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Post by nathan on Apr 21, 2020 3:27:40 GMT -5
Studying is very different to putting your bum on a pew. haha... What are you saying here? I don't understand your down under language...
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Post by nathan on Apr 21, 2020 3:28:13 GMT -5
Nathan you completely confuse me. One post you are ancient, then next one you go modern. You will find that most people are now modern in their thinking, you deserve top marks for trying to push what they were doing 100 years ago. I think most of us would agree you are certainly trying. In Deuteronomy 19:14 we read, “Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour’s landmark, which they of old time have set.” Again in Deuteronomy 27:17 we read, “Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour’s landmark.” We read again in Job 24:2, “Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof.” Proverbs 22:28 says, “Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.”
Proverbs 23:10 says again, “Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the father... Don't REMOVE the ancient New Testament teachings of Jesus Christ and the 1st century apostles... If it ain't broken don't FIX it. When God the Father and Christ establish their Old and New Testament teachings it's forever! it doesn't need to change because it works in every generation, under any types of gov't that rule, and any cultures of any nation in the world through the ages.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 21, 2020 3:34:18 GMT -5
Nathan you completely confuse me. One post you are ancient, then next one you go modern. You will find that most people are now modern in their thinking, you deserve top marks for trying to push what they were doing 100 years ago. I think most of us would agree you are certainly trying. Very trying!
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Post by Grant on Apr 21, 2020 3:54:18 GMT -5
Studying is very different to putting your bum on a pew. haha... What are you saying here? I don't understand your down under language...Do you believe those who read about the 2x2s know as much about it as those who have belonged to the group? That is what redback is saying. As he also said you're mixing the old with the new when you want. The ancient is old, the internet is new. You claim to be a worker and preaching the gospel on the internet but at the same time are not doing what you claim those who preach the gospel should do. You're a fake preacher / worker according to you. You are now comparing other church ministers with the workers when it suits you by saying aren't some of them divorced? No I don't know any who are divorced or any church I have attended who would accept a divorced person into ministry. Luke 22 is about more than swords. It's about saying that the instructions in Matthew 10 no longer apply as he was leaving them. It speaks about taking scrip, purse and sword. You're one mixed up dude, makes me think of the verses how you can't mix old wine with new. You take what you want from anywhere that suits. You even promote those you claim are false preachers when it suits. Of course people would call someone who claims to be Jesus from venus crazy because that is not the Jesus in the Bible but a false Jesus. Apparently Jesus will he easy to recognize if and when he comes. No confusing him as some alien from venus.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 3:56:26 GMT -5
But Nathan you break away from all that and tell us Christ would use TMB. You say he would give us baddies a hard time. I don't think so, he would enjoy a Guinness with me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 3:57:39 GMT -5
Nathan you completely confuse me. One post you are ancient, then next one you go modern. You will find that most people are now modern in their thinking, you deserve top marks for trying to push what they were doing 100 years ago. I think most of us would agree you are certainly trying. Very trying! Watch out Curly, I wasn't game.
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Post by Grant on Apr 21, 2020 3:58:43 GMT -5
Yes he mixed with publicans redback but we'll for get the sinner part of that verse. He might even turn a glass of water into wine for you.
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Post by mountain on Apr 21, 2020 4:50:01 GMT -5
haha... What are you saying here? I don't understand your down under language... Do you believe those who read about the 2x2s know as much about it as those who have belonged to the group? That is what redback is saying. As he also said you're mixing the old with the new when you want. The ancient is old, the internet is new. You claim to be a worker and preaching the gospel on the internet but at the same time are not doing what you claim those who preach the gospel should do. You're a fake preacher / worker according to you. You are now comparing other church ministers with the workers when it suits you by saying aren't some of them divorced? No I don't know any who are divorced or any church I have attended who would accept a divorced person into ministry. Luke 22 is about more than swords. It's about saying that the instructions in Matthew 10 no longer apply as he was leaving them. It speaks about taking scrip, purse and sword. You're one mixed up dude, makes me think of the verses how you can't mix old wine with new. You take what you want from anywhere that suits. You even promote those you claim are false preachers when it suits. Of course people would call someone who claims to be Jesus from venus crazy because that is not the Jesus in the Bible but a false Jesus. Apparently Jesus will he easy to recognize if and when he comes. No confusing him as some alien from venus. In my opinion, in Matthew 10, Jesus is dealing with a short term commission where expedience was a key issue. In Luke 22 he is dealing with an indefinite commission and this is why Matt 10 was superceded by Luke 22. However, Luke 22 has itself been superceded by Nate 1. That's the order of things. Simple. Very easy to understand.
