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Post by nathan on Jun 28, 2020 0:22:48 GMT -5
Amen, I concur.... Cushy life of the apostles/workers was promised by Jesus= 100 folds gain, You should have KNOWN this as an ex-2x2 sister worker. Matthew 19: 28-29 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
By cushy life I don’t mean what they are supplied with of natural things What kind of cushy life do you mean?
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 0:27:07 GMT -5
I am sorry that that is your experience in the fellowship but mine is so different, mine is of a Godly joy and a Godly peace. Except that you seem to be confirming what I said - your experience of the Holy Spirit equates to an emotion/feeling? If you are are not feeling joyful or at peace, is the Holy Spirit still with you? Isn't one supposed to feel joy and peace? Is God a God of fear and unhappiness with no peace. Oh by the way my feeling of joy and peace are not because of any human experience as you seem to be suggesting, and of course if one has the Holy Spirit within those things will always be present. If you haven't or don't experience that then I am sad for you because you have missed out on the explainable Joy that the Bible speaks of.
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 0:32:15 GMT -5
Yet funnily enough I find the opposite. If one reads their Bible they will see that the blood of the people is on the workers hands/ they are responsible, They are to keep the way before them. Don't bother in asking for verses. Here's a pertinent verse: But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LordThe Way is not the way of the workers, but the way of the Law of God, written on the hearts of those who love and follow him. No matter which way you want to cut it, following God is about following God, not following the workers. Workers are just fallible human beings. We need preachers of the gospel - yes. But we do not follow them or believe in them. What is the law of God? The workers walk in the way of God just like the workers of old. Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. Do you follow what you Pastor says? or are his/her words of no consequence?
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 0:34:31 GMT -5
Paul wrote to Corinthians believers "Follow Me as I FOLLOW Christ!" If the workers do NOT follow Christ's doctrines/teachings then DO NOT FOLLOW them, ignore them and have our eyes focus on Jesus teachings. Therefore, the workers MUST teach the friends correct doctrine of Christ so, they can lead us in the right Path which leads to Jesus Christ our Savior.
God the Father and Christ have appointed the apostles/workers to be lead us in the Right Path of Christ but if they failed then we must depend on Him and the Holy Spirit to lead us. God will raise up apostles and the friends that have good understanding to lead us back to Jesus truth, way and true doctrines of Christ.
If anyone leads us away from following the true teachings of Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship flee from them. The Holy Spirit will ONLY lead people to follow Jesus New Testament ministry gospel and fellowship.
Nathan, look what it would have meant to follow a Paul the apostle. He was safe to follow. But that would have taken great courage to follow a Paul. Just like it would have taken very great courage to follow Jesus knowing it would lead to very great tribulation. Our ministers have a fairly cushy life, which is nice, but that’s easy. When you were in the work did you want the people to listen to what you were say and follow that? or did you want them to ignore you?
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 0:38:44 GMT -5
Paul wrote to Corinthians believers "Follow Me as I FOLLOW Christ!" If the workers do NOT follow Christ's doctrines/teachings then DO NOT FOLLOW them, ignore them and have our eyes focus on Jesus teachings. Therefore, the workers MUST teach the friends correct doctrine of Christ so, they can lead us in the right Path which leads to Jesus Christ our Savior.
God the Father and Christ have appointed the apostles/workers to be lead us in the Right Path of Christ but if they failed then we must depend on Him and the Holy Spirit to lead us. God will raise up apostles and the friends that have good understanding to lead us back to Jesus truth, way and true doctrines of Christ.
If anyone leads us away from following the true teachings of Jesus New Testament ministry and fellowship flee from them. The Holy Spirit will ONLY lead people to follow Jesus New Testament ministry gospel and fellowship.
Nathan, look what it would have meant to follow a Paul the apostle. He was safe to follow. But that would have taken great courage to follow a Paul. Just like it would have taken very great courage to follow Jesus knowing it would lead to very great tribulation. Our ministers have a fairly cushy life, which is nice, but that’s easy. So how do you think then that they should not have a fairly cushy life which is nice and easy. How would you like to have as a life in the ministry?
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Post by iam on Jun 28, 2020 0:57:36 GMT -5
Nathan, look what it would have meant to follow a Paul the apostle. He was safe to follow. But that would have taken great courage to follow a Paul. Just like it would have taken very great courage to follow Jesus knowing it would lead to very great tribulation. Our ministers have a fairly cushy life, which is nice, but that’s easy. When you were in the work did you want the people to listen to what you were say and follow that? or did you want them to ignore you? Follow Jesus. Not me. I would have had to have been willing for a lot of persecution for anyone to follow me.
