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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 7, 2020 1:11:28 GMT -5
Top 10 Universities for Theology 2019 Based on the QS World University Rankings by Subject 2019 Rank Name of institution Location 1 Harvard University United States 2 University of Notre Dame US 3 University of Oxford United Kingdom 4 University of Cambridge UK 5 Durham University UK =6 Eberhard Karls Universität Tübingen Germany =6 Yale University US 8 Université Catholique de Louvain Belgium 9 Duke University US 10 University of Chicago US For Australia, Australian College of Theology gets top marks. And not one of them ordained by Christ. That is an assumption on your part, similar to the assumption of yours that the workers are ordained by your christ.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 7, 2020 1:13:15 GMT -5
Hmmmm, If you aren't born again of the water and spirit, The only thing left to quench your thirst is probably be to turn to one of these instead. They are for head knowledge not heart knowledge. Hearts don't think, brains do.
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 1:22:59 GMT -5
And not one of them ordained by Christ. That is an assumption on your part, similar to the assumption of yours that the workers are ordained by your christ. The workers are ordained by the Holy Spirit, who is overseeing Christ's work on earth until He returns to earth as King of kings and LORD of lords. Christ is in heaven/Interior of Venus now with God the Father.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 1:28:15 GMT -5
And in that you have your answer Jesus took his disciples aside and taught them. News flash Jesus is not dead.So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home"It's too bad Christian theology and rules are an ever shifting spit of land. In the Christian community I grew up in, all the girls would have to "stand" up straight on their knees, and if their dresses didn't touch the floor they would be excommunicated. Pants of course were not allowed, except in winter, under your dress, if walking to school. When did those unwritten rules, by the parishioners of the trained theological graduates change? What's the latest on homosexuality, these days? - speaking of sexual abuse. How about capital punishment.
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 1:29:16 GMT -5
And in that you have your answer Jesus took his disciples aside and taught them. News flash Jesus is not dead.So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home" 2000 years ago, the 12 and 70 had Jesus to train them how to become preachers... After Jesus went back to heaven/Venus He sent Holy Spirit to be in charge of His work on earth with the apostles.
The Holy Spirit has been ordaining and training Christ's apostles for the last 2000 years through the older apostles as mentors to the younger ones/men and women as preachers, teachers, pastors, missionaries, and so on... to build up/strengthen the New Testament churches/God's people to help them to becomes messengers of hope to all the world.
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Post by speak on Jul 7, 2020 1:29:32 GMT -5
And not one of them ordained by Christ. That is an assumption on your part, similar to the assumption of yours that the workers are ordained by your christ. An assumption on your part my friend, and I didn't say as far as I know that the workers are ordained by Christ but I'm not denying to my mind they are. There is the Holy Spirit which reveals these things, if one can't see that then they don't have the Holy Spirit.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 7, 2020 1:31:47 GMT -5
That is an assumption on your part, similar to the assumption of yours that the workers are ordained by your christ. An assumption on your part my friend, and I didn't say as far as I know that the workers are ordained by Christ but I'm not denying to my mind they are. There is the Holy Spirit which reveals these things, if one can't see that then they don't have the Holy Spirit. I have heard of people believing in spirits, holy (Whatever that is) or otherwise. I much prefer factual evidence.
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Post by speak on Jul 7, 2020 1:34:27 GMT -5
They are for head knowledge not heart knowledge. Hearts don't think, brains do. Ever heard of broken hearts? It's in the feelings. Knowledge generally come from an outside source not from which the brain can conger up.
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Post by speak on Jul 7, 2020 1:36:59 GMT -5
An assumption on your part my friend, and I didn't say as far as I know that the workers are ordained by Christ but I'm not denying to my mind they are. There is the Holy Spirit which reveals these things, if one can't see that then they don't have the Holy Spirit. I have heard of people believing in spirits, holy (Whatever that is) or otherwise. I much prefer factual evidence. One cannot get knowledge of The Holy Spirit through factual evidence it is God given. But we are what we are and we know what we know right or wrong.
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Post by Grant on Jul 7, 2020 1:44:13 GMT -5
So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home" 2000 years ago, the 12 and 70 had Jesus to train them how to become preachers... After Jesus went back to heaven/Venus He sent Holy Spirit to be in charge of His work on earth with the apostles.
The Holy Spirit has been ordaining and training Christ's apostles for the last 2000 years through the older apostles as mentors to the younger ones/men and women as preachers, teachers, pastors, missionaries, and so on... to build up/strengthen the New Testament churches/God's people to help them to becomes messengers of hope to all the world.
