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Post by verna on Jul 11, 2021 12:17:26 GMT -5
Mysteries, Yes Mary Oliver
Truly, we live with mysteries too marvelous to be understood.
How grass can be nourishing in the mouths of the lambs. How rivers and stones are forever in allegiance with gravity while we ourselves dream of rising. How two hands touch and the bonds will never be broken. How people come, from delight or the scars of damage, to the comfort of a poem.
Let me keep my distance, always, from those who think they have the answers.
Let me keep company always with those who say “Look!” and laugh in astonishment, and bow their heads.
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 1:46:18 GMT -5
I am feeling very discouraged about this forum. It seems to be all about pat lines, denigration and name calling. Yes perhaps we have irreconcilable differences but is there no way we can connect? I introduced this topic because it seems to me that there are so many things we do not know. Can we agree on that? Even if you believe in God there is still mystery. I think it is if value to learn to live with the mystery. We do not have all the answers. The Bible does not have all the answers. Science does not have all the answers. That is OK!!! Personally my soul values mystery over answers. But then I also love poetry. How do you live with not knowing? How do you live with the mystery?
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 1:54:54 GMT -5
Hey I’ll go first. I find that probably gratitude is the most important thing.
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Post by Grant on Jul 14, 2021 2:10:13 GMT -5
Start a gratitude journal. At the end of the day write 3 things you are thankful for. Different things everyday.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 14, 2021 2:19:40 GMT -5
Start a gratitude journal. At the end of the day write 3 things you are thankful for. Different things everyday. It’s not easy to be ungrateful when you’re busy being thankful. I call it Thanksliving
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 14, 2021 3:07:40 GMT -5
It's easy to be thankful. Get up in the morning and find that the sun rose in the east. Again. Must mean the planet is rotating as usual.
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Post by Annan on Jul 14, 2021 6:01:59 GMT -5
It would be nice to be able to share ideas and thoughts and learn from and encourage each other. Then those who declare that if we don't believe as they believe come along and it gets ugly.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 14, 2021 9:06:44 GMT -5
I am feeling very discouraged about this forum. It seems to be all about pat lines, denigration and name calling. Yes perhaps we have irreconcilable differences but is there no way we can connect? Iintroduced this topic because it seems to me that there are so many things we do not know. Can we agree on that? Even if you believe in God there is still mystery. I think it is if value to learn to live with the mystery. We do not have all the answers. The Bible does not have all the answers. Science does not have all the answers. That is OK!!! Personally my soul values mystery over answers. But then I also love poetry. How do you live with not knowing? How do you live with the mystery? Thanks verna,
I remember when it actually first occurred to me that I would NEVER have all of the answers to my questions.
You would think that anybody would already know that, -but somehow I had thought that before I died I would know the answers to the many questions I had about the universe! Really rather arrogant of me when I thought about it.
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 12:21:26 GMT -5
I am feeling very discouraged about this forum. It seems to be all about pat lines, denigration and name calling. Yes perhaps we have irreconcilable differences but is there no way we can connect? Iintroduced this topic because it seems to me that there are so many things we do not know. Can we agree on that? Even if you believe in God there is still mystery. I think it is if value to learn to live with the mystery. We do not have all the answers. The Bible does not have all the answers. Science does not have all the answers. That is OK!!! Personally my soul values mystery over answers. But then I also love poetry. How do you live with not knowing? How do you live with the mystery? Thanks verna,
I remember when it actually first occurred to me that I would NEVER have all of the answers to my questions.
You would think that anybody would already know that, -but somehow I had thought that before I died I would know the answers to the many questions I had about the universe! Really rather arrogant of me when I thought about it.Thanks Dmm. You understand. I find that there is peace and revelation in letting go. But then with the revelation there comes the sense of being able to know/understand again. And again I need to let go of that need to know because I cannot - not fully. I believe it is good and ingrained - this desire to know and it is good and essential to find meaning in life. But it is also a trap that robs us of the joy of not knowing - the rapture of the mystery.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 16:56:04 GMT -5
Enjoying life is just being yourself and enjoy every bit of your life. You might even face problems, but understand that at the end of the day; everything will fall into place. So just enjoy whatever you are doing. Do all things with great joy and happiness.
