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Post by nathan on May 17, 2021 1:20:31 GMT -5
more than 1 being/person... www.logosapostolic.org/tracts/SonofGod.htmi only verified matthews verses but they all turned out to be right so i am not too worried about the rest...should keep one busy for and hour or so... So he told them & they repeated it. I'm Santa Claus, go figure. God the Father spoke and confirmed from heaven Jesus is the Son of God or His Son. In Hebrews 1 God the Father called the Son "God and LORD/Yahweh." You can't get better endorsement than that!
Jesus said He is the Almighty God in Rev. 1 and the apostle Thomas addressed Jesus as , "My Lord and My God." and Jesus did NOT correct Thomas, but accepted the titles as his God and his LORD/Yahweh.
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Post by Dan on May 17, 2021 2:20:25 GMT -5
So he told them & they repeated it. I'm Santa Claus, go figure. God the Father spoke and confirmed from heaven Jesus is the Son of God or His Son. In Hebrews 1 God the Father called the Son "God and LORD/Yahweh." You can't get better endorsement than that!
Jesus said He is the Almighty God in Rev. 1 and the apostle Thomas addressed Jesus as , "My Lord and My God." and Jesus did NOT correct Thomas, but accepted the titles as his God and his LORD/Yahweh.
True... “I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.” (John 8:18)... When God verifies it, there's no need for any other endorsements.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 17, 2021 3:26:04 GMT -5
Intelchips be careful with that one. It raises the question, "Is Souls clean" or "Are Souls clean". If you ever visit, and you would be very welcome you leave your souls at the door.
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Post by chuck on May 17, 2021 4:14:28 GMT -5
Your first paragraph is a clue in itself as to the journey of Jesus becoming a Rabbi. Jesus went through the process, probably most or all of his disciples did also up to a certain point. Maybe you should look into it instead of making ignorant remarks. Jesus didn't go through the process, he didn't train in any rabbi school. And the Jews marvelled at this understanding because he hadn't trained as a rabbi. Jesus was taught by God. John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, HAVING NEVER LEARNED? 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. neither did the disciples, they were taught by Jesus and God Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. Many things indicate it's highly likely he did. Yoke One accord Wowing at the age of 12 with questions Dust of the feet Follow in his footsteps Rabbi Teacher Master Follow me Pharisees inviting Jesus to dinner Teachers with authority 12-30, Beit Talmud, Beit Midrash All rabbinical language, im sure there is plenty I missed. And Christianity never broke from the synagogue until something like the 8th or 9th decade so Im unsure why people try so hard to deny the Jewish roots of Christianity. We can even seen it in the gospels itself actually. Maybe Because he didn't come from the 2 or 3 known rabbis they thought he was unlearned?. I haven’t looked into it. That is why they called Peter and John unlearned, because they didn't fit the mould so to speak. I wonder were we've seen that before......
