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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 13:14:48 GMT -5
I personally believe the Holy Spirit permeates the earth, every one at sometime has an unction from the HS (1 John 2:20-27). That's why we all inherently know right from wrong and will be judged without excuse. This doesn't mean that everyone is anointed with the HS or that it dwells with everyone, but only that it initiates a divine calling to all.
God's standards are His laws, e.g; "Thou shalt not murder". I believe it is present in everyone's consciousness, there's no confusion or misperceptions about those fundamentals, but that is not to say that some wouldn't misconstrue the simple truth to mean something other than what it does.
The disciples were constantly asking questions, no one is smart enough to know the mind of God. Jesus said he would send the Comforter to bring all things to remembrance, that's how we got the new testament. I doubt that our standards (minds) are a reflection of what we think God ought to be, but our thoughts are adjusted to understand who God actually is, His Living Word eliminated confusion. An example is when Jesus said, "Of a truth I say to you, that this poor widow has cast in more than they all" (Luke 21:3). Most modern preachers wouldn't illuminate a person throwing 2 mites into the collection plate.
God's mind does not mirror ours, its vice-versa. The bible is clear about subjects like sex, marriage, alcohol, etc.. And the bible is God's views, there's nothing delusional about it. The HS dwells with those who accept, believe, and embrace the Word of God. No one has all the answers (save one), its a constant learning and growing experience.
You may believe the Holy Spirit permeates the earth but it doesn’t. As I’ve already pointed out I’ve spent years looking for signs of the holy sprit here but have found nothing. It’s very easy to falsely claim that you are possessed by the Holy Spirit just as it’s very easy to quote scripture. But the facts are that there is no evidence whatsoever that any of the believers who post here are possessed by the Holy Spirit. I’d be delighted if you were to able to demonstrate differently but so far no one here has been able to do so. As regards inherently knowing right from wrong there is no evidence that we all do. That is merely another misplaced belief of many. Many days are spent here debating what is right and what is wrong and churches have even split over having different views. People have very different views on whether it is right or wrong to kill. People even carry out murder in the name of God believing inherently that they are doing the right thing. As regards God’s mind not mirroring ours but vice verse, I’d be interested to know of a single person who you think has a mind that mirrors God’s. I suspect no one. Anyone who has spent time here will know that there are a plethora of different interpretations of what God thinks on various subjects including even the very nature of God Himself. Even you concede (somewhat conveniently) that no one knows God’s mind on all things. I put it to you that no one truly knows God’s mind on anything. They only know what they attribute to him. Matt10
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 27, 2020 15:34:49 GMT -5
Lee, -are you sure you even know what a you are talking about?
What you are claiming has nothing to do with Leftists! It has to do with how you treat other people!
You seem to need to put people into derogatory boxes so you can ignore the problems they face, sometimes on a daily basis, -because you don't have their particular problem.
By your doing that, you can then denounce them with impunity and have no feeling of empathy for them so that you don't have to personally or otherwise do anything at all to mitigate their circumstances!
Yet, -at the same time you claim a belief in a "god, -yet you ignore the commands of that god.
(Jeremiah 22:3) 'Thus says the LORD, "Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor."
(Isaiah 1:17) Learn to do good; Seek justice, Reprove the ruthless, Defend the orphan, Plead for the widow.
GOD’S INJUNCTION TO CARE FOR THE LESS FORTUNATE,
Good night, Lee.
Sleep well.
I think you want to judge me. I am concerned for the poor. I'm an advocate of incentivizing work with fair pay, for recognizing our spiritual connection to the land, a point sorely missed by modern city builders, and the spreading of the good news generally. The good news cleanses the mind, revitalizes the weary, gives indispensible wisdom and hope, and offers balm for the vissitudes of life. I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 15:44:26 GMT -5
I think you want to judge me. I am concerned for the poor. I'm an advocate of incentivizing work with fair pay, for recognizing our spiritual connection to the land, a point sorely missed by modern city builders, and the spreading of the good news generally. The good news cleanses the mind, revitalizes the weary, gives indispensible wisdom and hope, and offers balm for the vissitudes of life. I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
if they had meant welfare like you mean it they would have setup such but they didn't what welfare probably meant was infrastructure of the country so it would operate smoothly...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 20:18:13 GMT -5
You are being judged regardless of what you do, so being yourself makes happiness easier to obtain. Live life on your terms, not someone else's. Being yourself is important because you will not be happy otherwise.
