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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 9:26:04 GMT -5
If you don't carry the weapon of a soldier, you are not fulfilling scripture. Today, that would either be an AK47 or M4 rifle. Very few churches abide by the Word of God on this matter. What is the weapon of a Christian? Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. He told me to ask you. He said you know but you won't let it out.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 9:31:23 GMT -5
why limit it to just matthew? are the other gospels not enough? Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospek and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of hoe they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition. Luke Ch 22:36 Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...:
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 9:32:03 GMT -5
Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospek and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of hoe they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition. Luke Ch 22:36 Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...:
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 14, 2020 9:53:12 GMT -5
It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Have never heard any reference to matt 10 as being the guideline for the fellowship. Sounds like you may not have read John Long's Journal telling about the Early Days? www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_johnlong/1898, June 19–30: Kilkee Mission. By this time, Irvine had been with the Faith Mission for about three years. John Long had also been a Methodist Colporteur for three years. Irvine held a mission in Kilkee June 19–30, 1898 (Bright Words, Aug. 15, 1898, TTT). Per Long, "While in Kilkee we had a Bible reading on Matthew 10." Their attention was drawn to Matthew 10:5–10: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat." The Secret Sect quotes William Irvine asking John Long, "When did God change this? Does He mean it to be the same today?" with Long replying, "I suppose it has never changed." No documentation has surfaced confirming this portentous exchange. A 2004 review of two of John Long's original Journals, with particular attention given to the Matthew 10 study, did not contain the above comments, and The Secret Sect did not include a reference to its source (Parker 1982, 2). The Bible study of Matthew 10 was the catalyst that set John Long to thinking about going on Faith Lines, which he defined as, "Faith Lines is a preacher going forth without any fixed or stated salary, neither any public collections at meetings, but just trusting in God to put it into the hearts of God's people to give to the support of them who ministered in spiritual things. If more came in than necessary, learning to abound; if less, learning to suffer lack" (Jan. 1899, TTT). As their name indicates, the Faith Mission was based on the Faith Lines concept. As a Pilgrim with the Faith Mission, Irvine had been, more or less, preaching on Faith Lines since 1895. This analysis of Matthew 10 caused John Long to think more deeply about fully relying on God for his needs. It is unclear whether Irvine had already come to this conclusion and used the study to pass on this interpretation to Long, or if this might also have been the point when Irvine became committed to the idea of stricter observance of preaching on Faith Lines. It is equally possible that Irvine had already conceived of and promoted the idea to others prior to the study with Long. Long’s account, however, is the earliest extant documentation of this new doctrine. Perhaps Irvine did not consider the method used by Faith Mission Pilgrims to be fully working on Faith Lines, since they provided their missioners with a meager allowance. He may have decided to go fully on Faith Lines, independent of Faith Mission, and see how that worked out. In January 1899, he ceased sending Faith Mission his monthly reports. He revealed in letters that he was irritated by some of Faith Mission's rules. Eventually, he separated from or was put out of the Faith Mission (details in later chapters.) How differently things would have turned out had John Long replied, "Jesus changed it in Luke 22:35–36: 'When I sent you without purse, and script, scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his script scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." It would seem Irvine and the early Workers did not realize that Jesus' instructions to the twelve and seventy in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 were intended for two specific short missions (about six weeks) to the Jews only, after which the disciples returned to and remained with Jesus. After Jesus' death, the method changed regarding how Jesus' message was to be spread. Jesus explained, "As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost" (John 20:21-22 KJV). In other words, from that time forward, the Holy Spirit would supply guidance and directions that superseded Jesus' earlier Matthew 10 instructions. 