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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 18:44:20 GMT -5
It reminds me of... Luke 6:26 What sorrow awaits you who are praised by the crowds, for their ancestors also praised false prophets. My Friend fixit, Does it really matter what Nathan does? After all we all know: The word God is a factual human creation as two Canaanite God concepts were compiled by Israelites and later redefined by Roman citizens who added a son of God concept to compete against the Emperor who was first the son of god. All coming from primitive people who didn't know a volcano was not an angry deity the same primitive people that thought rain was a happy deity. Cheers and thunder was a lactose intolerant deity after a tub of Ben and Jerry's.
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Post by fixit on Feb 15, 2021 19:58:56 GMT -5
It reminds me of... Luke 6:26 What sorrow awaits you who are praised by the crowds, for their ancestors also praised false prophets. My Friend fixit, Does it really matter what Nathan does? It's annoying that he so drastically reduces the intelligence level of the average TMB post.
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Post by speak on Feb 15, 2021 21:53:42 GMT -5
My Friend fixit, Does it really matter what Nathan does? It's annoying that he so drastically reduces the intelligence level of the average TMB post. That is so but it easy to ignore and not respond, it's not worth the effort.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 15, 2021 22:09:38 GMT -5
My Friend fixit, Does it really matter what Nathan does? It's annoying that he so drastically reduces the intelligence level of the average TMB post. But look on the bright side. The average IQ of the Vietnamese people went up when he left.
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Post by nathan on Feb 15, 2021 23:24:05 GMT -5
What do you say about the Holy Spirit sent the apostles outside of Israel Paul and Barnabas in Acts 13: 1-2 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Acts 15:35-40 Barnabas took John Mark; Paul took Silas.
I Cor. 1:1 Paul and Sosthenes II Cor. 1:1 Paul and Timothy
In Acts the apostles went 2 and 2; threesomes, and sometimes travel in small groups. For nearly 2000 years the apostles of men and women, The Vaudois, Albigenses, Poor men of Lyon/France, the Faith Mission, 2x2s went two and two, 3, and travel in small groups to special meetings, and conventions.
So, how can you say it unscriptual? and going in pairs outside of Israel, there has always been men and women had done for 2000 year in many nations around the world.
I should have worded it better. The only command to go in pairs was in luke 10, That's it. Matthew 10 was only to Israel. I am not denying they went in pairs after luke 10. But they went alone also, and in different size groups. 1 year or 2000 years, does not mean celibate homeless 2x2 is the only way. It means if you think it's the only way you have grabbed a small portion of scripture out of context and applied it inappropriately. Luke 22. Ephesians 4:11 1 Corinthians 9:5,6 John 19:27 *** Your understanding of Scriptures are NOT 100% correct about going in pairs only in Israel that is false. God had promised the Jews He would give Israel the first chance or opportunity in hearing the gospel of Jesus so, He sent two groups the 12 and 70 apostles and instructed them NOT to go to the Gentiles at this time. In Matthew 28 the Great Commission Jesus Commanded the apostles to go to the Gentiles nations and to all the world until He comes again. In the book of Acts we read the apostles continue going in pairs, sometimes in 3 or in small groups through the centuries, even to our days.
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Post by nathan on Feb 15, 2021 23:25:09 GMT -5
Sending forth the Vaudois/apostles preachers into the world. Two callings: Apostles and Disciples.
Some among the brethren devoted themselves entirely to traveling and ministering the Word and were called "the Perfect" and in accordance with the Lord's word in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou will be Perfect, go and SELL that thou has, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasures in heaven, and come and follow me." The apostles or the Perfect "Possess nothing," they had NO homes, and Literally Acted upon this command. It was recognize that ALL believers are NOT call to such a path, and that the MAJORITY of believers, while acknowledge that they and ALL belong to Christ, should serve Him while "Remaining" in their families and continuing their usual occupations. Those whom they called "Apostles" played an important part in their testimony. While the elders of the churches and believers "Remained" in their homes, the "Apostles" traveled continually, visiting the churches. A distinction was made between those called to be Apostles or Perfect, and others followers of Christ, based on the fact that in the Gospel some were called to SELL ALL that they had and follow Christ, while others of His disciples were equally called to serve Him in the surroundings in which He found them. The Vaudois/Waldensian Apostles had NO property or goods or home or family; if they HAD these they left them. Their life was one of self-denial, hardship and danger. They traveled in utmost simplicity, without money, without second suit, their needs being supplied by the "Believers" among whom they ministered the Word. They Always go Two and Two, an elder and a younger man, of whom the latter waited on his older companion. No need for seminary school since the Holy Spirit is the only Teacher they need. Their visits were highly esteemed, and they were treated with every token of respect and affection. They NEVER ask for anything; indeed, many undertook serious medical studies that they might be able to care for the bodies of those they met with. The Name "Friends of God" was often given to them. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor.They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Older man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ.The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles . Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare.