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Post by maryhig on May 17, 2021 5:34:49 GMT -5
Jesus didn't go through the process, he didn't train in any rabbi school. And the Jews marvelled at this understanding because he hadn't trained as a rabbi. Jesus was taught by God. John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, HAVING NEVER LEARNED? 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. neither did the disciples, they were taught by Jesus and God Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. Many things indicate it's highly likely he did. Yoke One accord Wowing at the age of 12 with questions Dust of the feet Follow in his footsteps Rabbi Teacher Master Follow me Pharisees inviting Jesus to dinner Teachers with authority 12-30, Beit Talmud, Beit Midrash All rabbinical language, im sure there is plenty I missed. And Christianity never broke from the synagogue until something like the 8th or 9th decade so Im unsure why people try so hard to deny the Jewish roots of Christianity. We can even seen it in the gospels itself actually. Maybe Because he didn't come from the 2 or 3 known rabbis they thought he was unlearned?. I haven’t looked into it. That is why they called Peter and John unlearned, because they didn't fit the mould so to speak. I wonder were we've seen that before...... Jesus didn't need to be taught by rabbis, he was strong in the Spirit from a young age, this verse is in Luke 2, just before Jesus went to Jerusalem at the age of 12. He was already filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him at that age, so his wisdom and strength came from God by the power of the Spirit, not from man. Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
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Post by intelchips on May 17, 2021 7:55:48 GMT -5
I'm rather slow at understanding things so help me out here please. The word spirit is from the Latin spiritus meaning "breath." Thus we have "exalted breath" hum I'm no better off then when I started out. Come on some of you deep thinkers help me out please. The Holy Spirit, i.e. God's Spirit, is often interpreted as, or referred to as the Holy Ghost. I regard the Holy Spirit as the active, supernatural force which proceeds from God the Father. Call it Ghost or Spirit, it is a living force representing God the Father in all things. It is in fact God, just as your spirit, that active force within you is You. God is identified by three components. 1) His supreme being. 2) His Word, which is both living and spirit to those who believe it. 3) The Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit of the Father. We believe in God by believing and obeying his word, which in turn activates God's Holy Spirit in us to give us that spirit and life that comes through obedience. (Virgs) My point was those are nouns of non-real things. Made up by using words that had different meanings within the culture which they were used.
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Post by mountain on May 17, 2021 8:26:02 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit, i.e. God's Spirit, is often interpreted as, or referred to as the Holy Ghost. I regard the Holy Spirit as the active, supernatural force which proceeds from God the Father. Call it Ghost or Spirit, it is a living force representing God the Father in all things. It is in fact God, just as your spirit, that active force within you is You. God is identified by three components. 1) His supreme being. 2) His Word, which is both living and spirit to those who believe it. 3) The Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit of the Father. We believe in God by believing and obeying his word, which in turn activates God's Holy Spirit in us to give us that spirit and life that comes through obedience. (Virgs) My point was those are nouns of non-real things. Made up by using words that had different meanings within the culture which they were used. I'm not sure that I follow your drift Ints. Non-real things? Holy Ghost, Gog, Father, Spirit, etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 13:21:30 GMT -5
Jesus didn't go through the process, he didn't train in any rabbi school. And the Jews marvelled at this understanding because he hadn't trained as a rabbi. Jesus was taught by God. John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, HAVING NEVER LEARNED? 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. neither did the disciples, they were taught by Jesus and God Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. Many things indicate it's highly likely he did. Yoke One accord Wowing at the age of 12 with questions Dust of the feet Follow in his footsteps Rabbi Teacher Master Follow me Pharisees inviting Jesus to dinner Teachers with authority 12-30, Beit Talmud, Beit Midrash All rabbinical language, im sure there is plenty I missed. And Christianity never broke from the synagogue until something like the 8th or 9th decade so Im unsure why people try so hard to deny the Jewish roots of Christianity. We can even seen it in the gospels itself actually. Maybe Because he didn't come from the 2 or 3 known rabbis they thought he was unlearned?. I haven’t looked into it. That is why they called Peter and John unlearned, because they didn't fit the mould so to speak. I wonder were we've seen that before...... wrong, we use all those words too are we all rabbis and have gone through the training? wrong Christians were first noted in about 60ish AD
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Post by mrdobalina on May 17, 2021 15:01:22 GMT -5
Curious to know why there is such a vehement opposition to giving workers any training whatsoever. The idea seems completely outdated, and unfair to all parties. Sure, God can guide them, but there's absolutely no doubt that people with a little training perform their jobs so much better than those with none, regardless. I appreciate that this is an inconvenient question, but could someone in a position of authority actually give me an answer that dosent go along the lines of "God is the best teacher"
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Post by dmmichgood on May 17, 2021 15:36:26 GMT -5
Excuse me, but for those of you who keep using one part to the bible in an attempt to prove another part of the bible, -don't you think that might not be the best way to arrive at what is really true?