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Post by iam on Jun 28, 2020 0:58:57 GMT -5
Nathan, look what it would have meant to follow a Paul the apostle. He was safe to follow. But that would have taken great courage to follow a Paul. Just like it would have taken very great courage to follow Jesus knowing it would lead to very great tribulation. Our ministers have a fairly cushy life, which is nice, but that’s easy. So how do you think then that they should not have a fairly cushy life which is nice and easy. How would you like to have as a life in the ministry? Like Jesus
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Post by iam on Jun 28, 2020 1:29:58 GMT -5
Nathan, look what it would have meant to follow a Paul the apostle. He was safe to follow. But that would have taken great courage to follow a Paul. Just like it would have taken very great courage to follow Jesus knowing it would lead to very great tribulation. Our ministers have a fairly cushy life, which is nice, but that’s easy. So how do you think then that they should not have a fairly cushy life which is nice and easy. How would you like to have as a life in the ministry? The broad way is cushy. Easy peasy. We can take that way in the work as much as we can if we want. You don’t have to follow ALL the scriptures just keep from the blatantly obvious sins. You don’t have to go against the flow other than live an itinerant lifestyle and although some may find that difficult most manage it quite well. Not marrying is also very much possible when settled for that life. Not that I don’t think marriage is good for some in the ministry. But there are many scriptures that we gloss over or dismiss in importance. I am not going to spell it out for you because you can take Jesus’s words just as much as I can and search the scriptures for in them you THINK you have eternal life. Do a very diligent and honest search. It takes time and devotion but no one else can do it for us.
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 1:37:04 GMT -5
So how do you think then that they should not have a fairly cushy life which is nice and easy. How would you like to have as a life in the ministry? Like Jesus In what respect?
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Post by speak on Jun 28, 2020 1:39:11 GMT -5
When you were in the work did you want the people to listen to what you were say and follow that? or did you want them to ignore you? Follow Jesus. Not me. I would have had to have been willing for a lot of persecution for anyone to follow me. I was asking do you want them to follow what you said?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 28, 2020 1:40:41 GMT -5
The women hide their length of hair by putting it in a bun or similar style. Rolling it up, using a false bun, were all ways to hide their length of hair.
I never understood that... "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering" (1 Corinthians 11:15). How is it a glory to her when its hidden in a knot behind her head?
I asked quite a number of workers that very question and not one of them was able to give a coherent answer. In general the answers were garbled bullsh.t.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 28, 2020 2:27:39 GMT -5
I never understood that... "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering" (1 Corinthians 11:15). How is it a glory to her when its hidden in a knot behind her head?
I asked quite a number of workers that very question and not one of them was able to give a coherent answer. In general the answers were garbled bullsh.t. The only answer that I got was that we shouldn't BE " contentious!"
"But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 28, 2020 2:45:51 GMT -5
I asked quite a number of workers that very question and not one of them was able to give a coherent answer. In general the answers were garbled bullsh.t. The only answer that I got was that we shouldn't BE " contentious!"
"But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."I heard that verse quoted when I asked a number of different questions. It is a very convenient verse for the workers to use but what it does show is that their church is based on a legalistic system. It also shows that they do not have clue why these rules have been put in place.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 2:56:27 GMT -5
περιβολαίου (peribolaiou) its my understanding that this word for a covering in the greek can also mean "put up or thrown up or wrapped around"....
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Post by fixit on Jun 28, 2020 3:26:56 GMT -5
Yet funnily enough I find the opposite. If one reads their Bible they will see that the blood of the people is on the workers hands/ they are responsible, They are to keep the way before them. Don't bother in asking for verses. Here's a pertinent verse: But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LordThis is similar: 1 John 2:26 I am writing these things to warn you about those who want to lead you astray.
27 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.The NT use of the word follow usually means something like "come along with" rather than mindless submission.
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Post by iam on Jun 28, 2020 6:27:50 GMT -5
Follow Jesus. Not me. I would have had to have been willing for a lot of persecution for anyone to follow me. I was asking do you want them to follow what you said? What are you trying to get at? No you said “and follow you”. And no I do not recall thinking I wanted people to “listen to me”. That was never something I was hung up on at all. Have a feeling if you would’ve been there that it would have been important to you.
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Post by iam on Jun 28, 2020 6:44:02 GMT -5
Well for one, what is the title of this thread? And that’s just a very small beginning. Maybe if you go through enough “fiery trials” you will understand a bit more. But ignorance is a nice comfortable place to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 6:58:11 GMT -5
Wally you just proved my point about the workers and friends. They are more concerned about rules or judging another person then they are about having the Holy Spirit to help them live a kind, compassionate life lead by the Holy Spirit.
I have know many "professing" men who hate to shave and go days without shaving EXCEPT when the workers are around. I have hear MANY discussions about facial hair between "professing" men. I remember a very heated discussion after meeting one time between an elder and his son. His son wanted to grow a goatee like most of the other young men in the area had at the time. Finally the worker who was at the meeting spoke up and said there are no verses in the bible which speak about facial hair for men. This same worker had a major problem with woman cutting their hair and used to tell them that they should be shorn if they needed to cut their hair.
