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Post by nathan on Jan 2, 2021 14:26:20 GMT -5
Let the readers decide which sale men they want to believe.... Wally/Nathan or Matthew10/Ipse.. Matt10/Ipse... *** Of course you witches, atheists, unbelievers, skeptics, and so on will believe Matthew10 and Sip Atheists salesmen... Same birds of feathers flock together!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 15:34:22 GMT -5
Psa_116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow. <<<< how can there be pain in the grave? we can go open any grave you want and there is nothing but bones in there and maybe a little hair...how can there be trouble in a grave? or sorrow do bones and hair cry? Pro_23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. <<<< how can you deliver the soul of someone dead from being put in a grave Isa_14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. <<< how can being dead in the grave cause the dead you to be stirred up? how can dead people(kings) in a grave be raised up? Eze_31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. <<< how can dead person be comforted in the grave, yes a little confusing because who's "comforted" in hell Eze_32:21 The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword. <<< how does a dead person speak from the grave? Jon_2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.<<< i have never heard a dead person cry from the grave how can you be afflicted in the grave? all these things are activities last i knew dead people in graves don't do anything but lay there unless of course one believes in zombies...these are clear hints that hell is something else other than just a grave/sheol/gehenna It appears to me that you are now rolling back from your claim that the [Christian] concept [of hell] is all over the Old Testament and now claiming that the references to hell in the OT are merely hints that hell is something else other than just a grave/sheol. I would suggest that based on what biblical scholars say there is no basis for claiming they are even hints at all. Starting with your references in the Psalms, here is what the eminent biblical scholar Bart Ehrman, Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies, says about the references to hell in Psalms [see source 1 below] “passages in the Book of Psalms that talk about Sheol, or Sheol. It's a word that gets mistranslated into English. Sometimes Sheol is translated by the word hell, and it absolutely is not what people think of as hell.”
“The Bible does talk about this place Sheol, especially in poetry, especially in Psalms. And it's probably not a place that people go to, per se. If you actually look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, they always equate it to the grave or to the pit.” [my emphasis]In relation to your reference to Proverbs here’s what W. Creighton Marlowe, Associate Professor of the Old Testament, writes (see source 2 below] “ That anyone would think [Hebrew word for Sheol] in this verse means "Hell" is utterly amazing and inexplicable.” (my emphasis] And here’s what he says in relation to your reference to Ezekiel 31 v16 “ The [Hebrew word for Sheol] of v. 16 is clearly the same as "the pit," which is the same as "death," which is equated in the context with a hole in the ground ("pit”) or the lower parts of the earth; i.e., the grave or realm of the dead.” (my emphasis] As regards all 31 references to “hell” in the KJV (which includes the others you provided) Marlowe says “ ‘ Hell’ occurs thirty-one times in the current editions of the KJV and nineteen times in the New King James Version (NKJV, 1982).1 It does not occur in modem, major English versions; e.g., in the USA, the New International Version (NN, 1978), New American Standard Version (NASB, 1960), New Revised Standard Version (NRSV, 1989), or New American Bible (NAB, 1970).” (my emphasis] He then goes on to talk about the New KJV which he says “ has eliminated thirteen of the thirty-one times "hell" appears in the KJV” and proves an evaluation of the 18 times it continues to use the word “hell” unlike the other modern versions referred to above. On this matter he concludes: “ None of the nineteen contexts (verses) where [Hebrew word for Sheol] is translated "hell" by the NKJV (eighteen of which have "hell" in the KJV also) is supportive of that translation. In each case the flow of argumentation and/or the poetic parallels proves that the author uses [Hebrew word for Sheol] for the concept of the grave or death.” (my emphasis] It is clear therefore based on those who are qualified to speak on the biblical texts that your understanding of “hell” in the OT is a misunderstanding. But of course the christian fundamentalist cannot afford to accept a different interpretation of hell from the Christian one as to do so risks removing the very thing that people are threatened by and which the Christian God is designed to save them from. Without the threat of hell not only is the need to pay any attention to the Christian God seriously diminished but the need for the Christian God at all is severely diminished. However for those interested in truth (rather than simply having their misplaced beliefs confirmed) these things matter and I would therefore encourage all non fundamentalist believers to read the two sources below. Remember extinguishing your belief in the imaginary place called hell can set you free. Matt10 Source 1 www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824479587/heaven-and-hell-are-not-what-jesus-preached-religion-scholar-says?t=1609573068030Source 2 place.asburyseminary.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.co.uk/&httpsredir=1&article=1194&context=asburyjournalumm lets try and be honest shall we? "clear hints" is a bit different than just "hints" in either case though its something in the OT and NT that give the reader the knowledge/concept that hell is something different than just the grave. bart erhman is an atheist of course he's gonna try and destroy the bible not adhere to it. marlow i don't know much about but as with most "scholars" of the bible they seek to destroy it and any understanding of it. the fact that he thinks NEW "modern" translations of the bible are better or more accurate than than the KJV is a clear clue that he has revisionist thinking going on in his mind. once again you've tried to challenge me and when i provided verses you've been stunned once again you can slink away now. nice try though nature god guy.. rolling back not required
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 15:39:14 GMT -5
longsuffering covers a lot of things... Where is the longsuffering? i'm still here preaching the same thing i always have despite the rejection...