1899, October: Bicycle Mission Trip to Scotland. In the autumn of 1899, Irvine led a group of eight or nine young men on an experimental bicycle preaching tour of Scotland, putting into practice the Matthew 10 instructions as far as they could. Although they were not evangelizing under the auspices of the Faith Mission, the young men accepted the hospitality of Faith Mission converts. Jubilantly, they returned, having gained some converts; their experimental tour was a success. Irvine Weir was one of the young men. Irvine Weir is quoted in The Secret Sect, "Then in October 1899, William Irvine, still in the Faith Mission, but not satisfied, got seven men and with himself we toured Scotland using the Faith Mission converts to entertain us." Referring to the photograph taken of the young men on their bicycles, Weir said that this "in my mind was the start of the Work of William Irvine outside the Faith Mission" (Parker 1982, 37, Fn. 23). ________________________________________ Years later, in retrospect, when recalling the Matthew 10 Bible study, John Long expressed: "However, as a guide to preachers, Matthew 10 should only be taken in conjunction with the other Scriptures and Acts of the Apostles after Pentecost. This is a very important point lest young preachers should attempt that which our Lord never meant and run into catastrophe; as in Matthew 10, that tour was only for a few days, to meet a need and prepare the way for His visit to them, vs. 10–25. In Matthew 10 they were not to go to the Gentiles, nor to the Samaritans; after Pentecost they were to be 'Witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in Judea and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth,' Acts 1:8. In Matthew 10 they were to take neither gold, silver, or brass, in their purses nor any luggage; after Pentecost they used money, and carried necessary luggage (Acts 4:34–35; 21:15; 28:30–31; 1 Corinthians 9:14)." (July 1898, TTT) A critic countermanded, "The conditions of those commands … given during the earlier part of His ministry, were cancelled in the 22nd chapter of Luke, after the Lord's Supper, when new conditions had arisen … The 10th of Matthew, on which the Tramps [Irvine's Workers] affect to base their whole code of ethics, has now no binding force whatever, as it was repealed by the same authority which had created it, in addition to the fact, that it was addressed to the 'twelve' alone. Thus, the code and ideas which the Tramps built on a wrong foundation crumble to the dust (Impartial Reporter Oct. 7, 14, 1909). Early Worker Irvine Weir revealed to Doug Parker, "William Irvine's ideas of preaching and Tramp preaching were founded entirely on his idea of the tenth Matthew … William believed that what was good for the apostles was also good for the preachers of that day. He forgot that this message was given to the apostles to give to the Jewish nation only" (Parker 1982, 2, 9, Fn. 5). Alfred Magowan asked George Walker, "Why should they think that God is glorified by imitating prophets and apostles, when he wants every man to be himself, and to live from within? The prophets of the Old Testament did not imitate the patriarchs that were before them, nor did the apostles of the New Testament imitate the prophets of the old" (Feb. 21, 1954, TTT). Faith Lines Concept. The Two by Two belief system was centered on the Faith Lines concept in Matthew 10, the bedrock of their movement and the foundation of the 2x2 Workers' ministry. It is one of the key fundamental principles that sets the 2x2 Ministry apart from most other Christian ministries. As Jack Carroll put it, "If we knew of any of us ever lifting a collection or asking for money, we would immediately see to it that he would be excluded from our Fellowship as a preacher of the gospel" (1934, TTT). Faith Lines in reference to an unsalaried ministry did not originate with the Two by Two Workers; many across the centuries have and continue to practice this. Charles Parham, James McKeown, and others in what became the Pentecostal movement had experimented with faith lines years before Irvine and Long. China Inland Mission missioners (and groups that modelled themselves after them) also went about on faith lines with no salary or support. Roman Catholic mendicant preaching orders avoided owning property, did not work at a trade, and embraced a poor, often itinerant lifestyle, depending for their survival on the goodwill of the people to whom they preached. 1909: Go-Preacher's Hymn Book. The first 2x2 hymnal was printed in 1909, containing 130 hymns (words only); it contained no date, publisher, or authors' names. However, Eddie Cooney's initials ("E.C.") were shown as the author for twelve hymns: Nos. 14, 16, 57, 91, 92, 95, 98, 99, 100, 110, 115, and 130. Four of Cooney's hymns mention Matthew 10, illustrating the importance the new Sect gave to literally following Jesus' instructions in that passage:No. 91": Whilst thousands say Lord, Lord, through men who preach, but won't live Matthew Ten." No. 95: "For well we ken, through Matthew Ten, the way that pleases God." No. 99: "Tramp about and preach. Saints will give you bread. This you'll find full described in Matthew Ten." No. 100: "poor men who left their homes and then launched out to live like Jesus as told in Matthew Ten."
