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Post by jetmech on Jun 29, 2020 23:28:13 GMT -5
I grew up in the 2x2 way.
We were taught that GOD does not dwell in temples or church buildings made with hands; thus meetings in the home.
We were also told there was no collection plate in - GOD'S true way, and no treasury.
Matthew 21:12 Jesus went into the temple of GOD and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves.
and Jesus said " ... it is written " ... My house shall be called the house of prayer; but, ye have made it a den of thieves ..."
" ... and the blind and the lame came to him [Jesus] in the temple; and he healed them..."
So, Jesus did, in fact, preach, teach, and heal in temples!
and then, we were taught in mtg that there was no collection, no tithing, money was never mentioned:
Luke CH 21:1 " ... and he [Jesus] looked and saw the rich men casting gifts into the treasury, and he saw a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites ..." and he [Jesus] said, " ... of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow has cast in more then them all ..."
verse 4 " . she hast cast in all the living that she has ..."
John 8:2 " ... early in the morning [Jesus] he came again into the temple and all the people came to him and he taught them ..."
So, it looks to me like there was in fact a treasury, Jesus did, in fact, teach in temples sometimes, and there were collections taken!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 23:51:31 GMT -5
I grew up in the 2x2 way. We were taught that GOD does not dwell in temples or church buildings made with hands; thus meetings in the home. We were also told there was no collection plate in - GOD'S true way, and no treasury. Matthew 21:12 Jesus went into the temple of GOD and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves. and Jesus said " ... it is written " ... My house shall be called the house of prayer; but, ye have made it a den of thieves ..." " ... and the blind and the lame came to him [Jesus] in the temple; and he healed them..." So, Jesus did, in fact, preach, teach, and heal in temples! and then, we were taught in mtg that there was no collection, no tithing, money was never mentioned: Luke CH 21:1 " ... and he [Jesus] looked and saw the rich men casting gifts into the treasury, and he saw a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites ..." and he [Jesus] said, " ... of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow has cast in more then them all ..." verse 4 " . she hast cast in all the living that she has ..." John 8:2 " ... early in the morning [Jesus] he came again into the temple and all the people came to him and he taught them ..." So, it looks to me like there was in fact a treasury, Jesus did, in fact, teach in temples sometimes, and there were collections taken! that treasury was jewish it was not a christian one...i'd have to study about temples before i say anything about them...
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2020 0:01:57 GMT -5
I grew up in the 2x2 way. We were taught that GOD does not dwell in temples or church buildings made with hands; thus meetings in the home. We were also told there was no collection plate in - GOD'S true way, and no treasury. Matthew 21:12 Jesus went into the temple of GOD and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves. and Jesus said " ... it is written " ... My house shall be called the house of prayer; but, ye have made it a den of thieves ..." " ... and the blind and the lame came to him [Jesus] in the temple; and he healed them..." So, Jesus did, in fact, preach, teach, and heal in temples! and then, we were taught in mtg that there was no collection, no tithing, money was never mentioned: Luke CH 21:1 " ... and he [Jesus] looked and saw the rich men casting gifts into the treasury, and he saw a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites ..." and he [Jesus] said, " ... of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow has cast in more then them all ..." verse 4 " . she hast cast in all the living that she has ..." John 8:2 " ... early in the morning [Jesus] he came again into the temple and all the people came to him and he taught them ..." So, it looks to me like there was in fact a treasury, Jesus did, in fact, teach in temples sometimes, and there were collections taken! In Acts 5 the followers of Christ in Jerusalem sold their properties so the new converts could STAY a little longer to learn about Christ and His teaching from the apostles. The collection was taken for the Saints again NOT for the apostles/workers.
In the New Testament there were collection taken but it was for the poor saints in Jerusalem NOT for the apostles/workers. There was a draught had taken place so the saints from different countries came together and collected what they had and sent the money help the brothers and sisters in Christ at Jerusalem. It was the saints in other countries turn to help those in Jerusalem, who had sold their properties so they could stay and learn more about Jesus and His doctrines before they headed homes.In the New Testament only Freewill= give whatever you can; no obligation to be given/support the apostles/workers... NOT by 10% tithing or collections but by freewill/by choice.
2) Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2020 0:53:43 GMT -5
Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods. God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, or houses made with hands, or implement sheds made with hands. Isaiah 57:15 The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: "I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts."
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2020 1:01:29 GMT -5
Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods. God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, or houses made with hands, or implement sheds made with hands. Isaiah 57:15 The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: "I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts." In the Old and New Testament God's Spirit dwelt in the temple made with hands of His chosen people... in the Holy of Holy... ONLY the High Priest entered once a year. Now, the Godhead dwells in our hearts, which are the temple of God.
God has NEVER dwell in pagans temples made with the hands of men. God does NOT share His dwelling place with Satan or any false gods temples.
God the Father and Christ live in heaven/Interior planet of Venus, high above the earth.
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Post by fixit on Jun 30, 2020 3:46:26 GMT -5
God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, or houses made with hands, or implement sheds made with hands. Isaiah 57:15 The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: "I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts." In the Old and New Testament God's Spirit dwelt in the temple made with hands of His chosen people... in the Holy of Holy... ONLY the High Priest entered once a year. Now, the Godhead dwells in our hearts, which are the temple of God.
God has NEVER dwell in pagans temples made with the hands of men. God does NOT share His dwelling place with Satan or any false gods temples.
God the Father and Christ live in heaven/Interior planet of Venus, high above the earth.
You're missing the point entirely.
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Post by Grant on Jun 30, 2020 4:15:05 GMT -5
God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands, or houses made with hands, or implement sheds made with hands. Isaiah 57:15 The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: "I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts." In the Old and New Testament God's Spirit dwelt in the temple made with hands of His chosen people... in the Holy of Holy... ONLY the High Priest entered once a year. Now, the Godhead dwells in our hearts, which are the temple of God.
God has NEVER dwell in pagans temples made with the hands of men. God does NOT share His dwelling place with Satan or any false gods ptemples.
God the Father and Christ live in heaven/Interior planet of Venus, high above the earth.
God instructed people to build the temple and synagogues to bring their offerings and worship him. The Christians in Acts went daily to pray in the temple. I do not know of anyone who believes God dwells there. To think that, you must think he dwells in the home because that's where you believe he should be worshiped. As far as saying God lives inside Venus shows how your understanding of the Bible gets worse by the day. I'm waiting for the day when you say ha, ha, I fooled you all didn't I?
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Post by Grant on Jun 30, 2020 4:33:39 GMT -5
Nathan wrote:
2) Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods.
Enuf's response: Where did Paul stand up in a Pagan temple and preach that? Temples were of God, the ones Paul preached in and Jesus went to were not pagan. So Moses and the Old Testament prophets worshiped a pagan God? Or the true God? Jesus called the Temple has father's house.
The venus God you worship is no doubt a pagan God.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 5:13:17 GMT -5
Nathan wrote: 2) Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods. Enuf's response: Where did Paul stand up in a Pagan temple and preach that? Temples were of God, the ones Paul prea had in and Jesus went to were not pagan. So Moses and the Old Testament prophets worshiped a pagan God? Or the true God? Jesus called the Temple has fathers house. The venus God you worship is no doubt a pagan God. there was only one jewish temple and it was in jerusalem for the jews that i am aware of synagogues are not temples. i believe they did attempt to build an alter once in northern israel but an army showed up and so that ended that. Paul preached in synagogues or the public squares as far as we know he may have preach in a stadium in ephesus. he did travel around and saw other temples/idols to pagan gods though and spoke about them. specifically the one called the unknown god i think it was in athens.
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Post by Grant on Jun 30, 2020 5:27:54 GMT -5
Moses had a portable tabernacle (the dwelling place of God) while wandering in the desert.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 5:34:16 GMT -5
Moses had a portable tabernacle (the dwelling place of God) while wandering in the desert. replaced by solomons temple they never worshipped in both at the same time that i am aware of...