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Post by nathan on Jan 2, 2021 15:41:51 GMT -5
Question: "What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?"
Answer: The different terms used in the Bible for heaven and hell—sheol, hades, gehenna, the lake of fire, paradise, and Abraham’s bosom—are the subject of much debate and can be confusing. The word paradise is used as a synonym for heaven (2 Corinthians 12:3–4; Revelation 2:7). When Jesus was dying on the cross and one of the thieves being crucified with Him asked Him for mercy, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Jesus knew that His death was imminent and that He would soon be in heaven with His Father. Therefore, Jesus used paradise as a synonym for heaven, and the word has come to be associated with any place of ideal loveliness and delight. Abraham’s bosom is referred to only once in the Bible—in the story of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19–31). Abraham’s bosom was used in the Talmud as a synonym for heaven. The image in the story is of Lazarus reclining at a table leaning on Abraham’s breast—as John leaned on Jesus’ breast at the Last Supper—at the heavenly banquet. The point of the story is that wicked men will see the righteous in a happy state, while they themselves are in torment, and that a “great gulf” that can never be spanned exists between them (Luke 16:26). Abraham’s bosom is obviously a place of peace, rest, and joy—in other words, paradise. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to describe the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” The New Testament Greek equivalent to sheol is hades, which is also a general reference to “the place of the dead.” The Greek word gehenna is used in the New Testament for “hell” and is derived from the Hebrew word hinnom. Other Scriptures in the New Testament indicated that sheol/hades is a temporary place where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection. The souls of the righteous, at death, go directly into the presence of God—the part of sheol called “heaven,” “paradise,” or “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23).The lake of fire, mentioned only in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, 14-15, is the final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, both angelic and human (Matthew 25:41). It is described as a place of burning sulfur, and those in it experience eternal, unspeakable agony of an unrelenting nature (Luke 16:24; Mark 9:45-46). Those who have rejected Christ and are in the temporary abode of the dead in hades/sheol have the lake of fire as their final destination. But those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life should have no fear of this terrible fate. By faith in Christ and His blood shed on the cross for our sins, we are destined to live eternally in the presence of God.
www.gotquestions.org/sheol-hades-hell.html
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Post by matisse on Jan 2, 2021 16:12:00 GMT -5
Where is the longsuffering? i'm still here preaching the same thing i always have despite the rejection... That makes you persistent, not long-suffering. To be long-suffering, you'd need to do it all without the endless arguing, name-calling, and insult-hurling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 16:17:51 GMT -5
i'm still here preaching the same thing i always have despite the rejection... That makes you persistent, not long-suffering. To be long-suffering, you'd need to do it all without the endless arguing, name-calling, and insult-hurling. that is not the definition of long suffering: having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people: i think the word you are looking for is patience as in patiently continue(which is what i do despite the rejection) not necessarily persistent
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Post by Grant on Jan 2, 2021 16:31:11 GMT -5
That makes you persistent, not long-suffering. To be long-suffering, you'd need to do it all without the endless arguing, name-calling, and insult-hurling. that is not the definition of long suffering: having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people: i think the word you are looking for is patience as in patiently continue(which is what i do despite the rejection) not necessarily persistent Your long suffering is showing again Wally
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Post by matisse on Jan 2, 2021 16:56:15 GMT -5
That makes you persistent, not long-suffering. To be long-suffering, you'd need to do it all without the endless arguing, name-calling, and insult-hurling. that is not the definition of long suffering: having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people: i think the word you are looking for is patience as in patiently continue(which is what i do despite the rejection) not necessarily persistent Nah, 'Patience' is not at all a word that comes to mind when I think of you. The words 'persistence' and (especially)'stubbornness' do; neither is a FOTS. Name-calling, endless arguing, and insult-hurling are antithetical to the concepts of 'patience' and 'long-suffering'.