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 11:19:37 GMT -5
Have never heard any reference to matt 10 as being the guideline for the fellowship. Sounds like you may not have read John Long's Journal telling about the Early Days? www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_johnlong/1898, June 19–30: Kilkee Mission. By this time, Irvine had been with the Faith Mission for about three years. John Long had also been a Methodist Colporteur for three years. Irvine held a mission in Kilkee June 19–30, 1898 (Bright Words, Aug. 15, 1898, TTT). Per Long, "While in Kilkee we had a Bible reading on Matthew 10." Their attention was drawn to Matthew 10:5–10: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat." The Secret Sect quotes William Irvine asking John Long, "When did God change this? Does He mean it to be the same today?" with Long replying, "I suppose it has never changed." No documentation has surfaced confirming this portentous exchange. A 2004 review of two of John Long's original Journals, with particular attention given to the Matthew 10 study, did not contain the above comments, and The Secret Sect did not include a reference to its source (Parker 1982, 2). The Bible study of Matthew 10 was the catalyst that set John Long to thinking about going on Faith Lines, which he defined as, "Faith Lines is a preacher going forth without any fixed or stated salary, neither any public collections at meetings, but just trusting in God to put it into the hearts of God's people to give to the support of them who ministered in spiritual things. If more came in than necessary, learning to abound; if less, learning to suffer lack" (Jan. 1899, TTT). As their name indicates, the Faith Mission was based on the Faith Lines concept. As a Pilgrim with the Faith Mission, Irvine had been, more or less, preaching on Faith Lines since 1895. This analysis of Matthew 10 caused John Long to think more deeply about fully relying on God for his needs. It is unclear whether Irvine had already come to this conclusion and used the study to pass on this interpretation to Long, or if this might also have been the point when Irvine became committed to the idea of stricter observance of preaching on Faith Lines. It is equally possible that Irvine had already conceived of and promoted the idea to others prior to the study with Long. Long’s account, however, is the earliest extant documentation of this new doctrine. Perhaps Irvine did not consider the method used by Faith Mission Pilgrims to be fully working on Faith Lines, since they provided their missioners with a meager allowance. He may have decided to go fully on Faith Lines, independent of Faith Mission, and see how that worked out. In January 1899, he ceased sending Faith Mission his monthly reports. He revealed in letters that he was irritated by some of Faith Mission's rules. Eventually, he separated from or was put out of the Faith Mission (details in later chapters.) How differently things would have turned out had John Long replied, "Jesus changed it in Luke 22:35–36: 'When I sent you without purse, and script, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his script: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." It would seem Irvine and the early Workers did not realize that Jesus' instructions to the twelve and seventy in Matthew 10 and Luke 10 were intended for two specific short missions (about six weeks) to the Jews only, after which the disciples returned to and remained with Jesus. After Jesus' death, the method changed regarding how Jesus' message was to be spread. Jesus explained, "As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost" (John 20:21-22 KJV). In other words, from that time forward, the Holy Spirit would supply guidance and directions that superseded Jesus' earlier Matthew 10 instructions. 1899, October: Bicycle Mission Trip to Scotland. In the autumn of 1899, Irvine led a group of eight or nine young men on an experimental bicycle preaching tour of Scotland, putting into practice the Matthew 10 instructions as far as they could. Although they were not evangelizing under the auspices of the Faith Mission, the young men accepted the hospitality of Faith Mission converts. Jubilantly, they returned, having gained some converts; their experimental tour was a success. Irvine Weir was one of the young men. Irvine Weir is quoted in The Secret Sect, "Then in October 1899, William Irvine, still in the Faith Mission, but not satisfied, got seven men and with himself we toured Scotland using the Faith Mission converts to entertain us." Referring to the photograph taken of the young men on their bicycles, Weir said that this "in my mind was the start of the Work of William Irvine outside the Faith Mission" (Parker 1982, 37, Fn. 23). ________________________________________ Years later, in retrospect, when recalling the Matthew 10 Bible study, John Long expressed: "However, as a guide to preachers, Matthew 10 should only be taken in conjunction with the other Scriptures and Acts of the Apostles after Pentecost. This is a very important point lest young preachers should attempt that which our Lord never meant and run into catastrophe; as in Matthew 10, that tour was only for a few days, to meet a need and prepare the way for His visit to them, vs. 10–25. In Matthew 10 they were not to go to the Gentiles, nor to the Samaritans; after Pentecost they were to be 'Witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in Judea and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost parts of