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Post by jetmech on Aug 12, 2020 18:16:15 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6!
Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..."
Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command?
Matthew 5&6:
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.'
Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel?
Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36?
" ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..."
Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...:
Will somebody explain this to me?
Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on?
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Post by speak on Aug 13, 2020 0:00:56 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Maybe you should converse with God about it.
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Post by joanna on Aug 13, 2020 0:10:06 GMT -5
BobWilliston "I BELIEVE THE WORKERS ARE WRONG - BIG TIME" ..... Cue those who love to "threaten damnation on others' formulae" whilst inadvertently exposing their own formulae to a critique it cannot withstand.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 13, 2020 0:14:38 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Maybe you should converse with God about it. Did already
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2020 0:25:11 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? there were a few commissions in the NT... the first one is to the jews the 2nd one is to the gentiles then there is the final one called the great commission he gave just before he ascended which is like the 2nd one i have heard the workers talk on each of those and the only part they wont touch on is the swords somehow i think pacifism crept into the kingdom somewhere down the line...
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 572
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Post by magpies39plus on Aug 13, 2020 2:33:29 GMT -5
Try Ephesians 4..11/12,Jesus left gifts to the Church/Body of Christ!! Why did William Irvine leave this gifts to the church out of his dictatorship? Magpie.
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Aug 13, 2020 5:39:59 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Matt 10 is clearly a command for a specific short-term mission of a few weeks - they were to take nothing and food etc would be provided by hosts. In Luke 22, Jesus was telling them just before he was crucified that they would need to take both money and also a sword, for protection, on their journeys in spreading the gospel. In Acts they obviously had money, many of the apostles had wives and homes, we read of Paul working as a tent maker for a period and renting a place to stay. We read that a worker is worthy to receive a wage and those who preach the gospel are worthy to receive payment or a wage for doing so. It’s all in God’s Word - hard to work out why the 2x2’s have made such a big thing about it. I’ve heard from about 5 different sources (people in meetings) that the workers now state (based on a deliberate change made in the last year by senior workers), that they don’t follow Matthew 10 any more. Perhaps they’ve realised it was a short-term mission to the Jewish people to tell them the Messiah and they were not following it anyway. Seems sensible.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 13, 2020 7:10:50 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? there were a few commissions in the NT... the first one is to the jews the 2nd one is to the gentiles then there is the final one called the great commission he gave just before he ascended which is like the 2nd one i have heard the workers talk on each of those and the only part they wont touch on is the swords somehow i think pacifism crept into the kingdom somewhere down the line... If you don't carry the weapon of a soldier, you are not fulfilling scripture. Today, that would either be an AK47 or M4 rifle. Very few churches abide by the Word of God on this matter.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 13, 2020 8:09:45 GMT -5
This is very interesting, Ross!
Any more you can tell us about this new development in Australia?
Are the workers stating this in meetings, or privately?
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Post by Ross.Bowden on Aug 13, 2020 9:02:38 GMT -5
This is very interesting, Ross! Any more you can tell us about this new development in Australia? Are the workers stating this in meetings, or privately? It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here.
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Post by ForeverFree on Aug 13, 2020 9:44:26 GMT -5
This is very interesting, Ross! Any more you can tell us about this new development in Australia? Are the workers stating this in meetings, or privately? It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Makes one wonder if these proposed/suggested changes will lead to divisions such as Irvine/Cooney, Walker/Carroll, Eastern North America/Western North America.
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Post by joanna on Aug 13, 2020 19:25:16 GMT -5
ForeverFree. Would be no surprise as the reason there are over 30,000 Christian sects is due to schisms within these sects and groups breaking off and forming their own brand. A brand that fits their preferred biblical interpretation. Consider the Roman Catholic schism that formed the Church of England. The wife-murdering Henry VIII broke with the RC's because he wanted a divorce. It would be convenient for some to keep the focus on the 2x2 history. Its a diversion from the historical horrors inflicted by the Roman Catholic and Church of England.
