what do we do with that? I'm not saying that we shouldn't have passion in what we believe, quite the contrary. But the bottom line is that regarding fellowship, we are foolish to believe that the breakthrough to true fellowship is when we can sit together and celebrate our piousness, our righteousness, our agreement on doctrine, our agreement on format of corporate worship - all the while hiding the reality of our sinfulness. The breakthrough to true fellowship is when we can sit together and celebrate our redemption (see Romans 14). That is the true common ground we all can share. I know that you believe that, and I think that most people do, for that matter. The problem is that in the midst of the ongoing posturing on the board, this most fundamental truth of God can get completely lost. I'm as guilty as the next guy, and honestly, it makes me weary. Good to chat with you
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Post by actually on Jul 28, 2007 23:35:51 GMT -5
[Someone Wrote] Tonight, the overseer in our state said "anyone who spends time looking at things on the internet about our fellowship is not a child of God because they are not feeding on the things of God". I have to agree with this unnamed overseer also. Everytime I read about the duplicitious lies, deceit, and coverups that take place within 2x2ism it does not help my relationship with God.
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Post by Zorro on Jul 29, 2007 0:13:07 GMT -5
Nathan, Actually, a line by line debate of each issue listed isn't the point. The point is that we already know that there is disagreement between these particular individuals named.....that's the reality. The point isn't who's right or wrong. The point isn't what doctrine is right or wrong. The point is - how can fellowship exist in the face of doctrinal disagreement? What is the common ground? Is it reduced to a common belief in a format or system of worship? Or is it defined by the shared experience of redemption from sin?
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Post by Zorro on Jul 29, 2007 0:28:44 GMT -5
Sorry I'm new in these parts.
Not familiar with the "issues" you've pointed out above?
Can you elaborate or point to other resources?
If you're honestly interested, I'd be happy to discuss anything you want, point you in the direction of some solid resources, etc.....but not on the board. Honestly, these things have been beaten to death around here and it'd probably be more constructive to chat via PM. So if you'd like, just register and PM me.
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Post by Zorro on Jul 29, 2007 0:33:10 GMT -5
Nathan, You didn't answer my questions.......What is the common ground? Is it reduced to a common belief in a format or system of worship? Or is it defined by the shared experience of redemption from sin?
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Post by Zorro on Jul 29, 2007 0:40:28 GMT -5
Let us discuss 5 things you posted openly just two topics at a time because others might like to read it again. I will tell you my belief and understanding and see what you think. If that is what you want.That's not really what I want I already know what you believe regarding them and have no real contention with you about them. The whole issue here is when GiT described you and others as "fellow apologists". My question is very simply what is the common ground that you all can stand united in defending?
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