the earth,' Acts 1:8. In Matthew 10 they were to take neither gold, silver, or brass, in their purses nor any luggage; after Pentecost they used money, and carried necessary luggage (Acts 4:34–35; 21:15; 28:30–31; 1 Corinthians 9:14)." (July 1898, TTT) A critic countermanded, "The conditions of those commands … given during the earlier part of His ministry, were cancelled in the 22nd chapter of Luke, after the Lord's Supper, when new conditions had arisen … The 10th of Matthew, on which the Tramps [Irvine's Workers] affect to base their whole code of ethics, has now no binding force whatever, as it was repealed by the same authority which had created it, in addition to the fact, that it was addressed to the 'twelve' alone. Thus, the code and ideas which the Tramps built on a wrong foundation crumble to the dust (Impartial Reporter Oct. 7, 14, 1909). Early Worker Irvine Weir revealed to Doug Parker, "William Irvine's ideas of preaching and Tramp preaching were founded entirely on his idea of the tenth Matthew … William believed that what was good for the apostles was also good for the preachers of that day. He forgot that this message was given to the apostles to give to the Jewish nation only" (Parker 1982, 2, 9, Fn. 5). Alfred Magowan asked George Walker, "Why should they think that God is glorified by imitating prophets and apostles, when he wants every man to be himself, and to live from within? The prophets of the Old Testament did not imitate the patriarchs that were before them, nor did the apostles of the New Testament imitate the prophets of the old" (Feb. 21, 1954, TTT). Faith Lines Concept. The Two by Two belief system was centered on the Faith Lines concept in Matthew 10, the bedrock of their movement and the foundation of the 2x2 Workers' ministry. It is one of the key fundamental principles that sets the 2x2 Ministry apart from most other Christian ministries. As Jack Carroll put it, "If we knew of any of us ever lifting a collection or asking for money, we would immediately see to it that he would be excluded from our Fellowship as a preacher of the gospel" (1934, TTT). Faith Lines in reference to an unsalaried ministry did not originate with the Two by Two Workers; many across the centuries have and continue to practice this. Charles Parham, James McKeown, and others in what became the Pentecostal movement had experimented with faith lines years before Irvine and Long. China Inland Mission missioners (and groups that modelled themselves after them) also went about on faith lines with no salary or support. Roman Catholic mendicant preaching orders avoided owning property, did not work at a trade, and embraced a poor, often itinerant lifestyle, depending for their survival on the goodwill of the people to whom they preached. 1909: Go-Preacher's Hymn Book. The first 2x2 hymnal was printed in 1909, containing 130 hymns (words only); it contained no date, publisher, or authors' names. However, Eddie Cooney's initials ("E.C.") were shown as the author for twelve hymns: Nos. 14, 16, 57, 91, 92, 95, 98, 99, 100, 110, 115, and 130. Four of Cooney's hymns mention Matthew 10, illustrating the importance the new Sect gave to literally following Jesus' instructions in that passage:No. 91": Whilst thousands say Lord, Lord, through men who preach, but won't live Matthew Ten." No. 95: "For well we ken, through Matthew Ten, the way that pleases God." No. 99: "Tramp about and preach. Saints will give you bread. This you'll find full described in Matthew Ten." No. 100: "poor men who left their homes and then launched out to live like Jesus as told in Matthew Ten."I just wanted to point out the word "scrip" was used; not script - you inadvertantly used the word "script" in your quotation here. In a few places. Perhaps a Freudian slip - Easy mistake to make, and I remember vividly the workers using the word "script" in their sermons; but, they used "script" all the time, so obviously they thought the original wording was "script".
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 14, 2020 11:46:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the correction, jetmech!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 12:01:43 GMT -5
ForeverFree. Would be no surprise as the reason there are over 30,000 Christian sects is due to schisms within these sects and groups breaking off and forming their own brand. A brand that fits their preferred biblical interpretation. Consider the Roman Catholic schism that formed the Church of England. The wife-murdering Henry VIII broke with the RC's because he wanted a divorce. It would be convenient for some to keep the focus on the 2x2 history. Its a diversion from the historical horrors inflicted by the Roman Catholic and Church of England. They're already divided as it is on just about everything. The only way I see it splitting is if a lot of people join. When you're the true way, too many people is a terrible predicament. Jostling for Salvation slots... Nobody wants a crowded heaven. A crowded hell though - critical!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 12:20:24 GMT -5
why limit it to just matthew? are the other gospels not enough? Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospel and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of how they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition. speaking of not using your head you use either the whole bible or none of it to compile information. what you did was like asking someone to relate the birth of jesus in matthew without using matt 1.....
