|
Post by openingact34 on Jan 4, 2021 0:24:05 GMT -5
It is covered by the workers' authority, same as black stockings. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you" Hebrews 13 as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... You might need a refresher in basic obedience and professing. The famous letter from Dale Schultz explains how it is important to obey the workers even when you are told to do something wrong or not scriptural.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 4, 2021 1:03:29 GMT -5
Had one in the open since the 80’s. It has an “off” button. I don’t judge people who don’t want one, and I don’t expect people to judge me for having one. Simple, and a non-event really. Once again I'm given to wondering how much different (more wholesome) the fellowship would be if the Pragmatics and Fixits were the norm. I suspect there would be far fewer "bitter exes". I agree @ipsedixit and I would add speak to that as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 1:38:57 GMT -5
as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... You might need a refresher in basic obedience and professing. The famous letter from Dale Schultz explains how it is important to obey the workers even when you are told to do something wrong or not scriptural. that does not pass the smell test... 1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 4, 2021 1:41:59 GMT -5
as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... You might need a refresher in basic obedience and professing. The famous letter from Dale Schultz explains how it is important to obey the workers even when you are told to do something wrong or not scriptural. That is like saying follow the Blind leaders NO matters what! That is NOT according to the teachings of Jesus but the teachings of men... Peter and Paul made mistakes because they are humans but they were still godly men.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 2:55:17 GMT -5
From recent posts on this thread it would seem that only Wally and Nathan get their instructions from God. You can't trust those Workers.
Wally and Nathan must be the only ones who know God's Phone number. 1-240-776-2323
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jan 4, 2021 2:57:54 GMT -5
From recent posts on this thread it would seem that only Wally and Nathan get their instructions from God. You can't trust those Workers. Wally and Nathan must be the only ones who know God's Phone number. 1-240-776-2323 Yep it seems no one else is "perfect" enough @redback, including the Workers of their own church !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 3:09:22 GMT -5
From recent posts on this thread it would seem that only Wally and Nathan get their instructions from God. You can't trust those Workers. Wally and Nathan must be the only ones who know God's Phone number. 1-240-776-2323 its scriptural and common sense for a Christian to not follow every spirit that comes along without seeking answers from God/Christ and the Holy Spirit on any matter if you don't that is how inquisitions begin... nice Bruce Almighty reference though...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 3:16:12 GMT -5
Ros, I am starting to get a bit concerned, the second coming of Christ may have already occurred. He may be on TMB in disguise. The problem will be working out whose ring we have to kiss.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Jan 4, 2021 3:17:38 GMT -5
It is covered by the workers' authority, same as black stockings. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you" Hebrews 13 as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... Yup, on this we agree
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 4:42:02 GMT -5
Had one in the open since the 80’s. It has an “off” button. I don’t judge people who don’t want one, and I don’t expect people to judge me for having one. Simple, and a non-event really. Once again I'm given to wondering how much different (more wholesome) the fellowship would be if the Pragmatics and Fixits were the norm. I suspect there would be far fewer "bitter exes". Over here (the UK) TV and radio were portrayed as 'trees of good and evil' This was a standard guidance. You rejected something because of the bad in it. You did not accept it because of the good in it. The good was merely bait to tempt people into accepting the bad. Then the internet and cell phone age came. We then rejected the good in these things and accepted the bad! Now we are just like the world.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Jan 4, 2021 5:00:19 GMT -5
To be fair, a lot of the “rules” about things like TV, was that because they didn’t really understand it, they feared it, and feared they would lose control.
Just like the Comte in the movie “Chocolat”.
Another factor also comes into play, and I call it the Sheep factor, because of the nature of the “following blindly”.
Imagine, a worker one day standing up and saying, “We encourage folks to not wear black jerseys, because it is the mark of The World”. Some would go, “What a load of Tosh”, and ignore it. Many would not think for themselves and decide the worker was God’s anointed, and must know best, and it is a message from on high, and discard their black jerseys. Others would think, this is a bit strange, but in order to not offend their brethren who are no longer wearing black jerseys, they also would not. Some of those in the first category would feel alienated and prefer to fit in to avoid strife. Only a few Mavericks would remain, and they would not be given positions of privilege, or meetings, because they are seen to “not have it”.