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Post by Annan on Jan 2, 2021 18:26:00 GMT -5
Matt10/Ipse... *** Of course you witches, atheists, unbelievers, skeptics, and so on will believe Matthew10 and Sip Atheists salesmen... Same birds of feathers flock together! Yeah. We do!
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Post by nathan on Jan 2, 2021 19:01:01 GMT -5
*** Of course you witches, atheists, unbelievers, skeptics, and so on will believe Matthew10 and Sip Atheists salesmen... Same birds of feathers flock together! Yeah. We do! ** We believers stick together most of the time,too! We have a better hope and a better future with God and Christ. All You atheists have is nothing much to look forward to just pains, suffering and regrets for eternity. How can you be happy with that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 1:06:07 GMT -5
It appears to me that you are now rolling back from your claim that the [Christian] concept [of hell] is all over the Old Testament and now claiming that the references to hell in the OT are merely hints that hell is something else other than just a grave/sheol. I would suggest that based on what biblical scholars say there is no basis for claiming they are even hints at all. Starting with your references in the Psalms, here is what the eminent biblical scholar Bart Ehrman, Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies, says about the references to hell in Psalms [see source 1 below] “passages in the Book of Psalms that talk about Sheol, or Sheol. It's a word that gets mistranslated into English. Sometimes Sheol is translated by the word hell, and it absolutely is not what people think of as hell.”
“The Bible does talk about this place Sheol, especially in poetry, especially in Psalms. And it's probably not a place that people go to, per se. If you actually look at what the Psalms say about Sheol, they always equate it to the grave or to the pit.” [my emphasis]In relation to your reference to Proverbs here’s what W. Creighton Marlowe, Associate Professor of the Old Testament, writes (see source 2 below] “ That anyone would think [Hebrew word for Sheol] in this verse means "Hell" is utterly amazing and inexplicable.” (my emphasis] And here’s what he says in relation to your reference to Ezekiel 31 v16 “ The [Hebrew word for Sheol] of v. 16 is clearly the same as "the pit," which is the same as "death," which is equated in the context with a hole in the ground ("pit”) or the lower parts of the earth; i.e., the grave or realm of the dead.” (my emphasis] As regards all 31 references to “hell” in the KJV (which includes the others you provided) Marlowe says “ ‘ Hell’ occurs thirty-one times in the current editions of the KJV and nineteen times in the New King James Version (NKJV, 1982).1 It does not occur in modem, major English versions; e.g., in the USA, the New International Version (NN, 1978), New American Standard Version (NASB, 1960), New Revised Standard Version (NRSV, 1989), or New American Bible (NAB, 1970).” (my emphasis] He then goes on to talk about the New KJV which he says “ has eliminated thirteen of the thirty-one times "hell" appears in the KJV” and proves an evaluation of the 18 times it continues to use the word “hell” unlike the other modern versions referred to above. On this matter he concludes: “ None of the nineteen contexts (verses) where [Hebrew word for Sheol] is translated "hell" by the NKJV (eighteen of which have "hell" in the KJV also) is supportive of that translation. In each case the flow of argumentation and/or the poetic parallels proves that the author uses [Hebrew word for Sheol] for the concept of the grave or death.” (my emphasis] It is clear therefore based on those who are qualified to speak on the biblical texts that your understanding of “hell” in the OT is a misunderstanding. But of course the christian fundamentalist cannot afford to accept a different interpretation of hell from the Christian one as to do so risks removing the very thing that people are threatened by and which the Christian God is designed to save them from. Without the threat of hell not only is the need to pay any attention to the Christian God seriously diminished but the need for the Christian God at all is severely diminished. However for those interested in truth (rather than simply having their misplaced beliefs confirmed) these things matter and I would therefore encourage all non fundamentalist believers to read the two sources below. Remember extinguishing your belief in the imaginary place called hell can set you free. Matt10 Source 1 www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824479587/heaven-and-hell-are-not-what-jesus-preached-religion-scholar-says?t=1609573068030Source 2 place.asburyseminary.