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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2020 8:38:29 GMT -5
As someone raised in the 2x2 and sexually abused as a child I find most of the post on this tread to be inflammatory and shameful on both sides of the 2x2 vs ex 2x2.
I left meeting because of the actions of MEN. I did not leave my faith in God. Believe me he was the only one I could pour my heart out to during that time. I joined this board back then and found some very compassionate people. Ironically one is in jail for sexual abuse.
I find it very interesting that some on this board blame God for the evil that men do but think all the good they do is because they are such good people.
God gave everyone a free will to do good or evil. I have never blamed GOD for the betrayal, abuse or horrid behavior of other people toward me. I understand they were given the same free will I have to commit evil or strive to be a better person no matter what we experiences in life.
Anger is a healthy part of reacting to abuse of all forms. Staying angry and bitter is not. It will destroy you and all you hold dear.
What I also find interesting is how many on this board claim to care about the abused but have never offered so much as a kind word to me about my abuse and betrayal. But they never miss a change to condemn my faith in GOD!
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 5, 2020 11:10:58 GMT -5
Yes thx Dan I can only imagine what greatness my daughter has now . Just a beautiful song . Needed that we are heading a bad day today . Song helped . I was finally able to write my daughter’s obituary .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 5, 2020 11:28:04 GMT -5
Heads up Yyc the worker’s are here and about checking on the sheep 🐑 No mom’s is on lock down in her facility . Thanks though . A wise idea decision not , but it went ahead elsewhere and brought mom some peace as we grieve . Hide the tv . I am not sure if 🤔 that is great , but whatever works with worker’s but be vigilant in your home . Staying overnight at elders and friends homes . Stay safe .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 5, 2020 12:53:22 GMT -5
Forgotten you can have any creator you chose .Keep moving and there is such beauty and new journey’s ahead . No some day you might get some compensation . We are working on that presently .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 5, 2020 12:55:35 GMT -5
✌️ out It’s gonna be a bad day later all . Downtime Wrote her obituary finally and am in a dark place and hurting 😢 . I love you Care🐻
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Post by chuck on Oct 5, 2020 19:25:56 GMT -5
I have been a born and raised 2x2 ...... all the workers i ever met were sincere and i never experienced any thing like you all talk about! it can be a mind shaking realization that there are some in the truth that have done the CSA thing... Usually happens to those who think they're exclusive then realise their not!. The more exclusive the bigger the fall!. Paul illustrates this perfectly. Trouble is the zealots take it physically literally and miss the point.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 6, 2020 15:47:02 GMT -5
it can be a mind shaking realization that there are some in the truth that have done the CSA thing... Usually happens to those who think they're exclusive then realise their not!. The more exclusive the bigger the fall!. Paul illustrates this perfectly. Trouble is the zealots take it physical literally and miss the point. Chuck, a person isn't necessarily a "zealot" just because they believe in something that they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood to be physical & literally true.
Not everyone can gain the high metaphysical plane that you seem to be living on.
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2020 16:32:04 GMT -5
Usually happens to those who think they're exclusive then realise their not!. The more exclusive the bigger the fall!. Paul illustrates this perfectly. Trouble is the zealots take it physical literally and miss the point. Chuck, a person isn't necessarily a "zealot" just because they believe in something that they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood to be physical & literally true.
Not everyone can gain the high metaphysical plane that you seem to be living on.
Yes I agree, but a zealot will say, you burn in hell if you don't see it my way or worship my concept of God. That is the zealots I refer to. I don't think I'm on a higher plain than anyone, we are all human beings. I don't think people should suffer if they dont see things like I do. Care to elaborate more?.
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Post by nathan on Oct 6, 2020 16:56:21 GMT -5
it can be a mind shaking realization that there are some in the truth that have done the CSA thing... Usually happens to those who think they're exclusive then realise their not!. The more exclusive the bigger the fall!. Paul illustrates this perfectly. Trouble is the zealots take it physically literally and miss the point. ** Can you show me where did Paul illustrate Exclusive was the bigger fall?