That's exactly what Bible College does, the older trains the younger. A bit like convention everyday for a year or more. The workers would definitely benefit from some knowledge of the Bible. Their Bible ignorance certainly shows. Jesus and the apostles and others no doubt had much training in the scriptures from a young age. Were not living 2,000 years ago. How much more do we need it as we're living in a different time and culture.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 2:33:30 GMT -5
2000 years ago, the 12 and 70 had Jesus to train them how to become preachers... After Jesus went back to heaven/Venus He sent Holy Spirit to be in charge of His work on earth with the apostles.
The Holy Spirit has been ordaining and training Christ's apostles for the last 2000 years through the older apostles as mentors to the younger ones/men and women as preachers, teachers, pastors, missionaries, and so on... to build up/strengthen the New Testament churches/God's people to help them to becomes messengers of hope to all the world.
And............not one of them preaches that Jesus lives inside the planet Venus. And they are to be commended for not teaching that worldly foolishness.
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Post by Dan on Jul 7, 2020 2:56:49 GMT -5
All I know is that Venus was a Roman goddess.. That revelation came to me via Frankie Avalon; "Venus, goddess of love that you are"
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Post by mountain on Jul 7, 2020 4:18:12 GMT -5
And yet the apostles and disciples spent 3 years of Scripture learning and training from Jesus himself. There are numerous mentions of the times Jesus took his disciples aside to teach them. And in that you have your answer Jesus took his disciples aside and taught them. News flash Jesus is not dead.'Spirit of God my teacher be, showing the things of Christ to me.' This is what we should trust in....not man. Trusting in the Holy Spirit is THE JESUS WAY! Do you believe what Jesus and the early disciples said, or do you believe in man made institutions, which all vary in their instruction. (Virgs) bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/The-Holy-Spirit-As-TeacherThe Apostle John CLEARLY did not agree with man made theological colleges as sources of spiritual knowledge. In fact he would have condemned them as from 'below' rather than 'above!' (VIRGS.....AGAIN!) Those who believe in Bible colleges are on far more unsure ground than those who criticise the workers for believing they are intermediaries between God and man, for if the Bible college acts not as a major form of intermediary, then what is it? Most people cannot preach in a church unless they have some form of accreditation from these spiritually subterranean man made authorities. (VIRGS.....Goondess me, he's at it again!)
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 9:03:46 GMT -5
2000 years ago, the 12 and 70 had Jesus to train them how to become preachers... After Jesus went back to heaven/Venus He sent Holy Spirit to be in charge of His work on earth with the apostles.
The Holy Spirit has been ordaining and training Christ's apostles for the last 2000 years through the older apostles as mentors to the younger ones/men and women as preachers, teachers, pastors, missionaries, and so on... to build up/strengthen the New Testament churches/God's people to help them to becomes messengers of hope to all the world.
That's exactly what Bible College does, the older trains the younger. A bit like convention everyday for a year or more. The workers would definitely benefit from some knowledge of the Bible. Their Bible ignorance certainly shows. Jesus and the apostles and others no doubt had much training in the scriptures from a young age. Were not living 2,000 years ago. How much more do we need it as we're living in a different time and culture. Bible College Seminary is MEN way of doing thing and they ARE NOT of or from God and Christ, and Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit is the BEST teacher than any Bible seminary or men on earth. He has been teaching Christ's ordained and chosen like Saul/Paul the 12 and 70 Train in EVERY generation for the last 2000 years.... Jesus method and message the same yesterday, today and forever! The Holy Spirit will be on earth as Teacher, guide and Protector till Jesus Returns.
Remember, the words of Jesus on Matthew 7:21-28 TAKE HEED to His WORDS!
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching.
~~ Don't be spiritual builders and built on Sand foundation/Men ideas, belief, system/Bible seminary schools and teachings because it will NOT stand the TEST of time and Receive NO SALVATION or rewards and in the day of Judgment. Men system, ways and message are NOT approve or ordain by God.
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 9:09:36 GMT -5
And............not one of them preaches that Jesus lives inside the planet Venus. And they are to be commended for not teaching that worldly foolishness. Time will tell who are the jokers and believing in foolishness.
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 9:12:27 GMT -5
All I know is that Venus was a Roman goddess.. That revelation came to me via Frankie Avalon; "Venus, goddess of love that you are" The Godhead is the God of LOVE from Interior planet of Venus.... God the Father sent His ONLY begotten God Christ, who came down from heaven/Venus in the person Jesus to DIE for our sins so we can have IMMORTAL resurrection bodies to rule and reign with them for all eternity.