The wonderful thing about the Holy Spirit is it teaches us in a quite, kind and compassionate way. It convicts us in our heart and helps us to want to be kinder, loving and compassionate toward other people. It helps us to forgive ourselves and others. It gives us hope for ourselves and hope for others. It does all this without those closed to us knowing anything about our struggle to be better people. It is the Holy Spirit that helps us to look at the struggles of others and see their victories in life and not their failures. It also helps us to put our own failures behind us and look forward with HOPE.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 7:10:52 GMT -5
Wally you just proved my point about the workers and friends. They are more concerned about rules or judging another person then they are about having the Holy Spirit to help them live a kind, compassionate life lead by the Holy Spirit. I have know many "professing" men who hate to shave and go days without shaving EXCEPT when the workers are around. I have hear MANY discussions about facial hair between "professing" men. I remember a very heated discussion after meeting one time between an elder and his son. His son wanted to grow a goatee like most of the other young men in the area had at the time. Finally the worker who was at the meeting spoke up and said there are no verses in the bible which speak about facial hair for men. This same worker had a major problem with woman cutting their hair and used to tell them that they should be shorn if they needed to cut their hair. The wonderful thing about the Holy Spirit is it teaches us in a quite, kind and compassionate way. It convicts us in our heart and helps us to want to be kinder, loving and compassionate toward other people. It helps us to forgive ourselves and others. It gives us hope for ourselves and hope for others. It does all this without those closed to us knowing anything about our struggle to be better people. It is the Holy Spirit that helps us to look at the struggles of others and see their victories in life and not their failures. It also helps us to put our own failures behind us and look forward with HOPE. i doubt it....i did not say anything about rules or judging anyone. i simply asked a question about hiding facial hair or hair length...actually the bible has about 15 verses on facial hair...look it up....nice try though
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 28, 2020 7:21:25 GMT -5
Wally you just proved my point about the workers and friends. They are more concerned about rules or judging another person then they are about having the Holy Spirit to help them live a kind, compassionate life lead by the Holy Spirit. I have know many "professing" men who hate to shave and go days without shaving EXCEPT when the workers are around. I have hear MANY discussions about facial hair between "professing" men. I remember a very heated discussion after meeting one time between an elder and his son. His son wanted to grow a goatee like most of the other young men in the area had at the time. Finally the worker who was at the meeting spoke up and said there are no verses in the bible which speak about facial hair for men. This same worker had a major problem with woman cutting their hair and used to tell them that they should be shorn if they needed to cut their hair. The wonderful thing about the Holy Spirit is it teaches us in a quite, kind and compassionate way. It convicts us in our heart and helps us to want to be kinder, loving and compassionate toward other people. It helps us to forgive ourselves and others. It gives us hope for ourselves and hope for others. It does all this without those closed to us knowing anything about our struggle to be better people. It is the Holy Spirit that helps us to look at the struggles of others and see their victories in life and not their failures. It also helps us to put our own failures behind us and look forward with HOPE. i doubt it....i did not say anything about rules or judging anyone. i simply asked a question about hiding facial hair or hair length...actually the bible has about 15 verses on facial hair...look it up....nice try though Verses that mention facial hair, or verses that mention that men should not have facial hair, which is the context of the post by forgotten. Nice try though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 7:29:04 GMT -5
i doubt it....i did not say anything about rules or judging anyone. i simply asked a question about hiding facial hair or hair length...actually the bible has about 15 verses on facial hair...look it up....nice try though Verses that mention facial hair, or verses that mention that men should not have facial hair, which is the context of the post by forgotten. Nice try though. forgottens fear post said nothing about verses...nice try though
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jun 28, 2020 8:46:16 GMT -5
Except that you seem to be confirming what I said - your experience of the Holy Spirit equates to an emotion/feeling? If you are are not feeling joyful or at peace, is the Holy Spirit still with you? Isn't one supposed to feel joy and peace? Is God a God of fear and unhappiness with no peace. Oh by the way my feeling of joy and peace are not because of any human experience as you seem to be suggesting, and of course if one has the Holy Spirit within those things will always be present. If you haven't or don't experience that then I am sad for you because you have missed out on the explainable Joy that the Bible speaks of. That was not what I was suggesting. I was trying to understand your understanding of the nature of the Holy Spirit - whether the only evidence of his presence was these emotions you mentioned. And since I doubt you are joyful all the time, how do you know the Holy Spirit is still with you when you're not? (Serious questions) Since you seemed to take exception to my previous post about my understanding of the Holy Spirit within the two-by-twos, which part did you disagree with? I was just giving an honest assessment. Joy and peace are certainly attributes of the presence of the Holy Spirit, but there are many others which are more active characteristics worked out in the life of a believer - patience, kindness, goodness, self-control, brotherly love. But the Holy Spirit isn't just about these attributes. He is also about convicting of sin, and righteousness, and judgement. Yes, there are Bible verses about that. But you don't seem too keen on Bible verses. Rather than belittling my faith or feeling sorry that I don't have your esoteric knowledge (a common worker strategy, I might add), perhaps you could study some of the Bible verses about the Holy Spirit?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 10:37:12 GMT -5
Wally, I have never looked up the verses which speak about hair. Never felt the need to. It wasn't I who made that comment, I was just passing it along. If you disagree I can give you the worker's name who said it and you can dispute it with him. I do believe you just call him a liar.