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.co.uk/&httpsredir=1&article=1194&context=asburyjournalumm lets try and be honest shall we? "clear hints" is a bit different than just "hints" in either case though its something in the OT and NT that give the reader the knowledge/concept that hell is something different than just the grave. bart erhman is an atheist of course he's gonna try and destroy the bible not adhere to it. marlow i don't know much about but as with most "scholars" of the bible they seek to destroy it and any understanding of it. the fact that he thinks NEW "modern" translations of the bible are better or more accurate than than the KJV is a clear clue that he has revisionist thinking going on in his mind. once again you've tried to challenge me and when i provided verses you've been stunned once again you can slink away now. nice try though nature god guy.. rolling back not required Stunned? You scored 0 out of 6! You were asked to provide 6 references to hell in the OT where the term “hell” has the meaning which Christians ascribe to it (a place of eternal punishment where the souls of the wicked and unbelievers go after death) and you didn’t provide any. If scoring zero out of six is your idea of meeting the challenge then by all means congratulate yourself. But it’s hardly necessary to point out that any fool could have found 6 references to ‘hell’ in the KJV using the search engine on biblehub or similar sites. Remember Old Testament Professor Marlow has expressed astonishment that anyone would think the Hebrew word for Sheol means "Hell" in Proverbs 23;14 ..... but yet you did. And of course the reason why you couldn’t provide any references to the Christian hell in the OT is because there aren’t any. The Christian version of hell is a man made place just as the Christian God is a man made God. Hell like the Christian God exists only in your head. That’s why Christian fundamentalists have to pretend that the OT contains references to the Christian version of hell when it clearly doesn’t. I think it is always worth pointing out that Bart Ehrman was a Christian fundamentalist when he embarked on his career as a biblical scholar and he is on record as saying that he did so for the purpose of being able to demonstrate that the bible was the inerrant word of God. However through his study of the biblical texts it became obvious to him that the bible was by no means inerrant but in fact contained errors and inconsistencies and mistranslations one of which is the Old Testament mistranslation of the word Sheol. It was this which led to abandon his his fundamentalism as when faced with the overwhelming evidence of the truth he couldn’t continue to maintain his false beliefs. It’s not about destroying the bible or any understanding of it. It’s about accepting truth. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 1:34:08 GMT -5
umm lets try and be honest shall we? "clear hints" is a bit different than just "hints" in either case though its something in the OT and NT that give the reader the knowledge/concept that hell is something different than just the grave. bart erhman is an atheist of course he's gonna try and destroy the bible not adhere to it. marlow i don't know much about but as with most "scholars" of the bible they seek to destroy it and any understanding of it. the fact that he thinks NEW "modern" translations of the bible are better or more accurate than than the KJV is a clear clue that he has revisionist thinking going on in his mind. once again you've tried to challenge me and when i provided verses you've been stunned once again you can slink away now. nice try though nature god guy.. rolling back not required Stunned? You scored 0 out of 6! You were asked to provide 6 references to hell in the OT where the term “hell” has the meaning which Christians ascribe to it (a place of eternal punishment where the souls of the wicked and unbelievers go after death) and you didn’t provide any. If scoring zero out of six is your idea of meeting the challenge then by all means congratulate yourself. But it’s hardly necessary to point out that any fool could have found 6 references to ‘hell’ in the KJV using the search engine on biblehub or similar sites. Remember Old Testament Professor Marlow has expressed astonishment that anyone would think the Hebrew word for Sheol means "Hell" in Proverbs 23;14 ..... but yet you did. And of course the reason why you couldn’t provide any references to the Christian hell in the OT is because there aren’t any. The Christian version of hell is a man made place just as the Christian God is a man made God. Hell like the Christian God exists only in your head. That’s why Christian fundamentalists have to pretend that the OT contains references to the Christian version of hell when it clearly doesn’t. I think it is always worth pointing out that Bart Ehrman was a Christian fundamentalist when he embarked on his career as a biblical scholar and he is on record as saying that he did so for the purpose of being able to demonstrate that the bible was the inerrant word of God. However through his study of the biblical texts it became obvious to him that the bible was by no means inerrant but in fact contained errors and inconsistencies and mistranslations one of which is the Old Testament mistranslation of the word Sheol. It was this which led to abandon his his fundamentalism as when faced with the overwhelming evidence of the truth he couldn’t continue to maintain his false beliefs. It’s not about destroying the bible or any understanding of it. It’s about accepting truth. Matt10 methinks thou dost protest too much...i passed with flying colors. your rejection of facts and verses along with your "scholars" isn't really my problem. Hell/sheol/gehenna or which ever label you wish to apply is something more than just the grave. but then a nature god guy that abandoned Jehovah/God isn't gonna understand much when it comes to scripture.