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Post by Grant on Jun 30, 2020 5:36:26 GMT -5
Moses had a portable tabernacle (the dwelling place of God) while wandering in the desert. replaced by solomons temple they never worshipped in both at the same time that i am aware of... They were of God, not pagan.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 5:45:50 GMT -5
replaced by solomons temple they never worshipped in both at the same time that i am aware of... They couldn't have been at the same time. Solomon's temple was in Jerusalem while the portable tabernacle was when they were in the desert. for awhile while solomons temple was being built the tabernacle would have existed as the place to go to for contact with God. it might have been called the tabernacle of david...
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Post by Grant on Jun 30, 2020 5:47:01 GMT -5
I had deleted that last post and wanted to rewrite it after reading the tabernacle was destroyed in 1050 BC by the philistines about the same time they captured the ark of the Covenant for a short time..
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jun 30, 2020 7:54:43 GMT -5
No compensation,apology,counseling,compassion,professional help offered,Pastoring for the brutal sick,cruel CSA(paedophile)victims their families,siblings especially those whos child suffered mental trauma and illness---even SUICIDE.We all remember the Ian Parker case,don't we? Nothing charitable even revoking the Christian Conventions of Victoria's Charity registration. Then again that is a double barrel gun!!! The Redress Scheme can be told we are not an Instatution,they are trying again to avoid court cases for compensation? It is crueler to support this sects ministry in front of the victims of many decades child sexual abuse/molesting by God's True Servants. The Disciples taught in synagoges where ever they could. The widows mites??? it was given to the "WHAT"mmmmm. Our Church give its congregation as others do also regular financial updates,as is required under legislated law. How many 2x2s have demanded financial statements from their ministry? If they were refused it is in some cases a jailable or huge fines offence mmmm. Just a couple of thoughts that have never left my mind Magpie
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2020 9:16:48 GMT -5
Nathan wrote: 2) Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods. Enuf's response: Where did Paul stand up in a Pagan temple and preach that? Temples were of God, the ones Paul preached in and Jesus went to were not pagan. So Moses and the Old Testament prophets worshiped a pagan God? Or the true God? Jesus called the Temple has father's house. The venus God you worship is no doubt a pagan God. You need to READ and study your Bible, enuf.... Read Acts 17:22-25 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens/Greece, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things...
Paul was talking/preaching about the Athens, Greece pagan temples NOT the Children of Israel temple in Jerusalem, where he dwelt on earth for 2000 years, in the Holy of holies. God's presence after Jesus had died and paid the ransom price for our sins, now they live in our hearts NOT in any type of temple. Our bodies are the temples of the Godhead where they want to dwell.
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 1, 2020 7:41:49 GMT -5
A building built for people to gather to be taught,fellowship and worship God is not where God dwells,but in the hearts of those who have faith and worship Him. No different than the property we all gathered in at Dandenong for the annual gospel closure(convention),owned by the CHRISTIAN CONVENTIONS of AUSTRALIA (Reg'd)? Is it Nathan? At least the Churches have an open door not like the Secret Sect conventions,where those crying out for help are not allowed to attend. Now that is not very Christian is it?? Do you know how many times in the Bible instant salvation has touched lives---even some Romans and an Ethiopian. Magpie PS,Paul was in Rome and Corinth to show people that there was a God to know,and He wasn't in the Icons and Temples they had built.
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Post by jetmech on Jul 1, 2020 12:07:36 GMT -5
All I know is according to matthew 21:13 Jesus said " ... my house shall be called THE HOUSE OF PRAYER..."
" ... and the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them..." Matthew 21:1
verse 1 of Matthew 21 clearly says there was a treasury.
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Post by jetmech on Jul 1, 2020 12:14:21 GMT -5
Matthew 21: 14 " ... and the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them ..."