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Post by Roselyn T on Feb 15, 2021 23:51:54 GMT -5
Sending forth the Vaudois/apostles preachers into the world. Two callings: Apostles and Disciples.
Some among the brethren devoted themselves entirely to traveling and ministering the Word and were called "the Perfect" and in accordance with the Lord's word in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou will be Perfect, go and SELL that thou has, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasures in heaven, and come and follow me." The apostles or the Perfect "Possess nothing," they had NO homes, and Literally Acted upon this command. It was recognize that ALL believers are NOT call to such a path, and that the MAJORITY of believers, while acknowledge that they and ALL belong to Christ, should serve Him while "Remaining" in their families and continuing their usual occupations. Those whom they called "Apostles" played an important part in their testimony. While the elders of the churches and believers "Remained" in their homes, the "Apostles" traveled continually, visiting the churches. A distinction was made between those called to be Apostles or Perfect, and others followers of Christ, based on the fact that in the Gospel some were called to SELL ALL that they had and follow Christ, while others of His disciples were equally called to serve Him in the surroundings in which He found them. The Vaudois/Waldensian Apostles had NO property or goods or home or family; if they HAD these they left them. Their life was one of self-denial, hardship and danger. They traveled in utmost simplicity, without money, without second suit, their needs being supplied by the "Believers" among whom they ministered the Word. They Always go Two and Two, an elder and a younger man, of whom the latter waited on his older companion. No need for seminary school since the Holy Spirit is the only Teacher they need. Their visits were highly esteemed, and they were treated with every token of respect and affection. They NEVER ask for anything; indeed, many undertook serious medical studies that they might be able to care for the bodies of those they met with. The Name "Friends of God" was often given to them. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor.They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Older man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ.The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles . Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare. But...they are NOT the 2x2s nathan !!! No matter how hard you try and link them ! This is an example of how you try to change things to suit your own beliefs, but you still have not worked out that just because YOU THINK IT,does make it a fact !
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 0:31:28 GMT -5
But...they are NOT the 2x2s nathan !!! No matter how hard you try and link them ! This is an example of how you try to change things to suit your own beliefs, but you still have not worked out that just because YOU THINK IT,does make it a fact ! *** You don't KNOW that! I will show you the documents of The 2x2 workers and the Vaudois apostles have similar 2x2 CELIBACY workers apostolic ministry! The Sunday morning worship in the homes of believers. The early days workers believed Jesus is God and the Trinity! Unfortunately, most of the current workers and friends had been taught incorrectly by many senior workers and overseers, who didn't understand the Godhead since 1950-2021 Jesus is NOT God; the Trinity is the devils doctrine and heresy. The workers believing in Two callings as the Vaudois the apostles/Workers calling and the friends/Church elders. The early days Waldenses did NOT believing in building churches to worship! they met in the homes of believers for a place of worship but they preach the gospel in many places... Just like the 2x2 workers! They have many similar belief and similar spirits of the early days workers. I believe BOTH groups are directed and lead by the Same Holy Spirit! I don't believe in coincident; the teachings, the work, results and spirits are almost identical. I will post the 2×2 Sweedish Incorp. Document, Where the 2x2 workers wrote down their 2x2 doctrine and they are very similar to the Vaudios and most of the 2x2 workers don't KNOW too much information about the 2x2 Vaudois 1800 years belief, 2x2 workers/apostles CELIBACY Itinerant ministry and their existence.