And that folks is how you get religion, that is the antithesis of what Jesus preached.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 5:10:30 GMT -5
To be fair, a lot of the “rules” about things like TV, was that because they didn’t really understand it, they feared it, and feared they would lose control. Just like the Comte in the movie “Chocolat”. Another factor also comes into play, and I call it the Sheep factor, because of the nature of the “following blindly”. Imagine, a worker one day standing up and saying, “We encourage folks to not wear black jerseys, because it is the mark of The World”. Some would go, “What a load of Tosh”, and ignore it. Many would not think for themselves and decide the worker was God’s anointed, and must know best, and it is a message from on high, and discard their black jerseys. Others would think, this is a bit strange, but in order to not offend their brethren who are no longer wearing black jerseys, they also would not. Some of those in the first category would feel alienated and prefer to fit in to avoid strife. Only a few Mavericks would remain, and they would not be given positions of privilege, or meetings, because they are seen to “not have it”. And that folks is how you get religion, that is the antithesis of what Jesus preached. Thinking for yourself was condemned. One of the hallmarks of a wavering saint was 'questioning' whatever the workers said or their doctrine. A worker's word was law. Disobeying or questioning a worker was akin to disobeying or questioning God. At least Nathan spent some time on Guam!
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 4, 2021 5:26:41 GMT -5
Good to see you actually argue the language case they made. And then you use apocalyptic literature which you obviously do not understand what it was written for. I have not researched the Apocalypse of Peter, but I have of Revelation and if you get your head around the Reign of Nero and Domitian Revelation makes perfect sense. So my question would be to you, what is Peter describing, I assume you've looked?. youtu.be/L0-tFahPVIUyoutu.be/sE2oaGa2fJUIm all for personal opinion, but if your going to have one at least show some reasoning why you think the language does show eternal torture and why the author was wrong and why you think the Apocalypse of Peter supports your view on the Authors mistaken understanding of the language. The 12yr old jibe was lame in this light. The meaning is plain. Verse after verse about eternal torture of sinners in gory detail. Not figurative, but literal. Trying to interpret it otherwise is quite absurd. One especially interesting point is the description of the angels. "Angels that punished them had their raiment dark". "Angels, tormentors, were set over them". We see the same description of Jesus and the angels as torturers in the Revelation of John "They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb." Many people are confused and think that the angels are loving protectors. But scripture shows them to be God's even more evil version of the SS death squads in the concentration camps. Their function is to torture human beings for all eternity. Much of what Jesus taught is not on record. But the writings of early Christians like Peter shows an embrace of the eternal torture monster. And for 2000 years, faithful Christians who have had God working in their hearts have embraced the same doctrine of eternal torture. It is incredibly arrogant to arrive more than two millennia late on the scene and declare that all those generations of believers were wrong, and modern-day Chuck has all the answers. Again a peronsal option(which is fine) with no asnwer to why you don't think, the language suggests its higly unlikely to be eternal(physically for ever) in a westerners understanding, the apocalyptic literature in Revelation was not a future reality like you are suggesting but present one, for example the imagery around "the seven stars in my right hand", go and look at the coin depicting this exact thing, clearly metaphorical or a repsonse to a actual present reality of Domitians son. Your absurd claim is as credible as your non existent language rebuttal. A quick study of Domitian would tell you a lot of of the imagery in Revelation is a description of current events of the Domitian reign which again makes your claim that its absurd to read it any other way grossly ignorant and the accusation of being arrogant as founded as the the people putting Galileo in hell for suggesting that maybe it's not as it seems.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 6:24:05 GMT -5
Once again I'm given to wondering how much different (more wholesome) the fellowship would be if the Pragmatics and Fixits were the norm. I suspect there would be far fewer "bitter exes". Over here (the UK) TV and radio were portrayed as 'trees of good and evil' This was a standard guidance. You rejected something because of the bad in it. You did not accept it because of the good in it. The good was merely bait to tempt people into accepting the bad. Then the internet and cell phone age came. We then rejected the good in these things and accepted the bad! Now we are just like the world. Or, in terms of your first paragraph, we let the good in these things tempt us into accepting the bad. Which is exactly what Satan’s plan is (apparently). Matt10