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Post by maryhig on Jul 1, 2020 12:42:26 GMT -5
I think that many churches put too much emphasis on the building, Jesus did teach in the temple, but he was also thrown out of it, although Jesus would have taught anywhere that he could. He would probably also be thrown out of many churches today for preaching the truth.
Jesus didn't care about the building he cares about the heart. And our bodies are the true temple of God. And those who belong to God are living stones of the temple with Jesus as their cornerstone, their guide to follow.
Jesus told his disciples not to worry about the natural temple when they came to show him the buildings of the temple. So Jesus wasn't worried about the building, he's worried about the people which are the true church of God.
Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
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Post by jetmech on Jul 1, 2020 14:28:16 GMT -5
I think that many churches put too much emphasis on the building, Jesus did teach in the temple, but he was also thrown out of it, although Jesus would have taught anywhere that he could. He would probably also be thrown out of many churches today for preaching the truth. Jesus didn't care about the building he cares about the heart. And our bodies are the true temple of God. And those who belong to God are living stones of the temple with Jesus as their cornerstone, their guide to follow. Jesus told his disciples not to worry about the natural temple when they came to show him the buildings of the temple. So Jesus wasn't worried about the building, he's worried about the people which are the true church of God. Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. I agree with you Maryhig. My intentions with my post about temples is in rebuttal to what I was taught as a foster child in the meetings; that Jesus did NOT dwell in temples made with hands, and Paul pointed this out in ACT 7:48. But, I find contradictions in the Bible sometimes. For the longest time I thought Jesus actually taught only in the homes of people in the truth (2x2 meetings). I really believed this, then I find out YEARS later Jesus taught in many places including temples and synagogues. Your point is accepted and taken as regards our bodies being the temple, because that's what the bible clearly says, so it really doesn't matter where we worship GOD as long as we are genuine and sincere. Paradoxically, I most enjoy going to gospel meetings and listening to workers. Workers seem much more sincere and genuine as compared to the Methodist and Catholic ministers I've listened to. I want to give you an example of something Jesus supposedly said that I find to be a contradiction ... John 8:15 Jesus said " ... I judge no man ..." then verse 16 " ... and yet if I judge ..." It's like ... you just said you judge no man ... what do you mean by " ... and yet IF I do judge ...?" Look, either you judge or you judge not. The Bible does say to discern. So, I don't believe it's wrong to judge as long as it's justified. Perhaps, I am taking out of context what Jesus actually meant by his statements ... First he said he judges no man. Ok, I accept that, then when he says " ...and yet if I judge ..." maybe he's talking about judging in general ... judgements that do not include judging men. In that case his statement about not judging men and his judging general things is not a contradiction. I believe a person has to be really in the spirit to truly understand the meanings of bible expressions.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 1, 2020 16:37:33 GMT -5
I think that many churches put too much emphasis on the building, Jesus did teach in the temple, but he was also thrown out of it, although Jesus would have taught anywhere that he could. He would probably also be thrown out of many churches today for preaching the truth. Jesus didn't care about the building he cares about the heart. And our bodies are the true temple of God. And those who belong to God are living stones of the temple with Jesus as their cornerstone, their guide to follow. Jesus told his disciples not to worry about the natural temple when they came to show him the buildings of the temple. So Jesus wasn't worried about the building, he's worried about the people which are the true church of God. Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. I agree with you Maryhig. My intentions with my post about temples is in rebuttal to what I was taught as a foster child in the meetings; that Jesus did NOT dwell in temples made with hands, and Paul pointed this out in ACT 7:48. But, I find contradictions in the Bible sometimes. For the longest time I thought Jesus actually taught only in the homes of people in the truth (2x2 meetings). I really believed this, then I find out YEARS later Jesus taught in many places including temples and synagogues. Your point is accepted and taken as regards our bodies being the temple, because that's what the bible clearly says, so it really doesn't matter where we worship GOD as long as we are genuine and sincere. Paradoxically, I most enjoy going to gospel meetings and listening