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Post by Roselyn T on Feb 16, 2021 2:21:18 GMT -5
But...they are NOT the 2x2s nathan !!! No matter how hard you try and link them ! This is an example of how you try to change things to suit your own beliefs, but you still have not worked out that just because YOU THINK IT,does make it a fact ! *** You don't KNOW that! I will show you the documents of The 2x2 workers and the Vaudois apostles have similar 2x2 CELIBACY workers apostolic ministry! The Sunday morning worship in the homes of believers. The early days workers believed Jesus is God and the Trinity! Unfortunately, most of the current workers and friends had been taught incorrectly by many senior workers and overseers, who didn't understand the Godhead since 1950-2021 Jesus is NOT God; the Trinity is the devils doctrine and heresy. The workers believing in Two callings as the Vaudois the apostles/Workers calling and the friends/Church elders. The early days Waldenses did NOT believing in building churches to worship! they met in the homes of believers for a place of worship but they preach the gospel in many places... Just like the 2x2 workers! They have many similar belief and similar spirits of the early days workers. I believe BOTH groups are directed and lead by the Same Holy Spirit! I don't believe in coincident; the teachings, the work, results and spirits are almost identical. I will post the 2×2 Sweedish Incorp. Document, Where the 2x2 workers wrote down their 2x2 doctrine and they are very similar to the Vaudios and most of the 2x2 workers don't KNOW too much information about the 2x2 Vaudois 1800 years belief, 2x2 workers/apostles CELIBACY Itinerant ministry and their existence. Similar does NOT mean the same nathan ! I wonder how many Workers would agree with you !
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 2:36:49 GMT -5
I would think if you are being talked about you are closer to the truth than blindly conforming to the legalism of the Sadducees and Pharisees fixitIt reminds me of... Luke 6:26 What sorrow awaits you who are praised by the crowds, for their ancestors also praised false prophets. ** What a bunch of Baloney! You KNOW to post verses but you take them out of context. Wally and I are the most hated NOT praised two people on this board! Your verse doesn't apply to us, mate... Good try, elder not for long I don't think.
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 2:39:37 GMT -5
*** You don't KNOW that! I will show you the documents of The 2x2 workers and the Vaudois apostles have similar 2x2 CELIBACY workers apostolic ministry! The Sunday morning worship in the homes of believers. The early days workers believed Jesus is God and the Trinity! Unfortunately, most of the current workers and friends had been taught incorrectly by many senior workers and overseers, who didn't understand the Godhead since 1950-2021 Jesus is NOT God; the Trinity is the devils doctrine and heresy. The workers believing in Two callings as the Vaudois the apostles/Workers calling and the friends/Church elders. The early days Waldenses did NOT believing in building churches to worship! they met in the homes of believers for a place of worship but they preach the gospel in many places... Just like the 2x2 workers! They have many similar belief and similar spirits of the early days workers. I believe BOTH groups are directed and lead by the Same Holy Spirit! I don't believe in coincident; the teachings, the work, results and spirits are almost identical. I will post the 2×2 Sweedish Incorp. Document, Where the 2x2 workers wrote down their 2x2 doctrine and they are very similar to the Vaudios and most of the 2x2 workers don't KNOW too much information about the 2x2 Vaudois 1800 years belief, 2x2 workers/apostles CELIBACY Itinerant ministry and their existence. Similar does NOT mean the same nathan ! I wonder how many Workers would agree with you ! ** The workers and the friends that I showed the Vaudois and 2x2 workers doctrines, belief, CELIBACY 2x2 itinerant ministry, they just marveled in amazement.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2021 3:02:27 GMT -5
Similar does NOT mean the same nathan ! I wonder how many Workers would agree with you ! ** The workers and the friends that I showed the Vaudois and 2x2 workers doctrines, belief, CELIBACY 2x2 itinerant ministry, they just marveled in amazement. I too marvel in amazement at some of the stuff you come up with.