Religion can be a double-edged sword. Negative religious beliefs, that God is punishing or abandoning you have been linked with harmful outcomes, including higher rates of depression and lower quality of life. Never ever allow anybody tell you that you are not good enough. Every person is individual and has the right to live according to their conscience. It is never one size fits all, don't every let another person make you believe that. Have the strength of mind to work it out for yourself and live accordingly.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 27, 2020 22:26:16 GMT -5
I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
if they had meant welfare like you mean it they would have setup such but they didn't what welfare probably meant was infrastructure of the country so it would operate smoothly... WALLY! -You twist everything that you can to keep from helping people! -your own fellow/men/women/children!"infrastructure!?" They were talking about PEOPLE! people! "ourselves and our posterity" "posterity": all future generations of PEOPLE!Infrastructure is the term for the basic physical systems of a business or nation—transportation, communication, sewage, water, and electric systems are all examples of infrastructure.
But if you would rather compare yourself to being a part of the infrastructure, -you certainly have a right to do so, -even the sewer if you want to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 22:45:36 GMT -5
if they had meant welfare like you mean it they would have setup such but they didn't what welfare probably meant was infrastructure of the country so it would operate smoothly... WALLY! -You twist everything that you can to keep from helping people! -your own fellow/men/women/children!"infrastructure!?" They were talking about PEOPLE! people! "ourselves and our posterity" "posterity": all future generations of PEOPLE!Infrastructure is the term for the basic physical systems of a business or nation—transportation, communication, sewage, water, and electric systems are all examples of infrastructure.
But if you would rather compare yourself to being a part of the infrastructure, -you certainly have a right to do so, -even the sewer if you want to.the facts remain they were not talking about welfare as you know it otherwise they would have set it up from the beginning like that...the facts remain welfare like settings were better served by charity from religious organizations not the gov't
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 27, 2020 23:29:10 GMT -5
WALLY! -You twist everything that you can to keep from helping people! -your own fellow/men/women/children!"infrastructure!?" They were talking about PEOPLE! people! "ourselves and our posterity" "posterity": all future generations of PEOPLE!Infrastructure is the term for the basic physical systems of a business or nation—transportation, communication, sewage, water, and electric systems are all examples of infrastructure.
But if you would rather compare yourself to being a part of the infrastructure, -you certainly have a right to do so, -even the sewer if you want to. the facts remain they were not talking about welfare as you know it otherwise they would have set it up from the beginning like that.. .the facts remain welfare like settings were better served by charity from religious organizations not the gov't First: Do you think that they would have set it up EVERY THING from the beginning?
All of the laws according to what we have in our modern day society?
Do you think they were some kind of seers that could see all of what would happen in the future of the country?
Next: Do you even know the definition of the term "welfare?" welfare: the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need. "the protection of rights to education, housing, and welfare"
NORTH AMERICAN
financial support given to people in need.
social security · benefit · state benefit · benefit payment · public assistance · allowance · pension · credit · support · sick pay · sickness benefit . unemployment benefit/pay
Last:
Do you believe that you, wally, -shouldn't have any of these benefits for yourself when you no longer have an income?
Do you think that your mother should not be able to have these because SHE does not have any other income?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 23:43:55 GMT -5
the facts remain they were not talking about welfare as you know it otherwise they would have set it up from the beginning like that.. .the facts remain welfare like settings were better served by charity from religious organizations not the gov't First: Do you think that they would have set it up EVERY THING from the beginning?
All of the laws according to what we have in our modern day society?
Do you think they were some kind of seers that could see all of what would happen in the future of the country?
Next: Do you even know the definition of the term "welfare?" welfare: the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need. "the protection of rights to education, housing, and welfare"
NORTH AMERICAN
financial support given to people in need.
social security · benefit · state benefit · benefit payment · public assistance · allowance · pension · credit · support · sick pay · sickness benefit . unemployment benefit/pay
Last:
Do you believe that you, wally, -shouldn't have any of these benefits for yourself when you no longer have an income?
Do you think that your mother should not be able to have these because SHE does not have any other income?
social security you pay into so should be able to draw on it later in life...that is not really welfare in your sense of the word...pensions and unemployment should not be counted as welfare either those are things earned/contractual or paid into...
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 27, 2020 23:56:07 GMT -5
First: Do you think that they would have set it up EVERY THING from the beginning?
All of the laws according to what we have in our modern day society?
Do you think they were some kind of seers that could see all of what would happen in the future of the country?
Next: Do you even know the definition of the term "welfare?" welfare: the health, happiness, and fortunes of a person or group.
statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need. "the protection of rights to education, housing, and welfare"
NORTH AMERICAN
financial support given to people in need.
social security · benefit · state benefit · benefit payment · public assistance · allowance · pension · credit · support · sick pay · sickness benefit . unemployment benefit/pay
Last:
Do you believe that you, wally, -shouldn't have any of these benefits for yourself when you no longer have an income?