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Post by Dan on Jan 3, 2021 2:54:52 GMT -5
My understanding is that Hades is the Greek word for Sheol, which is just the grave, but neither is hell. Gehenna is an example of hell, which is the other side of Paradise, separated by a gulf (parable of Lazarus and the rich man). Both places are Hades/Sheol, but believers are in Paradise while all others await judgement in hell. The Lake of Fire is not hell or a place, but the execution of the condemned waiting in hell.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 3:31:51 GMT -5
Stunned? You scored 0 out of 6! You were asked to provide 6 references to hell in the OT where the term “hell” has the meaning which Christians ascribe to it (a place of eternal punishment where the souls of the wicked and unbelievers go after death) and you didn’t provide any. If scoring zero out of six is your idea of meeting the challenge then by all means congratulate yourself. But it’s hardly necessary to point out that any fool could have found 6 references to ‘hell’ in the KJV using the search engine on biblehub or similar sites. Remember Old Testament Professor Marlow has expressed astonishment that anyone would think the Hebrew word for Sheol means "Hell" in Proverbs 23;14 ..... but yet you did. And of course the reason why you couldn’t provide any references to the Christian hell in the OT is because there aren’t any. The Christian version of hell is a man made place just as the Christian God is a man made God. Hell like the Christian God exists only in your head. That’s why Christian fundamentalists have to pretend that the OT contains references to the Christian version of hell when it clearly doesn’t. I think it is always worth pointing out that Bart Ehrman was a Christian fundamentalist when he embarked on his career as a biblical scholar and he is on record as saying that he did so for the purpose of being able to demonstrate that the bible was the inerrant word of God. However through his study of the biblical texts it became obvious to him that the bible was by no means inerrant but in fact contained errors and inconsistencies and mistranslations one of which is the Old Testament mistranslation of the word Sheol. It was this which led to abandon his his fundamentalism as when faced with the overwhelming evidence of the truth he couldn’t continue to maintain his false beliefs. It’s not about destroying the bible or any understanding of it. It’s about accepting truth. Matt10 methinks thou dost protest too much...i passed with flying colors. your rejection of facts and verses along with your "scholars" isn't really my problem. Hell/sheol/gehenna or which ever label you wish to apply is something more than just the grave. but then a nature god guy that abandoned Jehovah/God isn't gonna understand much when it comes to scripture. Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.. Proverbs 26:4. Matt10
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Post by mountain on Jan 3, 2021 6:12:08 GMT -5
longsuffering covers a lot of things... I know exactly what you are saying, Wally.... I have been doing it on here longsuffering with people like RT, Curly, Annan, fixit for 20 years! on TMB... It's amazing we are still posting on here, that is a miracle most of them had left or died.Nathan my dear buddy, am I not worthy of a specific mention? I hope it is not because I haven't been to Guam that you are not considering me?
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Post by nathan on Jan 3, 2021 8:23:28 GMT -5
I know exactly what you are saying, Wally.... I have been doing it on here longsuffering with people like RT, Curly, Annan, fixit for 20 years! on TMB... It's amazing we are still posting on here, that is a miracle most of them had left or died. Nathan my dear buddy, am I not worthy of a specific mention? I hope it is not because I haven't been to Guam that you are not considering me? Mountain, my list of names for MY long suffering are MANY to post! Yes, you are included on that list, Ram. I was trying to nice and to names just a few of the current ones.
God KNOWS who they are the last 20 years, it goes way back. He will hold them accountable in the day of judgment. Jesus said in Matthew 13: 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Christian Standard Bible For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Contemporary English Version On that day they will be told they are either innocent or guilty because of the things they have said.