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Post by ForeverFree on Aug 14, 2020 12:38:40 GMT -5
Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves Scrip.—The “scrip” or wallet was a small basket carried on the back, or by a strap hanging from one shoulder, containing the food of the traveller. Such a basket was looked on as the necessary equipment even of the poorest traveller, yet the apostles were to go without it. Neither shoes, nor yet staves.—No second staff in case the first should break, no second pair of shoes in which to rest the worn and weary feet. The “sandals” were the shoes of the peasant class. biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/10-10.htm
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 14:02:24 GMT -5
Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
In 1928 Edward Cooney believed in Matthew 10 instructions and thought it was for his days! and he could heal. He called the overseer, the workers, and the friends to comeg together to see him heal one of the friends just like the apostles did 2000 years ago. Edward C. tried to heal her sickness and he failed and told her one of the reasons, she didn't get healed because her lack of Faith in God. The overseers and workers began to disassociate with Edward C. soon after that and excommunicated him from the ministry and fellowship.
Show me one reference from anywhere in Matthew's gospel, not just Matthew 10, where the disciples are specifically instructed to go out on a two and two ministry? *** I am at work right now when I get home I will post verses in the gospels, the book of Acts and epistles where Jesus sent the apostles/preachers two starting in the gospel and they continued doing it in the book of Acts and the epistles. In Matthew 10 Jesus sent the 12 in two and two= 6 pairs and Later on in Luke 10 He sent out 70 more apostles two and two= 35 pairs. In Acts 3:1-2 we read Peter and John went to the temple court yard to preach the gospel. We read in Acts chapter 13 The Holy Spirit put Barnabas and Paul as Co-workers; later on Paul took Timothy in the ministry and Barnabas took John Mark back in the ministry.
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 14:08:34 GMT -5
Show me one reference from anywhere in Matthew's gospel, not just Matthew 10, where the disciples are specifically instructed to go out on a two and two ministry? *** I am at work right now when I get home I will post verses in the gospels, the book of Acts and epistles where Jesus sent the apostles/preachers two starting in the gospel and they continued doing it in the book of Acts and the epistles. In Matthew 10 Jesus sent the 12 in two and two= 6 pairs and Later on in Luke 10 He sent out 70 more apostles two and two= 35 pairs. In Acts 3:1-2 we read Peter and John went to the temple court yard to preach the gospel. We read in Acts chapter 13 The Holy Spirit put Barnabas and Paul as Co-workers; later on Paul took Timothy in the ministry and Barnabas took John Mark back in the ministry. The 12 and 70 were NOT on short term mission, it was THEIR FIRST mission because the 12 and 70 continued their mission working with the Jews in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and surrounding area the next 40 years. The 12 And 70 left before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. then they continue to preach the gospel to many Jews who scattered aboard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 14:42:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the correction, jetmech! jetmech and Cheriekropp have committed that cardinal sin of online forums! Respectively pointing out an error, and being thankful for the correction. Let's not make a habit of this. That kind of civility doesn't lend itself to personal insults and Nazi references.
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Post by mountain on Aug 14, 2020 15:18:16 GMT -5
Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospel and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of how they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition. speaking of not using your head you use either the whole bible or none of it to compile information. what you did was like asking someone to relate the birth of jesus in matthew without using matt 1..... My earlier post was clearly lost on you. Please go back and read what I was addressing.
