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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 0:12:19 GMT -5
Wally so is a "demanded"celabate and Preacher only ministry!!! You must explain a scriptural/biblical reason what is false about Shane's teaching,thanks,,,,Magpie 1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china...
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Apr 29, 2020 1:55:32 GMT -5
Wally,1 Corinthians 9 v,5-6. Sorry but in 40 years you have not got to these verses,I am also a slow reader but I feel sorry that you are slower than me...Magpie.PS If there is no weakness in Jesus what harm is there in listening in a bit of some one else's biblical studies.Don't forget Jesus schooling he was a good Hebrew Boy. So listen won't hurt if you are strong in your faith....Magpie
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magpies39plus
Senior Member
WHY? Does quoting relevant scripture send the 2x2;s into sometimes a nasty response??
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Post by magpies39plus on Apr 29, 2020 2:03:21 GMT -5
Wally,Why do you kick against the pricks? Why were allowed to lie about no name for so many decades? Remember the only answers must have Biblical support mustn't they. Magpie PS I feel you need to be placed on a prayer chain to help you see,the Holy(God'S) Spirit is real He will guide you,but let Him.. With Love.
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Post by Grant on Apr 29, 2020 2:16:19 GMT -5
Wally so is a "demanded"celabate and Preacher only ministry!!! You must explain a scriptural/biblical reason what is false about Shane's teaching,thanks,,,,Magpie 1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china... Shane and nor are the workers apostles. Where does it say in the Bible that anyone who preaches or teaches from the Bible has to be celibate etc. If the workers used the ministry in the Bible they will see there are different forms of ministries as magpie quoted The people Nathan quotes are not celebrate and where does it say they have to be? Nothing says the apostles weren't married either.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 4:09:09 GMT -5
1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china... Shane and nor are the workers apostles. Where does it say in the Bible that anyone who preaches or teaches from the Bible has to be celibate etc. If the workers used the ministry in the Bible they will see there are different forms of ministries as magpie quoted The people Nathan quotes are not celebrate and where does it say they have to be? Nothing says the apostles weren't married either. there are a few clues in the bible as to what went on some were spoken some were examples.. one clue was when Jesus spoke of those who would be eunuchs for the Lord another clue would be when Paul said to the unmarried that they would remain even as he was those two clues are for those of you who need it to be said... the primary clue is my point #1 that clue is for people who don't need words but use examples.... there is another clue in revelation but i'll let you study your bible and find that one for yourself....
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Post by nathan on Apr 29, 2020 9:32:25 GMT -5
1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china... Shane and nor are the workers apostles. Where does it say in the Bible that anyone who preaches or teaches from the Bible has to be celibate etc. If the workers used the ministry in the Bible they will see there are different forms of ministries as magpie quoted The people Nathan quotes are not celebrate and where does it say they have to be? Nothing says the apostles weren't married either. Jesus was a celibate preacher and he mentioned this to His apostles in Matthew 19:10-12 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Jesus went on to say Matthew 19:27-29 7 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Who do you think the apostles/workers should follow the pattern of Jesus/unmarried or Peter/married as preacher of the gospel?
Most of the apostles through the centuries have follow Jesus example as an unmarried for the gospel's sake so they can dedicate their lives to care for God's sheep and lambs without any families of their own to care for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 13:50:58 GMT -5
Wally,1 Corinthians 9 v,5-6. Sorry but in 40 years you have not got to these verses,I am also a slow reader but I feel sorry that you are slower than me...Magpie.PS If there is no weakness in Jesus what harm is there in listening in a bit of some one else's biblical studies.Don't forget Jesus schooling he was a good Hebrew Boy. So listen won't hurt if you are strong in your faith....Magpie listening to a false preacher AGAIN is just garbage in garbage out....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 13:52:19 GMT -5
Wally,Why do you kick against the pricks? Why were allowed to lie about no name for so many decades? Remember the only answers must have Biblical support mustn't they. Magpie PS I feel you need to be placed on a prayer chain to help you see,the Holy(God'S) Spirit is real He will guide you,but let Him.. With Love. rejecting a false preacher is not kicking against the pricks....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2020 14:28:58 GMT -5
Wally sure wants to back off that 2x2 bias, its up on maximum. It gives people a distorted view of reality. Thank God many of us were able to get away from that mindset and find freedom.