Do you think that your mother should not be able to have these because SHE does not have any other income?
social security you pay into so should be able to draw on it later in life...that is not really welfare in your sense of the word...pensions and unemployment should not be counted as welfare either those are things earned/contractual or paid into... OK, I finally get it, Wally.
Only the able-bodied people who can work & take care of themselves should be allowed to survive.
Right?
According to you, my son should have been let starve to death.
Good night .
Sleep well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 0:04:13 GMT -5
social security you pay into so should be able to draw on it later in life...that is not really welfare in your sense of the word...pensions and unemployment should not be counted as welfare either those are things earned/contractual or paid into... OK, I finally get it, Wally.
Only the able-bodied people who can work & take care of themselves should be allowed to survive.
Right?
According to you, my son should have been let starve to death.
Good night .
Sleep well. nope, that is where family responsibility and christian charity kick in and they were working fine until the 60's...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 0:06:07 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2020 0:16:52 GMT -5
OK, I finally get it, Wally.
Only the able-bodied people who can work & take care of themselves should be allowed to survive.
Right?
According to you, my son should have been let starve to death.
Good night .
Sleep well. nope, that is where family responsibility and christian charity kick in and they were working fine until the 60's... So Christian nations should practice Christian charity -- right?
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2020 0:27:07 GMT -5
Thanks, Redback. I love you too.
After listening to that song, I feel much better.
Thank you.
Goodnight!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 0:42:31 GMT -5
nope, that is where family responsibility and christian charity kick in and they were working fine until the 60's... So Christian nations should practice Christian charity -- right? taxation is not a christian enterprise you don't get charity at the barrel end of a firearm which is what would happen if you don't pay your taxes. first its letters and phone calls and garnishments and then they come for you with firearms....one of the friends i know is an IRS agent and he carries a firearm to go after those who don't pay.
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Post by learning on Sept 28, 2020 8:02:15 GMT -5
I note where some have written here that God has provided a path of joy and hope.
To play the devil's advocate ... Do we think highly of a parent that slaps a child and then offers comfort? How about someone who points out someone else's personality flaw and then says "it's OK I like you anyway"? Or anyone who manufactures a problem and then offers a solution? I think we all could agree such a person is problematic ... so why do we hold God to a different standard in this regard?
And a second point, yes, this belief system does offer the potential for joy and hope. HOWEVER, for those who lose their faith (or for those with weak faith), they are left to cope alone with the repercussions of being previously convinced that there was something wrong with them that needed 'fixing'. This is a challenge to mental health that some still in the faith would attribute to "struggling against God" or something like that, when in fact it could be a mental heath crisis of someone trying to un-wind a false narrative about their own intrinsic value.
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2020 9:08:24 GMT -5
I think you want to judge me. I am concerned for the poor. I'm an advocate of incentivizing work with fair pay, for recognizing our spiritual connection to the land, a point sorely missed by modern city builders, and the spreading of the good news generally. The good news cleanses the mind, revitalizes the weary, gives indispensible wisdom and hope, and offers balm for the vissitudes of life. I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
In a perfect world, one I hope to live in or my posterity, people would be so caring themselves for the ill and the unfortunate that the mediation of government wouldn’t be necessary. Our current reliance upon government under a limited socialist approach comes with horrifying side effects: 1) Enabling people to loot the system, therein degrading themselves and generating political cancers 2) Enabling persons (us) who are in the position to help others to be lazy or detached.
