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Post by nathan on Apr 25, 2020 1:04:51 GMT -5
I always thought one of the rules was the Gospel had to be preached 2x2. I guess because there is a shortage of Workers, then 1x1 is OK. Peter preached alone when he went to the house of the centurion Cornelius Acts 10. Ananias preached and healed Saul/Paul preached alone. Paul preached alone sometimes. John the Baptist and Christ preached alone.
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Post by speak on Apr 25, 2020 1:05:02 GMT -5
I always thought one of the rules was the Gospel had to be preached 2x2. I guess because there is a shortage of Workers, then 1x1 is OK. You know what thought though don't? He thought his leg was out of bed, so he got out and put it back in again.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 25, 2020 1:06:44 GMT -5
Crikey, no more sentry duty for you then. Or Sentry Hill Port. I always have swig of port before going to bed puts a nice glow on my sleep Lucky you. Any Port in a storm will do. Unfortunately Sentry Hill is no longer available as they went bust years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 1:32:26 GMT -5
Well if 1x1 is OK, don't flog the 2x2 line.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 25, 2020 1:46:02 GMT -5
Well if 1x1 is OK, don't flog the 2x2 line. Times are tough, they are going to be downsizing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 8:02:19 GMT -5
Because that is the message which workers preach. I never met a worker who preached a different message. Mission. Convention. Funeral. The message was always consistent, albeit with varying degrees of subtlety. Matt10 Funny enough I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship. [ “if you do not profess through a worker like me before you die you will go to hell”] to me that's a load of old poppycock. No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10
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Post by nathan on Apr 25, 2020 9:55:55 GMT -5
Well if 1x1 is OK, don't flog the 2x2 line. You must understand 1 is ok, 2x2, or 3 are according to the scriptures. Jesus sent the apostles in pairs/TWO and they have continued to go in pairs in Acts, and through the centuries and sometimes alone or in threesome due to circumstances.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 25, 2020 11:15:42 GMT -5
Throughout the history of Christianity, Jesus' threats of eternal torture have been the most effective recruiting strategy in all of human history. Without this, Christians would have stayed an obscure sect before dying out. Periods of "revival" like the Great Awakening have been characterized by the fire and brimstone preaching. Many of these sermons like "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" are considered the greatest preaching ever. The workers are no different than anyone else. When they are about to test a meeting, most of the preaching will be trying to frighten people with Jesus' threats of hell and eternal torment of sinners by the Lamb. Everyone who has attended a mission knows that. And it works. They weren't threats, they are a reality. All depends on which Christians you are talking about? For myself it is not because any perceived threat but for the love of. I wonder is that a new concept for you? Well I hear for love of Christ is why we make our choice. So you must be on one of those other planets that get spoken of from time to time on here. Reminds me of a woman married to a serial killer. She knows full well that he is brutally torturing and mutilating victims in the basement, the their happy marriage is "all about love".
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 25, 2020 12:44:23 GMT -5
They weren't threats, they are a reality. All depends on which Christians you are talking about? For myself it is not because any perceived threat but for the love of. I wonder is that a new concept for you? Well I hear for love of Christ is why we make our choice. So you must be on one of those other planets that get spoken of from time to time on here. Reminds me of a woman married to a serial killer. She knows full well that he is brutally torturing and mutilating victims in the basement, the their happy marriage is "all about love". That's an odd analogy but very apt.
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Post by snow on Apr 25, 2020 13:27:33 GMT -5
Hang on I will need to remove the slippers. Ok, I've got it, I've got it. The answer is trinity. You win the Darwin prize... ha!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 25, 2020 13:32:44 GMT -5
Ok, I've got it, I've got it. The answer is trinity. You win the Darwin prize... ha! Ta, but I don't qualify.
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Post by snow on Apr 25, 2020 13:40:23 GMT -5
You win the Darwin prize... ha! Ta, but I don't qualify. Depends on the definition. As you well know on here definitions can be fairly, shall we say, fluid...