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 6:39:08 GMT -5
To be fair, a lot of the “rules” about things like TV, was that because they didn’t really understand it, they feared it, and feared they would lose control. Just like the Comte in the movie “Chocolat”. Another factor also comes into play, and I call it the Sheep factor, because of the nature of the “following blindly”. Imagine, a worker one day standing up and saying, “We encourage folks to not wear black jerseys, because it is the mark of The World”. Some would go, “What a load of Tosh”, and ignore it. Many would not think for themselves and decide the worker was God’s anointed, and must know best, and it is a message from on high, and discard their black jerseys. Others would think, this is a bit strange, but in order to not offend their brethren who are no longer wearing black jerseys, they also would not. Some of those in the first category would feel alienated and prefer to fit in to avoid strife. Only a few Mavericks would remain, and they would not be given positions of privilege, or meetings, because they are seen to “not have it”. And that folks is how you get religion, that is the antithesis of what Jesus preached. If you reject rule based religion and following blindly then why do you blindly follow a book that was produced by an extremely rule based religion which rejected personal interpretation of scripture? Surely you are just moving the line of blind adherence to a point whereby you are above it leaving the sincere and obedient 2x2 adherent below it. Matt10
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 6:45:14 GMT -5
Over here (the UK) TV and radio were portrayed as 'trees of good and evil' This was a standard guidance. You rejected something because of the bad in it. You did not accept it because of the good in it. The good was merely bait to tempt people into accepting the bad. Then the internet and cell phone age came. We then rejected the good in these things and accepted the bad! Now we are just like the world. Or, in terms of your first paragraph, we let the good in these things tempt us into accepting the bad. Which is exactly what Satan’s plan is (apparently). Matt10 Either you professed longer than me, or you have a better way of expressing yourself? By the way, have you ever been to Guam?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 6:50:10 GMT -5
Or, in terms of your first paragraph, we let the good in these things tempt us into accepting the bad. Which is exactly what Satan’s plan is (apparently). Matt10 Either you professed longer than me, or you have a better way of expressing yourself? By the way, have you ever been to Guam? I suspect it is neither of these things. I simply took the well expressed phrase in your first paragraph and ran with it. Or in footballing terms you beat five men and shot and hit the bar and I simply tapped it in. Matt10
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 4, 2021 7:13:25 GMT -5
Either you professed longer than me, or you have a better way of expressing yourself? By the way, have you ever been to Guam? I suspect it is neither of these things. I simply took the well expressed phrase in your first paragraph and ran with it. Or in footballing terms you beat five men and shot and hit the bar and I simply tapped it in. Matt10 Ah but you are credited with the all important goal. I am only credited with an 'assist!' Nevertheless, a team effort by a Scotsman and an Irishman. Now where have I heard that before?
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 4, 2021 8:56:05 GMT -5
It is covered by the workers' authority, same as black stockings. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you" Hebrews 13 as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... 30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:03:44 GMT -5
as with anything when you are told to do something you should always verify it through scripture not everyone in leadership is necessarily getting their "doctrine" from God...the OT and NT show us this... 30ce.com/developmentofhell.htmyou can keep your corrupt sources to yourself no one in their right Christian mind should listen to you...
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 4, 2021 9:11:22 GMT -5
you can keep your corrupt sources to yourself no one in their right Christian mind should listen to you... You should read it wally.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:15:34 GMT -5
you can keep your corrupt sources to yourself no one in their right Christian mind should listen to you... You should read it wally. nope. we are suppose to edify scripture not destroy it...
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 4, 2021 9:35:50 GMT -5
You should read it wally. nope. we are suppose to edify scripture not destroy it... All the more reason.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 9:47:40 GMT -5
nope. we are suppose to edify scripture not destroy it... All the more reason. nothing you have ever offered edifies scripture it does however destroy...hmm i wonder where i have heard that before: Joh_10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. its not really much of a choice when its God/Christ and the Holy Spirit or you...you'll lose every time...