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Post by chuck on Jul 7, 2020 9:45:40 GMT -5
Speak, the obvious answer is - "from their fellow man" That's all they've got, after all. Too bad the different Christian sects can't agree on what that pie in the sky proper Bible College is. eh? The Catholic's have certainly gotten more than their share of kicks from others, - although I personally think they have the most biblically consistent philosophy of them all, end to end. Unfortunately I've recently had to question the Lutheran's teaching, which I formerly had little knowledge or reason to question, since my fellow astronomical buddy got excommunicated from the Lutheran church. "Jim" (let's call him) expressed that he didn't believe in the 7 days (24hr/per) creation. As Jim described it to me, after a couple of weeks following this discussion with his pastor (that title being blasphemous in any case) in his sincerest sonorous voice said 'Jim, if you're going to take that stand, you are on a slippery slope, questioning the word of God in the Holy Bible, and so if you hold to this belief, we cannot have fellowship with you any more.' And so, Jim was out. btw, have the Christian colleges come to any consensus on this? What's your opinion redback? 24hr days, 1000yr days, other? Which college teaching do you hold to? Neither, its a poem!.
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Post by chuck on Jul 7, 2020 9:50:14 GMT -5
So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home"Time for a wake up Christ still teachers. The ministry preaches Christ teachers. The ever-shifting sands of mans theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. let's hear the chorus again... "ministers with a home and meetings in the church building" The cult gathers in chruch buildings, some are quite elaborate as well, and some are illegal. What a farce.
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Post by chuck on Jul 7, 2020 9:51:20 GMT -5
That is an assumption on your part, similar to the assumption of yours that the workers are ordained by your christ. The workers are ordained by the Holy Spirit, who is overseeing Christ's work on earth until He returns to earth as King of kings and LORD of lords. Christ is in heaven/Interior of Venus now with God the Father.I call bull.
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Post by chuck on Jul 7, 2020 10:12:20 GMT -5
That's exactly what Bible College does, the older trains the younger. A bit like convention everyday for a year or more. The workers would definitely benefit from some knowledge of the Bible. Their Bible ignorance certainly shows. Jesus and the apostles and others no doubt had much training in the scriptures from a young age. Were not living 2,000 years ago. How much more do we need it as we're living in a different time and culture. Bible College Seminary is MEN way of doing thing and they ARE NOT of or from God and Christ, and Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit is the BEST teacher than any Bible seminary or men on earth. He has been teaching Christ's ordained and chosen like Saul/Paul the 12 and 70 Train in EVERY generation for the last 2000 years.... Jesus method and message the same yesterday, today and forever! The Holy Spirit will be on earth as Teacher, guide and Protector till Jesus Returns.
Remember, the words of Jesus on Matthew 7:21-28 TAKE HEED to His WORDS!
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The Wise and Foolish Builders
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching.
~~ Don't be spiritual builders and built on Sand foundation/Men ideas, belief, system/Bible seminary schools and teachings because it will NOT stand the TEST of time and Receive NO SALVATION or rewards and in the day of Judgment. Men system, ways and message are NOT approve or ordain by God.
Nathan Jesus always said "I never knew you" to those who thought they were in or exclusive. Oops!. I always wondered how your holy spirit(2x2ism) could produce so many kiddy fiddlers in "the truth". It's so telling that 2x2ism is clueless of the scriptures and knows nothing of the Holy Spirit, hence why it's so exclusive!. It teaches selfishness, shame, idol worship, misogyny, indoctrination, hate, judgement. Nothing of the Character of Christ!.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 7, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -5
So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home"It's too bad Christian theology and rules are an ever shifting spit of land. In the Christian community I grew up in, all the girls would have to "stand" up straight on their knees, and if their dresses didn't touch the floor they would be excommunicated. Pants of course were not allowed, except in winter, under your dress, if walking to school. When did those unwritten rules, by the parishioners of the trained theological graduates change? What's the latest on homosexuality, these days? - speaking of sexual abuse. How about capital punishment. No one seems to remember that Christian men switched from wearing flowing togas to pants.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 7, 2020 16:47:09 GMT -5
So the disciples had 3 years of full-time theological training from the best teacher available at the time. And you somehow thinks this equates to the current ministry practice how?? Your response is ingenuous, to say the least. The ever-shifting sands of two-by-two theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. Except for... let's hear the chorus again... "ministers without a home and meetings in the home"It's too bad Christian theology and rules are an ever shifting spit of land. In the Christian community I grew up in, all the girls would have to "stand" up straight on their knees, and if their dresses didn't touch the floor they would be excommunicated. Pants of course were not allowed, except in winter, under your dress, if walking to school. When did those unwritten rules, by the parishioners of the trained theological graduates change? What's the latest on homosexuality, these days? - speaking of sexual abuse. How about capital punishment. Are you saying that homosexuality is sexual abuse?