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Post by mountain on Apr 21, 2020 4:54:20 GMT -5
They’re not married and we most definitely don’t feel like they’re attending to the needs of the flock. We have felt abandoned and neglected.....unless we give them money. You've hit the nail on the head. A great pastor who reaches out and cares for people has nothing to do with whether they are married or not. I've seen married people who are wonderful pastors - I've seen the opposite. I've seen some workers who are good pastors - I've seen plenty who aren't. I've also seen unmarried pastors/ministers who reach out and care for people - others not so. A lot depends on the person's personality - some people are just natural at reaching out and caring for others and coupled with the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives, it is a joy to see. On the topic of "workers today have lost their passion" topic, I suspect many have simply because they are comfortable and largely focussed on retaining the people they have. In my own case, some of my ancestors were Christians but they professed and joined the 2x2 church. A lot of that was to do with the zeal/passion of the early workers who would come into country areas, set up camp in a particular area and hold meetings every night in the area. This contrasted with the local church minister who might only visit (via horse/sulky in the early days) those country areas once a month or every few weeks. In a church today, if the ministry team is only focussed on retaining existing people the church community will decline in number. But if they are focussed on outreach, connecting with the local community, bringing new people into the church community via a wide range of initiatives, the community will grow. It seems in the main that God rewards the efforts of those who strive to uphold the name of the Lord and are passionate about doing that. The insular nature of the group works against it. This culture stiffles pastoral outreach. Insularity becomes a comfort zone.
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Post by ForeverFree on Apr 21, 2020 5:10:56 GMT -5
So if it is not ok for a divorced professing man or woman to speak in a meeting, how is it ok that they sit and listen to a divorced man or woman preach at them from the platform?
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Post by Annan on Apr 21, 2020 6:25:30 GMT -5
well peter was married and probably barnabas and paul so they can be married in my estimation... BUT I like what the workers have said about the matter in the past... 1. if your not married you can concentrate on the flock better than if your married 2. you can't really attend to your family as well if your married and a worker 3. Jesus wasn't married, no matter how revisionist try to make him married I agree Jesus had NEVER been a married man, he wanted to set the BEST example for most of the apostles/workers to follow as an Itinerant preacher of the gospel. However, God called Peter who was married with no children and a few other apostles. It seems John, Matthew, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas and many other apostles follow Jesus example as unmarried apostle and they didn't follow Peter example as a married apostle.
Jesus said seek ye FIRST for the kingdom of God...
You have claimed many times that you are an internet worker. Does that not go against scripture when it comes to being married and being in the work? You spend quite a lot of time on TMB. How is it possible that you have any time for your family?
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Post by iam on Apr 21, 2020 7:32:33 GMT -5
So if it is not ok for a divorced professing man or woman to speak in a meeting, how is it ok that they sit and listen to a divorced man or woman preach at them from the platform? I have heard a few different takes regarding divorce. Some think that divorce is accepted but not remarriage. Have heard that others accept remarriage if the divorce wasn’t that person’s fault (their spouse left them for someone else). Have heard others say they left it up to the individual to decide according to their understanding of what Jesus taught. Also apparently if someone professes that never knew this way before and they are divorced and remarried then they are allowed to take part in meetings because they didn’t know about what Jesus taught about divorce before then. I find the whole thing very confusing. If divorce and remarriage are so unacceptable what about fornication? And serial fornication. That’s a much bigger occurrence than mere divorce. And yet these are the people that Jesus was a friend to, much to the disgust and indignation of the self righteous ones. Jesus knew the biggest problems in his people was not adultery.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 7:57:44 GMT -5
It sure is the biggest mixup you have ever seen. As I said earlier it depends a bit on how much you put in the white envelope that you give to Workers as they leave after a visit. If you make that a brown paper bag full, you will never have sanctions put on you. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqs4EbU02As
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Post by iam on Apr 21, 2020 8:03:01 GMT -5
It sure is the biggest mixup you have ever seen. As I said earlier it depends a bit on how much you put in the white envelope that you give to Workers as they leave after a visit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqs4EbU02AsI’ve actually tested that, redback, and found it to be true
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 8:22:40 GMT -5
Iam, they probably copied that from the Catholic Church, you can buy absolution. WI did pinch a few ideas from the Catholics, Masons, Faith Mission, and anybody he could think of.