For instance if we took any book and tried to prove one part of it by citing another part of the same book, -could we really count on what we found to be the truth?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 16:19:36 GMT -5
Curious to know why there is such a vehement opposition to giving workers any training whatsoever. The idea seems completely outdated, and unfair to all parties. Sure, God can guide them, but there's absolutely no doubt that people with a little training perform their jobs so much better than those with none, regardless. I appreciate that this is an inconvenient question, but could someone in a position of authority actually give me an answer that dosent go along the lines of "God is the best teacher" there is no one here "with authority" anymore and any workers that might be lurking won't say a peep... non authority opinion here: it comes down to following God or following mankind for things about behavior/actions. the bible implies following God in all things like that not mankind.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 16:23:28 GMT -5
Excuse me, but for those of you who keep using one part to the bible in an attempt to prove another part of the bible, -don't you think that might not be the best way to arrive at what is really true?
For instance if we took any book and tried to prove one part of it by citing another part of the same book, -could we really count on what we found to be the truth?
ever go through a math book. later parts are always referencing previous parts. and previous parts are used to establish later parts. for the truth of a matter in math...
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Post by speak on May 17, 2021 16:45:49 GMT -5
Intelchips be careful with that one. It raises the question, "Is Souls clean" or "Are Souls clean". If you ever visit, and you would be very welcome you leave your souls at the door. Especially if one has been in the cow paddock.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 17, 2021 16:46:22 GMT -5
Curious to know why there is such a vehement opposition to giving workers any training whatsoever. The idea seems completely outdated, and unfair to all parties. Sure, God can guide them, but there's absolutely no doubt that people with a little training perform their jobs so much better than those with none, regardless. I appreciate that this is an inconvenient question, but could someone in a position of authority actually give me an answer that dosent go along the lines of "God is the best teacher" there is no one here "with authority" anymore and any workers that might be lurking won't say a peep... non authority opinion here: it comes down to following God or following mankind for things about behavior/actions. the bible implies following God in all things like that not mankind. I set the "authority" bit deliberately, and you demonstrated what I expected. There is no authority or leadership it somehow just slides along with everybody doing God's will & leaving it all to God. Its a credit to you guys that the whole thing hasn't imploded yet, but the history of cults suggests it won't take more than a couple more generations for that to happen.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 17, 2021 16:51:25 GMT -5
Excuse me, but for those of you who keep using one part to the bible in an attempt to prove another part of the bible, -don't you think that might not be the best way to arrive at what is really true?
For instance if we took any book and tried to prove one part of it by citing another part of the same book, -could we really count on what we found to be the truth?
ever go through a math book. later parts are always referencing previous parts. and previous parts are used to establish later parts. for the truth of a matter in math... So the bible is just a math book?
Darn, I always hated math!
It is just a gobbledygook to me.
Can't remember more than three numbers in a row without goofing them up.
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Post by mrdobalina on May 17, 2021 17:03:33 GMT -5
ever go through a math book. later parts are always referencing previous parts. and previous parts are used to establish later parts. for the truth of a matter in math... So the bible is just a math book?
Darn, I always hated math!
It is just a gobbledygook to me.
Can't remember more than three numbers in a row without goofing them up.To ge fair, it was a fairly crap comparison. Maths can be re proven, whereas if you destroyed any evidence of bibles, they would make up an entirely different gobbledygook.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 17, 2021 17:23:21 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit, i.e. God's Spirit, is often interpreted as, or referred to as the Holy Ghost. I regard the Holy Spirit as the active, supernatural force which proceeds from God the Father. Call it Ghost or Spirit, it is a living force representing God the Father in all things. It is in fact God, just as your spirit, that active force within you is You. God is identified by three components. 1) His supreme being. 2) His Word, which is both living and spirit to those who believe it. 3) The Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit of the Father. We believe in God by believing and obeying his word, which in turn activates God's Holy Spirit in us to give us that spirit and life that comes through obedience. (Virgs) My point was those are nouns of non-real things. Made up by using words that had different meanings within the culture which they were used. Abstract kinds of things.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 17, 2021 17:25:56 GMT -5
Excuse me, but for those of you who keep using one part to the bible in an attempt to prove another part of the bible, -don't you think that might not be the best way to arrive at what is really true?