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2020 9:23:57 GMT -5
I note where some have written here that God has provided a path of joy and hope. To play the devil's advocate ... Do we think highly of a parent that slaps a child and then offers comfort? How about someone who points out someone else's personality flaw and then says "it's OK I like you anyway"? Or anyone who manufactures a problem and then offers a solution? I think we all could agree such a person is problematic ... so why do we hold God to a different standard in this regard? And a second point, yes, this belief system does offer the potential for joy and hope. HOWEVER, for those who lose their faith (or for those with weak faith), they are left to cope alone with the repercussions of being previously convinced that there was something wrong with them that needed 'fixing'. This is a challenge to mental health that some still in the faith would attribute to "struggling against God" or something like that, when in fact it could be a mental heath crisis of someone trying to un-wind a false narrative about their own intrinsic value. To your first point, I believe the human being has a track record of sinning unwittingly at times but willfully on others. Where he sins intentionally one can’t blame God for that. To the other scenario where sin and intention aren’t so closely related, I think it’s helpful to be willing to change and grow. Sometimes we need forgiveness for a sense of culpability in some matter. Sometimes we need forgiveness in the sense of letting go of things, forgiving ourselves or our situations when there’s no more fruit or point to laboring some controversy or hardship. I identify as a Christian because forgiveness is such a big part of growth. There are weak people who chronically struggle internally. I have my own history of that. Getting out of your head can renew your mind. That’s why I like to write. Some people seek therapy in medicine. I got an interesting text recently called “Hacking the Chemicals” that listed differently behaviors that arouse certain chemicals and feelings. Dopamine (The reward chemical ), Endorphins (pain relief), Serotonin (mood regulation), Oxytocin (The love hormone) The common problem identified in the occasions you listed is a view that to be born human is to be born bad. I think that is a terribly theologically fraudulent view that quarters in some 2x2 circles and Christians more generally. I think the right view is that we are born with our own deck of cards. Some cards represent being a victim of sin. Some represent having a tendency to sin. Still others represent our abilities and inabilities, privileges or lack of them. But it’s what we do with our lives as we respond to Grace that lasts for all eternity. And that brings me full circle to Christ
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2020 17:10:45 GMT -5
I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
In a perfect world, one I hope to live in or my posterity, people would be so caring themselves for the ill and the unfortunate that the mediation of government wouldn’t be necessary. Our current reliance upon government under a limited socialist approach comes with horrifying side effects: 1) Enabling people to loot the system, therein degrading themselves and generating political cancers 2) Enabling persons (us) who are in the position to help others to be lazy or detached. But we don't have a perfect world!
That is what you, -as well as many others, -can't or won't accept!
It is exactly why people create a fantasy story of a perfect world in the hereafter!
That helps you and some other people make your two above excuses to keep you from getting your own asses in gear and try to do something about helping people NOW!
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Post by Lee on Sept 28, 2020 17:31:36 GMT -5
Why do you think I don’t help people now? Why must my charity be construed as vanity or an evil, according to your politics and I guess, your worldview?
I thought you were pro progress, which means the recognition of inferior and superior states of being, or sin, versus a path to excellence, healing, a coming into our own. Heaven.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 28, 2020 17:35:22 GMT -5
Why do you think I don’t help people now? Why must my charity be construed as vanity or an evil, according to your politics and I guess, your worldview? (I thought you were pro progress, which means the recognition of inferior and superior states of being, or sin, versus a path to excellence, healing, a coming into our own. Heaven.) Who pumped this spinning top up today?
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Post by Gene on Sept 28, 2020 19:35:18 GMT -5
I cannot "judge" you. But what I also cannot do is to understand why you keep knocking people for problems they have no control over!
You don't seem to be able to understand why people are not always responsible for the positions that they are in. You seem to not want to look at & acknowledge the underlying reasons that some people are in THOSE positions.
Instead, you tend to blame them, (oh yes you do!) and label any governmental programs that attempt to remedy their position as "socialism & communism!"
What do think the role of the "government" is suppose to be?
The Preamble to the United States Constitution
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
If the "government" doesn't "promote the general welfare," "establish justice" for of ALL of the people, then we won't HAVE "domestic tranquility" in our country!
That is what is happening right now!
Every governmental social assistance program that has been created in the past from pensions for older people, for those with disabilities; -Medicare, help for Veterans; ALL have been labeled as "SOCIALSIM!"
All it indicates to me is they simply do not care what happens to others as long as they are happy & comfortable. And it doesn't matter what they may try to claim about their ideas of any supposed "good news!"
To me it only indicates they would rather pass the buck to some non-existing being which will relieve themselves of doing anything.
In a perfect world, one I hope to live in or my posterity, people would be so caring themselves for the ill and the unfortunate that the mediation of government wouldn’t be necessary. Our current reliance upon government under a limited socialist approach comes with horrifying side effects: 1) Enabling people to loot the system, therein degrading themselves and generating political cancers 2) Enabling persons (us) who are in the position to help others to be lazy or detached. James Madison: “If Men were angels, no government would be necessary."
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 28, 2020 23:02:49 GMT -5
Why do you think I don’t help people now? Why must my charity be construed as vanity or an evil, according to your politics and I guess, your worldview? (I thought you were pro progress, which means the recognition of inferior and superior states of being, or sin, versus a path to excellence, healing, a coming into our own. Heaven.) Lee, Where did I say that anything about whether you personally "help people" or not? Maybe you do, -maybe you don't.
Where did I say anything at all about your "charity as being construed as vanity or an evil?" (presuming you have any) Why do you feel some need to ask me questions about something that I never said?