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 3:06:35 GMT -5
** The workers and the friends that I showed the Vaudois and 2x2 workers doctrines, belief, CELIBACY 2x2 itinerant ministry, they just marveled in amazement. I too marvel in amazement at some of the stuff you come up with. ** I have been studying these things for 40 years, mate.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2021 3:08:50 GMT -5
With all due respect Wally, you and Nate would leave a trail of destruction behind you in the work. Better stick to your internet worker work. i have not heard anything bad about nathan in my region while he was in the work. however one of your own workers came on here and questioned what you are doing in the truth. maybe its time for you to re-evaluate your elder position in our church along with your pals before you do any more destruction. with all due respect of course... Just wondering, Wally...do American hymn books have some of the pages stuck (or torn out)? We sing the following words Downunder, but it wouldn't fit with yours and Nate's gospel... Was there e’er so kind a Shepherd, One so gentle yet so great, As the Saviour, who would have us Come and gather round His feet? There’s a wideness in God’s mercy, Like the wideness of the sea; There’s a kindness in His justice, Which is more than liberty. There is no place where earth’s sorrows Are more felt than up in heaven; There is no place where earth’s failings Have such kindly judgment given. For the love of God is broader Than the measure of man’s mind, And the heart of the Eternal Is most wonderfully kind.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 3:22:22 GMT -5
i have not heard anything bad about nathan in my region while he was in the work. however one of your own workers came on here and questioned what you are doing in the truth. maybe its time for you to re-evaluate your elder position in our church along with your pals before you do any more destruction. with all due respect of course... Just wondering, Wally...do American hymn books have some of the pages stuck (or torn out)? We sing the following words Downunder, but it wouldn't fit with yours and Nate's gospel... Was there e’er so kind a Shepherd, One so gentle yet so great, As the Saviour, who would have us Come and gather round His feet? There’s a wideness in God’s mercy, Like the wideness of the sea; There’s a kindness in His justice, Which is more than liberty. There is no place where earth’s sorrows Are more felt than up in heaven; There is no place where earth’s failings Have such kindly judgment given. For the love of God is broader Than the measure of man’s mind, And the heart of the Eternal Is most wonderfully kind. that is a hymn(but a good one)not the bible and from the bible we know Love does not come at the expense of truth and Christ, The Baptist, Paul and other were quite blunt in their telling the truth of the matter...
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 3:32:23 GMT -5
i have not heard anything bad about nathan in my region while he was in the work. however one of your own workers came on here and questioned what you are doing in the truth. maybe its time for you to re-evaluate your elder position in our church along with your pals before you do any more destruction. with all due respect of course... Just wondering, Wally...do American hymn books have some of the pages stuck (or torn out)? We sing the following words Downunder, but it wouldn't fit with yours and Nate's gospel... Was there e’er so kind a Shepherd, One so gentle yet so great, As the Saviour, who would have us Come and gather round His feet? There’s a wideness in God’s mercy, Like the wideness of the sea; There’s a kindness in His justice, Which is more than liberty. There is no place where earth’s sorrows Are more felt than up in heaven; There is no place where earth’s failings Have such kindly judgment given. For the love of God is broader Than the measure of man’s mind, And the heart of the Eternal Is most wonderfully kind. *** Too many down under non exclusive 2x2s have become exes and many are hardcore atheists eventually. We see some of 2x2 non-exclusive in U.S. growing but they know the workers do NOT put up with them... We see in the case of Brandon from Texas! The overseer and Brandon church elders allowed him to attend the meetings but didn't allow him to speak! Brandon non-exclusive belief ideas, opinions caused too much disturbance at convention testimony time and Sunday morning meetings. They asked him NOT to speak in his Sunday meetings but he was welcome to take parts of the emblems. Not long after that he joined his girlfriend church and left the 2x2 on his own. I predict many of you 2x2 non-exclusive down under will end up like Brandon leave 2x2 group on your own. Those who decide to stay will NOT be happy from within.