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 21, 2020 9:13:14 GMT -5
So if it is not ok for a divorced professing man or woman to speak in a meeting, how is it ok that they sit and listen to a divorced man or woman preach at them from the platform? It it my understanding that divorce is accepted, but that remarriage is controversial. It is accepted in some areas and not in others. From my upcoming book, Preserving the Truth: 1938: Senior Workers Meeting about Divorce and Remarriage. An international Senior Workers meeting was held in July 1938, at West Hanney, England. Present were sixteen of the most Senior Overseers in the world. The manifests of ships traveling to England in 1938 reveal the following ten Workers' names who their professions as minister or evangelist. In alphabetical order by surname, they were John "Jack" Carroll, Robert Chambers, John Doak, Alex Dougal, John Hardie, John "Jack" Jackson, Samuel Jones, Hugh Matthews, Alexander Pearce, and George Walker. Some other Overseers who were likely present at the meeting, but for whom no travel arrangements were located, were Joe Twamley (Scotland), Wilson Reid (Ireland), Willie Gill (England), James Jardine (Europe), and Sid Maynard (India). No doubt, these men would have been speakers at the upcoming Oxfordshire, England and other conventions. Future divorce and remarriage situations were considered at this meeting and a new ruling was enacted. It provided that Friends who divorced and remarried after they professed could attend but would not be permitted to participate in Fellowship Meetings or communion. Those who were divorced and remarried before they professed would not be required to separate and would be allowed full privileges of fellowship. The U.S. West Coast and Canadian provinces still uphold the 1938 divorce and remarriage decision (as of 2020). In the 1970s, on the Eastern side of the Rocky Mountain Divide, the Overseer of the state of Colorado initiated a new, unusual policy. Leslie White began allowing remarried couples to follow their personal convictions, i.e. the decision to participate was left entirely up to the couple. Some divorced and remarried couples elected to move to Colorado specifically because of the tolerance, compassion, and freedom found in that state regarding their marital status. Gradually, the other Eastern states followed suit. Divorce. 2x2s are discouraged from divorcing, but when it occurs, it is generally accepted, provided the divorcee remains single and celibate. After the death of their ex-spouse, they are free to remarry. Remarriage. Worldwide, Workers are divided into two camps regarding the interpretation of Scripture and treatment of remarriage after divorce by 2x2s. In both East and West North America, if the divorce and remarriage took place prior to converting to 2x2ism, they are allowed full participation. In the West, as well as in the nations under its influence or authority, the Workers believe and teach that remarriage after divorce is a sin of commission and is considered "living in adultery." The divorced and remarried 2x2 couples in the West are not allowed to participate in Fellowship Meetings, to be Elders, or take communion. In Western North America, some divorced and remarried couples have been advised that unless they separate from their second spouse, they forfeit their opportunity to enter Heaven. Families have been cruelly separated due to the pressure of Workers who strongly believe this and stress that remarried couples have little to no chance of eternal salvation without separating. Some have been allowed to remain "separate" under the same roof. In some cases, they have been urged to leave their second marriage and remarry their original spouse, although the Old Testament labels this practice "an abomination" (Deut. 24:1-4 KJV). Depending on the conviction of their Overseer, some Workers have refused to spend the night in a divorced and remarried couples' home or accept their donations. Around 2000, Walter Burkinshaw, Overseer of British Columbia, Canada, reportedly banned two divorced couples who had remarried from even attending Fellowship Meetings, i.e. they were excommunicated. However, the Workers in Eastern U.S. and countries under their authority believe in and apply a merciful policy, and most divorced and remarried couples are allowed full participation. It is also permissible for divorcees to remarry in some states, such as Colorado, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, and others.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 9:33:17 GMT -5
we've had two men leave their second wives until the first wife dies its happened for the one but not the other yet....i admire their commitment for doing that....
we have one couple whom are remarried to an outsider who hadn't professed and when they did profess the outsider was allowed to take part but not the insider....
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Post by nathan on Apr 21, 2020 10:30:43 GMT -5
haha... What are you saying here? I don't understand your down under language... Do you believe those who read about the 2x2s know as much about it as those who have belonged to the group? That is what redback is saying. As he also said you're mixing the old with the new when you want. The ancient is old, the internet is new. You claim to be a worker and preaching the gospel on the internet but at the same time are not doing what you claim those who preach the gospel should do. You're a fake preacher / worker according to you. No, I given you the Ancient teachings of Jesus and those who follow His New Testament teachings through the centuries until NOW! for over 20 years on TMB or similar boards to it. There are different ways, methods to reach the mass NOT just from hearing the gospel from the workers. We know MANY of 2x2s have come to Christ through the friends ministry, that is witnessing or telling people for weeks, months, or sometimes years about Jesus before they came or heard the workers gospel meetings. Many of them already made the choice of serving God and Jesus in their hearts already and the workers had only small part in it by testing the meetings for them to Stand up!
I don't claim to be the Internet worker that was given to me by an ex-worker on here 20 yrs ago.
You are now comparing other church ministers with the workers when it suits you by saying aren't some of them divorced? No I don't know any who are divorced or any church I have attended who would accept a divorced person into ministry. I know of divorce men are church elders, they were my Sunday morning church elders for over 40 years. They are truly amazing elders, I stayed in their home when I came from Guam for over a year. There are divorce pastors, gay priests, lesbians ministers out there among the 40 plus Protestant denominations.