Why say there is only one way, this is what we have to do. Life is not cut and dried, we have to sort it out as we go along, one day at a time. Part of the enjoyment is treating life as an exciting adventure, that is what makes it so enjoyable. Don't get stuck in a rut, where you fail to explore and learn and share with everybody. Nobody has all the answers, they only think they do.
IMO the mystery just adds an exciting aspect of life. Don't try to solve it, there is no single answer, just enjoy the ride.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 18:47:18 GMT -5
I am feeling very discouraged about this forum. It seems to be all about pat lines, denigration and name calling. Yes perhaps we have irreconcilable differences but is there no way we can connect? I introduced this topic because it seems to me that there are so many things we do not know. Can we agree on that? Even if you believe in God there is still mystery. I think it is if value to learn to live with the mystery. We do not have all the answers. The Bible does not have all the answers. Science does not have all the answers. That is OK!!! Personally my soul values mystery over answers. But then I also love poetry. How do you live with not knowing? How do you live with the mystery? actually the bible does have answers to almost all of life's problems what is lacking is our understanding all of it. that is probably not gonna happen until we reach heaven. solomon once said "there is nothing new under the sun"... actually the forum is suppose to be about mainly discussing the 2x2's anything else is OT.
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 19:06:34 GMT -5
I am feeling very discouraged about this forum. It seems to be all about pat lines, denigration and name calling. Yes perhaps we have irreconcilable differences but is there no way we can connect? I introduced this topic because it seems to me that there are so many things we do not know. Can we agree on that? Even if you believe in God there is still mystery. I think it is if value to learn to live with the mystery. We do not have all the answers. The Bible does not have all the answers. Science does not have all the answers. That is OK!!! Personally my soul values mystery over answers. But then I also love poetry. How do you live with not knowing? How do you live with the mystery? actually the bible does have answers to almost all of life's problems what is lacking is our understanding all of it. that is probably not gonna happen until we reach heaven. solomon once said "there is nothing new under the sun"... actually the forum is suppose to be about mainly discussing the 2x2's anything else is OT. Ok Wally - let’s say that it is true that the Bible has all the answers if only we could understand them. You are validating what I said -that there are things we do not know. Things we do not understand. Right? Re: your second point - I thought OT meant Old Testament so I don’t know what you mean. Not so good at abbreviations. I thought this board was for 2x2ers and x’s. I think redback checked this out recenty in a thread. Like redback said- if memory serves - I will leave if I am not welcome here. However it seems like you have trouble with positive posts. I am not here to bash anyone’s belief system. I am trying to heal and to learn better to understand and maintain meaningful relationships with individuals I love who are faithful 2x2s. I also believe it is good to hang out with people who see things differently from me though it is difficult. It is good for all of us to question our beliefs and motives. Like it is often said, when it comes right down to it our commonalities outnumber our differences.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 19:49:46 GMT -5
Verna thank you so much for your well considered thoughtful posts, you have been a breath of fresh air on TMB. It is sad that a few think that TMB should be an online Gospel Meeting. They need to understand there is a time and place for that and it is not TMB. We have established that TMB is an open forum, open to everyone irrespective of their belief status. Everybody should understand and respect that, name calling and verbal abuse not allowed.
In these tough times with Covid, global warming, active radical groups, etc, we need to help and support each other, not tear anybody apart. We should be free to express our own individual thoughts without fear.