Rev. 20:12-15 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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Post by mountain on Jan 3, 2021 10:26:32 GMT -5
Nathan my dear buddy, am I not worthy of a specific mention? I hope it is not because I haven't been to Guam that you are not considering me? Mountain, my list of names for MY long suffering are MANY to post! Yes, you are included on that list, Ram. I was trying to nice and to names just a few of the current ones.
God KNOWS who they are the last 20 years, it goes way back. He will hold them accountable in the day of judgment. Jesus said in Matthew 13: 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Christian Standard Bible For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Contemporary English Version On that day they will be told they are either innocent or guilty because of the things they have said.
Rev. 20:12-15 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Many thanks my dear friend. I had thought that you had forgotten about me and I was feeling left out. Maybe I should visit Guam some day?
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Post by nathan on Jan 3, 2021 11:23:45 GMT -5
Mountain, my list of names for MY long suffering are MANY to post! Yes, you are included on that list, Ram. I was trying to nice and to names just a few of the current ones.
God KNOWS who they are the last 20 years, it goes way back. He will hold them accountable in the day of judgment. Jesus said in Matthew 13: 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Christian Standard Bible For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Contemporary English Version On that day they will be told they are either innocent or guilty because of the things they have said.
Rev. 20:12-15 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Many thanks my dear friend. I had thought that you had forgotten about me and I was feeling left out. Maybe I should visit Guam some day? You should visit the island of Guam perhaps, God will give you revelation on the island... If you can go to the TREE, where the workers had Bible studies under there at the University of Guam. Many of the workers and the friends visit Guam, they are often go to that Tree, where 12 of us students professed.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 3, 2021 11:24:00 GMT -5
I think it is always worth pointing out that Bart Ehrman was a Christian fundamentalist when he embarked on his career as a biblical scholar and he is on record as saying that he did so for the purpose of being able to demonstrate that the bible was the inerrant word of God. However through his study of the biblical texts it became obvious to him that the bible was by no means inerrant but in fact contained errors and inconsistencies and mistranslations one of which is the Old Testament mistranslation of the word Sheol. It was this which led to abandon his his fundamentalism as when faced with the overwhelming evidence of the truth he couldn’t continue to maintain his false beliefs. It’s not about destroying the bible or any understanding of it. It’s about accepting truth. Matt10 [/quote] Have you watched this debate between mike licona and Bart ?! I have not taken the time , yet , but I stumbled on to Mike’s blog or something , and he was expressing his appreciation of their personal friendship , between them , in spite of their vast difference of “belief ” www.risenjesus.com/mike-licona-vs-bart-ehrman-2018
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2021 11:30:13 GMT -5
Yeah. We do! ** We believers stick together most of the time,too! We have a better hope and a better future with God and Christ. All You atheists have is nothing much to look forward to just pains, suffering and regrets for eternity. How can you be happy with that? "When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free— free to think, to express my thoughts— free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself... I was free!" ~ IngersolElliot’s Speech on TV Show Mr. Robot: "Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help my innocent friend who died for no reason while the guilty ran free? Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus. I'm talking about all organized religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh- to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasizing mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that wanna run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise. If I don't listen to my imaginary friend, why the f*ck should I listen to yours? People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. Even I'm not crazy enough to believe that distortion of reality. So f*ck God. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me."Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity. ~ Thomas Paine
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Post by nathan on Jan 3, 2021 11:45:58 GMT -5
** We believers stick together most of the time,too! We have a better hope and a better future with God and Christ. All You atheists have is nothing much to look forward to just pains, suffering and regrets for eternity. How can you be happy with that? "When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free— free to think, to express my thoughts— free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself... I was free!" ~ IngersolElliot’s Speech on TV Show Mr. Robot: "Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help my innocent friend who died for no reason while the guilty ran free? Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus. I'm talking about all organized religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh- to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasizing mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that wanna run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise. If I don't listen to my imaginary friend, why the f*ck should I listen to yours? People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. Even I'm not crazy enough to believe that distortion of reality. So f*ck God. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me."Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity. ~ Thomas Paine These words are from a bunch of looney sinners men... If you want to trust their words instead the Lord God Jesus Christ who created the Universe and mankind. Go for it and you will pay the BIG price for it after death.~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God (From The Dead Sea Scrolls) I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him. I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind. It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me. I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you! It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me. Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me. Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.” Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen! You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact. © Dr. Frank E. Stranges
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Post by mountain on Jan 3, 2021 11:49:14 GMT -5
Many thanks my dear friend. I had thought that you had forgotten about me and I was feeling left out. Maybe I should visit Guam some day? You should visit the island of Guam perhaps, God will give you revelation on the island... If you can go to the TREE, where the workers had Bible studies under there at the University of Guam. Many of the workers and the friends visit Guam, they are often go to that Tree, where 12 of us students professed.