Reality: The state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
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Post by xna on Apr 29, 2020 14:54:50 GMT -5
Reality: The state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. Subjective reality - something exists as perceived in your mind. Virtual reality - something appear to exist, but is a simulation. Objective reality - something exists independent of your mind, & and is still true even if it is outside of your own perception
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Post by chuck on Apr 30, 2020 8:28:23 GMT -5
I remember well wally, your repsonse was something along the lines off "there was so much wrong I dont even know where to begin". And that was it, more hollow words. You couldn't even name one, you didn't even begin!. You probably didnt even let the dust settle after watching it to reply, without ever bothering to fact check anything separate from 2x2 doctrine that was founded by someone a mere hundred years ago and passed on with zero resesearch in the process till this very day, hence your response just like today, Its B.S just because I say its B.S. Today you bettered that by calling it B.S with not having the foggiest what was said. Didnt listen to a word. Not one. That's so rediculous its not funny. And then you think your not being a fool by calling Shane's unwatched commentary B.S but lapping up the workers unfounded words. i'll take a worker over a false preacher like shane any day of the week but you by all means go ahead and continue to listen to him and dig yourself into a deeper hole..... I know you would wally, that's the problem. You will accept the word from someone who has self appointed special powers, has zero understanding about the Hebrew people/culture/history/language and let them control your life with the fear of hell lingering in the background if you stray from them. It's like me taking a Boeing 747 to the self appointed Boeing747 mechanic because he's told me he and his special band of mechanics are the only people who can fix a 747 and if you don't go to him your 747 will crash without a doubt. Shane Willard plus many others, even some workers, recognize there is no one super duper special 747 band of mechanics. So they actually ask seek and knock, and find/realise the special band of mechanics are really just self appointed and they barely knew anything about 747's apart from the name and that there is all different types/bands of 747 mechanics that have actually learnt in depth about 747's. Shane and alike teach from the roots of the bible and don't just dream stuff up. There is substance to their teaching Yes they may not be right all the time, but they attempt to ground there teachings which shows if you would lower yourself to their level and actually listen and research before judging, they dont just make stuff up, pie in the sky stuff like the majority of the workers do. No foundation before William Irvine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 9:14:18 GMT -5
There only wonky because you don't agree. If you cared to look you would see his wonky ideas may be founded in more truth than your own. Yours were founded only 100 years ago. His come from the original founders, the Hebrew people!. my BS detector is pretty good these days for religious issues.... I’d say it’s still not as good as mine. 😉 Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 12:30:32 GMT -5
i'll take a worker over a false preacher like shane any day of the week but you by all means go ahead and continue to listen to him and dig yourself into a deeper hole..... I know you would wally, that's the problem. You will accept the word from someone who has self appointed special powers, has zero understanding about the Hebrew people/culture/history/language and let them control your life with the fear of hell lingering in the background if you stray from them. It's like me taking a Boeing 747 to the self appointed Boeing747 mechanic because he's told me he and his special band of mechanics are the only people who can fix a 747 and if you don't go to him your 747 will crash without a doubt. Shane Willard plus many others, even some workers, recognize there is no one super duper special 747 band of mechanics. So they actually ask seek and knock, and find/realise the special band of mechanics are really just self appointed and they barely knew anything about 747's apart from the name and that there is all different types/bands of 747 mechanics that have actually learnt in depth about 747's. Shane and alike teach from the roots of the bible and don't just dream stuff up. There is substance to their teaching Yes they may not be right all the time, but they attempt to ground there teachings which shows if you would lower yourself to their level and actually listen and research before judging, they dont just make stuff up, pie in the sky stuff like the majority of the workers do. No foundation before William Irvine. actually i've worked for Boeing and there are teams of mechanics that are better than others this is why i don't fly anymore....like i said you continue to dig that hole and good luck getting out of it...