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 4, 2021 10:11:14 GMT -5
you can keep your corrupt sources to yourself no one in their right Christian mind should listen to you... You should read it wally. I read it and it's NOT a sound doctrine.The myth of hell developed steadily after Yeshua's death in 30 CE, but it does not appear in the Old Testament, the New Testament, Yeshua's teachings, the Acts of the Apostles, Paul's epistles, or the other epistles in the canon. The explanation of how it developed in the church follows. 30ce.com/developmentofhell.htmHell/the realm of the dead started in the garden of Eden AFTER Adam and Eve had sin, their souls and all of the humans souls go to Hades the realm of the dead inside the earth, but their bodies stay in the graves. The Old Testament believers souls were set FREE to heaven After Jesus paid the ransom price of theirs and ours sins on Calvary.
The unbelievers souls in the Old and New Testament are still stuck the realm of the dead, waiting for the day they will be judged by God and Christ, then God will cast their souls in the lake of fire for eternity.
The souls of New Testament no longer go to Hades or the realm of the dead inside the earth, where Satan keeps them until all of them including himself, and all of the fallen angels appear the Judgment seat of God and Christ. After death the believers souls go directly to heaven to be with God and Christ in heaven, waiting for the time when God and Christ will give them the Resurrection bodies to RULE and REIGN with Him on earth for 1000 years.
|
|
|
Post by openingact34 on Jan 4, 2021 10:49:08 GMT -5
The meaning is plain. Verse after verse about eternal torture of sinners in gory detail. Not figurative, but literal. Trying to interpret it otherwise is quite absurd. One especially interesting point is the description of the angels. "Angels that punished them had their raiment dark". "Angels, tormentors, were set over them". We see the same description of Jesus and the angels as torturers in the Revelation of John "They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb." Many people are confused and think that the angels are loving protectors. But scripture shows them to be God's even more evil version of the SS death squads in the concentration camps. Their function is to torture human beings for all eternity. Much of what Jesus taught is not on record. But the writings of early Christians like Peter shows an embrace of the eternal torture monster. And for 2000 years, faithful Christians who have had God working in their hearts have embraced the same doctrine of eternal torture. It is incredibly arrogant to arrive more than two millennia late on the scene and declare that all those generations of believers were wrong, and modern-day Chuck has all the answers. Again a peronsal option(which is fine) with no asnwer to why you don't think, the language suggests its higly unlikely to be eternal(physically for ever) in a westerners understanding, the apocalyptic literature in Revelation was not a future reality like you are suggesting but present one, for example the imagery around "the seven stars in my right hand", go and look at the coin depicting this exact thing, clearly metaphorical or a repsonse to a actual present reality of Domitians son. Your absurd claim is as credible as your non existent language rebuttal. A quick study of Domitian would tell you a lot of of the imagery in Revelation is a description of current events of the Domitian reign which again makes your claim that its absurd to read it any other way grossly ignorant and the accusation of being arrogant as founded as the the people putting Galileo in hell for suggesting that maybe it's not as it seems. More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 13:41:20 GMT -5
HELL NO!!!.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 4, 2021 13:46:44 GMT -5
Again a peronsal option(which is fine) with no asnwer to why you don't think, the language suggests its higly unlikely to be eternal(physically for ever) in a westerners understanding, the apocalyptic literature in Revelation was not a future reality like you are suggesting but present one, for example the imagery around "the seven stars in my right hand", go and look at the coin depicting this exact thing, clearly metaphorical or a repsonse to a actual present reality of Domitians son. Your absurd claim is as credible as your non existent language rebuttal. A quick study of Domitian would tell you a lot of of the imagery in Revelation is a description of current events of the Domitian reign which again makes your claim that its absurd to read it any other way grossly ignorant and the accusation of being arrogant as founded as the the people putting Galileo in hell for suggesting that maybe it's not as it seems. More self superior nonsense from you...sad. So many Christians across history, from east and west, all united in accepting that God is going to eternally torture sinners. The only link to modern western thinking is that unending torture is repulsive to your modern, secular-tainted mind. The best source of doctrine on the Internet is of course GotQuestions. Just ask any ex2x2 or TMB moderator. www.gotquestions.org/eternal-damnation.htmlPerhaps the most important quote from that article: "Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven." I was thinking about New Years resolutions and that really struck me as powerful. I'd like to follow the example of Jesus in 2021 and make more of my posts about Hell than any other topic. It would even be a better bonus if others could join in and we could make most of the TMB topics and posts focused on hell.
|
|