I think I must make that pilgrimage Nathan. I have heard so much (mainly from yourself) about the Guam-den of Eden and its Tree of Life, that it would be remiss of me not to visit it some day. Did the 12 students who professed then go out 2x2?
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2021 11:55:43 GMT -5
"When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free— free to think, to express my thoughts— free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself... I was free!" ~ IngersolElliot’s Speech on TV Show Mr. Robot: "Is that what God does? He helps? Tell me, why didn't God help my innocent friend who died for no reason while the guilty ran free? Okay. Fine. Forget the one offs. How about the countless wars declared in his name? Okay. Fine. Let's skip the random, meaningless murder for a second, shall we? How about the racist, sexist, phobia soup we've all been drowning in because of him? And I'm not just talking about Jesus. I'm talking about all organized religion. Exclusive groups created to manage control. A dealer getting people hooked on the drug of hope. His followers, nothing but addicts who want their hit of bullsh- to keep their dopamine of ignorance. Addicts. Afraid to believe the truth. That there's no order. There's no power. That all religions are just metastasizing mind worms, meant to divide us so it's easier to rule us by the charlatans that wanna run us. All we are to them are paying fanboys of their poorly-written sci-fi franchise. If I don't listen to my imaginary friend, why the f*ck should I listen to yours? People think their worship's some key to happiness. That's just how he owns you. Even I'm not crazy enough to believe that distortion of reality. So f*ck God. He's not a good enough scapegoat for me."Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity. ~ Thomas Paine These words are from a bunch of looney sinners men... If you want to trust their words instead the Lord God Jesus Christ who created the Universe and mankind. Go for it and you will pay the BIG price for it after death.~~ Jesus The Great " I AM " God (From The Dead Sea Scrolls) I, the Lord God of creation, who was and who is and who shall always be the one true God, the mind, the very center of the Universe, speaks to your own heart. The words that I have spoken to my prophets Moses and others were that he should recognize that the great “I Am.” filled his being with the power and the authority to open his mouth in my name and to proclaim his words as a living words that I placed deeply within him. I have in times past spoken through the mouths of my prophets and then through the mouths of my apostles. Now the times and seasons are approaching, as are the reasons, when my words shall again be spoken by my obedient prophets and apostles. Their words shall be my words and their deeds that shall be my deeds, because I have spoken this thing before the World was ever formed. Those words that I now speak shall be hidden for a season and then shall be revealed in the last times I shall cause the Earth to quake and the sunlight, which represents the new dawning, shall shine brightly upon those who are appointed to carry my words from the darkness of the caves to the bright sunlight of my new revelation to all mankind ... and mankind shall read and they shall study those words and they shall find that they are the words that will cause an awakening to occur in the minds of mankind. It has been said in times past that I am in the wind and I am in the fire and I am into the waters. These words are not true. The truth of this matter is that I am the wind. I am the fire. I am the water. I am in everything and in everything that exists. When you touch the mountain, you touch me. When you are touching the water, you are touching me. When you touch the fire, you are touching me. I am the Lord of the Universe and there is not one place that I am not. I am not in the flowers, the plants, the fruit of the land, but I am the flowers. I am the plants. I am the fruit of the land. Mankind will climb into the heavens. I am not in the heavenly, but I am the heavenly. When I created man from the dust of the Earth, I was the dust of the Earth and I was and am the breath of life that causes mankind to live.Say not that the Lord your God is in the heavens or on the Earth. I am the heavens and I am the Earth. Now you have received the true revelation of my word, which was spoken to you in times past. The word said that I am everywhere present. I am omnipresent. I am not part of myself, but rather I am the whole of the Universe. Wherever you look, wherever you come or go, whatever you do or say, I am there in the midst of you because I am not only in, but rather I am you! It shall be written in the future that man is the universe. I say to you that I do not dwell in the universe of mankind, but I am that Universe of Mankind, and there is no separation whatsoever. These words that I have spoken to you at this time and in this place are that you might believe the truth of the message that as my Father is one with me so is the Spirit one with me. Now I am likewise in you and you are in me and that means I am one and you are with me. Have I not spoken these words in the past that I am in you and you are in me? (John 17:21) Jesus said, " That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Let