For instance if we took any book and tried to prove one part of it by citing another part of the same book, -could we really count on what we found to be the truth?
ever go through a math book. later parts are always referencing previous parts. and previous parts are used to establish later parts. for the truth of a matter in math... Even when 2 + 2 = 5 ?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 17:32:51 GMT -5
ever go through a math book. later parts are always referencing previous parts. and previous parts are used to establish later parts. for the truth of a matter in math... Even when 2 + 2 = 5 ? my mistake should have clarified real math instead of common core math...
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Post by Dan on May 17, 2021 17:48:21 GMT -5
Curious to know why there is such a vehement opposition to giving workers any training whatsoever. The idea seems completely outdated, and unfair to all parties. Sure, God can guide them, but there's absolutely no doubt that people with a little training perform their jobs so much better than those with none, regardless. I appreciate that this is an inconvenient question, but could someone in a position of authority actually give me an answer that dosent go along the lines of "God is the best teacher"
There's no school (seminary) or training facilities, that would cost a ton of money. A new Worker is generally placed with an older experienced Worker, so consider it on-the-job training.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 18:34:55 GMT -5
Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the World. - Nelson Mandela.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 19:16:50 GMT -5
Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the World. - Nelson Mandela. interesting enough mandela and his party were still classified as terrorists until 2008 when Bush II signed a bill removing him and them from the list.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 19:22:07 GMT -5
the pen is mightier than the sword -bulwer-lytton 1839 no more sword to be feared than the pen -proverb 1571 the pen is worse than the sword -burton 1621 by the stroke of a pen more death, injury and suffering have happened than by any sword -wally sometime in the early 2000's
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Post by dmmichgood on May 17, 2021 19:25:42 GMT -5
You don't need any degree to do God's work, what you do need is the right heart, and to be ready to do his will. You don't get knowledge and understanding of God from a college, you can read and study all you want, but without the right heart it's nothing! You seem like a lovely person and I'm sure your heart is in the right place. Having "The right heart" or passion is certainly a prerequisite to becoming involved in anything that requires major commitment. And providing they don't offer marriage counseling or business advice etc then I'm right on board with you, but history teaches us that they tend to get involved with topics far outside their field of expertise, with disastrous results. Surely some training would make the task so much less stressful for the workers on the whole, and make them more useful in their roles. There is nothing more stressful than being set a task you have absolutely no training or experience in, and that may help to explain the incidence of worker burnout at an early stage that happens so frequently. The poor sods a completely unequipped for what they are facing. Having God in your heart or pocket is no substitute. Simply telling people to "pray about it" is a responsibility shift & no great help in the real world. Actually what I found to my sorrow is that simply due to the hierarchy of the system, the younger workers simply go along with the advice of their superior in anything that they may tell the lay person.
What ever they say it has to coincide with the older worker. That advice can be empathetic or vindictive or anything in between according to the personality of the senior worker.
Most younger workers simply can't buck the system or they suffer the consequences themselves. It may have change somewhat now but I doubt it is enough to of be use to the person who needs professional help.
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Post by joanna on May 17, 2021 19:25:47 GMT -5
I had not been on this forum for some time but had recently wondered about whether young people were still offering for the work. Coincidentally this thread was on here. It makes me sad to think of people dedicating themselves to a work that is based on false claims. This includes all ministries and proselytising that promote faith beliefs. When someone is immersed in a faith system, they seem unable to honestly critique whether that system is based on fact or fiction. Relatives of workers have a sense of pride at being connected to someone who preaches the 'gospel'. "Gospel" is such a misleading term. And I have observed the same attitude in those with relatives who are Anglican ministers or RC priests etc The power of a religious indoctrination process is seriously concerning given this process is so effective at undermining the ability to apply critical analysis and self-reflect. However the Clergy Project proves there are individuals who have started questioning whether their 'calling' is rational and who reach a point where they either out themselves as non-believers, or sadly, are closet atheists who feel they cannot disappoint their loved ones by declaring they have lost their faith. To any young (or older) person who is considering offering for the work, or other ministry, I would encourage them to prove that the words they will be preaching are factual and evidenced. If they cannot prove this using verifiable methods, then to ask themselves "Do they want to be part of spreading untruth?" I had a close and loved relative who was a senior worker. They would have been wonderful in a profession that supported the vulnerable as a Social Worker or another healthcare role. Instead they spent over 60 years preaching from a flawed book of mythology. Are you a religious professional who no longer believes in the supernatural?