Maybe if you were more concerned about the spirit you portray on this board you would take more time reading the posts and give more thoughtful answers.
Maybe you should look up this verse James 1 v 19. I heard it spoken on by a "worldly" preacher the other day and felt condemned in myself because I struggle with this also.
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Post by Dan on Jun 28, 2020 13:50:07 GMT -5
Wally, I have never looked up the verses which speak about hair. Never felt the need to.
Like women hiding the hair they are never suppose to cut? What glory is that?. I never quite got the rule of being clean shaven either. "I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting" (Isaiah 50:6 NIV).
I think the Workers just have trouble reconciling being modest (1 Timothy 2:9) with hair also be glorious (1 Corinthians 11:14-15). How do you conflate the two verses? I personally think a woman with long flowing hair can also be modest. But the verse is probably in relation to spiritual glory, not physical appearance, as it suggest it serves as a veil, whereby she requires no artificial covering.
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Post by Dan on Jun 28, 2020 14:17:39 GMT -5
Isn't one supposed to feel joy and peace? Is God a God of fear and unhappiness with no peace. Oh by the way my feeling of joy and peace are not because of any human experience as you seem to be suggesting, and of course if one has the Holy Spirit within those things will always be present. If you haven't or don't experience that then I am sad for you because you have missed out on the explainable Joy that the Bible speaks of. That was not what I was suggesting. I was trying to understand your understanding of the nature of the Holy Spirit - whether the only evidence of his presence was these emotions you mentioned. And since I doubt you are joyful all the time, how do you know the Holy Spirit is still with you when you're not? (Serious questions) Since you seemed to take exception to my previous post about my understanding of the Holy Spirit within the two-by-twos, which part did you disagree with? I was just giving an honest assessment. Joy and peace are certainly attributes of the presence of the Holy Spirit, but there are many others which are more active characteristics worked out in the life of a believer - patience, kindness, goodness, self-control, brotherly love. But the Holy Spirit isn't just about these attributes. He is also about convicting of sin, and righteousness, and judgement. Yes, there are Bible verses about that. But you don't seem too keen on Bible verses. Rather than belittling my faith or feeling sorry that I don't have your esoteric knowledge (a common worker strategy, I might add), perhaps you could study some of the Bible verses about the Holy Spirit?
I think its a spiritual peace, not a constant life of puppy dogs, lollypops, sunshine and rainbows . Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). But he also said, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27). The HS is also with believers during sad & tough times, that's the "Comforter" aspect (John 14:26). It can't teach us 'all things' without mixing good & bad experiences, we need the Yin and Yang comparison, I personally learn more from hardships than when the good times roll. Spiritual peace doesn't exempt us from some harsh physical realities, it just gives us strength to weather the storms.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 16:13:32 GMT -5
Wally, I have never looked up the verses which speak about hair. Never felt the need to. It wasn't I who made that comment, I was just passing it along. If you disagree I can give you the worker's name who said it and you can dispute it with him. I do believe you just call him a liar. Maybe if you were more concerned about the spirit you portray on this board you would take more time reading the posts and give more thoughtful answers. Maybe you should look up this verse James 1 v 19. I heard it spoken on by a "worldly" preacher the other day and felt condemned in myself because I struggle with this also. sounds like you need to take your own advise.... the verses are there whether hes a liar or not depends on if he admits to it or not....
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 28, 2020 20:19:58 GMT -5
Verses that mention facial hair, or verses that mention that men should not have facial hair, which is the context of the post by forgotten. Nice try though. forgottens fear post said nothing about verses...nice try though No one said his post said anything about verses. YOURS did. You jump so quick to respond in defence, you don't even read things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 21:23:54 GMT -5
forgottens fear post said nothing about verses...nice try though No one said his post said anything about verses. YOURS did. You jump so quick to respond in defence, you don't even read things. not in my original post to the fear post...and my verse post was in response to YOUR post saying the worker said there was nothing in the bible about facial hair...nice try though
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