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Post by Grant on Feb 16, 2021 4:34:58 GMT -5
Brandon was years ago. One person years ago, can't you do better than that? The ones banned from speaking are usually divorced and remarried people atoning for their so called sins by being told not to speak.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2021 4:48:41 GMT -5
*** Too many down under non exclusive 2x2s have become exes and many are hardcore atheists eventually. Nope. Your mumbo-jumbo, anti-science, literalistic, hard-line, love-deficient preaching is more likely to lead to Atheism. The retention rate in New Zealand has been pretty good compared with other countries.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2021 4:50:42 GMT -5
Just wondering, Wally...do American hymn books have some of the pages stuck (or torn out)? We sing the following words Downunder, but it wouldn't fit with yours and Nate's gospel... Was there e’er so kind a Shepherd, One so gentle yet so great, As the Saviour, who would have us Come and gather round His feet? There’s a wideness in God’s mercy, Like the wideness of the sea; There’s a kindness in His justice, Which is more than liberty. There is no place where earth’s sorrows Are more felt than up in heaven; There is no place where earth’s failings Have such kindly judgment given. For the love of God is broader Than the measure of man’s mind, And the heart of the Eternal Is most wonderfully kind. that is a hymn(but a good one)not the bible and from the bible we know Love does not come at the expense of truth and Christ, The Baptist, Paul and other were quite blunt in their telling the truth of the matter... The truth of the matter is that the disciples of Jesus are known by their love one for another.
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Post by fixit on Feb 16, 2021 4:52:02 GMT -5
I too marvel in amazement at some of the stuff you come up with. ** I have been studying these things for 40 years, mate. Take a break Nate, it's doing your head in.
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Post by Pragmatic on Feb 16, 2021 5:29:32 GMT -5
** I have been studying these things for 40 years, mate. Take a break Nate, it's doing your head in. Doing or done?
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 9:43:58 GMT -5
*** Too many down under non exclusive 2x2s have become exes and many are hardcore atheists eventually. Nope. Your mumbo-jumbo, anti-science, literalistic, hard-line, love-deficient preaching is more likely to lead to Atheism. The retention rate in New Zealand has been pretty good compared with other countries. I have seen the result on TMB for over 20 years, and outside of TMB for 40 years, elder. Remember, what happened to the non-exclusive worker John Long in 1907, how he was excommunicated from the ministry and the fellowship. It was NOT by accident the overseer, senior workers excommunicated him, it was moved and done by the Holy Spirit to preserve the Truth and Way of God from joining/going back the Harlot/RCC and 60,000 plus of her daughter denominations, on the earth to the time of Jesus returns to establish His eternal Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 9:58:30 GMT -5
Sending forth the Vaudois/apostles preachers into the world. Two callings: Apostles and Disciples.
Some among the brethren devoted themselves entirely to traveling and ministering the Word and were called "the Perfect" and in accordance with the Lord's word in (Matthew 19:21) "If thou will be Perfect, go and SELL that thou has, and give to the poor, and thou shall have treasures in heaven, and come and follow me." The apostles or the Perfect "Possess nothing," they had NO homes, and Literally Acted upon this command. It was recognize that ALL believers are NOT call to such a path, and that the MAJORITY of believers, while acknowledge that they and ALL belong to Christ, should serve Him while "Remaining" in their families and continuing their usual occupations. Those whom they called "Apostles" played an important part in their testimony. While the elders of the churches and believers "Remained" in their homes, the "Apostles" traveled continually, visiting the churches. A distinction was made between those called to be Apostles or Perfect, and others followers of Christ, based on the fact that in the Gospel some were called to SELL ALL that they had and follow Christ, while others of His disciples were equally called to serve Him in the surroundings in which He found them. The Vaudois/Waldensian Apostles had NO property or goods or home or family; if they HAD these they left them. Their life was one of self-denial, hardship and danger. They traveled in utmost simplicity, without money, without second suit, their needs being supplied by the "Believers" among whom they ministered the Word. They Always go Two and Two, an elder and a younger man, of whom the latter waited on his older companion. No need for seminary school since the Holy Spirit is the only Teacher they need. Their visits were highly esteemed, and they were treated with every token of respect and affection. They NEVER ask for anything; indeed, many undertook serious medical studies that they might be able to care for the bodies of those they met with. The Name "Friends of God" was often given to them. They were required to commit to memory the Gospels of Matthew and John, the general epistles, and a part of those of Paul. They were instructed, moreover, during two or three successive winters, and trained to speak in Latin, and in Italian. They were supported