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Post by mountain on Aug 14, 2020 15:22:07 GMT -5
*** I am at work right now when I get home I will post verses in the gospels, the book of Acts and epistles where Jesus sent the apostles/preachers two starting in the gospel and they continued doing it in the book of Acts and the epistles. In Matthew 10 Jesus sent the 12 in two and two= 6 pairs and Later on in Luke 10 He sent out 70 more apostles two and two= 35 pairs. In Acts 3:1-2 we read Peter and John went to the temple court yard to preach the gospel. We read in Acts chapter 13 The Holy Spirit put Barnabas and Paul as Co-workers; later on Paul took Timothy in the ministry and Barnabas took John Mark back in the ministry. The 12 and 70 were NOT on short term mission, it was THEIR FIRST mission because the 12 and 70 continued their mission working with the Jews in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and surrounding area the next 40 years. The 12 And 70 left before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. then they continue to preach the gospel to many Jews who scattered aboard. NOBODY is denying that Jesus sent the 12 and the 70 out two and two. However, Matthew 10 has been used since William Irvine got his Jack Russell terrier to justify the practice when in fact there is nothing whatsoever in the entirety of Matthew's gospel which specifically states that Jesus sent his disciples out two and two. It can of course be inferred from certain circumstances.
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 15:28:50 GMT -5
NOBODY is denying that Jesus sent the 12 and the 70 out two and two. However, Matthew 10 has been used since William Irvine got his Jack Russell terrier to justify the practice when in fact there is nothing whatsoever in the entirety of Matthew's gospel which specifically states that Jesus sent his disciples out two and two. It can of course be inferred from certain circumstances. 3 out of 4 gospels mentioned Jesus sent His apostles TWO and TWO. Mark 6:7 Matthew 10 and Luke 10... And in the book of Acts of apostles.... We read according to the Vaudois/Waldenses apostles they continued for 1800 years going TWO and TWO or in pairs as Jesus had sent his apostles.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 15:32:11 GMT -5
Sometimes I think ‘the two by two’ bit has become the God.
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Post by mountain on Aug 14, 2020 15:33:23 GMT -5
NOBODY is denying that Jesus sent the 12 and the 70 out two and two. However, Matthew 10 has been used since William Irvine got his Jack Russell terrier to justify the practice when in fact there is nothing whatsoever in the entirety of Matthew's gospel which specifically states that Jesus sent his disciples out two and two. It can of course be inferred from certain circumstances. out of 4 gospels mentioned Jesus sent His apostles TWO and TWO. Mark Matthew 10 and Luke 10. I agree with the gospels of Mark and Luke. Now show me from Matthew 10, or indeed anywhere in Matthew's gospel where it says that Jesus 'specifically' sent out his disciples two and two. To help you, here is Matthew 10 quoted for you to reference. 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 16:00:01 GMT -5
out of 4 gospels mentioned Jesus sent His apostles TWO and TWO. Mark Matthew 10 and Luke 10. I agree with the gospels of Mark and Luke. Now show me from Matthew 10, or indeed anywhere in Matthew's gospel where it says that Jesus 'specifically' sent out his disciples two and two. To help you, here is Matthew 10 quoted for you to reference. 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth.... *** READ the gospel of Mark 6:7 Jesus calling the 12 to him, he sent them out TWO and TWO. In Matthew chapter 10 jesus named the 12 apostles that he sent forth TWO and TWO... Peter and James go in pairs, James and John go in pairs and down the line...
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2020 16:12:40 GMT -5
Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospel and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of how they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition. speaking of not using your head you use either the whole bible or none of it to compile information. what you did was like asking someone to relate the birth of jesus in matthew without using matt 1..... But the Bible is like a schmorgashborg. You take what you like and dismiss anything else that isn't going to taste well with it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 16:14:26 GMT -5
out of 4 gospels mentioned Jesus sent His apostles TWO and TWO. Mark Matthew 10 and Luke 10. I agree with the gospels of Mark and Luke. Now show me from Matthew 10, or indeed anywhere in Matthew's gospel where it says that Jesus 'specifically' sent out his disciples two and two. To help you, here is Matthew 10 quoted for you to reference. 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. It clearly says here that Jesus sent his disciples out two by two. Remember just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. Sometimes you need faith to open your eyes. A wise and prudent man told me here recently that “sight often sees less than faith“ and therefore those who rely purely on sight without faith can be blind. I think this may be what is happening to you here. Indeed it was Jesus himself who said that “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes“. Always remember that the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. Anyway, I’d just like to do better in the days ahead. Matt10
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 16:53:20 GMT -5
I agree with the gospels of Mark and Luke. Now show me from Matthew 10, or indeed anywhere in Matthew's gospel where it says that Jesus 'specifically' sent out his disciples two and two. To help you, here is Matthew 10 quoted for you to reference. 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. It clearly says here that Jesus sent his disciples out two by two. Remember just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. Sometimes you need faith to open your eyes. A wise and prudent man told me here recently that “sight often sees less than faith“ and therefore those who rely purely on sight without faith can be blind. I think this may be what is happening to you here. Indeed it was Jesus himself who said that “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes“. Always remember that the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. Anyway, I’d just like to do better in the days ahead. Matt10 I read both Matt 10 Luke 10... Luke CH 22: 35 & 36 says: " ... When I sent you without purse, scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything ..?" " ... and they said, Nothong ..." "... Then said he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ..." It looks to me like at this point he changed the rules. Why are the workers in Australia making modifications to their belief system to no longer live by Matthew 10? Could it be because they realize they've been mistakenly living by a misinterpretation?