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Post by chuck on Apr 30, 2020 20:08:01 GMT -5
I know you would wally, that's the problem. You will accept the word from someone who has self appointed special powers, has zero understanding about the Hebrew people/culture/history/language and let them control your life with the fear of hell lingering in the background if you stray from them. It's like me taking a Boeing 747 to the self appointed Boeing747 mechanic because he's told me he and his special band of mechanics are the only people who can fix a 747 and if you don't go to him your 747 will crash without a doubt. Shane Willard plus many others, even some workers, recognize there is no one super duper special 747 band of mechanics. So they actually ask seek and knock, and find/realise the special band of mechanics are really just self appointed and they barely knew anything about 747's apart from the name and that there is all different types/bands of 747 mechanics that have actually learnt in depth about 747's. Shane and alike teach from the roots of the bible and don't just dream stuff up. There is substance to their teaching Yes they may not be right all the time, but they attempt to ground there teachings which shows if you would lower yourself to their level and actually listen and research before judging, they dont just make stuff up, pie in the sky stuff like the majority of the workers do. No foundation before William Irvine. actually i've worked for Boeing and there are teams of mechanics that are better than others this is why i don't fly anymore....like i said you continue to dig that hole and good luck getting out of it... Nice pivot. Usually happens when you can't have a original thought, has to come from the workers hey!.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 21:05:12 GMT -5
actually i've worked for Boeing and there are teams of mechanics that are better than others this is why i don't fly anymore....like i said you continue to dig that hole and good luck getting out of it... Nice pivot. Usually happens when you can't have a original thought, has to come from the workers hey!. as with most of what you say your little analogy fell flat...nice try though
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Post by chuck on May 1, 2020 2:51:59 GMT -5
Nice pivot. Usually happens when you can't have a original thought, has to come from the workers hey!. as with most of what you say your little analogy fell flat...nice try though Fell flat because you worked at boeing and know some dodgy mechanics. It has nothing to do with the context of the discussion. You are expert at pivoting.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 10:47:50 GMT -5
as with most of what you say your little analogy fell flat...nice try though Fell flat because you worked at boeing and know some dodgy mechanics. It has nothing to do with the context of the discussion. You are expert at pivoting. dig deeper there chuck i can still see your head sticking out of that hole....
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2020 14:10:32 GMT -5
Shane and nor are the workers apostles. Where does it say in the Bible that anyone who preaches or teaches from the Bible has to be celibate etc. If the workers used the ministry in the Bible they will see there are different forms of ministries as magpie quoted The people Nathan quotes are not celebrate and where does it say they have to be? Nothing says the apostles weren't married either. Jesus was a celibate preacher and he mentioned this to His apostles in Matthew 19:10-12 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
Jesus went on to say Matthew 19:27-29 7 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Who do you think the apostles/workers should follow the pattern of Jesus/unmarried or Peter/married as preacher of the gospel?
Most of the apostles through the centuries have follow Jesus example as an unmarried for the gospel's sake so they can dedicate their lives to care for God's sheep and lambs without any families of their own to care for.
1 Corinthians 9:5 "Don’t we have the right to bring a believing wife with us as the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers do, and as Peter does?" 1 Corinthians 9:5.5 "And Nathan did rebuke Paul saying, 'Not so Paul! Most apostles are unmarried, and so shall they be through the centuries. It mattereth not that our righteousness hinges on copying the forum of the first century church whose apostles were married - we shall use the Catholic pattern of celibacy if it suits our argument.'" 9:5.55 "And lo, Nathan didst show by many unrefutable proofs, fonts, colors, and YouTube links that Paul was wrong about the early apostles being married. And all did marvel, except for the wives the apostles had brought with them, who did roll their eyes.
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Post by nathan on May 1, 2020 15:23:36 GMT -5
The Vaudois/Waldenses apostles were Paul's converts and his followers in Rome 66-68 A. D. And very few of them were married due to hardship and moving from different places/homes constantly and it wasn't good if they had children.
Therefore, Most of the Vaudois apostles/workers were unmarried for 1800 years prior to the Faith Mission 1886 and 2x2 unmarried workers in 1898.
The RCC claimed Peter married apostle was their first pope, they didn't follow his example but Jesus as their pattern as a celibate preacher/pope/bishop/priest of the gospel.
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Post by chuck on May 1, 2020 19:05:19 GMT -5
Fell flat because you worked at boeing and know some dodgy mechanics. It has nothing to do with the context of the discussion. You are expert at pivoting. dig deeper there chuck i can still see your head sticking out of that hole.... I will wally, because one day you may address something I say straight forward.
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Post by Grant on May 6, 2020 15:18:00 GMT -5
Wally so is a "demanded"celabate and Preacher only ministry!!! You must explain a scriptural/biblical reason what is false about Shane's teaching,thanks,,,,Magpie 1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china... You said you are not exclusive on the thread Sister worker preaching in New Zealand nursing home, but does this not show you are exclusive, wally?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 15:47:35 GMT -5
1. one has to only look at Jesus for an example of celibacy for the ministry. 2. we know that Peter was married but there are no records for any of the others the only thing you have is speculation. 3. MAYBE Barnabas and Paul were married but again there are no records of such your left with speculation again. 4. yes some of the apostles had homes that does not mean they were married. to trash what shane has said would require me to watch his videos AGAIN and wade through mountians of horse pucky, not gonna do it for you or anyone else or for all the tea in china... You said you are not exclusive on the thread Sister worker preaching in New Zealand nursing home, but does this not show you are exclusive, wally? we were talking about shane specifically not christiaity in general. i've posted many thread of other preachers whom i agree with at least somewhat on different issues...thats not exclusive thats smart....
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