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Post by openingact34 on Aug 13, 2020 20:38:13 GMT -5
It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Makes one wonder if these proposed/suggested changes will lead to divisions such as Irvine/Cooney, Walker/Carroll, Eastern North America/Western North America. The rules have always been flexible for people who wield enough influence through their wealth or property. My guess is the Australian overseers are "playing nice" with the grandchildren of someone who is going to leave them a huge fortune. Can you imagine what the reaction would be if the professing folks in a small village in Peru or Vietnam tried asking if the rules had changed?
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Post by dmmichgood on Aug 13, 2020 21:12:59 GMT -5
It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Makes one wonder if these proposed/suggested changes will lead to divisions such as Irvine/Cooney, Walker/Carroll, Eastern North America/Western North America. Just as all religious movements do when they become large enough to have different opinions on doctrine.
Example: Just think about how many different Baptist denominations there are!
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Post by nathan on Aug 13, 2020 21:15:02 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
In 1928 Edward Cooney believed in Matthew 10 instructions and thought it was for his days! and he could heal. He called the overseer, the workers, and the friends to comeg together to see him heal one of the friends just like the apostles did 2000 years ago. Edward C. tried to heal her sickness and he failed and told her one of the reasons, she didn't get healed because her lack of Faith in God. The overseers and workers began to disassociate with Edward C. soon after that and excommunicated him from the ministry and fellowship.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 13, 2020 21:23:22 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
Nathan it's my understanding Matthew 10 pertained ONLY to the 12 being sent to the HOUSE OF ISRAEL. This is stated clearly in Matthew CH 10: verses 5 & 6; the taking only one coat, no money in their purse, no scrip ... all pertains to just that one time in a trip to the House of Israel. If you think about it ... Paul went to Tarsus alone and preached and he preached alone to the Samaritans, Peter also preached alone as did Philip; this was after Jesus changed those rules, and this time Paul went to the Samaritans. Where before he didn't.
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Post by nathan on Aug 13, 2020 21:48:16 GMT -5
Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
Nathan it's my understanding Matthew 10 pertained ONLY to the 12 being sent to the HOUSE OF ISRAEL. This is stated clearly in Matthew CH 10: verses 5 & 6; the taking only one coat, no money in their purse, no scrip ... all pertains to just that one time in a trip to the House of Israel. Yes, it was God and Christ promised and foretold in the Old Testament that the House of Israel and Jews in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria would get the "FIRST" opportunity to hear the Message/Gospel of their Salvation before the Gentiles. Read Acts 5:22-26 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
It was NOT one time trip! but the BEGINNING! God, Christ and Holy Spirit had TWO groups of apostles sent forth! the 12 and 70 were sent to the children of Israel and the Jews beginning in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria for 40 years then they went to ALL the world preaching mostly among the children of Israel scattered out the world AFTER the Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
The Second group of apostles were chosen by Christ Jesus Barnabas and Paul were the first one whom the Holy Spirit sent to be as co-workers to Preach and labor among the Gentiles people and nations... The Holy Spirit sent out others in Acts chapters 13-19 such as Silas, John Mark, Luke, Timothy Titus, Apollo, Sosthenes and many others... The gospel and apostles have been continuing sent by the Holy Spirit into the world for 2000 years.
It seemed after the death of the 12 and 70 apostles, they all merged in the Great Commission to Jews and Gentiles into ONE Great Commission until Jesus RETURNS as the Ruler and King of kings on the earth 1000 yrs reign with His people from the Old and New Test. believers.
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Post by speak on Aug 13, 2020 22:48:17 GMT -5
Maybe you should converse with God about it. Did already And the answer?
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Post by speak on Aug 13, 2020 22:52:07 GMT -5
there were a few commissions in the NT... the first one is to the jews the 2nd one is to the gentiles then there is the final one called the great commission he gave just before he ascended which is like the 2nd one i have heard the workers talk on each of those and the only part they wont touch on is the swords somehow i think pacifism crept into the kingdom somewhere down the line... If you don't carry the weapon of a soldier, you are not fulfilling scripture. Today, that would either be an AK47 or M4 rifle. Very few churches abide by the Word of God on this matter. What is the weapon of a Christian? Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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Post by speak on Aug 13, 2020 22:54:00 GMT -5
This is very interesting, Ross! Any more you can tell us about this new development in Australia? Are the workers stating this in meetings, or privately? It's been there all the time.