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2020 20:48:55 GMT -5
Usually happens to those who think they're exclusive then realise their not!. The more exclusive the bigger the fall!. Paul illustrates this perfectly. Trouble is the zealots take it physically literally and miss the point. ** Can you show me where did Paul illustrate Exclusive was the bigger fall? Pauls vision was in a nutshell a realization that the Exclusive Characteristics he was displaying was far from Character of Christ. Paul was displaying the characteristics of 2x2ism. Exclusiveness, judgemental, categorising people ect. Luckily today the world is a better place and 2x2ism can only resort to bullying excommunication tactics and spiritually killing you otherwise their would be blood shed. You can read this vision as literally as you want but that is not the point. The point is the realisation that you cannot dish out judgement on those who dont see it like you do(excommunication, spiritual killing/actually killing people) because the Divine nature/Character of Christ has no knowledge of this behaviour. It literally should bring you to your knee's when you recognise this. Particularly if your breathing murderous threats to those not like you!. Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priestand asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem.As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!” “Yes, Lord,” he answered.The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem.And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.All those who heard him were astonished and asked, “Isn’t he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn’t he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priests?”Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah.After many days had gone by, there was a conspiracy among the Jews to kill him,but Saul learned of their plan. Day and night they kept close watch on the city gates in order to kill him.But his followers took him by night and lowered him in a basket through an opening in the wall.When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple.But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus.So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord.He talked and debated with the Hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.When the believers learned of this, they took him down to Caesarea and sent him off to Tarsus.Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers. - Acts 9:1-31 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:1-31&version=NIV
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Post by nathan on Oct 6, 2020 22:41:01 GMT -5
** Can you show me where did Paul illustrate Exclusive was the bigger fall? Pauls vision was in a nutshell a realization that the Exclusive Characteristics he was displaying was far from Character of Christ. Paul was displaying the characteristics of 2x2ism. Exclusiveness, judgemental, categorising people ect. Luckily today the world is a better place and 2x2ism can only resort to bullying excommunication tactics and spiritually killing you otherwise their would be blood shed. You can read this vision as literally as you want but that is not the point. The point is the realisation that you cannot dish out judgement on those who dont see it like you do(excommunication, spiritual killing/actually killing people) because the Divine nature/Character of Christ has no knowledge of this behaviour. It literally should bring you to your knee's when you recognise this. Particularly if your breathing murderous threats to those not like you!. - Acts 9:1-31 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts9:1-31&version=NIV Saul was a member an exclusive sect of the Pharisee. After Saul's conversion he became an exclusive group of Christians, who leader was and is Jesus Christ, the CORRECT one! and the ONLY ONE for all generation. Peter said to the high priests, and the Pharisees in Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 6, 2020 23:17:25 GMT -5
Chuck, a person isn't necessarily a "zealot" just because they believe in something that they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood to be physical & literally true.
Not everyone can gain the high metaphysical plane that you seem to be living on.
Yes I agree, but a zealot will say, you burn in hell if you don't see it my way or worship my concept of God. That is the zealots I refer to. I don't think I'm on a higher plain than anyone, we are all human beings. I don't think people should suffer if they don't see things like I do. Care to elaborate more?. Yes, -I do "care to elaborate."
Just because someone professing believes themselves "exclusive" just because that is the way they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood, -that does NOT make them a "zealot" in the way that as you seem to assert.
Those people are sincerely honest in their belief and you are selling then short.
PS: Yes, You are sounding as if you think you are on a "higher plain" than the rest of us. But at least thanks for not thinking that we should suffer if we don't see things like you do.
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Post by chuck on Oct 6, 2020 23:52:10 GMT -5
Yes I agree, but a zealot will say, you burn in hell if you don't see it my way or worship my concept of God. That is the zealots I refer to. I don't think I'm on a higher plain than anyone, we are all human beings. I don't think people should suffer if they don't see things like I do. Care to elaborate more?. Yes, -I do "care to elaborate."