Luke 22 is about more than swords. It's about saying that the instructions in Matthew 10 no longer apply as he was leaving them. It speaks about taking scrip, purse and sword. Like I said you take Luke 22 and Mathew 10 out of context and misinterpretation about Jesus had told them TWO swords are enough don't take anymore! because there would be NO rebellion against Rome! that was the instruction against those who carried swords among them.
You're one mixed up dude, makes me think of the verses how you can't mix old wine with new. You take what you want from anywhere that suits. You even promote those you claim are false preachers when it suits. I explained these things to you but you don't LIKE it because it shows you are mistaken with your interpretation and take verses out of context.
Of course people would call someone who claims to be Jesus from venus crazy because that is not the Jesus in the Bible but a false Jesus. Apparently Jesus will he easy to recognize if and when he comes. No confusing him as some alien from venus. Jesus/God said he came down from heaven; He is NOT from this planet, even the angels came from heaven or the same place also. What do you call those who came from another place and planet beside earth? They are called E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial - Wikipedia
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Post by iam on Apr 21, 2020 10:36:11 GMT -5
Bet there were a lot of workers were glad they weren’t in on the 16 or however many made up those rules. Dodged that bullet!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 13:34:35 GMT -5
It seems that some Overseers were not given the rule book with the rules we don't have. Evan Jones was one who obviously hadn't read it when he made this statement,
Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith. However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them.
Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Statement taken and signature witnessed to me at Surry Hills at 1.27 pm on the 29th of November, 1994.
Of course it was always OK to tell a porky, when in a tight situation. Note the bit, "or anything else for that matter."
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 21, 2020 13:38:17 GMT -5
Watch out Curly, I wasn't game. Haha, it's because I "don't understand"
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Post by fixit on Apr 21, 2020 14:12:38 GMT -5
In my opinion, in Matthew 10, Jesus is dealing with a short term commission where expedience was a key issue. In Luke 22 he is dealing with an indefinite commission and this is why Matt 10 was superceded by Luke 22. However, Luke 22 has itself been superceded by Nate 1. That's the order of things. Simple. Very easy to understand. No doubt Nate 2 will be different, depending on Nathan's favourite conspiracy theory or science fiction work at the time.
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Post by fixit on Apr 21, 2020 14:21:01 GMT -5
It seems that some Overseers were not given the rule book with the rules we don't have. Evan Jones was one who obviously hadn't read it when he made this statement, Our organisation has no restrictions on music, dancing, television, sport, food or anything else for that matter. We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith. However a member of our faith would not be interested in Music, Television or the like, as life is complete without them. Signed_______________ John Evan Jones Statement taken and signature witnessed to me at Surry Hills at 1.27 pm on the 29th of November, 1994. Of course it was always OK to tell a porky, when in a tight situation. Note the bit, "or anything else for that matter." Dale Shultz seemed to think differently... ...it does remain the right thing to respect that decision because of where it has come from and to work with it no matter what our own thoughts might be on the subject. This is a very practical area where we can exercise the teaching of 11 Corinthians 10:5, "- bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." We may think that we are "obeying men" and not "obeying Christ" when we submit to something that seems wrong to our own thinking. However, the scriptures teach so much about submission e.g. to the government of the land, wives to husbands, children to parents, the Lord's people to the ministry, etc. That teaching doesn't just apply when the governments, husbands, parents or workers are 100% on the right track, but it applies in a very comprehensive way. We also know that a point could be reached in these different relationships in which submission is generally expected where, because of some deep conviction before God, we would feel that we could not submit to something that is being asked of us.
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Post by Grant on Apr 21, 2020 15:41:21 GMT -5
Nathan, you are just grasping at straws and making things up as you go. Nothing in your post above to me is correct. It's all made up.
You need to start talking fact instead of creating what you want when it suits.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 15:42:34 GMT -5
Fixit my 80 year old brain is getting a bit foggy. Could you interperate that for me in words I am able to understand. Don't like the bit about Wives submitting to Husbands.
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Post by Grant on Apr 21, 2020 15:44:49 GMT -5
Dale means submit to the workers no matter what because by submitting to them you're submitting to God.
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Post by fixit on Apr 21, 2020 16:16:32 GMT -5
Dale means submit to the workers no matter what because by submitting to them you're submitting to God. That seems to be what Dale is saying. Yet Evan seemed to be saying the opposite: We do not exercise any authority over an individuals faith.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 16:41:27 GMT -5
Thanks Enuf and Fixit. It is a bit confusing when they give out different messages.
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