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Post by speak on Aug 13, 2020 22:55:29 GMT -5
This is very interesting, Ross! Any more you can tell us about this new development in Australia? Are the workers stating this in meetings, or privately? It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Have never heard any reference to matt 10 as being the guideline for the fellowship.
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Post by jetmech on Aug 13, 2020 23:14:58 GMT -5
It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Have never heard any reference to matt 10 as being the guideline for the fellowship. I sure have. From about 1960 through 1968 I heard workers quote Matt 10 verses 9 & 10 many times, and they used the word "Script" instead of Scrip. I remember the workers speaking about a sister worker who had walked so far... she had worn out her one pair of shoes, and she had blisters on her feet. The poor sister worker sat down on the ground and said she just couldn't go on. She wrote a hymn entitled "I CAN'T GO BACK" or something; but, yes they and the friends often pointed out Matt 10 verses 9 & 10 as a pattern for their going out in pairs. etc Not getting married and so on.
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Post by ForeverFree on Aug 14, 2020 1:10:14 GMT -5
It’s relatively new so the theory from the professing folk who have mentioned it, is that it was likely discussed at the Australian Workers’ Meeting in Jan 2020. No special meetings or conventions since that time. Note quite a number of senior NZ workers were at that meeting and it has also came from a source in NZ who has connections with a few of the workers there. The focus is still very much on their ministry being itinerant - this wording is used in the Worker Code of Conduct recently rolled out in most Australian states, their ministers not receiving a salary, they are not registered etc. but a deliberate move away from referencing Matthew 10. The other change being talked about is that apparently people who marry outside will no longer be “sat down” and denied fellowship privileges for a period of time - again quite sensible. Just a couple of the changes that are referenced here. Have never heard any reference to matt 10 as being the guideline for the fellowship. Seriously? This was what we were told growing up by workers, and this is how we were told to explain things.
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Post by ForeverFree on Aug 14, 2020 1:17:23 GMT -5
Makes one wonder if these proposed/suggested changes will lead to divisions such as Irvine/Cooney, Walker/Carroll, Eastern North America/Western North America. The rules have always been flexible for people who wield enough influence through their wealth or property. My guess is the Australian overseers are "playing nice" with the grandchildren of someone who is going to leave them a huge fortune. Can you imagine what the reaction would be if the professing folks in a small village in Peru or Vietnam tried asking if the rules had changed? Yes, money talks. Hush money talks even louder.
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
Posts: 572
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Post by magpies39plus on Aug 14, 2020 2:03:21 GMT -5
I asked a Question,earlier!! Why did the 2x2 founder leave out Ephesians 4--v 11/12 ? While you are at it 1 Corinthians 9--V 4/5. We were ear bashed as kids when another denomination was mentioned,OH,the last verses in The Revelation"says not to take away or add to the Book,and they sprinkle their babies,and wear their collars back to front!! I think that would go to all scripture,as well wouldn't it??? There is a huge list that Irvine removed,especially from the Epistles. Another subject for another time,aye.Love Magpie
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Post by mountain on Aug 14, 2020 2:54:57 GMT -5
I remember so well the workers reading Matthew Ch 9 & 10 ... in home-mtgs, in conventions, and in gospel mtgs; but, I think they skipped verses 5 & 6! Matt 10: 9&10 GO IN POVERTY - " ... Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat ..." Did the founders of the 2x2 church and the workers/friends take this wrong? Did they not see that Jesus when he gave these commands was talking only about when they go to Israel (verses 5 & 6) in which he mentions BEFORE giving the "GO IN POVERTY" command? Matthew 5&6: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, 'Go into the way of the Gentiles, and into ANY city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But, go rather TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.' Could Jesus have been talking about them providing no scrip for there journey, no staves, only one coat, no shoes, no money in their purses, etc ONLY when they go to Israel? Did our Lord Jesus change this in Luke Ch 22: 35 & 36? " ... and he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything? ...and they said, Nothing..." Then, said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one ...: Will somebody explain this to me? Why don't the workers cite those latter verses in meetings? What's going on? Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
In 1928 Edward Cooney believed in Matthew 10 instructions and thought it was for his days! and he could heal. He called the overseer, the workers, and the friends to comeg together to see him heal one of the friends just like the apostles did 2000 years ago. Edward C. tried to heal her sickness and he failed and told her one of the reasons, she didn't get healed because her lack of Faith in God. The overseers and workers began to disassociate with Edward C. soon after that and excommunicated him from the ministry and fellowship.