“It’s important that what thoughts you are feeding into your mind because your thoughts create your belief and experiences. You have positive thoughts and you have negative ones too. Nurture your mind with positive thoughts: kindness, empathy, compassion, peace, love, joy, humility, generosity, etc. The more you feed your mind with positive thoughts, the more you can attract great things into your life.” Roy T. Bennett
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 20:12:15 GMT -5
Verna thank you so much for your well considered thoughtful posts, you have been a breath of fresh air on TMB. It is sad that a few think that TMB should be an online Gospel Meeting. They need to understand there is a time and place for that and it is not TMB. We have established that TMB is an open forum, open to everyone irrespective of their belief status. Everybody should understand and respect that, name calling and verbal abuse not allowed. In these tough times with Covid, global warming, active radical groups, etc, we need to help and support each other, not tear anybody apart. We should be free to express our own individual thoughts without fear. “It’s important that what thoughts you are feeding into your mind because your thoughts create your belief and experiences. You have positive thoughts and you have negative ones too. Nurture your mind with positive thoughts: kindness, empathy, compassion, peace, love, joy, humility, generosity, etc. The more you feed your mind with positive thoughts, the more you can attract great things into your life.” Roy T. Bennett Thanks so much Redback for the support and encouragement. I appreciate your posts as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 20:18:30 GMT -5
actually the bible does have answers to almost all of life's problems what is lacking is our understanding all of it. that is probably not gonna happen until we reach heaven. solomon once said "there is nothing new under the sun"... actually the forum is suppose to be about mainly discussing the 2x2's anything else is OT. Ok Wally - let’s say that it is true that the Bible has all the answers if only we could understand them. You are validating what I said -that there are things we do not know. Things we do not understand. Right? Re: your second point - I thought OT meant Old Testament so I don’t know what you mean. Not so good at abbreviations. I thought this board was for 2x2ers and x’s. I think redback checked this out recenty in a thread. Like redback said- if memory serves - I will leave if I am not welcome here. However it seems like you have trouble with positive posts. I am not here to bash anyone’s belief system. I am trying to heal and to learn better to understand and maintain meaningful relationships with individuals I love who are faithful 2x2s. I also believe it is good to hang out with people who see things differently from me though it is difficult. It is good for all of us to question our beliefs and motives. Like it is often said, when it comes right down to it our commonalities outnumber our differences. yes i slightly endorsed your "we don't know everything"... OT can also mean Off topic.. most posts here are negative in nature, posts will generally result with negative or positive feedback that is just how forums work... what could be more positive than encouraging heaven and warning against hell?
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Post by verna on Jul 14, 2021 21:06:03 GMT -5
Ok Wally - let’s say that it is true that the Bible has all the answers if only we could understand them. You are validating what I said -that there are things we do not know. Things we do not understand. Right? Re: your second point - I thought OT meant Old Testament so I don’t know what you mean. Not so good at abbreviations. I thought this board was for 2x2ers and x’s. I think redback checked this out recenty in a thread. Like redback said- if memory serves - I will leave if I am not welcome here. However it seems like you have trouble with positive posts. I am not here to bash anyone’s belief system. I am trying to heal and to learn better to understand and maintain meaningful relationships with individuals I love who are faithful 2x2s. I also believe it is good to hang out with people who see things differently from me though it is difficult. It is good for all of us to question our beliefs and motives. Like it is often said, when it comes right down to it our commonalities outnumber our differences. yes i slightly endorsed your "we don't know everything"... OT can also mean Off topic.. most posts here are negative in nature, posts will generally result with negative or positive feedback that is just how forums work... what could be more positive than encouraging heaven and warning against hell? Thanks for the concession. Perhaps others can help me with ideas about what could be more positive than encouraging heaven and warning about hell. I don’t have a worthy response at the moment but I can tell you (perhaps you don’t realize it) that it does not come across as positive. Perhaps this is something that could be discussed. How could you present what i guess you consider your “good news message” in a way that is more appealing to people. For me life is not easy. Waiting around for heaven is a long haul. Some of us need help with “the living”.
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Post by joanna on Jul 16, 2021 20:08:29 GMT -5
vernaThank you for sharing that interesting poem. It would be a different world if our species was more willing to admit that we don't have all the answers. However I think those of us living in the 21st century have benefited from the fact that science has provided many answers to past mysteries. The quest to find solutions for issues that undermine the quality of life for both human and non-human animals is an important one.
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Post by verna on Jul 16, 2021 20:25:49 GMT -5
vernaThank you for sharing that interesting poem. It would be a different world if our species was more willing to admit that we don't have all the answers. However I think those of us living in the 21st century have benefited from the fact that science has provided many answers to past mysteries. The quest to find solutions for issues that undermine the quality of life for both human and non-human animals is an important one. Oh I absolutely agree Joanna. Certainly looking for answers is important - but I think looking at our world with wonder and gratitude as Mary oliver suggests provokes curiosity which leads to investigation and understanding. (Latching onto “answers” to avoid the discomfort of not knowing does not do that). Nonetheless we will always be in a state of not knowing many things and I find peace is recognizing this. Your point is very well taken. I find often that when something is true - in some respect the opposite is true as well - well maybe not with science - but with the expression of ideas. That’s really weird.
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