this testimony be with you forever and forever, as we together traverse the streets of that sojourn from dawn to night. Be at peace and look deeply within yourself and you will find me. Again I have spoken the words in the past that you are indeed gods. I am your God. This revelation is of utmost importance and you must believe the whole truth as I have spoken it in your pure hearing. I say to you, allow the vibrations of your spirit, your inner ear, be unstopped and hear what the Spirit says to you at this hour. I am the center of your universe, because I am the whole of your universe. Know this, for this is the word of the living God, the Creator of all things which are. In time and seasons to come this word will be revealed to you and you shall behold the brightness of this truth, and you shall say, “This is the light for which I have long awaited. This is the revelation that will hold and maintain me through every experience of life.” Beware, there are those who would destroy this truth, but they shall not be able to destroy this truth because the truth abides in you and you abide in the truth. I have spoken in times past. And I have said that the truth shall cause many to walk in freedom, out of darkness and satanic bondage. And they shall have no further influence or rule over you. I have spoken these truths by the words of my lips and these words are true. Accept them and you shall live in peace, in joy and in victory over all things. Amen! You are invited to share this information with others, but kindly acknowledge copyright and keep this article intact. © Dr. Frank E. Stranges Quoting scripture and quoting your Strange crap doesn't make it real. I simply cannot understand why you cannot understand that. You have no proof of anything. You constantly post hearsay from liars and conspiracy theorists. I still believe you are a commie spay who infiltrated the 2x2's to gain entry to the USA to spread your commie conspiracy crap.
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Post by nathan on Jan 3, 2021 11:56:15 GMT -5
You should visit the island of Guam perhaps, God will give you revelation on the island... If you can go to the TREE, where the workers had Bible studies under there at the University of Guam. Many of the workers and the friends visit Guam, they are often go to that Tree, where 12 of us students professed.
I think I must make that pilgrimage Nathan. I have heard so much (mainly from yourself) about the Guam-den of Eden and its Tree of Life, that it would be remiss of me not to visit it some day. Did the 12 students who professed then go out 2x2? One of the gals went in the work in California for 7 years, 4 had offered for the work. One of the students son is in the work in California for 7 years now.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 3, 2021 12:05:34 GMT -5
Interesting
Are all 12 still professing ?
Alvin
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Post by mountain on Jan 3, 2021 12:51:57 GMT -5
I think I must make that pilgrimage Nathan. I have heard so much (mainly from yourself) about the Guam-den of Eden and its Tree of Life, that it would be remiss of me not to visit it some day. Did the 12 students who professed then go out 2x2? One of the gals went in the work in California for 7 years, 4 had offered for the work. One of the students son is in the work in California for 7 years now.
How many of the four students who offered for the work were accepted? Was one of them Wally?
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Post by nathan on Jan 3, 2021 14:43:13 GMT -5
One of the gals went in the work in California for 7 years, 4 had offered for the work. One of the students son is in the work in California for 7 years now.
How many of the four students who offered for the work were accepted? Was one of them Wally? ** haha... Two of them offered to the same tough nut to crack overseer like the one refused Wally offered. One of them with drew from the workers waiting list,0 was my brother. My family from Vietnam wanted me to sponsor 5 of them to come to America because they want a better life in America the an under the Communist govt. I had been workers waiting list for 5 years and my brother 1 year. My brother wanted me to keep on waiting and he will take his name off the workers waiting list so, he could be the sponsor to bring our family from Vietnam to America. My brother started a family and they sponsored my family and they came to America in 1990. They are doing good these days. I had offered for the work to the same overseer as Wally did, Tharold. He was tough NUT to crack and very difficult be around. I had my share of tough time with him also! I had to mined to Oregon and offered for the work again in 1996 to Howard Mooney and was accepted in the work 6 months later. If Wally had come to Oregon, Howard M. Would have taken him in the work. We called Howard Mooney "Barnabas" in our genration, he loves to give workers, ex-worker second and third chances. Howard M. Was so loveable, kind and compassionate overseer. He was 1 in millions overseer.
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Post by Grant on Jan 3, 2021 14:47:04 GMT -5
How many of those who professed do you know are still professing today. Does your brother still profess and go to meetings?
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