by voluntary contributions of the believers. One part was given to the ministers, once to the poor, and the third was reserved for the missionaries of the Church. These missionaries always Went Forth Two and Two, a young man and old one. The latter was the Regidor, and his COMPANION the Coadjutor.They traveled to Italy, where they had stations organized in many places, and secret adherents in almost all the towns. Each minister was required to become a missionary in his turn. The younger ones were thus initiated into the delicate duties of evangelization--each of them being under the experienced guidance of a man of years, who according to the discipline of his church, was his superior, and whom he was bound to obey in everything as a matter of duty, and not merely out of deference. The Older man, on his part, thus made his preparation for repose, by training for the Church Successors worthy of it and of himself. His task being accomplished, he could die in peace, with consolatory assurance of having Committed the Sacred Trust of the Gospel into Prudent and Zealous hands. Their maintenance of the absolute authority of the Word of God, and of the doctrine of Salvation by Jesus Christ.The Vaudois, therefore, are not schematics, but continued inheritors of the Church founded by the Apostles . Very few of them were married (in the ministry); and their perpetual missions, their poverty, their missionary tours, their life always spent amidst warfare and dangers, make it easy to understand the reason of their Celibacy. In the annual synod (special gatherings), which was held in the Valleys, inquiry was made concerning the conduct of the ministers and changes of residence were made amongst them. Those actually employed in the ministry were changed from place to place every three years---two of them always exchanging places with another, except the aged men, who were no longer removed. The Vaudois were bound to visit the sick; they admonished those who behaved ill, and if remonstrance's produced no effect, they went to length of Excommunication; but it was very rare. Constitution of the organization ’Kristna i Sverige’ (2x2 Christians in Sweden)
1 - Name: The organizations name is Christians in Sweden Organization 2 - Purpose: The organization has the goal to in all simplicity, uprightness and respect spread the doctrine of Jesus Christ according to the bible. 3 – Organization and field of activity: The organizations members are divided into 2 groups.
Group A: Preachers/apostles Group B: Believers/disciples Preachers/apostles (group A) have left their professions and property and gone out in faith to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the teaching of the bible. Matthew 19:21 and 27 and Matthew 28:18-20. They shall strengthen the believers, teach the Bible, visit the hospitals, take funerals and be a support and encouragement for the believers in their homes and in their work as well as encourage them to be good citizens in their country. As well they shall spend their whole time to freely and to all preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Group A receives no wage but the organization guarantees them free board and support. Luke 8:3. Believers in group B shall live in their own homes, have their own profession and shall have no economic responsibilities to the organization. Worship services are to be held in the believer’s homes. Acts 2:46 and 20:7.
The organization shall not own buildings or property and shall not receive government money. Gifts and support to the organization shall be used completely to cover costs for the organizations activities and conventions, the organizations preachers/apostles as well as support to similar work in other countries. www.tellingthetruth.info/workers_articles/swedeninc.php~~ Nathan: The 2x2 workers and the Vaudois apostles have similar 2x2 CELIBACY workers apostolic ministry! The Sunday morning worship in the homes of believers.
The early days workers believed Jesus is God and the Trinity! Unfortunately, most of the current workers and friends had been taught incorrectly by many senior workers and overseers, who didn't understand the Godhead since 1950-2021 Jesus is NOT God; the Trinity is the devils doctrine and heresy.
The workers believing in Two callings as the Vaudois the apostles/Workers calling and the friends/Church elders.
The early days Waldenses did NOT believing in building churches to worship! they met in the homes of believers for a place of worship but they preach the gospel in many places... Just like the 2x2 workers! They have many similar belief and similar spirits of the early days workers.
I believe BOTH groups are directed and lead by the Same Holy Spirit! I don't believe in coincident; the teachings, the work, results and spirits are almost identical.
The 2×2 Sweedish Incorp. Document, showed some of the 2x2 workers doctrine, belief and they are very similar to the Vaudois/Waldenses but most of the 2x2 workers don't KNOW too much information about the 2x2 Vaudois 1800 years belief, 2x2 workers/apostles CELIBACY Itinerant ministry and their existence.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 10:06:58 GMT -5
that is a hymn(but a good one)not the bible and from the bible we know Love does not come at the expense of truth and Christ, The Baptist, Paul and other were quite blunt in their telling the truth of the matter... The truth of the matter is that the disciples of Jesus are known by their love one for another. the truth of the matter is that they never expressed love at the expense of truth...