Just because someone professing believes themselves "exclusive" just because that is the way they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood, -that does NOT make them a "zealot" in the way that as you seem to assert.
Those people are sincerely honest in their belief and you are selling then short.
PS: Yes, You are sounding as if you think you are on a "higher plain" than the rest of us. But at least thanks for not thinking that we should suffer if we don't see things like you do.
I agree as I said before, the zealots I refer to are fanatical to the point of threatening or carrying out threats or wishing harm on those who dont see it like them(burn in hell). Railing against this puts me on a higher plain?. I believe I'm saying I'm no higher than anyone else regardless of my opinions. Religous Zealots want to kill those not like them. They are saying, "Get them God but not us!". I don't believe zealots are a group as in the 2x2's, but a group as in "like minded". Plenty of 2x2 who are indoctrinated but dont have the zealot character. 2x2ism however does encourage being a zealot.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 7, 2020 0:53:41 GMT -5
Yes, -I do "care to elaborate."
Just because someone professing believes themselves "exclusive" just because that is the way they have been indoctrinated to believe from childhood, -that does NOT make them a "zealot" in the way that as you seem to assert.
Those people are sincerely honest in their belief and you are selling then short.
PS: Yes, You are sounding as if you think you are on a "higher plain" than the rest of us. But at least thanks for not thinking that we should suffer if we don't see things like you do.
I agree as I said before, the zealots I refer to are fanatical to the point of threatening or carrying out threats or wishing harm on those who dont see it like them(burn in hell). Railing against this puts me on a higher plain?. I believe I'm saying I'm no higher than anyone else regardless of my opinions. Religous Zealots want to kill those not like them. They are saying, "Get them God but not us!". I don't believe zealots are a group as in the 2x2's, but a group as in "like minded". Plenty of 2x2 who are indoctrinated but dont have the zealot character. 2x2ism however does encourage being a zealot. Good, -I am glad to hear that you don't believe that just by being a 2x2 that makes them automatically a "zealot."
As to the "higher plain" thing, -it is your attitude that your interpretation of the bible is accurate and that other people's interpretations are on a much "lower plain" that your own.
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Post by chuck on Oct 7, 2020 8:42:36 GMT -5
I agree as I said before, the zealots I refer to are fanatical to the point of threatening or carrying out threats or wishing harm on those who dont see it like them(burn in hell). Railing against this puts me on a higher plain?. I believe I'm saying I'm no higher than anyone else regardless of my opinions. Religous Zealots want to kill those not like them. They are saying, "Get them God but not us!". I don't believe zealots are a group as in the 2x2's, but a group as in "like minded". Plenty of 2x2 who are indoctrinated but dont have the zealot character. 2x2ism however does encourage being a zealot. Good, -I am glad to hear that you don't believe that just by being a 2x2 that makes them automatically a "zealot."
As to the "higher plain" thing, -it is your attitude that your interpretation of the bible is accurate and that other people's interpretations are on a much "lower plain" that your own. Hang no, sorry I gave that impression. I do get a bit zealous at times and don't explain myself clearly 😁. You wont burn in hell though 😁😁😉. It's not really my interpretation. I just try to look at it from a Hebraic perspective. Anyone can do it. Im not sure why more don't because how on earth can we begin to understand something when we're ignorant to the culture, concepts, conditions ect of the time being described?. instead we read it from our current perspective with 2000 years of religion between muddying the waters. If trying to understand this and expressing my views and how I arrive at them make it look like I think I'm on a higher plain all I can say is your entitled to your opinion and point taken. I don't know how to express my views any different so open to suggestions?. I will say when someone is suggesting you will burn in hell for what ever reason I feel obligated to point out that is not what the writers in the scriptures really had on their mind. I wouldn't have a clue wether It's literally true or not, but after lots of looking at Hebrew concepts culture ect I'm pretty confident they did not believe or really had in mind what religion has fed us for the last 2000 years about hell, fire, the devil, ect. I do not feel bad at all for defending the Character of Christ and how anyone can display it regardless of what they proclaim they believe and for whatever reason the religious zealots say it's impossible because one is not like them. The Character of Christ is lived out not proclaimed like the hell burning nutjobs would love to enforce with as much aggressiveness that they think they can get away with.