to workers. Workers seem much more sincere and genuine as compared to the Methodist and Catholic ministers I've listened to. I want to give you an example of something Jesus supposedly said that I find to be a contradiction ... John 8:15 Jesus said " ... I judge no man ..." then verse 16 " ... and yet if I judge ..." It's like ... you just said you judge no man ... what do you mean by " ... and yet IF I do judge ...?" Look, either you judge or you judge not. The Bible does say to discern. So, I don't believe it's wrong to judge as long as it's justified. Perhaps, I am taking out of context what Jesus actually meant by his statements ... First he said he judges no man. Ok, I accept that, then when he says " ...and yet if I judge ..." maybe he's talking about judging in general ... judgements that do not include judging men. In that case his statement about not judging men and his judging general things is not a contradiction. I believe a person has to be really in the spirit to truly understand the meanings of bible expressions. Hi again, regarding Jesus speaking about judging, here are the verses in full John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. In v15, Jesus says that they judge men after the flesh, but he judges no man. He means he judges no man after the flesh, meaning he doesn't look at their outward appearance, he looks at the heart. Then he said on v16 if he judges his judgment is true because he is not alone but the father is with him. And in another chapter Jesus says that he speaks what the father gives him to speak, and that's how Jesus judged, with the righteous judgement. He judged by the word of God, by baring witness to the truth, by speaking and living it out. And those who had seen and heard him were judged by his life and the word he spoke. They were judged by God through Christ, but Jesus himself didn't judge them like we do in the flesh, he judged them by the truth. We can be catty and judgemental in the flesh, judging by what we see with our worldly eyes, but God might see that person differently to what we do. That's why we shouldn't judge after the flesh, but follow Jesus and bring the truth of God to others and live it out in word and deed and leave God to judge the heart. We are right to speak the truth and what is right and wrong, especially to those professing to know God if they are going wrong, but only by the word of God. Sometimes people get above themselves and look down on others and become self righteous, we have to be careful not to do this as we are no better than the next person. It's only God changing our hearts that makes us better. I know that I would be terrible in the flesh if God hadn't helped me to overcome, so I can't talk about anyone. They were saying in our meeting tonight how some people can be dolled up to the nines and have a better heart than many who profess to know God. It's the heart that counts, but once we know God we should be turning from the ways of the world and our outward appearance should also be changing as vanity starts to die within our hearts. That's what's happened to me anyway, as God works on our hearts our lives will start to change inward and outward as our heart is being cleansed through Christ by the power of the Spirit.
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Post by intelchips on Jul 1, 2020 16:47:39 GMT -5
Nathan wrote: 2) Paul said God does NOT dwell in temples made with hands: In Acts 17 Paul stood in the pagans temple and he preached God does NOT dwell in the pagan temples made with men hands. God does NOT dwells in the same temple or place which dedicate to Satan or false gods. Enuf's response: Where did Paul stand up in a Pagan temple and preach that? Temples were of God, the ones Paul prea had in and Jesus went to were not pagan. So Moses and the Old Testament prophets worshiped a pagan God? Or the true God? Jesus called the Temple has fathers house. The venus God you worship is no doubt a pagan God. there was only one jewish temple and it was in jerusalem for the jews that i am aware of synagogues are not temples. i believe they did attempt to build an alter once in northern israel but an army showed up and so that ended that. Paul preached in synagogues or the public squares as far as we know he may have preach in a stadium in ephesus. he did travel around and saw other temples/idols to pagan gods though and spoke about them. specifically the one called the unknown god i think it was in athens. The Sarmatians were north Iranic, similar to the Scythians (Ashkenaz in the Bible) and Cimmerians (Gomer in the Bible). ... They converted to Judaism and make the main contribution to the formation of the Ashkenazic Jews, who still use the old term for Scythians and they looked to Mount Gerizim as their place of worship rather then Jerusalem's Temple Mount
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magpies39plus
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WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Jul 1, 2020 17:59:33 GMT -5
As i mentioned before,The widows mites(pennys)? Where were and to who were they given? Magpie
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