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 10:37:10 GMT -5
Collected posts on Feb 28, 2019 Christiansburg (2x2/ex-worker) Wrote:
I personally had never heard of the Waldensians until about 10 years ago. Our ministry is so different that I wondered if there were others who ever tried it before 1898. That is when I read about that group, a recent visit to their museum and personal conversations with them revealed that they seemed to change from what they had done earlier as a 2x2 group. I asked why they had changed and was told that they knew they had to give up some of their earlier ideas in order to survive. As you know they merged with the Presbyterians.None of the workers I knew years ago ever spoke of the Waldensians. Maybe they knew. Maybe they didn't. I just don't know.If you research the Waldenses you will find a treasure trove of information of what you ask about. I studied about them several years ago got a book from one of their museums in North Carolina. There is a historical record of them written by (Rev.) John Hons published in 1982 -- second edition. It is a long but detailed (and documented) record of their survival from the 1st century on. They migrated from central Italy to northwest Italy then into the Alps and on to Switzerland. They were a repressed, hunted down and murdered group of people. The Romans Catholic Church were threatened by them and sought to eliminate them. A few survived and hid in Switzerland. They record a record of their homeless ministry, meetings in the home. Too much to detail here.
When I visited their museum it was housed in a Presbyterian Church. I told the minister there who gave us a guided tour that I knew their history and then ask why they gave up on following their past way of doing things. His words "...We had to release those ideas and merge with the Presbyterian Church in order to survive". I told him that because of that they had not survived. He agreed. The museum is located in Vale, NC. When the King James 1611 Bible was being translated it is believed that remnants of the Waldenses' Bible records may have been used. There is another book written by one of our friends also "Apostles Doctrine and Fellowship" written by Dr. Cornelius Jaenen. He is well educated having graduated from a Canadian university with a degree in history. Mr. Jaenen went to Ethopia in the early 1950's to provide an open home for the workers. He is not there now but maybe returned to Canada. His book is still available on Amazon for about $50.00. Cherie Kropp posted segments of his book here in 2016, I believe. She provided her critique also on this website. Mr Jaenen attempts to trace Apostolic Succession back to the the first 12 Apostles. If you read the book you can make your own assumptions about that. I am satisfied well enough just to accept that what we have in our fellowship today as being as near to the NT ministry and fellowship as anything I know about. I have been professing for 63 years. I started going to meetings in 1956. I came out from the Methodist church in 1956. My grandparents were Catholic and Episcopalian on my mother's side. On my father's side they were Baptist. I know 100% what goes on there. I also know full well the challenges we face. ~~ NathanB wrote: That is so awesome, Christianburg! Thanks, so much for the information and some of the early history of the 2x2. I first heard about the Vaudois/Waldesense when Jay W. and I were together as co-workers in North Bend, Oregon 1988-89.
There was a University church historian, who gave a lecture about the Vaudois/Waldenses and Peter Waldo in 1160 A.D. It was an amazing lecture to listen to her. A few months later, someone gave us the Pilgrim Church by Broadbent at Boring convention, and some of the workers Jay W. Randy R. and myself read the book in the car on our way to other conventions. We found out more information about the Vaudois history and Peter Waldo, the Frenchman who became follower of the Vaudois and his amazing 2x2 apostolic ministry up till the time he died. After I left the work in 1993, I put a lot of time searching, studying and find all I could about the Vaudois history and their belief, from other historians and their own church historians. I was astonished of the information available on the Internet on the Vaudois, Albigenses, Poor men of Lyons/France or Peter Waldo and his followers in the 11th century. Someone on TMB post the pilgrim church book by Broadbent and I am glad they did so others can read it for themselves. I had post many of their belief and teachings for 20 yrs. Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses
Date first posted: July 2010 gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.htmlPope John Paul and Pope Francis asked forgiveness on Monday for the Roman Catholic Church's "non-Christian and inhumane" treatment in the past of the Waldensians."
www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/28/pope-francis-waldensians_n_7644916.html?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000055~~ The Waldense today are the exes of Waldenses who departed from the main group in 1500s and they became some of the Protestants and began to build churches buildings a place of Worship for Christ's Eucharists just like the RCC. They became a few of the RCC 60,000 plus Protestants daughters.