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Post by nathan on Oct 7, 2020 9:13:43 GMT -5
Good, -I am glad to hear that you don't believe that just by being a 2x2 that makes them automatically a "zealot."
As to the "higher plain" thing, -it is your attitude that your interpretation of the bible is accurate and that other people's interpretations are on a much "lower plain" that your own. Hang no, sorry I gave that impression. I do get a bit zealous at times and don't explain myself clearly 😁. You wont burn in hell though 😁😁😉. It's not really my interpretation. I just try to look at it from a Hebraic perspective. Anyone can do it. Im not sure why more don't because how on earth can we begin to understand something when we're ignorant to the culture, concepts, conditions ect of the time being described?. instead we read it from our current perspective with 2000 years of religion between muddying the waters. If trying to understand this and expressing my views and how I arrive at them make it look like I think I'm on a higher plain all I can say is your entitled to your opinion and point taken. I don't know how to express my views any different so open to suggestions?. I will say when someone is suggesting you will burn in hell for what ever reason I feel obligated to point out that is not what the writers in the scriptures really had on their mind. I wouldn't have a clue wether It's literally true or not, but after lots of looking at Hebrew concepts culture ect I'm pretty confident they did not believe or really had in mind what religion has fed us for the last 2000 years about hell, fire, the devil, ect. I do not feel bad at all for defending the Character of Christ and how anyone can display it regardless of what they proclaim they believe and for whatever reason the religious zealots say it's impossible because one is not like them. The Character of Christ is lived out not proclaimed like the hell burning nutjobs would love to enforce with as much aggressiveness that they think they can get away with. If HELL/the Lake of fire isn't literal and spiritual, Chuck... Then Christ/God Jesus would NOT have come down from heaven to die on Calvary's Cross for Adam, Eve and their fallen children sins to REDEEM them from the Second Death that is to be cast in the Lake of fire for Eternity because of disobedience and sins.
Jesus suffered a natural and spiritual Death on Calvary's for the sins of humanity So, no New Test childten of God souls will go to Hades after they died but to Heaven to be with Christ and God. HELL and Heaven are literal and REAL, Chuck.
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Post by jetmech on Oct 7, 2020 10:00:53 GMT -5
“I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, not the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.” - Ecclesiastes 9:11
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 7, 2020 11:07:32 GMT -5
FORGOTTEN YOUR ARE IN MY MIND A LOT , you are like a lotus . The Lotus flower is regarded in many different cultures, especially in eastern religions, as a symbol of purity, enlightenment, self-regeneration and rebirth. Its characteristics are a perfect analogy for the human condition: even when its roots are in the dirtiest waters, the Lotus produces the most beautiful flower. I understand somewhat , it’s not that I no longer have a god . I don’t blame god . I believe in Chinese Whispers & the universe . Not all on here can understand you , maybe because it never happened to them , they turn their heads away , when speaking of SCA . That is a not a decision they want to wade in on . Don’t talk , don’t tell . I have called out worker’s face to face and they will not reply . Not even a pic ! I am glad you have forgiven them . But you will never forget ! Turn on your lotus beautiful soul
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Post by intelchips on Oct 7, 2020 11:27:41 GMT -5
*** haha... That what they said about Jesus too! He had the devil, a drunkard. They called Paul a Lunatic for his much learning and understanding of the scriptures... Good to be on the same group of Jesus and Paul, I feel so humble. Thanks. Oh my gosh! I almost busted a gut laughing! Egotistical maniac is more like it! Many never ready with a critical eye. Example: "I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves." In other words don't stop at cutting the foreskin but cut deep and remove the whole penis.