Show me one reference from anywhere in Matthew's gospel, not just Matthew 10, where the disciples are specifically instructed to go out on a two and two ministry?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2020 6:22:07 GMT -5
Here is my understanding and observation.... William Irvine and the early days 2x2 workers got their Matthew 10 from the Faith Mission, that was how they went forth to preach TWO and TWO, married and unmarried Pilgrim/workers preachers. Going forth in Faith! God will provide their needs.
The Early days 2x2 workers copied or follow the Faith Mission Matthew 10 but that mission was sent to the children of Israel in those accompanied with healing and miracles to prove to the Jews that the Messiah has come after 4000 years of waiting.
The workers are the part of the Second group, the Great Commission to ALL the world Matthew 28. There are many similar instructions to the 12,70 apostles/sent ones to the Great commission. The BIG difference is NO miracles and healing were given in the Great Commission, but many of the instruction in Matthew 10 were the same.... Going in Faith and God will provide for their needs through their followers and hospital of others, be light travelers/preachers. Leave their homes, occupations, possessions behind.
The workers today and those who had done before them, should NOT follow Matthew 10 ALL of Jesus instructions because that was for the Jews in Jesus days! The workers today follow Matthew 28 the Great Commission. Going in Faith and trust God to provide their needs through the goodness and kindness of their followers and people they meet.
In 1928 Edward Cooney believed in Matthew 10 instructions and thought it was for his days! and he could heal. He called the overseer, the workers, and the friends to comeg together to see him heal one of the friends just like the apostles did 2000 years ago. Edward C. tried to heal her sickness and he failed and told her one of the reasons, she didn't get healed because her lack of Faith in God. The overseers and workers began to disassociate with Edward C. soon after that and excommunicated him from the ministry and fellowship.
Show me one reference from anywhere in Matthew's gospel, not just Matthew 10, where the disciples are specifically instructed to go out on a two and two ministry? why limit it to just matthew? are the other gospels not enough?
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Post by mountain on Aug 14, 2020 6:37:18 GMT -5
Show me one reference from anywhere in Matthew's gospel, not just Matthew 10, where the disciples are specifically instructed to go out on a two and two ministry? why limit it to just matthew? are the other gospels not enough? Wally, try and use your head when interjecting in other peoples' posts. I was responding to Nathan's post in which he specifically referred to Matthew's gospel at least six times, including Matthew 10 on four occasions. He quoted no other gospel or other NT writings. Nathan was making his post in reference to the early disciples and today's two and two workers, using Matthew's gospel as his benchmark. It was in THIS context that I was responding. As for specific references in the other gospels, sending out two and two is only mentioned twice, once in Mark's gospel and once in Luke's gospel. In neither case is it a doctrinal instruction or command, but in both cases it is a matter of fact statement of how they were sent out. Mark 6.7 “And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;”
Luke 10.1 'After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.'Mark IS referring to the time Jesus sent out the 12, which is given in far more detail in Matthew 10. Matthew's more explicit account, in fact his whole gospel omits any specific mention of two and two, though it can be 'inferred' from other circumstances. Matthew gives far more importance to all other aspects of the mission, whereas Mark gives a brief statement as to how the disciples were sent out. Not something to fix an unshakeable doctrine on. Luke similarly makes a statement as to how the 70 were sent out. That is all. However, both the sending out of the 12 and the 70 were short term missions which required speedy expedition.
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