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 17:37:31 GMT -5
It clearly says here that Jesus sent his disciples out two by two. Remember just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. Sometimes you need faith to open your eyes. A wise and prudent man told me here recently that “sight often sees less than faith“ and therefore those who rely purely on sight without faith can be blind. I think this may be what is happening to you here. Indeed it was Jesus himself who said that “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes“. Always remember that the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. Anyway, I’d just like to do better in the days ahead. Matt10 I read both Matt 10 Luke 10... Luke CH 22: 35 & 36 says: " ... When I sent you without purse, scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything ..?" " ... and they said, Nothong ..." "... Then said he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ..." It looks to me like at this point he changed the rules. Why are the workers in Australia making modifications to their belief system to no longer live by Matthew 10? Could it be because they realize they've been mistakenly living by a misinterpretation? *** Jesus did NOT changed but the ANTI- 2x2 Jesus apostolic ministry want to twist the scriptures that he changed it when he did NOT. WE read the apostles continue Jesus 2x2 ministry in the book of Acts and through the centuries to our own workers generations. The Great Commission is still the same with no healing or miracles accompanying the apostles! Going in Faith 2 and 2 in service training with an older co-workers and that God will take care of them thtough their own followers. Trusting in the Holy Spirit to Guide and lead them.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 18:20:59 GMT -5
Nathan ... just curious, could you give me a reference in ACTS?
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Post by nathan on Aug 14, 2020 18:26:09 GMT -5
Nathan ... just curious, could you give me a reference in ACTS? ** Acts 3:12 John and Peter; Acts 13:1-2 Barnabas and Paul; Acts 15 Paul and Silas; Barnabas and Jonh Mark. Acts 16 Paul and Timothy.
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Post by joanna on Aug 14, 2020 19:33:43 GMT -5
BobWilliston And one of the most ridiculous behaviours we see on this board is when people use their preferred brand of 'Truth' to negate another's, all whilst condemning the others for believing they have found 'The Truth'. This is a classic case of 'it is only wrong if You do it". In the context of Christian worship they are saying that I am right in believing you are wrong for believing you are right
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Post by speak on Aug 14, 2020 23:25:02 GMT -5
What is the weapon of a Christian? Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. He told me to ask you. He said you know but you won't let it out. Sorry but what are saying? Who is He? God? If it is God then the answer is, the weapon is love. Not mans love but divine love.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 23:29:18 GMT -5
He told me to ask you. He said you know but you won't let it out. Sorry but what are saying? Who is He? God? If it is God then the answer is, the weapon is love. Not mans love but divine love. Ok Speak something has to give here... one of us has to give. Let it be me. I was just joshin' with you ... and I know you know it. You can have the last word if it's that important to you.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 14, 2020 23:36:05 GMT -5
Nathan ... just curious, could you give me a reference in ACTS? ** Acts 3:12 John and Peter; Acts 13:1-2 Barnabas and Paul; Acts 15 Paul and Silas; Barnabas and Jonh Mark. Acts 16 Paul and Timothy. In Luke CH 22:36 Jesus directed then " ... if you don't have a sword sell your garment and buy one ..." What is a sword used for? To KILL!!! The 10 COMMANDMENTS that Moses received said " Thou shalt not kill!" This is what confuses me about the Bible ... Moses says not to kill! The son of God directed his disciples to carry a sword ... a device used to KILL!
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