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Post by jetmech on Oct 7, 2020 13:49:28 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! I almost busted a gut laughing! Egotistical maniac is more like it! Many never ready with a critical eye. Example: "I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves." In other words don't stop at cutting the foreskin but cut deep and remove the whole penis. Oh what a bizarre sick thing to have to read!
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Post by intelchips on Oct 7, 2020 13:53:17 GMT -5
Many never read with a critical eye. Example: "I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves." In other words don't stop at cutting the foreskin but cut deep and remove the whole penis. Oh what a bizarre sick thing to have to read! Is it okay to only read certain parts and disregard the rest?
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Post by chuck on Oct 7, 2020 18:15:49 GMT -5
Hang no, sorry I gave that impression. I do get a bit zealous at times and don't explain myself clearly 😁. You wont burn in hell though 😁😁😉. It's not really my interpretation. I just try to look at it from a Hebraic perspective. Anyone can do it. Im not sure why more don't because how on earth can we begin to understand something when we're ignorant to the culture, concepts, conditions ect of the time being described?. instead we read it from our current perspective with 2000 years of religion between muddying the waters. If trying to understand this and expressing my views and how I arrive at them make it look like I think I'm on a higher plain all I can say is your entitled to your opinion and point taken. I don't know how to express my views any different so open to suggestions?. I will say when someone is suggesting you will burn in hell for what ever reason I feel obligated to point out that is not what the writers in the scriptures really had on their mind. I wouldn't have a clue wether It's literally true or not, but after lots of looking at Hebrew concepts culture ect I'm pretty confident they did not believe or really had in mind what religion has fed us for the last 2000 years about hell, fire, the devil, ect. I do not feel bad at all for defending the Character of Christ and how anyone can display it regardless of what they proclaim they believe and for whatever reason the religious zealots say it's impossible because one is not like them. The Character of Christ is lived out not proclaimed like the hell burning nutjobs would love to enforce with as much aggressiveness that they think they can get away with. If HELL/the Lake of fire isn't literal and spiritual, Chuck... Then Christ/God Jesus would NOT have come down from heaven to die on Calvary's Cross for Adam, Eve and their fallen children sins to REDEEM them from the Second Death that is to be cast in the Lake of fire for Eternity because of disobedience and sins.
Jesus suffered a natural and spiritual Death on Calvary's for the sins of humanity So, no New Test childten of God souls will go to Hades after they died but to Heaven to be with Christ and God. HELL and Heaven are literal and REAL, Chuck.
Nathan this is exactly what I mean by saying we dont have a hope understanding the NT if we don't understand the OT. What you are repeating to me seems like 2000 years of religion derived from literal reading mainly of the NT. This is heavily influenced by Catholicism and you are repeating the very thing originating from the people you despise. Who said it was to be all read literally?. Who?. A Hebraic perspective sheds a whole new light on it, and what you will find is Heaven to those people, it seems more like a state of mind, not a specific place like us westerners push. Same with Hell. When they heard fire they thought purify, we think,flames,devil, hell, down. When they heard Eternal life, they thought a type of life lived out now, we think, living for ever and ever. When they heard hell they thought the grave or a rubbish dump life that stinks, we think burning, fire, down, devil. We think all these things, Hebrew people feel all these things. We think thoughts, they feel thoughts. We cannot grasp this because 2000+ years on our understanding and culture has evolved dramatically and we go back with our current understanding to read it, which we have to read it all quite literally to make sense with our current understanding, throw in the constant urge for man to control man by continued misuse of the scriptures by you must see it this way or we'll kill you and there we have it, Unity by way of Religion. The constant division and segregation of people by way of religion is the total opposite to the narrative of scripture. The best way to live your life is, Compassionate, Gracious, Slow to anger and Abounding in love, this cannot mix with religion when "you must worship my concept of God" is the religious motto. None of this is to say there is not a heaven or hell ect after you die, I dont know, but what I do know if your in hell now, you can bet you'll be in hell there!. The Character of Christ lived out in your life is Eternal life, heaven!, Now!.