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Post by Grant on Apr 25, 2020 15:11:50 GMT -5
Funny enough I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship. [ “if you do not profess through a worker like me before you die you will go to hell”] to me that's a load of old poppycock. No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 The message has always been you have to profess through a worker to be saved. Those who 'professed' at another church have to re profess through a worker. The workers are considered the only true servants of God. The same applies to Baptism. Occasionally an exception is made if someone dies and we're told no one knows their heart.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 25, 2020 15:22:52 GMT -5
No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 The message has always been you have to profess through a worker to be saved. Those who 'professed' at another church have to re profess through a worker. The workers are considered the only true servants of God. The same applies to Baptism. Occasionally an exception is made if someone dies and we're told no one knows their heart. The workers have some glib answers. That being one of them. But it's the saying of those glib answers that raises more questions and honest people will start questioning.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Apr 25, 2020 17:41:20 GMT -5
Funny enough I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship. [ “if you do not profess through a worker like me before you die you will go to hell”] to me that's a load of old poppycock. @@@@ I guess this is meant to appeal to outsiders who might be attracted to the fellowship but not agree with this belief. I understand the desire behind this comment.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 25, 2020 18:33:46 GMT -5
But it IS INDEED the bottom line.
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Post by xna on Apr 25, 2020 18:50:30 GMT -5
When I professed I asked why did I need to be baptized again. Was told only those who go as Jesus sent preachers 2x2 were the ones from god. I was not saved before.
The “tell” is if a sect requires re-baptism, then they think they are the only way to be saved.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 25, 2020 18:56:11 GMT -5
When I professed I asked why did I need to be baptized again. Was told only those who go as Jesus sent preachers 2x2 were the ones from god. I was not saved before. The “tell” is if a sect requires re-baptism, then they think they are the only way to be saved. I apologize for saying this -- but there's a used care salesman parallel to this situation.
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Post by speak on Apr 25, 2020 21:10:10 GMT -5
They weren't threats, they are a reality. All depends on which Christians you are talking about? For myself it is not because any perceived threat but for the love of. I wonder is that a new concept for you? Well I hear for love of Christ is why we make our choice. So you must be on one of those other planets that get spoken of from time to time on here. Reminds me of a woman married to a serial killer. She knows full well that he is brutally torturing and mutilating victims in the basement, the their happy marriage is "all about love". What a happy way of looking at it.
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Post by speak on Apr 25, 2020 21:14:50 GMT -5
Funny enough I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship. [ “if you do not profess through a worker like me before you die you will go to hell”] to me that's a load of old poppycock. No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 What sort of pillock are you? I said I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship, and you come back with, No one ever admits to hearing that being said. How on earth would you know what I have heard or not heard? So why would I believe anything you say, to me it is all horse........... So you can go off and play with the fairies in you own mind.
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Post by speak on Apr 25, 2020 21:17:51 GMT -5
No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 The message has always been you have to profess through a worker to be saved. Those who 'professed' at another church have to re profess through a worker. The workers are considered the only true servants of God. The same applies to Baptism. Occasionally an exception is made if someone dies and we're told no one knows their heart. Who were you told your profession was in? Who were you told your baptism was in?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 21:43:44 GMT -5
I think it is all about trust. The Workers have to see you profess and baptise you. They are not going to believe that it may have been done in another Church. After all it is an exclusive club they have to be sure you have correct initiation. Plus if it goes wrong and it wasn't done correctly, you could wind up in Hell, they would also get the chop for not making sure the job was done right.
A very responsible position, but you can Trust the Workers. They have a much better credit rating than used car salesmen. They are "Servants of God".
Hey come to think of it they forgot to give me a certificate to say I had passed and was in. They did make a note in the front of my Bible, that is probably proof.