It is our duty to help others, -however since most of us aren't in any condition to personally do a whole lot we can at least advocate for policies that will help and then we get off our collective asses & work towards seeing that such policies put into place to do what we personally may not be able to do alone!
For those of us who believe in the humanist approach, -all human beings are born with moral value and we all have a responsibility to help one another live better lives.
Your remarks about human beings is derogatory when you make such comments like "inferior and superior states of being, or sin!"
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2020 5:13:49 GMT -5
It's a point of fact that sin ravages the vitality of healthy human beings.
Not all human problems are material. In fact, the origin of the critical problems our species face are spiritual. That's why I'm not content to suffer the side effects of modern efforts to combat poverty. These efforts have become a kind of racket that have introduced new forms of slavery.
Lately an idea was popularized in conjunction with CRT theory that Americans are systemically racist. It was to say if anyone happened to prosper they couldn't help themselves from forming predudices along racial lines. It was to say all human beings were born racist and all you had to do was throw a little competition and prosperity into the mix to draw it out.
Well talk about a damming doctrine of mankind! It's no different than what's being said in the OP of this thread about the 2x2, that ‘they’ are constantly telling us we were born hopeless and worthless in our sins.
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2020 5:16:45 GMT -5
Why do you think I don’t help people now? Why must my charity be construed as vanity or an evil, according to your politics and I guess, your worldview? (I thought you were pro progress, which means the recognition of inferior and superior states of being, or sin, versus a path to excellence, healing, a coming into our own. Heaven.) Who pumped this spinning top up today? I'd like it if cynical, bitter men would refrain from becoming teachers. Telling little Americans they were born to an evil country and insinuating they are most likely to become more of that same evil is in essence, the same message the 2x2s and some Christians have been given and we are decrying.
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2020 5:26:23 GMT -5
Perspective is the thing to be sought after here. For one, given that mankind is morally evolving (or recovering what was lost, as the Bible lays out as a narrative) we’re not going to be the same people tomorrow as we were yesterday because the standards are upgrading (while some are regressing). For example black slavery was tolerated when this country began but no longer! Slavery still exists in other forms but the dialogue, the moral question moves forward.
The more important aspect of perspective involves the holiness of God. Our righteousness is said to be filthy rags. And compared to God, it is!
Any religion worth it's salt should center upon some notion of perfection. As a pedagogic, how else would we expect to improve?
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Post by Gene on Sept 29, 2020 10:42:04 GMT -5
It's a point of fact that sin ravages the vitality of healthy human beings. Not all human problems are material. In fact, the origin of the critical problems our species face are spiritual. That's why I'm not content to suffer the side effects of modern efforts to combat poverty. These efforts have become a kind of racket that have introduced new forms of slavery. Lately an idea was popularized in conjunction with CRT theory that Americans are systemically racist. It was to say if anyone happened to prosper they couldn't help themselves from forming predudices along racial lines. It was to say all human beings were born racist and all you had to do was throw a little competition and prosperity into the mix to draw it out. Well talk about a damming doctrine of mankind! It's no different than what's being said in the OP of this thread about the 2x2, that ‘they’ are constantly telling us we were born hopeless and worthless in our sins. I don't agree with a blanket statement as "point of fact" that "sin ravages the vitality of healthy human beings."
For example:
Whether one considers smoking to be a sin or not, I agree that that "sin" ravages the vitality of the previously healthy human being, as the negative impact on health is well-documented.
On the other hand, one person may consider failing to attend church services a sin, while another does not consider it to be a sin. In the case of the one who DOES consider it to be a sin, failing to attend church services could negatively impact that person's vitality through guilt, depression, etc.
But in the case of one who does NOT consider it to be a sin, failing to attend church services does NOT ravage that person's vitality.
Therefore, I would posit that sin ravages the vitality of healthy human beings only under two circumstances:
1.) If the "sin" has inherent health consequences, physical or mental, whether one considers the thought or action to be sin or not, and 2.) If a person considers his/her own thought or action to be "sin."
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Post by Lee on Sept 29, 2020 11:22:24 GMT -5
I think you’re saying the consequences of sin arise inwardly and outwardly. In the case where one has suffered on the basis of believing a lie, the sin would be believing the lie.
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Post by Gene on Sept 29, 2020 13:35:27 GMT -5
I think you’re saying the consequences of sin arise inwardly and outwardly. In the case where one has suffered on the basis of believing a lie, the sin would be believing the lie. No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that there are consequences to sin only if one believes the thought or action is a sin*.
*Exception: Actions and thoughts that have inherent consequences that are generally considered negative, whether one calls them "sins" or not.
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