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Post by nathan on Oct 7, 2020 19:02:05 GMT -5
If HELL/the Lake of fire isn't literal and spiritual, Chuck... Then Christ/God Jesus would NOT have come down from heaven to die on Calvary's Cross for Adam, Eve and their fallen children sins to REDEEM them from the Second Death that is to be cast in the Lake of fire for Eternity because of disobedience and sins.
Jesus suffered a natural and spiritual Death on Calvary's for the sins of humanity So, no New Test childten of God souls will go to Hades after they died but to Heaven to be with Christ and God. HELL and Heaven are literal and REAL, Chuck.
Nathan this is exactly what I mean by saying we dont have a hope understanding the NT if we don't understand the OT. What you are repeating to me seems like 2000 years of religion derived from literal reading mainly of the NT. This is heavily influenced by Catholicism and you are repeating the very thing originating from the people you despise. Who said it was to be all read literally?. Who?. A Hebraic perspective sheds a whole new light on it, and what you will find is Heaven to those people, it seems more like a state of mind, not a specific place like us westerners push. Same with Hell. When they heard fire they thought purify, we think,flames,devil, hell, down. When they heard Eternal life, they thought a type of life lived out now, we think, living for ever and ever. When they heard hell they thought the grave or a rubbish dump life that stinks, we think burning, fire, down, devil. We think all these things, Hebrew people feel all these things. We think thoughts, they feel thoughts. We cannot grasp this because 2000+ years on our understanding and culture has evolved dramatically and we go back with our current understanding to read it, which we have to read it all quite literally to make sense with our current understanding, throw in the constant urge for man to control man by continued misuse of the scriptures by you must see it this way or we'll kill you and there we have it, Unity by way of Religion. The constant division and segregation of people by way of religion is the total opposite to the narrative of scripture. The best way to live your life is, Compassionate, Gracious, Slow to anger and Abounding in love, this cannot mix with religion when "you must worship my concept of God" is the religious motto. None of this is to say there is not a heaven or hell ect after you die, I dont know, but what I do know if your in hell now, you can bet you'll be in hell there!. The Character of Christ lived out in your life is Eternal life, heaven!, Now!. *** Read Luke 16 Jesus/God the Creator of the Universe, and of all things and mankind. It was Jesus who told the children of Israel, believers and unbelievers where the souls went to AFTER death! Only a few in the Old Testament believers like king David knew his soul went to Hades waiting for the Messiah to redeem his soul and all believers from there to be with God. Jesus/God pulled the curtain and revealed to the humans the Secret where the souls go after death.
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Post by chuck on Oct 7, 2020 20:46:23 GMT -5
Nathan this is exactly what I mean by saying we dont have a hope understanding the NT if we don't understand the OT. What you are repeating to me seems like 2000 years of religion derived from literal reading mainly of the NT. This is heavily influenced by Catholicism and you are repeating the very thing originating from the people you despise. Who said it was to be all read literally?. Who?. A Hebraic perspective sheds a whole new light on it, and what you will find is Heaven to those people, it seems more like a state of mind, not a specific place like us westerners push. Same with Hell. When they heard fire they thought purify, we think,flames,devil, hell, down. When they heard Eternal life, they thought a type of life lived out now, we think, living for ever and ever. When they heard hell they thought the grave or a rubbish dump life that stinks, we think burning, fire, down, devil. We think all these things, Hebrew people feel all these things. We think thoughts, they feel thoughts. We cannot grasp this because 2000+ years on our understanding and culture has evolved dramatically and we go back with our