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Post by xna on Apr 25, 2020 21:58:58 GMT -5
I think it is all about trust. The Workers have to see you profess and baptise you. They are not going to believe that it may have been done in another Church. After all it is an exclusive club they have to be sure you have correct initiation. Plus if it goes wrong and it wasn't done correctly, you could wind up in Hell, they would also get the chop for not making sure the job was done right. A very responsible position, but you can Trust the Workers. They have a much better credit rating than used car salesmen. They are "Servants of God". Hey come to think of it they forgot to give me a certificate to say I had passed and was in. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesse, Seventh Day Adventists, & the2x2 practice rebaptism. de-baptizism
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 22:09:13 GMT -5
I think it is all about trust. The Workers have to see you profess and baptise you. They are not going to believe that it may have been done in another Church. After all it is an exclusive club they have to be sure you have correct initiation. Plus if it goes wrong and it wasn't done correctly, you could wind up in Hell, they would also get the chop for not making sure the job was done right. A very responsible position, but you can Trust the Workers. They have a much better credit rating than used car salesmen. They are "Servants of God". Hey come to think of it they forgot to give me a certificate to say I had passed and was in. Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesse, Seventh Day Adventists, & the2x2 practice rebaptism. de-baptizism de-baptism, what a horrible ritual...
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 25, 2020 22:24:21 GMT -5
No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 What sort of pillock are you? I said I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship, and you come back with, No one ever admits to hearing that being said. How on earth would you know what I have heard or not heard? So why would I believe anything you say, to me it is all horse........... So you can go off and play with the fairies in you own mind. This is how disagreements become personal attacks. Could you not have made your point without adding the big red comments about the person? I actually believe what he said was true about most people. Allow yourself to be an exception.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 0:09:58 GMT -5
I apologize for saying this -- but there's a used care salesman parallel to this situation. At least a lot of states have a lemon law for used cars. An apology is probably in order for saying that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 2:07:40 GMT -5
No one ever admits to hearing that being said. Whether this is down to one’s naivety, one’s poor hearing, one being unable to grasp the subtlety of the preaching or one being in a state of denial, I know not. What I do know is that it is a fundamental part of 2x2 doctrine (and has been since the beginning) and that the official 2x2 approach is always to deny it. It’s all part of a policy whereby the 2x2 church seeks to portray itself publicly as something that it isn’t with a view to making the church appear less unattractive to the outsider, at least in the early stages of anyone showing an interest. (Denying the true history was another element of the same policy.) The policy is to deliver this key message slowly and subtly in a series of gospel missions until the listener grasps it. That’s part of the reason why members are asked to bring outsiders to missions rather than proselytising themselves. And of course once they’ve grasped it and accepted it, the policy is then to lay it on strong with the familiar stories of people dying in road traffic accidents on the way home from missions and then singing morbid hymns with lines such as ‘life at best is very brief’ and ‘the chord of life may snap’ in the hope that they buckle and submit. I didn’t manage to clock up 40 years thankfully but I was sufficiently tuned in during my 25 to recognise the message and I am sure that if you send me half a dozen sermons I could still spot it in there even now. Matt10 What sort of pillock are you? I said I don't think I have ever heard or read that being said, 40+ years in the fellowship, and you come back with, No one ever admits to hearing that being said. How on earth would you know what I have heard or not heard? So why would I believe anything you say, to me it is all horse........... So you can go off and play with the fairies in you own mind. I don’t think I suggested that you believe anything I say to you. What people believe is a matter for them. I’m simply pointing out what the doctrine of the 2x2 church is based on my 25 years experience. And the doctrine as I have presented it is entirely consistent with the views of others who have posted here. I think therefore it is clear what the 2x2 doctrine is. It’s if you do not profess through a 2x2 worker you will go to hell. Of course it looks pretty unsavoury when it’s put as bluntly as that which is why it’s usually delivered with a fair degree of subtlety. So subtle that if you weren’t listening carefully you might miss it entirely. Matt10
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 26, 2020 2:38:00 GMT -5
In my 40 years or so, I have also not heard it preached.
The test though is if someone who was say, baptised in the local Presbyterian church, and wanted to profess. In general ( and I am aware of some exceptions to this) that person would not be permitted to take part in a meeting, and would not be permitted to have communion in the 2 * 2 church unless baptised in it by a worker. Any previous baptisms or declarations in another church are considered null and void. This would be found out usually by asking the question, rather than it being preached publicly, and is something I have never been happy with.
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