We see the same is happening within the 2x2s church today with the Non-exclusive 2x2 among us, they want us to accept and merge with the RCC and her 60,000 plus Protestant denominations. That is against the Teaching of God and Christ read Rev. 18:4-5 And I/John heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." Satan is using the same tactic today with the non-exclusive 2x2s like he did with the ex-Waldenses who became the Presbyterians and others denominations. Satan, Many ex-2x2s, and the Non-exclusive 2x2s among us, want/encourage the 2x2s to Join the churches of your choice, and NOT to HOLDFAST to Jesus Celibacy apostolic Itinerant ministry and New Testament church which he and the apostles established 2000 years ago.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 16, 2021 12:08:32 GMT -5
Just wondering, Wally...do American hymn books have some of the pages stuck (or torn out)? We sing the following words Downunder, but it wouldn't fit with yours and Nate's gospel... Was there e’er so kind a Shepherd, One so gentle yet so great, As the Saviour, who would have us Come and gather round His feet? There’s a wideness in God’s mercy, Like the wideness of the sea; There’s a kindness in His justice, Which is more than liberty. There is no place where earth’s sorrows Are more felt than up in heaven; There is no place where earth’s failings Have such kindly judgment given. For the love of God is broader Than the measure of man’s mind, And the heart of the Eternal Is most wonderfully kind. *** Too many down under non exclusive 2x2s have become exes and many are hardcore atheists eventually. We see some of 2x2 non-exclusive in U.S. growing but they know the workers do NOT put up with them... We see in the case of Brandon from Texas! The overseer and Brandon church elders allowed him to attend the meetings but didn't allow him to speak! Brandon non-exclusive belief ideas, opinions caused too much disturbance at convention testimony time and Sunday morning meetings. They asked him NOT to speak in his Sunday meetings but he was welcome to take parts of the emblems. Not long after that he joined his girlfriend church and left the 2x2 on his own. I predict many of you 2x2 non-exclusive down under will end up like Brandon leave 2x2 group on your own. Those who decide to stay will NOT be happy from within. I predict that if you were to publically preach in a fellowship meeting or at a convention your Hollow Venus bull sh-e that you would be gone by lunch time.
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Post by nathan on Feb 16, 2021 12:53:13 GMT -5
*** Too many down under non exclusive 2x2s have become exes and many are hardcore atheists eventually. We see some of 2x2 non-exclusive in U.S. growing but they know the workers do NOT put up with them... We see in the case of Brandon from Texas! The overseer and Brandon church elders allowed him to attend the meetings but didn't allow him to speak! Brandon non-exclusive belief ideas, opinions caused too much disturbance at convention testimony time and Sunday morning meetings. They asked him NOT to speak in his Sunday meetings but he was welcome to take parts of the emblems. Not long after that he joined his girlfriend church and left the 2x2 on his own. I predict many of you 2x2 non-exclusive down under will end up like Brandon leave 2x2 group on your own. Those who decide to stay will NOT be happy from within. I predict that if you were to publically preach in a fellowship meeting or at a convention your Hollow Venus bull sh-e that you would be gone by lunch time. They will BELIEVE Jesus from Venus/heaven when he appears in the SKY! soon to give them the resurrection bodies to rule and reign with Him for 1000 years on the earth. And you 2x2 atheists will be like the 5 foolish virgins standing outside the gate weeping with regrets and great sorrows for eternity.
Rev. 20:4-10 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 16, 2021 12:55:09 GMT -5
I predict that if you were to publically preach in a fellowship meeting or at a convention your Hollow Venus bull sh-e that you would be gone by lunch time. They will BELIEVE Jesus from Venus/heaven when he appears in the SKY! soon to give them the resurrection bodies to rule and reign with Him for 1000 years on the earth. And you 2x2 atheists will be like the 5 foolish virgins standing outside the gate weeping with regrets and sorrow.
Rev. 20:4-10 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. It's just mythology Nathan..... don't waste your precious life on following fools.
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