current understanding to read it, which we have to read it all quite literally to make sense with our current understanding, throw in the constant urge for man to control man by continued misuse of the scriptures by you must see it this way or we'll kill you and there we have it, Unity by way of Religion. The constant division and segregation of people by way of religion is the total opposite to the narrative of scripture. The best way to live your life is, Compassionate, Gracious, Slow to anger and Abounding in love, this cannot mix with religion when "you must worship my concept of God" is the religious motto. None of this is to say there is not a heaven or hell ect after you die, I dont know, but what I do know if your in hell now, you can bet you'll be in hell there!. The Character of Christ lived out in your life is Eternal life, heaven!, Now!. *** Read Luke 16 Jesus/God the Creator of the Universe, and of all things and mankind. It was Jesus who told the children of Israel, believers and unbelievers where the souls went to AFTER death! Only a few in the Old Testament believers like king David knew his soul went to Hades waiting for the Messiah to redeem his soul and all believers from there to be with God. Jesus/God pulled the curtain and revealed to the humans the Secret where the souls go after death. Who told you to read it literally?. You havent even considered anything I said and are going straight to physical literal reading. Luke 16. Did you notice how the rich man in Hell still thought he was better than Lazarus and wanted Lazarus to serve him. Hell lets people stay exclusive Nathan. That is quite literal. Not sure how you derived a literal Hell from Luke 16 when everything points to a state not a physical place. The rich man wants Lazarus in heaven to serve him in hell? A great chasims but still carrying a conversation? Fire= Purifying felt and not thought. Richmans Gates, Exclusivism Richman, are you a richman Nathan?. Think twice before you answer. Remember what I said about if your(not you personally) in Hell here if there is a Hell "there" you'll also be in it. Hell was heaven for the richman here. Hell will let you stay selfish. 2x2ism is selfish, all about me and my literal eternal goal. Did you stop to think Jesus was a Hebrew man, how do you know he thinks it literally like you?. So many things we a ignorant of.
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Post by nathan on Oct 7, 2020 21:24:28 GMT -5
*** Read Luke 16 Jesus/God the Creator of the Universe, and of all things and mankind. It was Jesus who told the children of Israel, believers and unbelievers where the souls went to AFTER death! Only a few in the Old Testament believers like king David knew his soul went to Hades waiting for the Messiah to redeem his soul and all believers from there to be with God. Jesus/God pulled the curtain and revealed to the humans the Secret where the souls go after death. Who told you to read it literally? You havent even considered anything I said and are going straight to physical literal reading. Luke 16. Did you notice how the rich man in Hell still thought he was better than Lazarus and wanted Lazarus to serve him. Hell lets people stay exclusive Nathan. That is quite literal. Not sure how you derived a literal Hell from Luke 16 when everything points to a state not a physical place. The rich man wants Lazarus in heaven to serve him in hell? A great chasims but still carrying a conversation? Fire= Purifying felt and not thought. Richmans Gates, Exclusivism Richman, are you a richman Nathan?. Think twice before you answer. Remember what I said about if your(not you personally) in Hell here if there is a Hell "there" you'll also be in it. Hell was heaven for the richman here. Hell will let you stay selfish. 2x2ism is selfish, all about me and my literal eternal goal. Did you stop to think Jesus was a Hebrew man, how do you know he thinks it literally like you?. So many things we a ignorant of. I explained this parable many times in the past... After death most of Old Testament people bodies go to the grave/sheol but their souls go hades/inner earth, where Adam and Eve sold their souls and children souls to the Serpent/Satan in the garden of Eden/inner earth as their temporary dwelling place until the judgment day before God and Christ.