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Post by ForeverFree on Jul 7, 2020 16:53:43 GMT -5
There are A LOT of things not mentioned in the Bible. It doesn't mean things didn't happen. Are so Jesus had a collage then? That's not my point.
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Post by speak on Jul 7, 2020 18:56:55 GMT -5
Are so Jesus had a collage then? That's not my point. It's my point
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Post by speak on Jul 7, 2020 18:57:14 GMT -5
Time for a wake up Christ still teachers. The ministry preaches Christ teachers. The ever-shifting sands of mans theology and rules show that there is no Biblical unity. let's hear the chorus again... "ministers with a home and meetings in the church building" The cult gathers in chruch buildings, some are quite elaborate as well, and some are illegal. What a farce. .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 20:20:59 GMT -5
Yes it is a bit farcical, but you still keep doing it.
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Post by matisse on Jul 7, 2020 21:06:31 GMT -5
The Faith Mission, joined by William Irvine in 1895, still exists. Here is the website: faithmission.orgThey are still passionate about evangelism, Bible training and conventions. Much of the vocabulary of the Two-by-twos was inherited from The Faith Mission - workers, fields, gospel meetings, conventions, even 'resting' for workers who were having a break. I remember as much derision by 2x2 workers of preachers who would tell people to "Go to the Church of your choice" as I remember derision of Catholics. (Plenty of each, especially from the older workers.) Billy Graham was one preacher who was mocked by name from the platform (especially by AA). But Billy Graham took inspiration from the same Keswick Conventions that served as an inspiration for George Gowan, founder of the 2x2's launchpad, Faith Mission. So essentially it was mockery of our very own religious cousins. A good family therapist might have insight! :)
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Post by nathan on Jul 7, 2020 21:52:55 GMT -5
The Faith Mission, joined by William Irvine in 1895, still exists. Here is the website: faithmission.orgThey are still passionate about evangelism, Bible training and conventions. Much of the vocabulary of the Two-by-twos was inherited from The Faith Mission - workers, fields, gospel meetings, conventions, even 'resting' for workers who were having a break. I remember as much derision by 2x2 workers of preachers who would tell people to "Go to the Church of your choice" as I remember derision of Catholics. (Plenty of each, especially from the older workers.) Billy Graham was one preacher who was mocked by name from the platform (especially by AA). But Billy Graham took inspiration from the same Keswick Conventions that served as an inspiration for George Gowan, founder of the 2x2's launchpad, Faith Mission. So essentially it was mockery of our very own religious cousins. A good family therapist might have insight! That was why, the early workers LEFT the Faith Mission, "Go, and join the churches of your choice." The Faith Mission was non-exclusive group of believers. Most of the friends didn't want to go back to the denomination and churches they came out of... Therefore, they set up their own Sunday morning worship meetings to celebrate Christ's eucharists or the emblems with like minded believers, and they baptize their own converts like they did in the book of Acts/apostles.
I believe the early workers and friends were lead by the Holy Spirit to understand Jesus Christ New Testament ministry and fellowship, which they established in 1900s.
George Walker, 2x2 worker (1899) wrote: To the American Selective service in 1942
We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of people in British Isles and in America were exercised in heart and mind, through their study of the Scriptures, in regard to the methods of preaching and worship in the several churches of which they were members. They were deeply concerned about the spiritual things, and became fully convinced that there should be a Return! to the methods and purpose taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples.
This conviction led to frequent earnest conversations and studies on the subject, which in turn led to religious meetings, and in due times a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the gospel according to the teaching and example of Christ as given in the New Testament... i.e. "Two by Two" and without salary or making appeal for financial assistance, putting implicit trust in God and His promise that as they "sought first the kingdom of God" their natural needs of food and raiment's "would be added unto them."
As a result of this step, many people expressed their desire to be in fellowship with such preachers and this led to regular gathering together of small assemblies in homes for worship and study of God's word. The reason for meeting in homes was primary because it is Scriptures, the Christians during the first centuries of the Christian were met regularly for worship in the homes, which fact is also borne out and supported by church history.
Thus after serious consideration, the leaders were confident that in their efforts to follow the early Christians they should form church gatherings in homes; therefore NO church property or real estate has been acquired by purchased or otherwise, and for this reason incorporation and registration under denominational name has NOT been necessary....
George Walker
~~ August, 1954: Testimony of Ida West from North Ireland who later became an ex-2x2
An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.
They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others.
The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly.
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