Have you remained in vocational ministry, secretly hiding away your non-belief?
Are you struggling over where to go from here with your life and career?
The Clergy Project
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 19:39:27 GMT -5
I had not been on this forum for some time but had recently wondered about whether young people were still offering for the work. Coincidentally this thread was on here. It makes me sad to think of people dedicating themselves to a work that is based on false claims. This includes all ministries and proselytising that promote faith beliefs. When someone is immersed in a faith system, they seem unable to honestly critique whether that system is based on fact or fiction. Relatives of workers have a sense of pride at being connected to someone who preaches the 'gospel'. "Gospel" is such a misleading term. And I have observed the same attitude in those with relatives who are Anglican ministers or RC priests etc The power of a religious indoctrination process is seriously concerning given this process is so effective at undermining the ability to apply critical analysis and self-reflect. However the Clergy Project proves there are individuals who have started questioning whether their 'calling' is rational and who reach a point where they either out themselves as non-believers, or sadly, are closet atheists who feel they cannot disappoint their loved ones by declaring they have lost their faith. To any young (or older) person who is considering offering for the work, or other ministry, I would encourage them to prove that the words they will be preaching are factual and evidenced. If they cannot prove this using verifiable methods, then to ask themselves "Do they want to be part of spreading untruth?" I had a close and loved relative who was a senior worker. They would have been wonderful in a profession that supported the vulnerable as a Social Worker or another healthcare role. Instead they spent over 60 years preaching from a flawed book of mythology. Are you a religious professional who no longer believes in the supernatural?
Have you remained in vocational ministry, secretly hiding away your non-belief?
Are you struggling over where to go from here with your life and career?
The Clergy Project this doesn't exactly fit but came to mind when i read the above post: Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 20:31:22 GMT -5
Like Joanna it makes me sad that 43 people are entering into an abnormal lifestyle, needlessly. It could be so different for them if commonsense prevailed. They will have health issues, breakdowns, etc, caused by living in an unnatural way. There biggest problem will be enforced celibacy, due to some unreasonable man made rule. Times have changed, rules need to be changed.
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Post by chuck on May 17, 2021 20:42:21 GMT -5
Curious to know why there is such a vehement opposition to giving workers any training whatsoever. The idea seems completely outdated, and unfair to all parties. Sure, God can guide them, but there's absolutely no doubt that people with a little training perform their jobs so much better than those with none, regardless. I appreciate that this is an inconvenient question, but could someone in a position of authority actually give me an answer that dosent go along the lines of "God is the best teacher" If any sort of training happened outside the control of the cult it would instantly derail it in a matter of a year or 2. Hence the importance placed on convention, 4 days of undivided attention, and 3-4 times a week in gospel and home meetings whilst dissuading looking at any other sources outside of the cult structure and the KJV and the emphasis on the teaching abilities of the holy spirit( which they have totally butchered). Someone once said to me "Get em young and keep em dumb", now to be fair I don't think this is a conscious effort in the main but its still bang on. How ever their are a few true blue Charlatans, one bloke in particular that some people here know quite well is a prime example, you just gotta look at his online photo collection, why would he want to change what he does, flies all over the world on someone elses dime, always the best food ect ect all produced by keeping others feeling guilty and unworthy.
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