Peter had a clear understanding about Hades and Resurrection of Christ, that King David knew about it also Read Acts 2:25-28 For David speaketh concerning him/Jesus, I foresaw the Lord/Christ always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One/Jesus to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Chuck, Jesus died that was REAL, His body went to the grave/sheol that was REAL; and His Soul went to Hades like all men that was REAL. After death on Calvary's Cross Jesus paid the ransom price in FULL for humanity before God the Father therefore, he was able go to HADES and set the Old Testament believers souls FREE from that horrible place. They were NOT belong with the unbelievers in Hades. They want to go home/heaven to be with God whom they serve and worship for all their lives while they were alive on earth. Hades is REAL, Heaven is REAL, and unbelievers from hades to be cast in the LAKE of Fire after the judgment day is also REAL.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 7, 2020 22:07:43 GMT -5
STOP LEANING ON YOUR BIBLE VERSES . Plus changing them to what you want . The bible is just paper . It to can be burnt 🥵 . Really dude ! WTF ? IMO
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Post by chuck on Oct 8, 2020 5:33:54 GMT -5
Who told you to read it literally? You havent even considered anything I said and are going straight to physical literal reading. Luke 16. Did you notice how the rich man in Hell still thought he was better than Lazarus and wanted Lazarus to serve him. Hell lets people stay exclusive Nathan. That is quite literal. Not sure how you derived a literal Hell from Luke 16 when everything points to a state not a physical place. The rich man wants Lazarus in heaven to serve him in hell? A great chasims but still carrying a conversation? Fire= Purifying felt and not thought. Richmans Gates, Exclusivism Richman, are you a richman Nathan?. Think twice before you answer. Remember what I said about if your(not you personally) in Hell here if there is a Hell "there" you'll also be in it. Hell was heaven for the richman here. Hell will let you stay selfish. 2x2ism is selfish, all about me and my literal eternal goal. Did you stop to think Jesus was a Hebrew man, how do you know he thinks it literally like you?. So many things we a ignorant of. I explained this parable many times in the past... After death most of Old Testament people bodies go to the grave/sheol but their souls go hades/inner earth, where Adam and Eve sold their souls and children souls to the Serpent/Satan in the garden of Eden/inner earth as their temporary dwelling place until the judgment day before God and Christ.
Peter had a clear understanding about Hades and Resurrection of Christ, that King David knew about it also Read Acts 2:25-28 For David speaketh concerning him/Jesus, I foresaw the Lord/Christ always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One/Jesus to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Chuck, Jesus died that was REAL, His body went to the grave/sheol that was REAL; and His Soul went to Hades like all men that was REAL. After death on Calvary's Cross Jesus paid the ransom price in FULL for humanity before God the Father therefore, he was able go to HADES and set the Old Testament believers souls FREE from that horrible place. They were NOT belong with the unbelievers in Hades. They want to go home/heaven to be with God whom they serve and worship for all their lives while they were alive on earth. Hades is REAL, Heaven is REAL, and unbelievers from hades to be cast in the LAKE of Fire after the judgment day is also REAL.
Right you've told us how you think it from the 21st century comforts as a richman with 2000 years worth of western religion mixed in. Now articulate how a Hebrew felt it?.
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Post by nathan on Oct 8, 2020 8:31:40 GMT -5
I explained this parable many times in the past... After death most of Old Testament people bodies go to the grave/sheol but their souls go hades/inner earth, where Adam and Eve sold their souls and children souls to the Serpent/Satan in the garden of Eden/inner earth as their temporary dwelling place until the judgment day before God and Christ.
Peter had a clear understanding about Hades and Resurrection of Christ, that King David knew about it also Read Acts 2:25-28 For David speaketh concerning him/Jesus, I foresaw the Lord/Christ always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One/Jesus to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Chuck, Jesus died that was REAL, His body went to the grave/sheol that was REAL; and His Soul went to Hades like all men that was REAL. After death on Calvary's Cross Jesus paid the ransom price in FULL for humanity before God the Father therefore, he was able go to HADES and set the Old Testament believers souls FREE from that horrible place. They were NOT belong with the unbelievers in Hades. They want to go home/heaven to be with God whom they serve and worship for all their lives while they were alive on earth. Hades is REAL, Heaven is REAL, and unbelievers from hades to be cast in the LAKE of Fire after the judgment day is also REAL. Right you've told us how you think it from the 21st century comforts as a richman with 2000 years worth of western religion mixed in. Now articulate how a Hebrew felt it?. Who cares what the Hebrews felt about things because most of them didn't believe or KNOW existence of Hades or Eternal fire. Jesus was a Hebrew and God, you need and must listen to His teachings on Hades, Hell and Heaven.
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